Sinden Lightgun Kickstarter date revealed!

[SammyWI]

That doesn't sound great. What kind of microswitch is it? Does it look like quality parts inside?

I'm no electronics expert but something like one of these:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/D2F-L-A1/SW843-ND/368468
Quality looked fine but I did not look for a brand or anything.  I was hoping for the larger switches typical in arcade push buttons.  Switch was soldered into the PCB and mounted with two screws.

Yeah I would of liked a arcade style micro in there just so it would of been easier to mod etc.

Still they look and feel like a quality switch and the PCB in general looks well made.

Prob would not be that hard to jerry rig one in but I dont think it would be worth the effort.

I was talking to someone yesterday though about increasing the first stage travel by bending the lever arm a little or notching out the trigger arm a few mm.

Of course these are more opinion related mods not required heh.

Yeah it all looks like good quality parts and assembly to me.  It's just optimized for mass production and so is not too easy for modding.  I could mod it for a larger switch if I wanted to go through that much effort (desolder the original, solder in some wires or a plug, add a mount for a bigger switch, mod the trigger to hit the new switch).  Simplest mod I'm thinking of right now is to add a block to limit the overtravel of the trigger past the point of switch activation.  That looks pretty easy and reversible.

[Titchgamer]

That doesn't sound great. What kind of microswitch is it? Does it look like quality parts inside?

I'm no electronics expert but something like one of these:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/D2F-L-A1/SW843-ND/368468
Quality looked fine but I did not look for a brand or anything.  I was hoping for the larger switches typical in arcade push buttons.  Switch was soldered into the PCB and mounted with two screws.

Yeah I would of liked a arcade style micro in there just so it would of been easier to mod etc.

Still they look and feel like a quality switch and the PCB in general looks well made.

Prob would not be that hard to jerry rig one in but I dont think it would be worth the effort.

I was talking to someone yesterday though about increasing the first stage travel by bending the lever arm a little or notching out the trigger arm a few mm.

Of course these are more opinion related mods not required heh.

Yeah it all looks like good quality parts and assembly to me.  It's just optimized for mass production and so is not too easy for modding.  I could mod it for a larger switch if I wanted to go through that much effort (desolder the original, solder in some wires or a plug, add a mount for a bigger switch, mod the trigger to hit the new switch).  Simplest mod I'm thinking of right now is to add a block to limit the overtravel of the trigger past the point of switch activation.  That looks pretty easy and reversible.

I was thinking of doing the same.
A well placed chunk of sugru should do it 😁👍

[SammyWI]

A quick tip for those that have their guns.  I noticed in the Configuration screen, the profile buttons don't make any changes to the Exposure setting.  This can have a major effect on how well the camera picks up the screen and boarder.  Mine was set at -9 Exposure by default and I was having a lot of problems getting it to work with a projector.  At -7 or -6 Exposure plus the Dim Display settings it's working great.
Edit: Just learned that the Exposure will affect the camera FPS.  So adjust brightness and contrast first before messing with Exposure.

[KenToad]

Have you guys been able to play through any games yet?

It sounds like the technology is working well, but the hardware could have used a few more revisions to improve comfort and feel.

[Titchgamer]

Have you guys been able to play through any games yet?

It sounds like the technology is working well, but the hardware could have used a few more revisions to improve comfort and feel.

I have not played any games all the way through yet, Not had time as I have been helping to write guides etc for when the non betas get sent out.
I have literally spent the entirety of the last few evenings going through every game in the mame library checking for bugs, set up issues etc etc.

Luckily most of the mame games work out of the box but a few of them have been fun!

As for the physical gun shell you will never please everyone but I agree with Sammys comments about the grip.
The travel of the trigger after activating the microswitch is a little large to but easily fixed.
I mean these things really are minor issues.

But in terms of operation, accuracy and practicality they really are spot on.

I have sunk some time into Time Crisis and Point Blank as they are 2 of my fave light gun games.
I would really like to play Judge Dredd but I am having issues with the reload system on that one.

[Titchgamer]

Little game play video I did the otherday.

[SammyWI]

Have you guys been able to play through any games yet?

It sounds like the technology is working well, but the hardware could have used a few more revisions to improve comfort and feel.

I have not had a lot of time to play a lot what with work, life and nice weather rapidly coming to an end. I have a long winter ahead to play in the basement.

But don't take my critical comments to mean that I don't like the light guns.  I do like them a lot and I have no regrets on backing the KS.  Like I said above I am a picky ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- when it comes to guns. And I like to mod and build stuff so I spend more time talking about that than l should.  But that is how I found this place.

[Titchgamer]

Have you guys been able to play through any games yet?

It sounds like the technology is working well, but the hardware could have used a few more revisions to improve comfort and feel.

I have not had a lot of time to play a lot what with work, life and nice weather rapidly coming to an end. I have a long winter ahead to play in the basement.

But don't take my critical comments to mean that I don't like the light guns.  I do like them a lot and I have no regrets on backing the KS.  Like I said above I am a picky ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- when it comes to guns. And I like to mod and build stuff so I spend more time talking about that than l should.  But that is how I found this place.

I am much the same, But I try not to concentrate on personal preference type stuff.
But I will be modding the trigger slightly, Not got around to it yet though as I have been busily hammering out problems with mame and making tutorial videos etc!

Managed to get judge dredd working though

[Mike A]

Tutorial videos? So do you work for the guy?

[Titchgamer]

Tutorial videos? So do you work for the guy?

No lol

But I like to help the community and I have had tons of questions being fired my way :p

[Mike A]

You write guides and make vidoes for the guy and he doesn't pay you at all?

You need a better agent.

[Titchgamer]

You write guides and make vidoes for the guy and he doesn't pay you at all?

You need a better agent.

Tell me about it!

If I had £1 for every time I helped someone I would be richer than Bezos lol

[pbj]

Could you please unglue your ass from the couch and make a video that demonstrates that this thing actually works better than existing solutions?  If he's raised millions, he can send you a tripod.

[Titchgamer]

Could you please unglue your ass from the couch and make a video that demonstrates that this thing actually works better than existing solutions?  If he's raised millions, he can send you a tripod.

What do you want exactly PBJ? I have made a tracking video while moving around and a game play video (filmed with a small tripod no less!)

Ime no YT streamer, I dont have loads of fancy gear I just use my iphone :p

[Howard_Casto]

Duct tape your phone to the barrel of the gun and play something with the cursor on so we can see the cursor following the gun in real time. 

Also if you guys are going to do troubleshooting, ect you might want to start a new thread.

[Titchgamer]

Duct tape your phone to the barrel of the gun and play something with the cursor on so we can see the cursor following the gun in real time. 

Also if you guys are going to do troubleshooting, ect you might want to start a new thread.

Thats basically what I did a page or 2 back?

The problem is it does not really work doing it in games as the mame mouse crosshair lags.

The shots are fine but the crosshair lags behind a little so I find it very distracting and does not look right.

The other thing I have noticed about the mame crosshair is its not always accurate to where the mouse actually is.
I am not sure if this is a new issue or not (never noticed it before) but it only seems to affect certain games.

For instance Deer Hunt, I calibrated the gun in the games in service menu which was fine and the gun shot where I was aiming.
But when I turned the crosshairs on to try something it was wayyy off to the side.
But the gun was still shooting accurately so that was a bit wierd.
I can only assume the crosshair is relative to the windows mouse and not the calibrated mame mouse?

[KenToad]

Duct tape your phone to the barrel of the gun and play something with the cursor on so we can see the cursor following the gun in real time. 

Also if you guys are going to do troubleshooting, ect you might want to start a new thread.

Thats basically what I did a page or 2 back?

The problem is it does not really work doing it in games as the mame mouse crosshair lags.

The shots are fine but the crosshair lags behind a little so I find it very distracting and does not look right.

The other thing I have noticed about the mame crosshair is its not always accurate to where the mouse actually is.
I am not sure if this is a new issue or not (never noticed it before) but it only seems to affect certain games.

For instance Deer Hunt, I calibrated the gun in the games in service menu which was fine and the gun shot where I was aiming.
But when I turned the crosshairs on to try something it was wayyy off to the side.
But the gun was still shooting accurately so that was a bit wierd.
I can only assume the crosshair is relative to the windows mouse and not the calibrated mame mouse?

What about games with built in crosshairs like T2? Does that lag?

[Titchgamer]

Duct tape your phone to the barrel of the gun and play something with the cursor on so we can see the cursor following the gun in real time. 

Also if you guys are going to do troubleshooting, ect you might want to start a new thread.

Thats basically what I did a page or 2 back?

The problem is it does not really work doing it in games as the mame mouse crosshair lags.

The shots are fine but the crosshair lags behind a little so I find it very distracting and does not look right.

The other thing I have noticed about the mame crosshair is its not always accurate to where the mouse actually is.
I am not sure if this is a new issue or not (never noticed it before) but it only seems to affect certain games.

For instance Deer Hunt, I calibrated the gun in the games in service menu which was fine and the gun shot where I was aiming.
But when I turned the crosshairs on to try something it was wayyy off to the side.
But the gun was still shooting accurately so that was a bit wierd.
I can only assume the crosshair is relative to the windows mouse and not the calibrated mame mouse?

What about games with built in crosshairs like T2? Does that lag?

Hmm not sure I didnt really spend any time with T2 as its a positional gun game.

Although I didnt really notice any tbh.

Its very noticeable on somthing fast like point blank where you shoot a target on the left, then right and by the time you are on the 3rd target the crosshairs not made it to the 2nd lol

[SammyWI]

Perhaps one of those that are demanding this video could show us an example of this kind of video using a known good light gun.  That would clarify a lot.

[Titchgamer]

Perhaps one of those that are demanding this video could show us an example of this kind of video using a known good light gun.  That would clarify a lot.

 

[KenToad]

Duct tape your phone to the barrel of the gun and play something with the cursor on so we can see the cursor following the gun in real time. 

Also if you guys are going to do troubleshooting, ect you might want to start a new thread.

Thats basically what I did a page or 2 back?

The problem is it does not really work doing it in games as the mame mouse crosshair lags.

The shots are fine but the crosshair lags behind a little so I find it very distracting and does not look right.

The other thing I have noticed about the mame crosshair is its not always accurate to where the mouse actually is.
I am not sure if this is a new issue or not (never noticed it before) but it only seems to affect certain games.

For instance Deer Hunt, I calibrated the gun in the games in service menu which was fine and the gun shot where I was aiming.
But when I turned the crosshairs on to try something it was wayyy off to the side.
But the gun was still shooting accurately so that was a bit wierd.
I can only assume the crosshair is relative to the windows mouse and not the calibrated mame mouse?

What about games with built in crosshairs like T2? Does that lag?

Hmm not sure I didnt really spend any time with T2 as its a positional gun game.

Although I didnt really notice any tbh.

Its very noticeable on somthing fast like point blank where you shoot a target on the left, then right and by the time you are on the 3rd target the crosshairs not made it to the 2nd lol

I don't get why you wouldn't showcase a game like T2. That's exactly the type of game that would be significantly improved by something like the Sinden light gun, since you could play the original arcade version like a proper light gun game for the first time. T2 has been ported to home consoles, but always with huge downgrades. Games like Point Blank and Time Crisis already have perfect or near perfect-playing versions on home consoles with the GunCons.  I'm curious as to what's going on with MAME's crosshairs, but at least a game like T2 with its built-in crosshairs should be able to easily demonstrate the technological leap of the Sinden gun.

[KenToad]

This guy does a video and the crosshairs on MAME look pretty wobbly. He also seems to be using the Sinden Lightgun more like a Wiimote.

[Titchgamer]

Hmm I would disagree with T2 being a good showcase.

The thing is with positional gun games like T2 they can be played with anything.
A mouse, a joystick, a keyboard, a lightgun they all control it the same as its basicly expecting only Up/Down/Left/Right inputs for the movements. The accuracy of the gun is really irrelevant as you walk the crosshairs onto the target.

Of course with a lightgun you can move faster but thats about it.

I think games like point blank or Sports shooting etc showcase the guns potential better as it requires pin point accuracy (feather/apple on head etc) , speed and control.

But if you really want to see T2 I am sure I can do that

As for the video you linked its interesting I was talking to the guy who made it yesterday.
Hes actually playing on a 3 screen virtua pin, He was hoping the crosshairs would add something to the video but now thinks the opposite heh.
I personally find them really distracting as I end up concentrating on them instead of the game or my aim.

 

[KenToad]

Well, I was thinking that the built-in crosshairs would quickly track where the Sinden gun was pointing without whatever software issue is causing that lag in the MAME crosshairs.

[Titchgamer]

Well, I was thinking that the built-in crosshairs would quickly track where the Sinden gun was pointing without whatever software issue is causing that lag in the MAME crosshairs.

Hmm well I am not sure its all MAMEs fault tbh, I think a large part of it is the windows mouse speed settings, Obv you dont want to crank em up to lightgun speeds else it would be hard to control heh.

But there is defo somthing odd that mame is doing with the crosshairs.

[Mike A]

I think the Sinden guy should send one to Opt2Not.

He could live stream it on Twitch.

We could make him do combat rolls and ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- while he plays.

[Titchgamer]

I think the Sinden guy should send one to Opt2Not.

He could live stream it on Twitch.

We could make him do combat rolls and ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- while he plays.

Yeah I aint doing that, Ide end up necking myself with the lead or land on my head or something LOL

[Titchgamer]

Well, I was thinking that the built-in crosshairs would quickly track where the Sinden gun was pointing without whatever software issue is causing that lag in the MAME crosshairs.

Just for you They do lag a little on T2 as you will see but its defo worse in some other games.

[Titchgamer]

And here is a quick video of what I was talking about earlier where the cross hairs dont align at all!

Where the shots are landing is where I was aiming, The crosshairs had other ideas!!

[Rockstead]

And here is a quick video of what I was talking about earlier where the cross hairs dont align at all!

Where the shots are landing is where I was aiming, The crosshairs had other ideas!!

So with the Aimtrak’s people needed crosshairs because of the inaccuracy, so now we’re seeing the opposite with the Siden’s? Or is this a learning curve with calibration software or is further development required on the software?

What has Andy’s feedback been on this, I’m sure he must be reviewing your findings.

[Titchgamer]

No I am free to speak mate, I keep saying I am independent lol

But its nothing to do with Andy or the gun/software its obviously a mame thing but its not a issue really as you do t need to play with crosshairs on.

The point of those videos is just to show you cant rely on the mame cross hairs.

I do wonder if thats why people struggled with the AT’s so much?

[Rockstead]

No I am free to speak mate, I keep saying I am independent lol

But its nothing to do with Andy or the gun/software its obviously a mame thing but its not a issue really as you do t need to play with crosshairs on.

The point of those videos is just to show you cant rely on the mame cross hairs.

I do wonder if thats why people struggled with the AT’s so much?

No I hear you, it’s funny to even be talking about crosshairs, like I said it was made a negative for the aimtrak’s so it seems funny to be making the opposite argument for the Sinden’s.

Just to be clear as I’m probably mixing it up, so these crosshairs being turned on are not native to the game? Because then why even look at that.

What about games that have native crosshairs, those wouldn’t be having an issue then right?

I know you’re independent but your obviously very passionate of light guns and providing feedback to Andy shouldn’t be seen as negative.

[Titchgamer]

Well T

No I am free to speak mate, I keep saying I am independent lol

But its nothing to do with Andy or the gun/software its obviously a mame thing but its not a issue really as you do t need to play with crosshairs on.

The point of those videos is just to show you cant rely on the mame cross hairs.

I do wonder if thats why people struggled with the AT’s so much?

No I hear you, it’s funny to even be talking about crosshairs, like I said it was made a negative for the aimtrak’s so it seems funny to be making the opposite argument for the Sinden’s.

Just to be clear as I’m probably mixing it up, so these crosshairs being turned on are not native to the game? Because then why even look at that.

What about games that have native crosshairs, those wouldn’t be having an issue then right?

I know you’re independent but your obviously very passionate of light guns and providing feedback to Andy shouldn’t be seen as negative.

Well T2 has native crosshairs which you can see in the video with the mame ones lagging a second behind. The native crosshairs follow the gun perfectly.

Deer hunter does not have native crosshairs though.

I turned them on purely for demonstration.

[pbj]

Looks about as responsive as a Top Gun from that video.

[Titchgamer]

Looks about as responsive as a Top Gun from that video.

?

[KenToad]

Yeah, my point was to turn off the crosshairs in MAME and show how well you can target things just with the lightgun and the in-game crosshairs that positional games like T2 use. It would also be cool to see if the gun works well for Star Wars Trilogy.

On the calibration screen for Time Crisis 2 on my PS2 using a CRT, after you shoot the center for calibration, the screen continuously tracks and displays where the gun is pointing and the resulting crosshair is slightly wobbly, so I would imagine that that is what we're seeing in the above T2 video. This should mean that all you need to do is disable MAME's crosshair, which is for the best, assuming that you can use the iron sights on the Sinden lightgun.

For the other deer hunter video, did you do the calibration in the actual arcade game? If you didn't, the shots could easily land like that.

[Titchgamer]

Yeah, my point was to turn off the crosshairs in MAME and show how well you can target things just with the lightgun and the in-game crosshairs that positional games like T2 use. It would also be cool to see if the gun works well for Star Wars Trilogy.

On the calibration screen for Time Crisis 2 on my PS2 using a CRT, after you shoot the center for calibration, the screen continuously tracks and displays where the gun is pointing and the resulting crosshair is slightly wobbly, so I would imagine that that is what we're seeing in the above T2 video. This should mean that all you need to do is disable MAME's crosshair, which is for the best, assuming that you can use the iron sights on the Sinden lightgun.

Oh I thought you wanted to see the crosshairs lagging which Is why I turned the crosshairs on.

And yes of course it will always be wobbly I dont have a grip of stone haha, But I normally play without cross hairs as per the other videos I made.

I have not tried star wars trilogy so can not confirm or deny ATM.

But yeah T2 does not really show anything off, I think shooting a apple off a guys head in point blank is a much better show of performance personally and I have played Point Blank and Sportgun with it quite a bit the last few days.

[KenToad]

Yeah, my point was to turn off the crosshairs in MAME and show how well you can target things just with the lightgun and the in-game crosshairs that positional games like T2 use. It would also be cool to see if the gun works well for Star Wars Trilogy.

On the calibration screen for Time Crisis 2 on my PS2 using a CRT, after you shoot the center for calibration, the screen continuously tracks and displays where the gun is pointing and the resulting crosshair is slightly wobbly, so I would imagine that that is what we're seeing in the above T2 video. This should mean that all you need to do is disable MAME's crosshair, which is for the best, assuming that you can use the iron sights on the Sinden lightgun.

Oh I thought you wanted to see the crosshairs lagging which Is why I turned the crosshairs on.

And yes of course it will always be wobbly I dont have a grip of stone haha, But I normally play without cross hairs as per the other videos I made.

I have not tried star wars trilogy so can not confirm or deny ATM.

But yeah T2 does not really show anything off, I think shooting a apple off a guys head in point blank is a much better show of performance personally and I have played Point Blank and Sportgun with it quite a bit the last few days.

I wouldn't call that crosshair lagging. It looks like the Sinden is sending fast updates that are tightly grouped, causing the wobble. Regarding the wobble, put the gun on a stable surface and you'll likely see that it continues, just as it does when you do that with a Guncon 2.

It looks like the accuracy is off. Did you go into the service menus of those arcade games and calibrate the gun (technically just calibrate the crosshair)?

[Titchgamer]

Yeah, my point was to turn off the crosshairs in MAME and show how well you can target things just with the lightgun and the in-game crosshairs that positional games like T2 use. It would also be cool to see if the gun works well for Star Wars Trilogy.

On the calibration screen for Time Crisis 2 on my PS2 using a CRT, after you shoot the center for calibration, the screen continuously tracks and displays where the gun is pointing and the resulting crosshair is slightly wobbly, so I would imagine that that is what we're seeing in the above T2 video. This should mean that all you need to do is disable MAME's crosshair, which is for the best, assuming that you can use the iron sights on the Sinden lightgun.

Oh I thought you wanted to see the crosshairs lagging which Is why I turned the crosshairs on.

And yes of course it will always be wobbly I dont have a grip of stone haha, But I normally play without cross hairs as per the other videos I made.

I have not tried star wars trilogy so can not confirm or deny ATM.

But yeah T2 does not really show anything off, I think shooting a apple off a guys head in point blank is a much better show of performance personally and I have played Point Blank and Sportgun with it quite a bit the last few days.

I wouldn't call that crosshair lagging. It looks like the Sinden is sending fast updates that are tightly grouped, causing the wobble. Regarding the wobble, put the gun on a stable surface and you'll likely see that it continues, just as it does when you do that with a Guncon 2.

It looks like the accuracy is off. Did you go into the service menus of those arcade games and calibrate the gun?

You on about the hunting game now?

No the accuracy is spot on the shots were going exactly where I was aiming.
Its the cross hairs that are off.

Would be nice if Haze can confirm but I suspect the cross hairs are bound to the position of the windows mouse cursor.
But when you calibrate the gun in the games service menu its obv not where the mouse would be pointing.

[KenToad]

No, you need to calibrate the position of the MAME crosshairs. For T2, you go into the calibration screen by turning on the service menu through MAME's tab menu, then choosing calibrate guns, then align the MAME crosshairs with the target crosshairs. If you haven't done that already, that should fix your issue with the crosshairs being off your shots.