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Author Topic: Groovymame and G-sync monitor  (Read 3869 times)

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Torkyo

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Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« on: September 06, 2019, 06:56:29 pm »
Hello, I got an AOC AGON AG251FG G-Sync monitor @240Hz.
Does Grovymame support the g-sync function?
I know that besides CRT, groovymame supports very well also LCD monitor. I'm wondering if also benefits by g-sync capability.

thanks

Arbee

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 10:04:19 am »
Stock MAMEdev.org MAME works perfectly with GSync and Freesync monitors.  It's *the* best way to run MAME tear-free.

donluca

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 12:23:35 pm »
One thing I've always wondered: did arcade boards manage to get a stable sync or did it vary slightly during gameplay?

I remember a discussion quite some years ago where someone found out that certain arcade boards, although reporting vsync of, let's say, 60hz, weren't steady and did vary from, like, 59,8 to 60,2.

I'm not sure if this behavior is somewhat being emulated or if it's possible to emulate at all due to the "randomness" of it.
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2019, 01:26:35 pm »
I've skipped trying FreeSync and G-Sync because I have a LCDs fully compatible with Emudrivers, so I get perfect sync and no tearing anyway (although at an additional CPU time cost compared to the commercial variable refresh solutions, of course, since I also use frame_delay) but I could read many people around who own a proper commercial variable refresh setup...complaining, no matter which build they use.

My uneducted understanding is that you basically need to activate Free/Gsync on both your GPU and compatible monitor, then turn all of MAME's sync options off, then start playing and that should work perfect.

What you read around though is people saying they can't manage to get it right, they either get wrong refresh speeds, or tearing, or no tearing but intermittent frame hiccups.
So some intervene telling them they need vsync (which option? they don't tell) and that sounds counter-intuitive.

Dunno, my hardware and Groovy/Emudriver made acquiring a Free/Gsync monitor unnecessary, anyway maybe some day I'll get one and experience commercial variable refresh myself, using whatever build.



Calamity

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2019, 02:00:57 pm »
My uneducted understanding is that you basically need to activate Free/Gsync on both your GPU and compatible monitor, then turn all of MAME's sync options off, then start playing and that should work perfect.

Yes.

Quote
What you read around though is people saying they can't manage to get it right, they either get wrong refresh speeds, or tearing, or no tearing but intermittent frame hiccups.
So some intervene telling them they need vsync (which option? they don't tell) and that sounds counter-intuitive.

In my experience with Freesync, things didn't work right out of the box. It was for a specific reason.

Freesync (and G-sync) only work within a specific refresh range. The upper limit of this range is always a slightly lower value than your current desktop refresh.

If your monitor is set at 60 Hz, for games that run close to 60 Hz (e.g. 59.63 or 60.00) or above 60 Hz (e.g. 60.606), Freesync will be disabled, and you'll get tearing. Games with lower refresh rate (e.g. 55 Hz) will run smooth, since Freesync will keep enabled.

Many Freesync monitors are 144 Hz these days so that shouldn't be a problem, but if you need a 4K monitor for reasons other than emulation, chances are you'll be stuck at 60 Hz. This is a problem for MAME since so many arcade titles will hit the Freesync upper boundary.

The trick that worked for me (I read it in some place) was to create a custom resolution of 61 Hz, which the monitor still admits, then set the desktop to use it instead of its default 60 Hz mode. Once you do that, Freesync keeps enabled for all games up tp 60.606 Hz.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 02:27:17 pm »
Oh so it's that simple...

What awful design decision coming from AMD and nVidia though.

Doesn't setting your desktop to 61Hz cause any issues for other applications? and do all monitors and drivers commonly even let people do that ?

Otherwise I would assume it's safer to just get a Full-HD or WQHD rated for at minimum 40~75Hz (without switching between two separate ranges as I think it happend before)

Trnzaddict

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2019, 07:32:26 pm »
I don’t know why users are complaining they still can’t get perfect scrolling with Gsync...Freesync I can’t comment on but I have never had one stutter on my Gsync monitor since I bought it. Disable all sync correcting options and that’s it....done.

The only game that made me question if there may be an issue was Aliens as the background scrolling in that game is jumpy but after YouTubing an Aliens PCB play through it seems to be that way on real hardware too. Sucks as the game is awesome.

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 04:47:29 am »
Well for the reason Calamity mentioned for instance ? I don't think a lot of people are aware of that and workarounds they'd eventually need.

And I've been wondering if frontend users might have more trouble, like RetroArch which bypasses pretty much every video and sound controls emulators produce needs a syncrefresh-like option and a couple other things, which sounds really dodgy, probably better to use standalone emus.


@Calamity: so with Groovy by oomek's tests you basically get zero lag with Free/Gsync, that means you don't need frame_delay at all, right ?
Or shorter question: MAME vs. Groovy equal in that area ?

Calamity

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2019, 05:50:24 am »
@Calamity: so with Groovy by oomek's tests you basically get zero lag with Free/Gsync, that means you don't need frame_delay at all, right ?
Or shorter question: MAME vs. Groovy equal in that area ?

No need for frame delay with Freesync/G-sync. Since vblank is sent right after presenting a new frame there's no delay.

Based on Oomek's results, MAME still lags a whole frame as compared to Groovy with a Freesync/no-frame_delay configuration, for both BGFX and DirectX backends.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Scooby

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2019, 03:42:03 pm »
Hi guys! Sorry for being a little off topic. But I wonder if nowadays with all the freesync / G-Sync stuff available, are there any good 4K (glossy display, high brightness, HDR) LCD monitors that come close to the feeling of a good old CRT 15kHz monitor? Maybe with a good scanline emulation, CRTs might become obsolete one day.😉

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Groovymame and G-sync monitor
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 04:02:05 pm »
Stop dreaming, not quite and not yet, CRT tech still rules.

LCD panel pixel response times and motion resolution don't cut it.
Even if they used an OLED it would need to have something more than just measly variable refresh, something like much higher native refresh to allow a new kind of VRR combined and synced with adaptive high-rate strobing or rolling scan matching the source.
That, is not available yet, only partially or experimental, and likely won't be together in a single display before maaaaany years.

But if you want what will likely be the best LCD of 2020, prepare your wallet for the upcoming ASUS ProArt PA32UCG.  :)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 04:03:46 pm by schmerzkaufen »