Sinden Lightgun Kickstarter date revealed!

[ZTylerDurden717]

Terminator demo

[Rockstead]

That recoil sounds great!

[ArcadeBliss]

I received mine (non-recoil) and I am very happy. I have 2 Aimtraks and the quality of these guns are WAY above in fit, finish, and feel. Everything feels tight and quality and it has worked well on the games I've tried. I'm looking forward to getting my cab re-setup and trying it on my WG 27" crt

[Titchgamer]

So....is there a verdict on these things yet or are people still waiting for them?

Well you know I love mine

But with a grander perspective yeah reviews are good, Seem to be lots of happy customers anyways!
Lots of the big streamers have given positive reviews as well including Drew, ETA Prime and Retro Ralph.

Its been good to see devs have been updating emulators to work with them to.

Singe 2.0 was released with support for it as well as the Tekno Parrot devs making TP easier to setup with the to

Theres still many more to ship but all KS non recoils have shipped now I believe and the Indiegogo non recoils have also started to go out.

Still waiting on a recoil unit but by the sounds those are due to start shipping in the next 2 weeks.

[Trnzaddict]

So....is there a verdict on these things yet or are people still waiting for them?

Well you know I love mine

But with a grander perspective yeah reviews are good, Seem to be lots of happy customers anyways!
Lots of the big streamers have given positive reviews as well including Drew, ETA Prime and Retro Ralph.

Its been good to see devs have been updating emulators to work with them to.

Singe 2.0 was released with support for it as well as the Tekno Parrot devs making TP easier to setup with the to

Theres still many more to ship but all KS non recoils have shipped now I believe and the Indiegogo non recoils have also started to go out.

Still waiting on a recoil unit but by the sounds those are due to start shipping in the next 2 weeks.

Titch, what emulators need updates for the Sindens to work? On my cabinet I use MAME, RetroArch for Naomi/Atomiswave, Model 2, Super Model 3, Daphne & Singe.

I kind of want these to be plug and play when they arrive. Rip out the Aimtraks and put the Sindens in. I mean technically they're mice, they should just work no?

[Titchgamer]

Out of those just Singe needs updating.
Not sure what version of Supermodel you running but theres a new unofficial build which is worthwhile updating to.

[esoteric_rt]

What's the purpose of the D-Pad on the side of the gun? To navigate menus?

I can't think why you would need that otherwise and it takes away from the arcade appearance

[Titchgamer]

What's the purpose of the D-Pad on the side of the gun? To navigate menus?

I can't think why you would need that otherwise and it takes away from the arcade appearance

G con 2 had a dpad.
Its used on lots of console games.

[ArcadeBliss]

I received mine and got them working with my CRT after some fiddling. Does any know how to set alternate keys for each gun? I want p1 to use 1 and 5 and p2 to use 2 and 6 respectively for start and coin up.

[Montell]

Still waiting on my recoils, my only huge concern is the software, hearing reports of crashing. I dont have bluetooth which i read might be a cause but i have a wireless microsoft keyboard dongle which uses some wireless protocol, i hope that does not cause any issues.

Still really curious how the software behaves in a cab, have not seen that yet. I have a small script created whenever i get my guns that will launch the software with windows and minimize on boot, since i have two i will need two instances of the software. Really not sure how its going to behave on a cab launching other emulators. I just keep seeing random reports of it crashing. If i do want to play a gun game my hope is the software will sit in the background and i can just pick up my guns and use them if i want to play a gun game then put them back. Not sure if thats wishful thinking.

Software should be as big of focus as hardware in my opinion.

[Phreakwars]

Still waiting on my recoils, my only huge concern is the software, hearing reports of crashing. I dont have bluetooth which i read might be a cause but i have a wireless microsoft keyboard dongle which uses some wireless protocol, i hope that does not cause any issues.

I experienced a couple crashes with mine at first. Did a bit of research and also took note of the bluetooth issue. Unplugged the bluetooth dongle and that pretty much solved it. The only issue I have ran into since then was when trying to record in OBS. I use dual monitors and typically have my OBS window off screen on the secondary monitor mounted above my primary. The OBS screen will of course show the main screen that I am recording in a smaller preview window and I noticed the lightgun would want to also draw from the secondary monitors image and make the crosshairs go off to the left and upwards. I then tried recording in OBS by starting the record, then minimizing the OBS window and that seemed to fix that issue as well.

[Titchgamer]

The software is still in Beta, The plan is to have a new release out in the next few weeks which should fix most of the random and known errors.

I know Andy has been working on it but has been concentrating on getting recoil finished to ship.

The dual screen thing can be fixed using the offsets in the software, Its no so much a sinden issue as the way windows manages dual screens.

As for how it runs in a cab I have seen a few instances of it being used in a cab, They have not really shared their setup etc but have not been complaining of issues so runs fine as far as I can tell.

[Phreakwars]

The software is still in Beta, The plan is to have a new release out in the next few weeks which should fix most of the random and known errors.

I know Andy has been working on it but has been concentrating on getting recoil finished to ship.

The dual screen thing can be fixed using the offsets in the software

I played with the offset just a bit, and that seems to make it flake out more.. for me it does anyways. What works best for me, is mirroring the primary screen onto the secondary, then just shut off the secondary monitor while playing. Not like I'm using it for anything when playing anyways, so no big deal. Haven't quite configured it for the cab yet as I'm still doing some other stuff with the programming, alot of it is redoing and customizing bezels  (as mentioned here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164095.0.html )so that instead of just a white border with black outer border, you see the actual bezel as well. Then of course testing this. I'm testing on the cab because of the dual monitor issues on my main PC.

[Titchgamer]

The software is still in Beta, The plan is to have a new release out in the next few weeks which should fix most of the random and known errors.

I know Andy has been working on it but has been concentrating on getting recoil finished to ship.

The dual screen thing can be fixed using the offsets in the software

I played with the offset just a bit, and that seems to make it flake out more.. for me it does anyways. What works best for me, is mirroring the primary screen onto the secondary, then just shut off the secondary monitor while playing. Not like I'm using it for anything when playing anyways, so no big deal. Haven't quite configured it for the cab yet as I'm still doing some other stuff with the programming, alot of it is redoing and customizing bezels  (as mentioned here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164095.0.html )so that instead of just a white border with black outer border, you see the actual bezel as well. Then of course testing this. I'm testing on the cab because of the dual monitor issues on my main PC.

Regarding the bezels, Are you on the discord?
A project has been started making custom mame bezels if you are interested in contributing?

[Phreakwars]

Regarding the bezels, Are you on the discord?
A project has been started making custom mame bezels if you are interested in contributing?

I do indeed have a discord and even a Deviant Art account, however I rarely use either one. The reason I have them is to monitor my (autistic) daughter's online activity. It's not her I watch out for, but rather creeps who may want to try and take advantage of the fact that she has autism. Too many frikken sickos in this world, it's a damn shame, but my 2 youngest and special needs kids are my life and would be my only motivation for using my guns for other then hunting and sport shooting if some sumbitch ever..... But not to derail the topic.. Yeah, I might be interested. where it be?

[Titchgamer]

dropped you a pm

[Titchgamer]

Scratch that seems my PM's are not sending again for some reason 

Anyways join the discord here: https://discord.com/invite/B67hgt4

Once you are in drop me a PM and I will explain

[romshark]

I'm waiting for mine (2 guns with recoil), but I did just fund them on Saturday. So probably get them in February or March.

My question though is about the recoil. I saw it can be turned off in software, but is there a "cabinet friendly" way of changing this setting? Maybe even a command line option.
I just want the option to toggle them so they won't wake the house up if I do some zombie killing after midnight. (not sure how loud the recoil are.)

[Titchgamer]

I'm waiting for mine (2 guns with recoil), but I did just fund them on Saturday. So probably get them in February or March.

My question though is about the recoil. I saw it can be turned off in software, but is there a "cabinet friendly" way of changing this setting? Maybe even a command line option.
I just want the option to toggle them so they won't wake the house up if I do some zombie killing after midnight. (not sure how loud the recoil are.)

At the moment no but I believe its being looked into for a future update.

[PL1]

I'm waiting for mine (2 guns with recoil), but I did just fund them on Saturday. So probably get them in February or March.

My question though is about the recoil. I saw it can be turned off in software, but is there a "cabinet friendly" way of changing this setting? Maybe even a command line option.
I just want the option to toggle them so they won't wake the house up if I do some zombie killing after midnight. (not sure how loud the recoil are.)

At the moment no but I believe its being looked into for a future update.

While you're waiting for that update -- just spitballing here -- doesn't the solenoid run off a higher voltage power supply separate from the USB, camera, and button encoder circuits?

If so, shouldn't you be able to just switch off the solenoid power supply and leave the rest of the gun working?


Scott

[Titchgamer]

I'm waiting for mine (2 guns with recoil), but I did just fund them on Saturday. So probably get them in February or March.

My question though is about the recoil. I saw it can be turned off in software, but is there a "cabinet friendly" way of changing this setting? Maybe even a command line option.
I just want the option to toggle them so they won't wake the house up if I do some zombie killing after midnight. (not sure how loud the recoil are.)

At the moment no but I believe its being looked into for a future update.

While you're waiting for that update -- just spitballing here -- doesn't the solenoid run off a higher voltage power supply separate from the USB, camera, and button encoder circuits?

If so, shouldn't you be able to just switch off the solenoid power supply and leave the rest of the gun working?


Scott

Nah the noid runs from the USB same as the gun.
No extra PSU’s

[ZTylerDurden717]

2 Player VC2 Demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em1e2ZOZW2I&feature=youtu.be

[KenToad]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/01/a-new-110-light-gun-for-old-duck-hunts-ars-tests-an-hdtv-friendly-option/

"Without ideal lighting, however, Sinden's usefulness can vary. I struggled to get it working on a 24-inch monitor on a desk in the middle of a well-lit room, even after using Sinden's software to modify the white border and add a surrounding black edge to better establish contrast. My 55-inch TV, set up directly against a wall, has consistently worked better. Think about how finicky the Nintendo Wii's sensor bar could be in well-lit rooms and estimate your gaming room's Sinden-friendliness accordingly."

This quote from the "Recoil?" sidebar also caught my eye:

"However, the sensation in my review kit doesn't have the same heft as some of my arcade favorites; it feels like a plastic puck is rattling around inside the gun, instead of how a bullet's force is expelled through the gun's body. Between that disappointment and my questions about the recoil effect's reliability over time, I'd recommend skipping the upgrade if you're on the fence."

[Titchgamer]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/01/a-new-110-light-gun-for-old-duck-hunts-ars-tests-an-hdtv-friendly-option/

"Without ideal lighting, however, Sinden's usefulness can vary. I struggled to get it working on a 24-inch monitor on a desk in the middle of a well-lit room, even after using Sinden's software to modify the white border and add a surrounding black edge to better establish contrast. My 55-inch TV, set up directly against a wall, has consistently worked better. Think about how finicky the Nintendo Wii's sensor bar could be in well-lit rooms and estimate your gaming room's Sinden-friendliness accordingly."

This quote from the "Recoil?" sidebar also caught my eye:

"However, the sensation in my review kit doesn't have the same heft as some of my arcade favorites; it feels like a plastic puck is rattling around inside the gun, instead of how a bullet's force is expelled through the gun's body. Between that disappointment and my questions about the recoil effect's reliability over time, I'd recommend skipping the upgrade if you're on the fence."

Yeah I saw that review I while ago although I am not sure the author 100% knew how to set the gun up.
Firstly there is no Sinden Server to get updates from so thats wrong, You can Update it with no internet connection at all as long as you have the software present on your computer.

Also the gun should work fine even in heavy light but depending how bright it is you may need to up your monitors brightness as well as increase the border size. He mentions the border but mentions nothing about TV brightness.
Direct Sunlight can be a bit of a ---smurfette--- but thats the same for all guns.

As for the recoil that very much depends what option its set to.

If its on fast full auto it does indeed feel like something rattling around inside the gun as its low powered (it is a solenoid after all) But if you set it to high power its a fairly substantial kick and certainly enough to move your aim.
As for the longevity well who knows about that one.
The only comment I can make in that regard is it does not get hot even after prolonged use so that in my mind means it should not be burning out any time soon (hopefully).

That all being said I think his review was pretty fair.

[KenToad]

The review definitely wasn't negative. The main takeaway seems to be that the Sinden lightgun is not at all a plug and play system. It's working tech that requires a lot of end-user tweaking, research, and understanding to get the most out of it. The comments about the unprofessional support forums and the screenshots of the opaque software were on point.

[Titchgamer]

The review definitely wasn't negative. The main takeaway seems to be that the Sinden lightgun is not at all a plug and play system. It's working tech that requires a lot of end-user tweaking, research, and understanding to get the most out of it. The comments about the unprofessional support forums and the screenshots of the opaque software were on point.

Well we all know from this hobby that there is no such thing as plug and play when it comes to emulation.
The actual gun setup for the most part is a fairly plug and play experience unless you have a multi monitor setup but thats another issue entirely.
You were always going to have fun setting up all the emu's etc though.

Hell everyone remember how bad it was before Argonlefou made demulshooter?

Yeah the software needs some work, Andy is aware of that and is working on it.
He introduced a 1 shot calibration in the last update which is pretty cool though

[TPB]

Isn't the Sinden advertising a little dishonest?

They state "The Sinden Lightgun is the world's first true LCD television compatible Lightgun."

What about the Ultimarc AimTrak lightgun?  Or Wiimotes inside the Wii Zapper?  Or PS Move inside of the Sharp Shooter?

All three of those solutions operate as lightguns with LCD TV's.  There'e also been other products sold over the years.

Sure, they're not actual lightguns in the historic technical sense of the word.  But the Sinden isn't either.  You'll have to go back to the CRT days and use the GunCons (or the gun solutions that came before them) for that.

BTW, I'm new to this thread, so maybe that's already been covered.

I guess it's no big deal ... advertising hype and overblown claims are nothing new.

The advertising aside, the Sinden appears to be a promising product.  Kudos to them, for its development.  It's great to have a new and promising lightgun option.

[Titchgamer]

Isn't the Sinden advertising a little dishonest?

They state "The Sinden Lightgun is the world's first true LCD television compatible Lightgun."

What about the Ultimarc AimTrak lightgun?  Or Wiimotes inside the Wii Zapper?  Or PS Move inside of the Sharp Shooter?

All three of those solutions operate as lightguns with LCD TV's.  There'e also been other products sold over the years.

Sure, they're not actual lightguns in the historic technical sense of the word.  But the Sinden isn't either.  You'll have to go back to the CRT days and use the GunCons (or the gun solutions that came before them) for that.

BTW, I'm new to this thread, so maybe that's already been covered.

I guess it's no big deal ... advertising hype and overblown claims are nothing new.

The advertising aside, the Sinden appears to be a promising product.  Kudos to them, for its development.  It's great to have a new and promising lightgun option.

Not really, You have only quoted the first part of the statement:

“The Sinden Lightgun is the world’s first true LCD compatible Lightgun, providing all the functionality and game experience of the original CRT Lightguns without requiring additional hardware such as infra red sensor bars.”

[TPB]

Titchgamer, please don't accuse me of misquoting.

That's the whole promo statement, in its entirety, at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-sinden-lightgun#/

"The Sinden Lightgun is the world's first true LCD television compatible Lightgun"

Anyone can go to that URL and see for themselves.

[Titchgamer]

Fair enough, I just took the full quote from its website.

https://www.sindenlightgun.com/

Maybe theres a character limit I dunno.

[TPB]

OK Titchgamer, thanks for clarifying.

In Sinden's favour, it appears to be the only lightgun solution for LCD TV's that's still in production:

*  The EMS TopGun III is another solution from times past, but it's no longer sold.

*  Every model variant of the AimTrak is "out of stock" on Ultimarc's website.  So, it all looks it's fallen by the wayside.

*  Wiimotes are out-of-date by two Nintendo console generations.

*  The PS Move is apparently still supported by the PS5, but only for VR games.  Developers for the platform appear to have abandoned lightgun games.  The PS5 isn't backwards compatible with PS3 games ... so there's no support for those PS3 games that supported gun-style control with the PS Move controllers.

That leaves Sinden with a pretty open playing field.  Bring it on!

[Titchgamer]

Yeah I had noticed the ATs had been unavailable for some time now.
Not sure why as they used to be quite popular.
Though mine will be going on ebay when I get around to it!

[TPB]

Though mine [the AimTraks] will be going on ebay when I get around to it!

Why?

Given you've already got the AimTraks, don't they work sufficiently for your needs?

Or do you simply have no interest in playing lightgun games any more?  If so, why your interest in the Sinden?

[Titchgamer]

Though mine [the AimTraks] will be going on ebay when I get around to it!

Why?

Given you've already got the AimTraks, don't they work sufficiently for your needs?

Or do you simply have no interest in playing lightgun games any more?  If so, why your interest in the Sinden?

Because the sindens work so much better I am never likely to use the AT’s again.

[clhug]

Though mine [the AimTraks] will be going on ebay when I get around to it!

Why?

Given you've already got the AimTraks, don't they work sufficiently for your needs?

Or do you simply have no interest in playing lightgun games any more?  If so, why your interest in the Sinden?

I could be wrong, but I can only guess that you don't understand the difference.  The word "true" is the key part of the Sinden statement.  The implication is that it gives the same pinpoint, line of sight accuracy that old-fashioned light guns had with CRT televisions, which was never achievable with LCD screens before now.

Wii remotes were never intended to have exact accuracy.  (Notice every Wii game that has "aiming" involved uses on-screen crosshairs.)  AimTraks (and I have 2 myself) are basically a fancy Wii remote.  Yes, these WORK with LCD screens, but you have to calibrate them and stand in EXACTLY the same place every time you play if you want line-of-sight accuracy (and who ever stands in EXACTLY the same place every time they play), or you're constantly recalibrating.  Either that, or you use on-screen crosshairs, which I think is what most people (me included) do with AimTraks.

The Sindens provide "true" line-of-sight withOUT the need for on-screen crosshairs, and WITH the ability to stand anywhere without the need to constantly recalibrate.  (I think there is a calibration, but you do it once for any given screen and then never need to calibrate it again on that screen.)

I was waiting to see the feedback on the Sindens from the production models before I jumped on board, but from everything I see/read/hear about them, I'll be buying a pair before too long and probably also try to sell my AimTracks.

That said, I also just discovered GUN4IR, which is a DIY lightgun setup using instructions that someone created and custom software for an Arduino board they wrote that also gives very accurate line-of-sight.  So I'm considering that too.

[Rockstead]

This has to be the most in-depth unbiased technical review and tear-down of a Siden yet, I would have wanted this guy involved in my Production design and beta testing, I’m surprised Andy didn’t.

It doesn’t change the fact that the Sinden is the best choice, but does reveal on how some aspects are not perfect.

[Titchgamer]

Ide say that was a very fair review.
I agree with him about the blocky handle and the dpad thing.
I also said the same things when I first got mine, IMO the grey prototype he had was much nicer to hold.

Wouldn't agree with the comment about it being no better than the AT though.
I mean he is right in terms of the latency being the same its a USB mouse at the end of the day so wont be bugger all in it but the difference in accuracy is substantial.

[Rockstead]

Ide say that was a very fair review.
I agree with him about the blocky handle and the dpad thing.
I also said the same things when I first got mine, IMO the grey prototype he had was much nicer to hold.

Wouldn't agree with the comment about it being no better than the AT though.
I mean he is right in terms of the latency being the same its a USB mouse at the end of the day so wont be bugger all in it but the difference in accuracy is substantial.

Don’t worry, you’re still my favourite gun guy on this forum

Are you aware if Andy has resolved any of the issues? Namely the quality of the exterior finish, but most importantly on the issue with the trigger and what the reviewer did to resolve it, like is this a factory assembly error? I’m not worried because it can easily be fixed but Andy should get that done at assembly time and I know he’s very open to improving anything, actually he’s too nice based on some of the disgruntled buyers on the indiegogo, I really hope this week goes as well at the factory as he had planned since he had said they will increase the workers by 2 or 3 times, I would plant myself at the factory this week if I were him.

He also talked about the recoil issue when holding the trigger for automatic fire but I think he said it could be addressed through software and then there was all that talk about crt but it didn’t hold my interest.

I asked him to add a table of contents to the video (which he did) I kept having to re-watch it because I can never remember at which point he said what, I was trying to find what you referenced about the AimTrak, I didn’t recall it because in his comment section he does say the Gun4IR is his favourite but that both the Sinden and it can achieve pinpoint accuracy.

I also didn’t realize the Gun4IR was such a worthy alternative, even better according to the reviewer, but I’m far from a DIY person, so I prefer a commercial product but it’s nice to know there will be a worthy competitor and more commercial like options coming for the Gun4IR, it will ensure Andy stays innovative.

[clhug]

This has to be the most in-depth unbiased technical review and tear-down of a Siden yet, I would have wanted this guy involved in my Production design and beta testing, I’m surprised Andy didn’t.

It doesn’t change the fact that the Sinden is the best choice, but does reveal on how some aspects are not perfect.

Great review!  Besides the comment that Titchgamer made, I noticed one other minor issue with the review, which I've posted in the review comments.  In his brief mention of projectors, he compares his Hitachi projector working fine to the fact that "LED" projectors aren't recommended.  He's confusing "LED" projectors with "LCD" projectors.  LED projectors are super-cheap projectors that use an LED as the light source.  It's not about how the picture is created (the LCD panel that light shows through).

I also noticed his mention of Gun4IR, which I also just recently discovered.  I honestly wish these two had hooked up at some point.  I like the idea of the Sinden being a finished product I can just buy, but I like the idea of the IR emitters and no white borders on the screen.  At it's core, they basically both use the same idea, the geometry of the screen, they just use different means of defining the screen borders.

[Titchgamer]

Ide say that was a very fair review.
I agree with him about the blocky handle and the dpad thing.
I also said the same things when I first got mine, IMO the grey prototype he had was much nicer to hold.

Wouldn't agree with the comment about it being no better than the AT though.
I mean he is right in terms of the latency being the same its a USB mouse at the end of the day so wont be bugger all in it but the difference in accuracy is substantial.

Don’t worry, you’re still my favourite gun guy on this forum

Are you aware if Andy has resolved any of the issues? Namely the quality of the exterior finish, but most importantly on the issue with the trigger and what the reviewer did to resolve it, like is this a factory assembly error? I’m not worried because it can easily be fixed but Andy should get that done at assembly time and I know he’s very open to improving anything, actually he’s too nice based on some of the disgruntled buyers on the indiegogo, I really hope this week goes as well at the factory as he had planned since he had said they will increase the workers by 2 or 3 times, I would plant myself at the factory this week if I were him.

He also talked about the recoil issue when holding the trigger for automatic fire but I think he said it could be addressed through software and then there was all that talk about crt but it didn’t hold my interest.

I asked him to add a table of contents to the video (which he did) I kept having to re-watch it because I can never remember at which point he said what, I was trying to find what you referenced about the AimTrak, I didn’t recall it because in his comment section he does say the Gun4IR is his favourite but that both the Sinden and it can achieve pinpoint accuracy.

I also didn’t realize the Gun4IR was such a worthy alternative, even better according to the reviewer, but I’m far from a DIY person, so I prefer a commercial product but it’s nice to know there will be a worthy competitor and more commercial like options coming for the Gun4IR, it will ensure Andy stays innovative.

Well ile start with the recoil issue.

Its likely Andy will be able to smoothe it out in future with firmware but what people need to remember about the recoil is its USB powered.
It does not have a external power source so its limited by how fast the cap can chsrge inbetween shots.

Thats why he made it adjustable so if you want full kick you have to slow down the ROF.
If you want fast ROF reduce the kick.

As for the trigger tightness issue that seems to be caused by the moulding process it does not happen to all units and 95% of the ones that do have it loosening the screws off 1/4 turn fixes it.

I dont think adding a little grease in there is a bad idea but looked like he added to much grease IMO.
Grease is a less is more kind of thing.

Sadly those thats not likely something to get fixed any time soon as to have moulds adjusted is costly but obv thats Andys choice.