Game of ---smurfing--- Thrones!

[Arroyo]

  Episode 3 was billed as the longest episode, so the final 3 should fall in between somewhere and all be over an hour.

IMDB yo:

[nitrogen_widget]

I'm not a fan but all my friends are so I watch so I can be part of the convo but I've liked watching it.
my take on the dark scenes was it was atmosphere to try and convey just how the defenders felt.
IN the dark not knowing what was going on.
the scenes that were clear were really all that mattered.

though how most of the main characters lived was a little "huh?".

The ending was anti-climatic and didn't see it coming until the witch said what she said (no spoilers).
I do love the way they keep putting main characters into the "this is it! they bite the big one" then they survive.
That's what it's come down to for me.
Who is going to die next.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not a fan but all my friends are so I watch so I can be part of the convo but I've liked watching it.
my take on the dark scenes was it was atmosphere to try and convey just how the defenders felt.
IN the dark not knowing what was going on.
the scenes that were clear were really all that mattered.

Exactly.  It was supposed to be like if a camera crew was in the middle of a warzone filming... you were getting the fighters perspective.  Btw the payoff I was talking about earlier was the knight king biting the big one at the hands of Arya and the dagger.  They've been foreshadowing that damn thing for 5 years now..... longer if you count the red woman's prediction. 

I think people are going to be surprised how many ultimately survive the show.  From a narrative perspective there aren't many left that absolutely need to die and I've got the feeling they are going to give us as happy an ending that is possible on this blood soaked show.  So many survived because poetically they are needed for interactions with Cerci in the final battle.

[BadMouth]

didn't see it coming until the witch said what she said (no spoilers).

That was the only part that bothered me.  Fans of this show didn't need the recap for Arya.
I'd rather that pregame coaching session not have happened.  It was like a jackass in the theater telling you what was going to happen just before it happens. 
Arya looking death himself in the face and saying "Not today" would have been the payoff I was waiting for, but they blew it by using the line 5 minutes earlier.

(it's been long enough to stop using spoiler tags)

[Malenko]

I didnt mind Arya's stealth session. Typical tricks that would work on people wouldnt work on well......zombies. I get that. Throwing the book was kinda dumb. Would have been cooler if she dispatched them without alerting the others Assassin's Creed style. Then maybe one of the heads falls off a table and onto the floor and she has to run like she did.

I had an issue with Theon's death as well, it was a waste. Full circle redemption from cowardice to bravery for nothing. Everyone knew he'd charge and die. If he had charged, got killed, and Arya immediately jumped down and got caught in the NK's hand it wouldn't have been so pointless. Ya know, like he was enough of a distraction that she used it for an opening.  And yes, if she stared death in the eyes and said not today as she did her little dagger move it would have been a much better payoff. Lucky for us it wasn't as dark and full of artistic vision snow.

So we betting on whats going to happen?   I feel like its super obvious they are trying to goad us into thinking that Jamie is gonna cut down Cersi or he wont be able to do it and Brienne will do it and become the Queenslayer.   Arya's arc is done, she has no one left to avenge or punish. Sansa is as useful as tits on a bull. No idea what direction they are taking with Jon and Dany; He's the rightful King and I dont think he wants to marry his aunt. Maybe she takes the throne and Jon goes back to the North. The Hound vs the Mountain can finally happen and will hopefully be less anticlimactic than the whole Night King resolution. Im not really sure what other characters have any skin in the game other than maybe Yara killing her uncle that rocks the Lemmy.  Im sure Tyrion will get to do something cool, Dinklage has been a highlight of the show since the start. Oh maybe Brianne will get with Jamie and break the Tormund's heart. That'd be funny.

I dont see how the battle for Kings Landing can be that great with there still being 1 dragon that can just do a fly by and torch the whole fleet of mercs. The worlds greatest Javelin thrower is dead so the dragon should be safe. And its not dumb enough to just stay on the ground and get stabbed to death.

Last thing about the "artistic vision"......... I get what they were going for. I understand why they did it. It was horrible to watch and was not enjoyable television.

[Arroyo]

My monies on Dany taking the big fall, she has the makings of a martyr.  Jon takes the throne reluctantly, and yeah I bet Brienne takes down Cersei.

[Howard_Casto]

Theon was destined to die the minute he betrayed the Starks so many seasons ago.  The only way he could truly be redeemed was to die defending the starks, which he did.  If he could give his brother 30 more seconds of life by charging, that's what he was going to do.  He'd been a coward in every battle thus far, but he stared death in the face and tried to kick his ass.  Full redemption, arc completed.  Could they have done it in the next battle?  Sure, but then they wouldn't have had a significant character die during this battle and it made more sense to have him die now than someone like the Lannisters whom need to die (if they die) at the hands of Cerci.  They are trying very hard to give us a satisfying end and that means giving the characters that are going to die a fitting death. 

See what I like about GOT is that they do proper story telling.  Something that has become a standard in modern television is the idea that anyone can die at any moment and that's simply not true.  If it were reality that would certainly be true, but you are telling a story.  That means people have to die to progress the narrative.  I mean you can kill off a bunch of people for no reason and it'll certainly shock your audience, but after that wears off the same audience will find the deaths unsatisfying.  Basically don't be like the walking dead.  The irony of that is TWD killed off a bunch of their main cast only to have half of the remaining cast quit the next season, so they are screwed atm. 

In a perfect world Tyrion would get the throne in the end... he's the only one who's been more or less moral throughout the show... at least when it comes doing what's best for the kingdom.  John is probably destined to die.  Anyone who gets a Christ resurrection tends to die or "go away" when the fighting is done.  I would say that Danny would sit on the throne, but something about that isn't right.... probably the fact that she didn't even set foot in Westeros until last season.  Jamie and Cerci are going to kill each other.  Probably a similar fate for the hound and the mountain.  I just don't see the show runners being brave enough to let Tyrion be the last man standing.  Most likely Danny will get it after John dying and she'll let Sansa rule the north independently out of respect for him. 

[wp34]

I kept hoping Ned Stark would wake up in the crypt and start killing people.  That would have been some next-level fan service.

[wp34]

Theon was destined to die the minute he betrayed the Starks so many seasons ago.  The only way he could truly be redeemed was to die defending the starks, which he did.  If he could give his brother 30 more seconds of life by charging, that's what he was going to do.  He'd been a coward in every battle thus far, but he stared death in the face and tried to kick his ass.  Full redemption, arc completed.  Could they have done it in the next battle?  Sure, but then they wouldn't have had a significant character die during this battle and it made more sense to have him die now than someone like the Lannisters whom need to die (if they die) at the hands of Cerci.  They are trying very hard to give us a satisfying end and that means giving the characters that are going to die a fitting death. 

See what I like about GOT is that they do proper story telling.  Something that has become a standard in modern television is the idea that anyone can die at any moment and that's simply not true.  If it were reality that would certainly be true, but you are telling a story.  That means people have to die to progress the narrative.  I mean you can kill off a bunch of people for no reason and it'll certainly shock your audience, but after that wears off the same audience will find the deaths unsatisfying.  Basically don't be like the walking dead.  The irony of that is TWD killed off a bunch of their main cast only to have half of the remaining cast quit the next season, so they are screwed atm. 

In a perfect world Tyrion would get the throne in the end... he's the only one who's been more or less moral throughout the show... at least when it comes doing what's best for the kingdom.  John is probably destined to die.  Anyone who gets a Christ resurrection tends to die or "go away" when the fighting is done.  I would say that Danny would sit on the throne, but something about that isn't right.... probably the fact that she didn't even set foot in Westeros until last season.  Jamie and Cerci are going to kill each other.  Probably a similar fate for the hound and the mountain.  I just don't see the show runners being brave enough to let Tyrion be the last man standing.  Most likely Danny will get it after John dying and she'll let Sansa rule the north independently out of respect for him.

Tyrion is who I'm rooting for as well.  Seems like they have been setting him up for a major redemption since last season.  He's my favorite character from the books.

I agree something doesn't quite feel right about Dani getting the throne and/or Jon living.

[BadMouth]

The next foreshadowing to play out will be:
"remember....if anyone ever hires you to kill me, I'll double their price"
The question is whether it applies to only Bronn or the whole golden company.

I guess in the next episode we will find out if Dany has won Sansa over or not.
There are still plenty of twists possible.  Tyrion's "mistakes" could be a plan on his part.  (they never showed the actual conversation between him and Cersei)
They've kept Varys under the radar so far this season, so there could be a reveal coming for him.

[wp34]

The next foreshadowing to play out will be:
"remember....if anyone ever hires you to kill me, I'll double their price"
The question is whether it applies to only Bronn or the whole golden company.

Tyrion does mention that every time he sees Bronn.  Would be a cool twist.  I love Bronn's character too.

[Howard_Casto]

I figure Varys is going to be the hand when all is said and done.  He would never want to be on the throne....too much attention that can get him killed. 

[Gilrock]

I'm still waiting till I can pay for just one month of HBO and watch the whole season.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Malenko]

Theon was destined to die the minute he betrayed the Starks so many seasons ago.  The only way he could truly be redeemed was to die defending the starks, which he did.  If he could give his brother 30 more seconds of life by charging, that's what he was going to do.

We dont disagree on any of this. Arya using that choice for an opening makes more sense than waiting for him to kill Theon , then waiting for BrandFlakes and Old Blue Eyes to have a staring contest for a bit, then finally trying to kill him.

Everything just feels a little ham fisted right now. I'm pot committed at this point so no matter how dumb and anti climactic the last 3 episodes are, I'll watch em.

[nitrogen_widget]

I'm still waiting till I can pay for just one month of HBO and watch the whole season.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I'm using the HBO GO app through my amazon prime on fire stick.
first 7 days free I think then $15 month.

[nitrogen_widget]

Theon was destined to die the minute he betrayed the Starks so many seasons ago.  The only way he could truly be redeemed was to die defending the starks, which he did.  If he could give his brother 30 more seconds of life by charging, that's what he was going to do.  He'd been a coward in every battle thus far, but he stared death in the face and tried to kick his ass.  Full redemption, arc completed. 

He has been a coward ever since he had his twig and berries lopped off.

[Howard_Casto]

Theon was destined to die the minute he betrayed the Starks so many seasons ago.  The only way he could truly be redeemed was to die defending the starks, which he did.  If he could give his brother 30 more seconds of life by charging, that's what he was going to do.

We dont disagree on any of this. Arya using that choice for an opening makes more sense than waiting for him to kill Theon , then waiting for BrandFlakes and Old Blue Eyes to have a staring contest for a bit, then finally trying to kill him.

Everything just feels a little ham fisted right now. I'm pot committed at this point so no matter how dumb and anti climactic the last 3 episodes are, I'll watch em.

Well we didn't see what happened from her perspective.  It very well could be that she just got there when she did her batman leap of death.  Lots of zombies  and a frikkin berserker zombie dragon after all. 

I'm excited about the last few eps, but I'm more interested to see how much of a train wreck the spin offs are going to be.  HBO put it's hopes on west world to be their next killer show and while it's doing well it doesn't seem to be GOT level's of popular.  They are going to push the spinoffs HARD.  Also excited to see Deadwood return, even for a belated half-assed movie.  It's the show that started it all after all. 

[javeryh]

Thoughts on episode 4?  I thought it was good character interactions for the most part even though it felt really rushed and characters were just appearing all over Westeros for the sake of the plot.

[wp34]

Thoughts on episode 4?  I thought it was good character interactions for the most part even though it felt really rushed and characters were just appearing all over Westeros for the sake of the plot.

It was an odd episode.  I can't really say I disliked it but it did not do a lot for me.  The characters seem to be making decisions more inline with moving the plot where it needs to go versus how you would expect.  Dani in particular is making uncharacteristically bad strategic decisions. 

I agree it felt a little rushed.  Really the last two seasons have felt rushed but I'm not sure that could be avoided given the number of episodes they gave themselves to finished.

[Mike A]

I don't understand how people keep saying the plot is rushed and characters are just moving the plot along and in the next sentence say hey good show. After the show outpaced the books it totally sucks. It is badly written garbage.

[javeryh]

I don't understand how people keep saying the plot is rushed and characters are just moving the plot along and in the next sentence say hey good show. After the show outpaced the books it totally sucks. It is badly written garbage.

I still really enjoy it even though the last 2 seasons haven’t been as good as the rest of the show.  I’m not that critical and I’m easily entertained plus there aren’t a lot of shows like this where I’m really into the subject matter.

[Mike A]

I am normally not that critical of television shows either. I like some really stupid stuff. Ravens that can fly hypersonic speeds and sailing fleets that can teleport anywhere in the world just broke the show for me.

[javeryh]

I am normally not that critical of television shows either. I like some really stupid stuff. Ravens that can fly hypersonic speeds and sailing fleets that can teleport anywhere in the world just broke the show for me.

yeah - I get it.  They are doing a pretty bad job with traveling all over the place.  I can suspend disbelief for the Raven mail system but Denerys just appearing in King's Landing in a nanosecond goes against everything the show has set up over the years.

[Howard_Casto]

I liked the episode over all but that ending was ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.  I don't know a lot about the military but I'm pretty sure they'd send a scout ship waaaaay ahead of the fleet first to do some recon and make sure everything is alright.  Plus that dragon was pretty high up in the air.  There's no way in hell that a half dozen ships that large just snuck up on them.  I just praised the show for not doing things for sheer shock value and then they turn around and pull a walking dead.  The dragon had to die to add some tension for the final battle, I get that, but they could have just ran into the fleet and had a normal battle where he ultimately dies because he's already wounded and can't fly well.  Would have made far more sense. 

I've got a bad feeling that Aryra might bite the big one.  She and the Hound are obviously going to go get the Mountain and Cerci.  I find it doubtful that they'll let her kill both the big bads in the show even though she is absolutely capable of it.  I think Jamie will still ultimately kill her.  He's had too much of an arc over the show to just go back and be her lap dog again. 

[Jimbo]

It's looking likely that Daenerys is becoming the Mad Queen and will follow in her Father's footsteps.....

[wp34]

I liked the episode over all but that ending was ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.  I don't know a lot about the military but I'm pretty sure they'd send a scout ship waaaaay ahead of the fleet first to do some recon and make sure everything is alright.  Plus that dragon was pretty high up in the air.  There's no way in hell that a half dozen ships that large just snuck up on them.  I just praised the show for not doing things for sheer shock value and then they turn around and pull a walking dead.  The dragon had to die to add some tension for the final battle, I get that, but they could have just ran into the fleet and had a normal battle where he ultimately dies because he's already wounded and can't fly well.  Would have made far more sense. 

That bothered me as well.  You could almost see the ambush coming the way they were lackadaisically flying/sailing back to Dragonstone.  I get they needed to lose the dragon but it seemed a bit unrealistic the way it went down.

[javeryh]

That bothered me as well.  You could almost see the ambush coming the way they were lackadaisically flying/sailing back to Dragonstone.  I get they needed to lose the dragon but it seemed a bit unrealistic the way it went down.

Also, all she had to do was circle around to the back of the fleet to take them all out.  The giant crossbows were on the front of each ship and they were all pointing in the same direction.

[wp34]

That bothered me as well.  You could almost see the ambush coming the way they were lackadaisically flying/sailing back to Dragonstone.  I get they needed to lose the dragon but it seemed a bit unrealistic the way it went down.

Also, all she had to do was circle around to the back of the fleet to take them all out.  The giant crossbows were on the front of each ship and they were all pointing in the same direction.

Great point. That would have been awesome to see too.

[javeryh]

I also didn't like that Messandei got captured - it's ridiculous given the context.  She would have died in the water or made it ashore with everyone else.  How did they even know to grab her?  All it did was set up the scene on the top of the wall.  Pure plot contrivance.

[wp34]

I also didn't like that Messandei got captured - it's ridiculous given the context.  She would have died in the water or made it ashore with everyone else.  How did they even know to grab her?  All it did was set up the scene on the top of the wall.  Pure plot contrivance.

Yeah was she absolutely the only one they captured? 

[Osirus23]

I don't understand how people keep saying the plot is rushed and characters are just moving the plot along and in the next sentence say hey good show. After the show outpaced the books it totally sucks. It is badly written garbage.

Well it's what one should expect. They went from adaptations which, all things considered, were generally faithful to the source material written by an established fantasy author to fanfiction written by trashy TV writers.

[opt2not]

Ugh, watched the latest last night.  The ending of this show is going to be such a let down, if this is the bar they're hitting with this final season.

All the events in this episode was such contrived, lightly thought-out pandering to a weak plot that the writers are just phoning it in at this point.   The fact you can hide an entire sea fleet behind rocks, ergo behind line of sight of a dragon flying 1000's of feet up in the air, from a vertical vantage point... then get bullseye'd by a harpoon. What, why, huh??
Then Daenerys not flying behind the fleet and burning the heck out of the ships is just ridiculous.  The harpoon guns were mounted on the bow of the ships!

Messandei getting nabbed was just dumb. Wasn't she on the exact same ship as Grey Worm? I get that everyone got dumped into the sea, but how was she picked out of the crowd and not the others?
But hey, like I mentioned earlier, the writers are now just choosing to play it safe and kill off non-primary characters.

Weak writing all around. At this point I just want to see it end, and put allow it to be put out of it's misery.

[Mike A]

Euron's fleet can teleport. He may as well have cloaking devices too. I am surprised he didn't blast a dragon out of the sky by firing a phaser blast from his dong.

[Osirus23]

This was just sent to me:

[opt2not]

https://streamable.com/tanow

[harveybirdman]

All I'm sayin is you better learn to like Jamie Lanister, cause if you don't the ending probably going to suck. 

My bet is for everyone to be dead except Jamie and the bald enuch Advisor.... Outside shot of Jamie actually killing Cersei.


That's how I see it ending.

[Howard_Casto]

I'd pick one of the dead characters resurrecting and taking the throne before Jamie.

[javeryh]

*sigh*

[Malenko]

My bet is for everyone to be dead except Jamie and the bald enuch Advisor.... Outside shot of Jamie actually killing Cersei.

Well, you were super wrong :p


This whole season has been pretty bad. The increased run times don't seem to matter, an extra 20 minutes of panoramas dont really add anything. The magic Scorpions/Ballistas lost their magic.   If you didn't see the dragon attack going the way it did you haven't picked up on how bad and obvious the writing is this season.  1 episode arc to the mad queen was weak AF. Killing the second dragon made even less sense from the previous episode since they buffed the main one to God status this week.

I can't wait until they wrap this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- show up.

[Howard_Casto]

It hasn't been a 1 episode arc, it's been an 8 season arc...she's always been the poorest written character on the show and has shown time and time again to have the emotional maturity of a particularly moody toddler.  That being said, I thought the whole point of dropping these little hints here and there was so that you'd think she'd turn mad only for her not to.. that would have been intelligent writing.  This was just dumb.  Likewise with Jamie and Cerci.  Jamie had an arc of redemption... the only way those end is either dying a heroic death or a good ending.  I'll admit that I actually felt sorry for them in that final scene, but I think that was just due to the caliber of acting.  Ditto for the Jamie x Tyrion exchange. 

Getting back to Danny, I guess she and her dragon are indestructible when they are pissed off.  That's fine I guess, but then why didn't she get pissed off and destroy the iron fleet straight away in the last episode so that her bff didn't get captured and murdered, essentially starting this whole rampage in the first place?  Oh yeah, because that would have ruined their paper thin plot.  Also how did she keep from burning her own men?  Also, if she could somehow keep from killing her own men, how come Arya almost bites the big one 20 times?  Was she trying to kill her?  Yeah this was all spectacle no plot. 

That being said Hound vs Mountain was pretty good.  I particularly liked when the Mountain smashed that creepy ex miester's head in.  It leaved a lot of un-answered questions though, namely wtf did they do to the mountain to make him indestructible.   What few Arya x Hound scenes we got were pure gold.  I think the old "O'Brien must suffer" meme from ds9 has to be changed to "Arya must suffer" now.  That poor girl never catches a break. 

I think the biggest problem I have with the episode though is this shortened season length.  Ok we've got an evil person on the throne again... now what?  We've got about an hour and 20 minutes left so even if they manage to defeat her there isn't going to be any time left to actually decompress and see some closure for all of these characters.  The other option is to just leave her on the throne, but then they've basically pulled a "to be continued" in preparation for some terrible spin-off.  I mean how are they even going to be able to defeat her with puff the magic dragon on her side?  I'm guessing via more terrible plot.