Sinden Lightgun Kickstarter date revealed!

[SammyWI]

Here's a random thought: If the Sinden camera can see IR you could potentially put some darker but reflective surface around the bezel and shine some IR lights at it to get a less visible border.

[Rockstead]

I saw this update posted on the FB group Mame Arcade Cabinet Builders, it’s a link to a video of Transformers Human Alliance with a super thin border being played with the Sinden.

Borders don’t bother me but this would be good news if you wanted to play with a really thin border.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=zrYRsFhuHck

[pbj]

This guy has raised $300k and still can't make a decent video.  I would feel a lot more comfortable about this entire thing if he'd get off his ass and play one of these games the way we actually played them in arcades.

[Titchgamer]

This guy has raised $300k and still can't make a decent video.  I would feel a lot more comfortable about this entire thing if he'd get off his ass and play one of these games the way we actually played them in arcades.

What do ya mean exactly?
You mean play with the gun touching the screen (never going to happen) or play with hustle and bustle around you and coke stains on the carpet?

[pbj]

Sitting very still and precisely and slowly moving the gun is very unconvincing.  Did you not move around when you played gun games in the arcade?  Have you ever been to an arcade?

[Titchgamer]

Sitting very still and precisely and slowly moving the gun is very unconvincing.  Did you not move around when you played gun games in the arcade?  Have you ever been to an arcade?

No I dont move around other than my arms lol

With positional guns you physically cant move really and with proper light guns you only ever had a few feet of slack on the cord.

I really dont understand why people get so hung up about the moving around thing.

Like do you play gun games while working out or circuit training or something?
Planning on doing back flips and ducking behind the cabinet when you put your foot on the time crisis pedal?

I mean me personally I just want to chill and enjoy the game like, Preferably while sat on my sofa

But all that aside you can move around and do back flips with this system if you so wish but I would look at you like you had lost ya ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- if I saw you doing that in an arcade lol

In other news relating to the Sinden for those interested the final shell has been approved and is now going to be produced en mass.

The PCB is also in its final form (hopefully) and so after its been tested and approved will also be going into full scale production.
Think that was pretty much the main points from the latest update.

[BadMouth]

I really dont understand why people get so hung up about the moving around thing.

  People aim from the shoulder, not the wrist.

Any gun that doesn't work while playing this way falls short of the old crt gun experience.

Try shooting a real pistol while aiming with your wrist.

[pbj]

BadMouth put it nicer than I did.  Just can’t believe this guy is still releasing the same carefully staged videos.  $300k and he can’t find some chav to hold a camera for him?  This is starting to look like “coinops supports light guns, honest!” round 2.  Are tripods banned over there?

[Titchgamer]

Agreed you aim with your shoulder and as I said the day I tried it you can do that no problem.

But you lot need to remember that when you are sat 6 foot away from a 40” screen you do not need to wildly swing your arms like a mad man to get from one corner to the other.

Infact the movement is probably only 12” give or take.

You have all seen the screen capture I uploaded of the sporting gun game on hard, Trust me I was throwing that gun around but if I had strapped a camera to it all you would see would be blurs!

As I discovered when I tried to record the performance of his prototype its really not easy to film a light gun in a meaningful way to do justice.

I tried to film playing point blank with a camera strapped to the gun and that came out horribly even when I had deliberately slowed my movements and tried to capture meaningful shots.

All ime saying is stop slating the guy and the product because you cant see how far his arms move and because hes playing a game sat comfy like anyone else would want to do while sat at home enjoying themselves.

If you want to make a video bouncing around the living room playing time crisis to show him how its done go for it.

[Titchgamer]

Just to add for shits and giggles I just measured the movement required to get from top left corner to bottom right corner of my area 51 cab at a normal distance and my tv from sofa distance.

A51 cab (22” screen) 11” movement.
Tv (42” @6 feet) 10.5”

Pretty damn close lol

Also bear in mind that the TV is wide screen so if it was displaying a 4:3 game it would be smaller still.

[BadMouth]

Wasn't gonna post it again, but....

[Titchgamer]

Wasn't gonna post it again, but....

Shoot from the shoulder mate you only moving ya arm 2” across my screen!!

[BadMouth]

So it should not be a problem to replicate with the Sinden gun.

I shot that holding a Nokia N95 in one hand and the lact labs gun in the other.

It's not that a light gun we would be satisfies with is not possible.  It is that every gun so far has failed to meet expectations and I question your judgment since you are happy with Aim-traks.

[Titchgamer]

So it should not be a problem to replicate with the Sinden gun.

I shot that holding a Nokia N95 in one hand and the lact labs gun in the other.

It's not that a light gun we would be satisfies with is not possible.  It is that every gun so far has failed to meet expectations and I question your judgment since you are happy with Aim-traks.

Well we tried and it came out ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- lol

I never posted this video (as its shite!) but you can see how much moving around I was doing and bear in mind I was trying to aim through the camera and film at the same time!
(Hence I did ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!)

But compare it to the sports gun video which was a screen capture but filmed using the same gun at the same distance and equally as wild/fast etc but allowed  me to actually aim!

But as you can tell we were “moving from the shoulder” as much as you in your video.
Just because he films his videos without you being able to see how much movement he makes does not mean we sat perfectly still.

Also regarding my judgement I have shot pistol competitively, I know how to shoot!
Plus I have an actual original area 51 cab remember? The fact is once the aim traks are set they are fine unless you move around. No they are not perfect but at the time they were they best out there (exc CRT guns obv) and I had tried them all.

The sinden you can move with, I could move to extreme angles and differing heights and it would still work ok with some minor loss of accuracy (as mentioned previously) but I am told thats now 100%.

Anyways ---smurfy--- uncut video as promised:
*Edit apparently tapatalk wont let me upload videos now so Ile sort somthing on PC later.*

[Titchgamer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

[Zebra]

I'm not to concerned about the quality of the videos because there is literally nothing they could do on-camera that would convince me of their quality or accuracy. We can all take a good selfie. I could easily manipulate a video to make an Aimtrak look accurate but we all know it isn't.

We should just assume it's all lies until we start getting user reviews from members here we trust and that are not profiting from what they say. You guys almost always tell the truth. Sellers always lie.

The far bigger issue right now is "where the f#$k is it???". At this point I already got excited, grew impatient, lost interest and moved on. I have to wonder if he blew his load too early with all those videos so far before he had anything to sell. After all this time, there still isn't a reliable release date. This is why I never pre-order.

[Titchgamer]

I'm not to concerned about the quality of the videos because there is literally nothing they could do on-camera that would convince me of their quality or accuracy. We can all take a good selfie. I could easily manipulate a video to make an Aimtrak look accurate but we all know it isn't.

We should just assume it's all lies until we start getting user reviews from members here we trust and that are not profiting from what they say. You guys almost always tell the truth. Sellers always lie.

The far bigger issue right now is "where the f#$k is it???". At this point I already got excited, grew impatient, lost interest and moved on. I have to wonder if he blew his load too early with all those videos so far before he had anything to sell. After all this time, there still isn't a reliable release date. This is why I never pre-order.

Hope you dont think I am getting anything out of this??
I have no financial interest what so ever for the record.

Well other than the money paid same as everyone else.

As for where the project is at see my previous update.

[BadMouth]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

Shots seem to trail the location of the gun which isn't moving very fast.
This can happen if the gun is seen as a joystick and the sensitivity in MAME isn't adjusted, so it may not be the hardware.

 

We'll see when they make it out into the arcade curmudgeon world.

[Titchgamer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

Shots seem to trail the location of the gun which isn't moving very fast.
This can happen if the gun is seen as a joystick and the sensitivity in MAME isn't adjusted, so it may not be the hardware.

 

We'll see when they make it out into the arcade curmudgeon world.

Think thats more likely the lag of the camera etc tbh.

I noticed no lag with the shots when actually playing.

You can see why I never posted that video though as its total ass and I just couldnt aim through a phone

[Zebra]

I'm not to concerned about the quality of the videos because there is literally nothing they could do on-camera that would convince me of their quality or accuracy. We can all take a good selfie. I could easily manipulate a video to make an Aimtrak look accurate but we all know it isn't.

We should just assume it's all lies until we start getting user reviews from members here we trust and that are not profiting from what they say. You guys almost always tell the truth. Sellers always lie.

The far bigger issue right now is "where the f#$k is it???". At this point I already got excited, grew impatient, lost interest and moved on. I have to wonder if he blew his load too early with all those videos so far before he had anything to sell. After all this time, there still isn't a reliable release date. This is why I never pre-order.

Hope you dont think I am getting anything out of this??
I have no financial interest what so ever for the record.

Well other than the money paid same as everyone else.

As for where the project is at see my previous update.

I wasn't suggesting that you were on the payroll. I trust people here (mostly). It's manufacturer's promotional videos that I don't care for. Similarly, I don't trust the increasingly common sponsored reviews on YouTube where the "reviewer" can't say anything negative (or risk not getting any more products sent to review).

As for updates, they are of little value to me. At this point they sound more like something to pacify people who pre-ordered on Kickstarter. There is only one update that matters. When can people buy an actual product.

Perhaps my perspective is colored by my own experiences with startups. I've been in his shoes with my first startup. I had a great product and a prototype that worked better than the competition's product. In my excitement, I told the market about it and got people excited. I had people nagging me to preorder so I took their money before I was ready. Then I found that a great product means nothing if you can't manufacturer it efficiently and with consistent quality. People waited but eventually I exhausted their patience. I ended up returning their money and moving on with nothing but an expensive lesson.

Anyway, until I can go online and place an order for delivery within the week, there is no light gun to discuss.

[Titchgamer]

I'm not to concerned about the quality of the videos because there is literally nothing they could do on-camera that would convince me of their quality or accuracy. We can all take a good selfie. I could easily manipulate a video to make an Aimtrak look accurate but we all know it isn't.

We should just assume it's all lies until we start getting user reviews from members here we trust and that are not profiting from what they say. You guys almost always tell the truth. Sellers always lie.

The far bigger issue right now is "where the f#$k is it???". At this point I already got excited, grew impatient, lost interest and moved on. I have to wonder if he blew his load too early with all those videos so far before he had anything to sell. After all this time, there still isn't a reliable release date. This is why I never pre-order.

Hope you dont think I am getting anything out of this??
I have no financial interest what so ever for the record.

Well other than the money paid same as everyone else.

As for where the project is at see my previous update.

I wasn't suggesting that you were on the payroll. I trust people here (mostly). It's manufacturer's promotional videos that I don't care for. Similarly, I don't trust the increasingly common sponsored reviews on YouTube where the "reviewer" can't say anything negative (or risk not getting any more products sent to review).

As for updates, they are of little value to me. At this point they sound more like something to pacify people who pre-ordered on Kickstarter. There is only one update that matters. When can people buy an actual product.

Perhaps my perspective is colored by my own experiences with startups. I've been in his shoes with my first startup. I had a great product and a prototype that worked better than the competition's product. In my excitement, I told the market about it and got people excited. I had people nagging me to preorder so I took their money before I was ready. Then I found that a great product means nothing if you can't manufacturer it efficiently and with consistent quality. People waited but eventually I exhausted their patience. I ended up returning their money and moving on with nothing but an expensive lesson.

Anyway, until I can go online and place an order for delivery within the week, there is no light gun to discuss.

Ahh ok yes I agree with you about the YT streamer/reviewer crowd.

There are a few I would deem as trustworthy based on their previous negative reviews etc but most of them as you say are biased.

As for KS campaigns I understand anyone being wary towards them, Personally I have got lucky so far in that all the others I have backed thus far have come through.

Had it not been for getting to meet Andy and have a play with his prototype I would of been more reluctant due to the cost.

But you have to assume some level of risk with anything like this, Its a large project and nobody really expected it to go to the original time scale (they never do!) but he has made good progress and is expecting units to start shipping in Jan/Feb I believe.

I dont think it will be on the shelf for a while though.

In terms of waiting I am still waiting with anticipation for my copy of Kraut Busters to arrive which I am not expecting till new year now

[Zebra]

I see no reason to assume any risk for someone else's business unless I expected a large return. Getting the product is something anyone can do once it is released. Why would I make their teething problems my concern?

I don't have questions about the Sinden guy's intentions. I am fairly sure he's doing his best to deliver what he promised. I just know first hand how difficult and frustrating it is to get parts made in China with consistently acceptable quality. It's a nightmare. There as difference in business culture that makes it hard to get so much a straight answer. Until it's available to buy, it's just an idea we may or may not ever see.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he does succeed. I'm a light gun fanatic and anything that breathes life back into the genre is a good thing. There is no incentive for the current offerings to improve until there is competition. The EMS Topgun has been out for years. It's the only flatscreen gun to work with a PS2 and they can't even be bothered to fix their drivers. And, the Aimtrak is apparently the best it could ever be...

[Titchgamer]

I see no reason to assume any risk for someone else's business unless I expected a large return. Getting the product is something anyone can do once it is released. Why would I make their teething problems my concern?

I don't have questions about the Sinden guy's intentions. I am fairly sure he's doing his best to deliver what he promised. I just know first hand how difficult and frustrating it is to get parts made in China with consistently acceptable quality. It's a nightmare. There as difference in business culture that makes it hard to get so much a straight answer. Until it's available to buy, it's just an idea we may or may not ever see.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he does succeed. I'm a light gun fanatic and anything that breathes life back into the genre is a good thing. There is no incentive for the current offerings to improve until there is competition. The EMS Topgun has been out for years. It's the only flatscreen gun to work with a PS2 and they can't even be bothered to fix their drivers. And, the Aimtrak is apparently the best it could ever be...

The problem is with crowd funding etc many of these inventions would never see the light of day.

Dont get me wrong some should never see the light of day lol but that is what it is.

I believe the shells are being manufactured here in the UK.
But I think the PCB’s are being made over seas?

[jubiladoatope]

Thanks for the new info Titchgamer!
In regards to your discussion,The gun looks good to me,but obviously once more people have it we will know it for sure

[lettuce]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

Can the game screen not be scaled down slightly so the white border doesnt cover up any of the game screen? (like the number of credits)

[Titchgamer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

Can the game screen not be scaled down slightly so the white border doesnt cover up any of the game screen? (like the number of credits)

It could yes.

[jubiladoatope]

So how´s everything going? Any new update?

[Titchgamer]

So how´s everything going? Any new update?

Nothing atm.

[jubiladoatope]

Ok thanks, I wonder how many months left until he starts selling the lightguns to non kickstarters .

[lettuce]

So how´s everything going? Any new update?

Nothing atm.

Was hoping us backers would of got it before xmas what with being in the UK....but no chance of that now 

[Titchgamer]

So how´s everything going? Any new update?

Nothing atm.

Was hoping us backers would of got it before xmas what with being in the UK....but no chance of that now 

Nah he said a few months ago it would be a few months yet.

[pbawesome]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

Can you comment on the lag?  I expect lag when he's loading up games from a Raspberry Pi, but clearly that was a Windows Laptop running Mame.  You can hear the gun firing and maybe see the bullet half a second later which is pretty high.

Can't wait for production, but hopefully Andy irons out the lag

[Titchgamer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zOhtudhmoJ9OJOaHxDTKcV_L_OQjgdbJ/view?usp=drivesdk

Dont bother with the last 30 secs lol

Can you comment on the lag?  I expect lag when he's loading up games from a Raspberry Pi, but clearly that was a Windows Laptop running Mame.  You can hear the gun firing and maybe see the bullet half a second later which is pretty high.

Can't wait for production, but hopefully Andy irons out the lag

There was no real time lag, Its what was introduced by the phone I think.

This video was never meant to see the light of day as it jus was not good enough heh.

For a better idea of performance look at the screen capture video I posted up using demul that was the same laptop/tv etc but recorded at source.

[Rockstead]

Titchgamer,

Quick question, does the recoil model require any additional power source or is it just one USB port that connects and powers the gun at the same time?

[Titchgamer]

Titchgamer,

Quick question, does the recoil model require any additional power source or is it just one USB port that connects and powers the gun at the same time?

Dont know sorry that was not implemented when I got to play with it.

But I know Andy was looking to make it work over the USB.

[jubiladoatope]

Hey Titchgamer I see there is a new update could you tell us what it is please? 

[Titchgamer]

Hey Titchgamer I see there is a new update could you tell us what it is please? 

In a nut shell its a revised timeline.

He is planning on shipping all units within the next 3 months.
But depending on if the recoil is ready or not he will ship the recoil upgrade separate as its a easy install apparently.

Although most comments I have seen have told him to wait and ship it all together so that may change.

[jubiladoatope]

Hey Titchgamer I see there is a new update could you tell us what it is please? 

In a nut shell its a revised timeline.

He is planning on shipping all units within the next 3 months.
But depending on if the recoil is ready or not he will ship the recoil upgrade separate as its a easy install apparently.

Although most comments I have seen have told him to wait and ship it all together so that may change.

Ok thank you

[Rockstead]

Hi, seems there was an update to backers posted on Feb 14th, related to the Coronavirus. I’m guessing that equates to a delay, would be curious to hear it please.

Thanks

[Titchgamer]

Yeah the PCB factory has been affected but not sure of the severity of the delay atm.
Said he will update once known.

Other than that everything is on track and a developer is making a game especially for the Sinden which all backers will get a free copy of so thats cool