Game of ---smurfing--- Thrones!

[Howard_Casto]

I don't talk about this show because it isn't nearly as fun to talk about a show that's consistently good and on point, but damn.  I think Lord of the Rings has officially been de-throned as having the best cinematic battles ever filmed.  I don't talk about it because of spoilers, but everyone needs to watch this.  I even think people that gave the show a pass should watch all of those previous seasons just so they can watch this episode. 

[leapinlew]

So, no problem with the overt dark scenes, shakey can, and general hard to tell wtf was going on?

I liked it, but a few times it pulled a little too much battlestar galactica and saving private ryan.

[Howard_Casto]

At first I was confused until about 15 min in when it was made obvious that it was an artistic decision.  After that I sit back, relaxed and enjoyed the ride knowing that anything important I'll be able to see and anything confusing is supposed to be confusing.  Expendable characters, even expendable main characters were killed and the ones that should stay alive did.  The outcome was perfect from a narrative standpoint.

I'm just unsure what they are going to do with the remaining three episodes.  The "final war" is going to be a letdown... nobody frikkin cares about Cersi anymore.

[SlammedNiss]

Now, with that said, there is actually a good reason why. Back in it's heyday, I binge-watched every episode of Breaking Bad up to the start of the 5th season in just a couple of weeks. Then, I had to wait each damn week for a new episode to drop. I hated it. So, on shows with such a huge following such as GoT, I typically wait until the end (or close to it) then I will start it up. Just finished Cobra Kai season 2 this afternoon, so I imagine GoT will be making it's way to the front real soon.

[pbj]

I was at a conference today, they were going to do a showing of the latest episode so long as no one was offended. The woman standing next to me loudly declared "I AM OFFENDED!" but they showed it anyway.    

[Malenko]

I felt like I was watching  a cam ripped torrent, even though I was watching the HBO broadcast in HD.

[JMB]

So, no problem with the overt dark scenes, shakey can, and general hard to tell wtf was going on?

This describes this episode perfectly. It was so dark it was very hard to tell what was going on half the time. I enjoyed it but it seemed a little anti-climatic after building this moment up since season 1

[schmerzkaufen]

Heven't watched ep3 yet, saving it for tonight.

Still, damn, GoT is like the One Piece of fantasy books/shows, the author's long forgot what story he wanted to tell, but the franchise's selling so they had to maintain production no matter what. 
I mean the book was a page-turner until Martin lost inspiration and couldn't write anymore. Similarily the show went boring and procedural-in disguise, or generic if you want, with it's predictable poorly patched-up plot and planted visualshock moments to keep the audience from yawning.
They should have hired Joel Surnow and Robert Cochran (24) instead...

[pbj]

The show needs more tiddies. Despite all the hype, the nudity was borderline tasteful in the couple of episodes I've seen.

[opt2not]

Ugh, i was very disappointed with this episode. The battles were so boring, hard to see, and in some cases ambiguous on who died or not.

Seriously, who the hell let them get away with that episode?

Spoilers:

Absolutely one of the worst bits of cinematography and editing I’ve seen outside of a knockoff of a Michael Bay film.

Impossible to follow anything because of how dark it was. No sense of where characters were in relation to each other.

But the greatest sin of all, it was boring. Even in a huge battle, narrative structure is essential. From the moment the Dolthraki charge failed (how boneheaded that was tactically?  The Two Towers did horsemen so much better, using them as a flank, at the moment of loss) the same note was played throughout the entire show. There was no rising and falling action, no narrative, and about what, three pages of dialogue?

Lots of stupid drawn-out slo-mo scenes...

Also, way to cheat the audience on Sansa actually doing something except waxing on about how the bravest thing "is to do nothing". Well, she did ---fudgesicle----all that episode. How did we not have her facing down the headless zombie corpse of her father with the dragon glass dagger Aria gave her? Totally missed opportunity for Sansa to be more likable, compared to as of late being a stone of a character with no depth that she's turned out to be.

And Aria was ridiculously inconsistent throughout.  First she's at her proper assassin form, kicking ass, taking zombie names. Pretty much fighting like Neo from the Matrix, then halfway through the episode she's cowering around the castle, in a lite-caloric stealth scene that was both cliche and didn't connect to anything she trained for.  Oh the old throwing an object to another part of the room misdirection is so played out. What happened to her infiltration training? Her ability to "disappear" into the shadows...then somehow she gets intimately close to the Night King without anyone seeing or hearing her, when they were all out in the open, with his 4 "Night Generals" (who turned out to be useless tits who did nothing but walk through the castle's gates).  This made no sense!

Also, called it about the Mormonts dying, but also I thought that Brianne, one of Dany’s dragons, and Greyworm were dead too (the dude basically gave the two weeks from retirement speech last episode. How is he still alive?).
Little Lady Mormont went out pretty good, but again it's the whole charging forward into danger while screaming tactic that they repeated throughout the episode. The dothraki did it, Mormont did it, Theon did it...

Weak episode. Worst battle in the series. And such a disappointment after last week’s episode.

Go back and watch “The Two Towers” and the Battle of Helms Deep to see just how bad this was. This episode didn't even light a candle to the Battle of Helms Deep.

[Malenko]

Sansa is one of the worst parts of the show. They pointed out how useless she was when she said she didnt know how to use a dagger.  It doesnt help that Sophie Turner isnt a good actress either.

[Howard_Casto]

Everything in the episode, including the confusion, the darkness and the inconsistencies were part of the artistic vision.  If you paid attention everything paid off and everything made sense.  If you didn't get it that's on you.

I can certainly understand people getting miffed about not being able to see anything in the beginning, but that was to heighten the viewers anxiety and judging by comments on the net of people complaining about it, it did just that.  And hour and a half of just a battle would be boring as hell if everything was shot with perfect clarity and everything was framed just so.  They used old spook house tricks to keep you invested in what would have otherwise been a boring slog.  There was no way to come even close to the 8 year buildup for this battle in a traditional narrative form, so they messed around with the audience's head to get a better emotional response for the end.  While I can certainly understand why some people wouldn't like that, it was well done.  Also Aria's actions make perfect sense if you were paying attention.  Check out hbo's episode recap on youtube and they walk you through it. 

Sophie Turner sucks and Sansa is kinda "meh" but that line about the dagger was a callback joke I believe. 

[Ginsu Victim]

We saw what we needed to see. Everything else was confusing on purpose.

Between Endgame and GoT this weekend, I'm exhausted!

10/10

[opt2not]

No, I get the "artistic" direction, it just needed to be better engineered.  And I'm not buying Aria's actions making perfect sense. It was discontinuous with her character, and leading up from her actions in the episode.  Cop-outs are cop-out. 

I paid attention, down to the micro detailed level...it just wasn't executed as well as it could have been.  I left that episode feeling cheaped out, and like I said, the other battles in the show were so much better than this (blackwater, battle of the ---daisies---...etc.), which is unfortunate given that those battles were all supposed to be a set-up to this mega battle we just saw.

Its quite clear where they ran out of book material and have been winging it ever since. What was once a story that subverted the fairy tales, and had characters that acted realistically, has become a story about playing it safe and playing for audience reactions. Undead giant stops his rampage to lift up little girl soldier to his eye? Main characters at the front line getting absolutely overwhelmed in one scene, and then show up in a later scene running back to Winterfell. But the biggest wasted moment for me is going out of your way to place every known Valyrian Steel Sword in Westeros into the hands of major characters, and not having any of them have a clash with a white walker.
..and for as long as Jaime, Pod, and Brienne were held up against that wall (being tickled?) - they somehow all survived - along with Sam who was still sobbing - not dead - just stabbing and sobbing...

Just bad, pedestrian writing, clearly made for the Micheal Bay action fans that the show has turned into now.

If you felt satisfied with the ending of this 8 year build-up, then good for you.  I personally thought they handled this battle very poorly, and it in no way "dethrones" LOTR as having the best cinematic battles ever filmed.

[Howard_Casto]

Well no.  I hate Michael Bay stuff with a passion and I loved it, so your theory is debunked. 

[Malenko]

Not being able to see what was going on is what had me playing MK11 on mute with my back to the TV for the majority of the episode. I saw just as much watching as I did just listening.
You call it artistic vision, I call it irritated viewership.

I get that Arya was quoting Jon from when she first got Needler , I'm saying Sansa is less useful than an 11 yr old girl.

Notable things the main character Sansa did:
got married a few times with little to no impact.
got raped by Ramsey and later got Ramsey eaten by his own dogs.

Notable things the side character Samwell Tarley did:
Enlisted in the Night's Watch
Outsmarted Mallister and Cotter to get Jon elected Lord Commander
First to kill a White Walker
Rescues Gilly and her baby Sam, and gets them to safety on the other side of the wall
finds a "cure" for Grey Scale
researched the weaknesses of the white walkers.
told jon that Bran was alive, and later told Jon that he was a Targaryen

Everyone in the family went through something and came out the other side changed. Robb became dead and even then it was Arya that avenged him in a bad ass way and not Sansa.

[opt2not]

It’s not a theory.
Micheal Bay movies, Star Trek Discovery, the Last Jedi...they’re all in the same pandering action-based category. Light on making sense, light on characters taking actions that are consistent...just turn your brain off, sit back and enjoy an amusement park ride.
And that’s normally fine. But Game of thrones has always been more cerebral, till the material ran out. Notice how they’re playing it safe now with killing of secondary or tertiary characters you don’t really care about?

Look, I’ve explained why I felt disappointed with this episode, and why it doesn’t hold a candle to LOTR’s Battle if Helms Deep, or any of the other Battles in the previous seasons.

One just shouldn’t get angry because others have a difference in personal preference.

[Howard_Casto]

The true sign of something being artistically relevant is that not everyone likes it.  Everyone likes those damn Avengers movies and they are bland as ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  I mean they are a decent watch, but not 1 billion dollars good.  If everyone had liked the episode it would probably mean that it was fairly generic and therefore a terrible end to the arc.  Sorry you didn't like it, but I did and so did many others did so it isn't poorly done, you just didn't like it.  And that's ok and you are entitled to your own opinion.

Just don't act like this is on me.  I started the thread, you didn't have to make your opinion known especially if you feel like I would have reacted like you are accusing me of doing.  You still don't seem to get that you are the one that always starts stuff.

[opt2not]

Listen, I don’t tip toe around the eggshells of your ego. You put out a statement in the second sentence of your opening post that was goading to be challenged. The Two Towers Battle, the previous battles in this show are all better, period. This episode didn’t even come close to dethroning those scenes.

Saying that I didn’t need to engage your statement because you’d react poorly is ridiculous. I don’t cater my posts around your emotional state. Sorry. 

[opt2not]

Not being able to see what was going on is what had me playing MK11 on mute with my back to the TV for the majority of the episode. I saw just as much watching as I did just listening.
You call it artistic vision, I call it irritated viewership.

Spot on.

I get that Arya was quoting Jon from when she first got Needler , I'm saying Sansa is less useful than an 11 yr old girl.

Exactly. They really missed an opportunity for her to actually do “something”. And I thought she would have, especially after that Therion speech about the thinkers and little guys  making a difference in a battle.
Sansa could have had a real moment of selflessness and honour by attempting to defend zombies off in the crypt...but instead they wrote her as a secondary in that whole scene. She really didn’t need to be there.

[Malenko]

I think Lord of the Rings has officially been de-throned as having the best cinematic battles ever filmed.

I just think the praise is too high considering what we actually saw.  The only battle in the show worse than this is the one where Tyrion gets KO'ed at the start and you don't get to see the actual battle.

[Howard_Casto]

Not really.  The problem with Lord of the Rings battles is that there is never any sense of danger.  Legolas and Gimley frikkin quip at each other through each one.  In other words, it's a "movie" battle.  This one was brutal.... half of the characters did nothing but scream and constantly hack away at zombies barely saving their life each time.  Unlike a film, a few of the people in those desperate situations didn't make it.  And at the end everyone who did survive were beat up with scratches and cuts and wounds all over them.  You felt like they actually went through something.  Looking back at LOTR without the glasses of nostalgia the battles were kind of like a video game. 

There were certainly a lot of great battles on the show I won't argue that, but with the exception of the battle of the ---daisies--- I don't think any of them had a better payoff and understand, we've been waiting 8 years for this.... the only thing that mattered was the payoff.

[wp34]

Not really.  The problem with Lord of the Rings battles is that there is never any sense of danger.  Legolas and Gimley frikkin quip at each other through each one.  In other words, it's a "movie" battle.  This one was brutal.... half of the characters did nothing but scream and constantly hack away at zombies barely saving their life each time.  Unlike a film, a few of the people in those desperate situations didn't make it.  And at the end everyone who did survive were beat up with scratches and cuts and wounds all over them.  You felt like they actually went through something.  Looking back at LOTR without the glasses of nostalgia the battles were kind of like a video game. 

This is a great point.  The characters looked and acted scared in a way you don't often see in a movie.  Almost panicked at times---heck Clegane seemed like a coward due to the fire.  Very intense.  Too bad they chose to make it so dark and hard to see.

[opt2not]

we've been waiting 8 years for this.... the only thing that mattered was the payoff.

Too bad they chose to make it so dark and hard to see.

Annnnnd this is why it fails.   We've waited 8 years of repetition and build-up that Winter is Coming, only to be barely able to see half of what's going on, be confused about what's going on, and be fed an inconsistency in character choices and safe playing of killing off characters that don't really matter.

Also, that's 8 years to wait for a 1 episode battle that sewed it up all neatly. I would have rather have them draw out the battle into at least 2 episodes since it supposed to be the "grand reveal", and kill off some primary characters...but now they have 7 more episodes to recover, deal with King's Landing, King or Queen in the North, alliances, etc...

I think Lord of the Rings has officially been de-throned as having the best cinematic battles ever filmed.

I just think the praise is too high considering what we actually saw.  The only battle in the show worse than this is the one where Tyrion gets KO'ed at the start and you don't get to see the actual battle.

Yup.  "best cinematic battles ever filmed" is indeed a stretch.

[pbj]

Yah, I hadn't seen any episodes  since the first season and despite all that "they kill everyone" narrative, most of the characters are still around....

[wp34]

Yah, I hadn't seen any episodes  since the first season and despite all that "they kill everyone" narrative, most of the characters are still around....

Seems to me the killing of main characters slowed quite a bit once the show outpaced the books.  It became more of a TV show in that regard.  If we ever get another book it will be interesting to see if the killing starts again.

[markc74]

Thought it was ok. Darkness whether intended or not was annoying. Dont think it was as good as lotr battles. Dont even think it was as good as the battle of the ---daisies--- episode from the last series. And I'm still confused how the whole dothraki tribe gets killed in5 seconds yet 3 people with their backs to wall are still swinging their swords around after 30 minutes 

Still. Was watchable enough but not as good as I hoped it would be.

[fallacy]

To me it was just trying to cover up the amount of CG they had to do with alot of darkness, blur and smoke. I thought the season 5 final battle was much better. It was still good I need to download the episode and watch it again. My parents invite everyone over for it, but it looked so dark and grey I am thinking there must be a problem with there TV; no way that it would be released looking like that.

[schmerzkaufen]

Okay so the battle was full of nonsense, but the episode entertaining-enough.
If your brain's set in advance on "ok this is tv not a superproduction helmed by masters of the art either"

What annoys me is that they didn't keep the whole white walkers and night king deal for the end, like something that would end the 'game' in an unexpected earth-shattering fashion.
Nope, we waited because "winter is coming", but we get "Cersei is still standing" 
I would rather have had the whole game disturbed by a massive invasion of the seven kindoms and a much more desperate situation overall.

[Osirus23]

Yah, I hadn't seen any episodes  since the first season and despite all that "they kill everyone" narrative, most of the characters are still around....

Seems to me the killing of main characters slowed quite a bit once the show outpaced the books.  It became more of a TV show in that regard.  If we ever get another book it will be interesting to see if the killing starts again.

It's a lot easier to kill of characters in a book because you don't have to deal with hiring actors, contracts, etc.

I stopped watching the show years ago when it ran out of book material and became essentially a ---smurfy--- fanfiction. I'm having my doubts that the books will ever conclude though.

[CCM]

Also, that's 8 years to wait for a 1 episode battle that sewed it up all neatly. I would have rather have them draw out the battle into at least 2 episodes since it supposed to be the "grand reveal", and kill off some primary characters...but now they have 7 more episodes to recover, deal with King's Landing, King or Queen in the North, alliances, etc...

There are only 3 more episodes, not 7.   

Exactly. They really missed an opportunity for her to actually do “something”. And I thought she would have, especially after that Therion speech about the thinkers and little guys  making a difference in a battle.

Who the hell is Therion?

[wp34]

I'm having my doubts that the books will ever conclude though.

Same.  Martin just doesn't seem like he is really interested in finishing them.

The show is fun though.  Not as good as the books for sure but talking with people about the show is half the fun.

[Osirus23]

Same.  Martin just doesn't seem like he is really interested in finishing them.

The most optimistic I can be is that he adapts The Winds of Winter to be a conclusion to the series and scraps A Dream of Spring entirely. Expecting 2 more books seems implausible at this point.

[CCM]

Same.  Martin just doesn't seem like he is really interested in finishing them.

The most optimistic I can be is that he adapts The Winds of Winter to be a conclusion to the series and scraps A Dream of Spring entirely. Expecting 2 more books seems implausible at this point.

I haven't read all of the books and I'm not sure if I'll get around to them or not.   Where did the books end in relation to the show?

[opt2not]

Also, that's 8 years to wait for a 1 episode battle that sewed it up all neatly. I would have rather have them draw out the battle into at least 2 episodes since it supposed to be the "grand reveal", and kill off some primary characters...but now they have 7 more episodes to recover, deal with King's Landing, King or Queen in the North, alliances, etc...

There are only 3 more episodes, not 7.   

Wait, we're not getting 10 episodes this season??  Crap!  Now I really feel cheated out of the the 8 years of hype. 

Exactly. They really missed an opportunity for her to actually do “something”. And I thought she would have, especially after that Therion speech about the thinkers and little guys  making a difference in a battle.

Who the hell is Therion?

Sorry, I meant to write Tyrion. I think I was writing about Theon in the same post and just mashed-up the names. LOL my bad.

[Osirus23]

I haven't read all of the books and I'm not sure if I'll get around to them or not.   Where did the books end in relation to the show?

I don't remember for sure. Originally they were doing one season per book, but I believe season three ended before they did all of book three. I think they tried to slow down a bit to give time for book 6 to come out, but before long it was obvious that wasn't going to happen.

I finished book 5 7 years ago so my memory isn't clear, I think it ended with Jon Snow being "killed" in a revolt or battle at the Wall.

[opt2not]

There are only 3 more episodes, not 7.   

Actually, I won't mind this if they keep with the extended length episodes. I believe the last one was 1.5 hours long, I'm not sure about the previous 2.  But with ep.3 it felt even longer due to the flat pacing and drawn out slo-mo panning scenes.

I'm hoping there's more to the White Walkers and Night King, and that they don't just end it on dealing with Cersei (or being dealt by Cersei??).

[leapinlew]

There are only 3 more episodes, not 7.   

Actually, I won't mind this if they keep with the extended length episodes. I believe the last one was 1.5 hours long, I'm not sure about the previous 2.  But with ep.3 it felt even longer due to the flat pacing and drawn out slo-mo panning scenes.

I'm hoping there's more to the White Walkers and Night King, and that they don't just end it on dealing with Cersei (or being dealt by Cersei??).

Totally agree. I couldn’t wait to watch episode 3 and was a little disappointed that episode 2 was a talkie. I’m less excited for episode 4. I just never saw Cersei as a real threat. I have no emotional investment in $ellswords. This show has a way of bobbing when I think it will weave.

What I will always love about GoT is the lack of feeing safe. Anything could happen at anytime.

[CCM]

There are only 3 more episodes, not 7.   

Actually, I won't mind this if they keep with the extended length episodes. I believe the last one was 1.5 hours long, I'm not sure about the previous 2.  But with ep.3 it felt even longer due to the flat pacing and drawn out slo-mo panning scenes.

I'm hoping there's more to the White Walkers and Night King, and that they don't just end it on dealing with Cersei (or being dealt by Cersei??).

Episodes 1 and 2 were both about an hour and are supposed to be the shortest of the season.   Episode 3 was billed as the longest episode, so the final 3 should fall in between somewhere and all be over an hour.   As far as 10 episode seasons, last season was only 7 episodes... so season 6 was the last 10 episode season.

[BadMouth]

I enjoyed it, but this video of one of the writers is friggin hilarious: (spoilers) (and unmute it)
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bjjjjj/actual_footage_of_the_writers_after_episode_3/