Could the Arcade 1up thing have been succesful if handled differently?

[Zebra]

At this point the jury is pretty much out with this product. There was a lot of initial excitement and buzz but poor implementation seems to have killed off any enthusiasm. Now they are relegated to the bargain bins of history...

It would be easy to conclude "there was no real market for it" but I can't help thinking that, in the hands of a real gamer, it had potential.

For me, the problem started with poor game choice. We could all play better versions of pacman and SF2 in mame for free. But... if they can secure licenses for SF2 and Pacman, surely they could have gotten Ridge Racer, Daytona, Star Wars Trilogy, T2 and other dedicated arcades. Ones where they could have added value with decent controls. Value above and beyond mame.

I might have been persuaded to part with cash for a pair of 3/4 or 2/3 size Daytona cabs that could be linked for head to head play... Or some Star Wars cabs with a real analog yoke wheel stick thingy.

What do you guys think? Potential for the idea or was it always doomed to fail?

[leapinlew]

At this point the jury is pretty much out with this product. There was a lot of initial excitement and buzz but poor implementation seems to have killed off any enthusiasm. Now they are relegated to the bargain bins of history...

It would be easy to conclude "there was no real market for it" but I can't help thinking that, in the hands of a real gamer, it had potential.

For me, the problem started with poor game choice. We could all play better versions of pacman and SF2 in mame for free. But... if they can secure licenses for SF2 and Pacman, surely they could have gotten Ridge Racer, Daytona, Star Wars Trilogy, T2 and other dedicated arcades. Ones where they could have added value with decent controls. Value above and beyond mame.

I might have been persuaded to part with cash for a pair of 3/4 or 2/3 size Daytona cabs that could be linked for head to head play... Or some Star Wars cabs with a real analog yoke wheel stick thingy.

What do you guys think? Potential for the idea or was it always doomed to fail?

I think you might be a bit premature in concluding they are a failure, but I will agree that they may be destined for the bargain bin. Once price points were established much lower than the MSRP of $299, I'm sure that influenced more people than anything else. That being said, I see tons of content customers who are happy to finally have an arcade experience that resembles what they remember.

I think if you are a BYOAC'er, you would have a more difficult time trying to understand where these cabinets fit in. The things you want are not easily achievable in a budget cabinet. A real analog yoke in a $300 cab? Yeah, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

[Howard_Casto]

You seem to have gotten some bad information somewhere.  Even though they probably made too many of the initial run, they sold well, or at least well enough to warrant a bunch of new cabs to be released this year.  Yes many people in this forum have lost their enthusiasm, but the public in general hasn't.  Facebook groups and such are still a buzz with modding info and upgrades, ect. 

What you are talking about would be financially impossible.  Thrustmaster and Logitech charge 100 minimum for a mostly plastic pc wheel... much more if you want force feedback and a better build quality.  Now imagine that coupled with a cabinet and a pc on a chip powerful enough to emulate model 2 stuff like Daytona USA.  It'd be cheaper to go find a real cab and buy it. 

[ark_ader]

What I have found is, themed products are very specific (duh) and require a special person or an impulse buy to shift it.  I like good old plain, add whatever artwork and controls, just don't make it too complicated.  Also for you CNC guys wanting a new idea.  Enclosed cockpits.  These are really hard to come by, especially those who like to game without interference from others or disturbance to the missus or the household.

Selling a inexpensive Elite Dangerous/FSX/Console cockpit (with adequate airflow) that is plain in nature would be a better bet.  They could do whatever in there and keep cables displays and computers in a nice tidy lockable environment.  The only negative is if you are claustrophobic.  You need something that can be practicable and private.  Arcade machines for the masses has been exhausted.   Having a flat pack cockpit design that can be adapted to arcade cockpit design like Star Wars or Star Trek is the next big thing IMO.

[leapinlew]

If we remove the "this company is a failure" tone from the original question, the few things that come to mind for improvement are:

• Control panel artwork - this is a major QC issue. It should have never happened. all new cabinets should come with deck protectors
• The warranty on the cabinet should be longer than 90 days
• Build in wifi features and a leader board so you can see how you rank.
• Figure out a way to save high scores
• Make the risers look less like a boot and allow them to be installed by connecting through the base, not by drilling through the sides of the game
• The back panel shouldn't have be secured by using screws into MDF. It should use a lock/cam system similar to the rest of the cabinet
• Build a strong 3rd party market of upgrades: lit marquees, upgraded controls, LED lighting, etc.

[keilmillerjr]

Forget about the games. A cheap multi board or pi could solve that. I’d buy one for my kids if it wasn’t a cheap piece of cr@p. I’d rather spend a little extra for a bartop or cocktail kit from a vendor on byoac. It would cost me maybe $100 more for a way better product.

Walmart is trying hard to get rid of them. Consumers too. I think it made its holiday money and is done. A slightly better product would still be selling on a normal schedule.

[leapinlew]

Forget about the games. A cheap multi board or pi could solve that. I’d buy one for my kids if it wasn’t a cheap piece of cr@p. I’d rather spend a little extra for a bartop or cocktail kit from a vendor on byoac. It would cost me maybe $100 more for a way better product.

Walmart is trying hard to get rid of them. Consumers too. I think it made its holiday money and is done. A slightly better product would still be selling on a normal schedule.

Would love to see this $400 cocktail cabinet fully configured and ready to go.

[keilmillerjr]

Forget about the games. A cheap multi board or pi could solve that. I’d buy one for my kids if it wasn’t a cheap piece of cr@p. I’d rather spend a little extra for a bartop or cocktail kit from a vendor on byoac. It would cost me maybe $100 more for a way better product.

Walmart is trying hard to get rid of them. Consumers too. I think it made its holiday money and is done. A slightly better product would still be selling on a normal schedule.

Would love to see this $400 cocktail cabinet fully configured and ready to go.

I didn’t say fully configured and ready to go. But for $100 more than the msrp on the 1up, I’d be at the same point in a hypothetical build.

What if they made something like the neo geo mini? 🤔 (not the new pos mini, the actual cabinet)

[Zebra]

Forget about the games. A cheap multi board or pi could solve that. I’d buy one for my kids if it wasn’t a cheap piece of cr@p. I’d rather spend a little extra for a bartop or cocktail kit from a vendor on byoac. It would cost me maybe $100 more for a way better product.

Walmart is trying hard to get rid of them. Consumers too. I think it made its holiday money and is done. A slightly better product would still be selling on a normal schedule.

That is a fair point on the games. Maybe an empty cabinet with various options for switchable control panels would be better.

I agree with you that succesful products don't go to the bargain bin so quickly. That happens for one reason and one reason only. They didn't sell as well as expected leaving stores with product they could not sell. They don't need to discount succesful products (at least not in the first year).

[Zebra]

What I have found is, themed products are very specific (duh) and require a special person or an impulse buy to shift it.  I like good old plain, add whatever artwork and controls, just don't make it too complicated.  Also for you CNC guys wanting a new idea.  Enclosed cockpits.  These are really hard to come by, especially those who like to game without interference from others or disturbance to the missus or the household.

Selling a inexpensive Elite Dangerous/FSX/Console cockpit (with adequate airflow) that is plain in nature would be a better bet.  They could do whatever in there and keep cables displays and computers in a nice tidy lockable environment.  The only negative is if you are claustrophobic.  You need something that can be practicable and private.  Arcade machines for the masses has been exhausted.   Having a flat pack cockpit design that can be adapted to arcade cockpit design like Star Wars or Star Trek is the next big thing IMO.

You would need an enormous CNC machine to make a fully enclosed cockpit. Your average 3 axis CNC router is limited to approx 3" depth of cut.

You'd need to use an enormous industrial 5 axis machine like they use to make foam mold plugs for the automotive industry. They would be more likely to use an injection molding process like they do for those pod chairs. But, given what happened with the current 1ups, I doubt anyone is rushing to invest in tooling for cockpit pods.

Incidentally, if you are looking for a more emersive pod-like experience, it might just be easier to start with a pod chair. I have one in my basement. They are sound-proofed inside and quite relaxing to sit in. I kept it to use in an arcade project one day.

[Malenko]

Another A1up thread? Why?

If we remove the "this company is a failure" tone from the original question, the few things that come to mind for improvement are:

• Control panel artwork - this is a major QC issue. It should have never happened. all new cabinets should come with deck protectors
• The warranty on the cabinet should be longer than 90 days
• Build in wifi features and a leader board so you can see how you rank.
• Figure out a way to save high scores
• Make the risers look less like a boot and allow them to be installed by connecting through the base, not by drilling through the sides of the game
• The back panel shouldn't have be secured by using screws into MDF. It should use a lock/cam system similar to the rest of the cabinet
• Build a strong 3rd party market of upgrades: lit marquees, upgraded controls, LED lighting, etc.

plastic is fine, Polycarb would be better.
Meh. If the build quality was better this wouldnt be an issue at all.
No. Useless.
Yes.
Agreed.
Indifferent.
The controls should be better from the factory. There's already a modding community for these things, not sure what A1U could do to improve upon it.  I suppose they cant make them too moddable or they might violate their toy licensing agreement.

[JDFan]

As far as Tastemakers is concerned these were a very successful product - and the plans for the future show they are still thinking it will be going forward ( new bartops, wall hangers, new cabinets planned for 2019 in addition to the add on products they have planned ) - They sold a lot more of these than they had initially thought they would and have made a good amount of profit on the line.( The discounts retailers offered didn't effect tastemakers since they already made their wholesale sale.)  They have said it is already a 9 figure sales product for their company which can't really be called a failure !

[yotsuya]

As far as Tastemakers is concerned these were a very successful product - and the plans for the future show they are still thinking it will be going forward ( new bartops, wall hangers, new cabinets planned for 2019 in addition to the add on products they have planned ) - They sold a lot more of these than they had initially thought they would and have made a good amount of profit on the line.( The discounts retailers offered didn't effect tastemakers since they already made their wholesale sale.)  They have said it is already a 9 figure sales product for their company which can't really be called a failure !

Nine figures is $100,000,000, or a hundred million dollars. I have a very hard time believing that figure.

[Howard_Casto]

Ok let's do a bit of math to find out.  Let's say that they charged retailers $200 bucks a pop for these things.  That'd be half a million they need to sell.  There are 6363 Walmarts in the US and let's just assume that each one bought an average of 10 units.  That means they probably sold about 64,000 units to walmart.  They probably sold around the same to each retailer, so it's possible, but man that sounds like a stretch.  If they sold em for $300 a piece it would be about right, but that means that walmart and all of these places were losing money every time they marked them down to 200 and not making a dime when they were 300 (which has been practically the whole time they've been on sale).  That sounds unlikely. 

[Yenome]

MSRP for arcade1up is 399 Walmart listed them for 299 and everyone else followed suit.

[Malenko]

Nine figures is $100,000,000, or a hundred million dollars. I have a very hard time believing that figure.

They must be finessing the numbers saying they sold 250,000 products worth $400 MSRP. Those are the only sane numbers I can come up with and that's factoring in that Rew bought a crate of them.
That or they include the 2 numbers after the decimal point as part of the 9 figures.

[JDFan]

Ok let's do a bit of math to find out.  Let's say that they charged retailers $200 bucks a pop for these things.  That'd be half a million they need to sell.  There are 6363 Walmarts in the US and let's just assume that each one bought an average of 10 units.  That means they probably sold about 64,000 units to walmart.  They probably sold around the same to each retailer, so it's possible, but man that sounds like a stretch.  If they sold em for $300 a piece it would be about right, but that means that walmart and all of these places were losing money every time they marked them down to 200 and not making a dime when they were 300 (which has been practically the whole time they've been on sale).  That sounds unlikely.

10 per store sounds low - figure for Black Friday the stores near here had 20 - 30 of the Pacman and Galaga cabs and at least a couple of each of the other offerings (SF, Rampage,Asteroids,Centipede)

Here is the video where the President and CEO Scott Bachrach mentions it being a 9 figure business for them at 04:50 - 05:10 ( )

[Howard_Casto]

10 per store sounds low - figure for Black Friday the stores near here had 20 - 30 of the Pacman and Galaga cabs and at least a couple of each of the other offerings (SF, Rampage,Asteroids,Centipede)

Here is the video where the President and CEO Scott Bachrach mentions it being a 9 figure business for them at 04:50 - 05:10 ( )

It might sound low if you are in an area with a large population and assume that all Walmarts keep the same amount of inventory as yours, but I assure you they don't.  Our Southridge location (aka the "big" Walmart) got 30 or more in, but all the surrounding ones got 5 or less.  10 is about right by my guesstimates.  It might be a little more or a little less, but I think it's in the ballpark. 


You can't go by presentations.... they always "upsell" the product to lure in investors.

[Malenko]

Definitely a marketing guy, spewing all the buzzwords he can think of.

[Haze]

surely they could have gotten Ridge Racer, Daytona, Star Wars Trilogy

That would also have meant using less ---smurfy--- hardware, or actually porting the games, using existing ports of the games, or making an effort with their emulator licensing.

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

At least the electronics and software side of thing was clearly done at the lowest possible cost, like the majority of these products.  From what has been said elsewhere the rest wasn't much better.

Minimize costs, maximize profit, don't really care about the actual product.  That's all I get from everything I've read about these; they probably spent more on trying to hide what they were doing / make things awkward for people hacking them.  Games with actual system requirements were never on the cards, regardless of if they could get licenses or not.

[yotsuya]

Well, these are the same dudes that claim the cabs are 3/4 scale, so we know they’re not good at the maths....

[leapinlew]

Well, these are the same dudes that claim the cabs are 3/4 scale, so we know they’re not good at the maths....

What's the deal with that you think? You think they were measuring a small cabinet, or a cabaret to their cabinet with a riser?

FWIW, it's ok on a riser.

[ark_ader]

What I have found is, themed products are very specific (duh) and require a special person or an impulse buy to shift it.  I like good old plain, add whatever artwork and controls, just don't make it too complicated.  Also for you CNC guys wanting a new idea.  Enclosed cockpits.  These are really hard to come by, especially those who like to game without interference from others or disturbance to the missus or the household.

Selling a inexpensive Elite Dangerous/FSX/Console cockpit (with adequate airflow) that is plain in nature would be a better bet.  They could do whatever in there and keep cables displays and computers in a nice tidy lockable environment.  The only negative is if you are claustrophobic.  You need something that can be practicable and private.  Arcade machines for the masses has been exhausted.   Having a flat pack cockpit design that can be adapted to arcade cockpit design like Star Wars or Star Trek is the next big thing IMO.

You would need an enormous CNC machine to make a fully enclosed cockpit. Your average 3 axis CNC router is limited to approx 3" depth of cut.

You'd need to use an enormous industrial 5 axis machine like they use to make foam mold plugs for the automotive industry. They would be more likely to use an injection molding process like they do for those pod chairs. But, given what happened with the current 1ups, I doubt anyone is rushing to invest in tooling for cockpit pods.

Incidentally, if you are looking for a more emersive pod-like experience, it might just be easier to start with a pod chair. I have one in my basement. They are sound-proofed inside and quite relaxing to sit in. I kept it to use in an arcade project one day.

I can see where you are going with that but the examples are just that.  Look at the firefox sitdown cabinet.  Not much there to mill out.  I could probably make the shell with just a saw a piece of string and 50p.

[yotsuya]

Well, these are the same dudes that claim the cabs are 3/4 scale, so we know they’re not good at the maths....

What's the deal with that you think? You think they were measuring a small cabinet, or a cabaret to their cabinet with a riser?

FWIW, it's ok on a riser.

Like Malenko said, it’s just marketing talk. Most people aren’t going to know whether it’s really 3/4 scale or not.

I think they basically thought “ok, on a riser, the control panel is the same height as a real cab”, and they ran with that. That doesn’t mean the rest of it is to scale. I don’t think they really cared about the accuracy of the statement because really, besides salty old farts like us, who’s going to know better?

[leapinlew]

The 3:4 scale thing is just a mess. The monitor is bigger than 3:4 scale. The controls are full size. They must be talking height on a riser.

[ark_ader]

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

[opt2not]

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

[Haze]

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

So desperate to troll that you can't even be bothered to read the post.  I said they couldn't be bothered to use hardware capable of running a MAME version they were entitled to use.  They cheaped out and did it the illegal way.

WHY hasn't saint banned you yet I don't know, you contribute absolutely nothing useful to this forum, and are probably one of the reasons it's in decline.

[Zebra]

As far as Tastemakers is concerned these were a very successful product - and the plans for the future show they are still thinking it will be going forward ( new bartops, wall hangers, new cabinets planned for 2019 in addition to the add on products they have planned ) - They sold a lot more of these than they had initially thought they would and have made a good amount of profit on the line.( The discounts retailers offered didn't effect tastemakers since they already made their wholesale sale.)  They have said it is already a 9 figure sales product for their company which can't really be called a failure !

That does not make sense. Selling more than expected would = stock shortages and prices holding or being sold above the recommended price. Selling less than expected = discounts and stock dumping from the bargain bin.

That is.... unless you think they planned to produce far more than they could sell with the intention of leaving tons of excess inventory to be sold from bargain bins... I.e., they planned to fail as that is the only way to consider it a success.

When Steve Jobs first released the Ipad, did he start discounting it within months of it going on sale? No... because it was successful and prices held for years. If he would have said "$600.... ok $550..... ok, ok $450 but not 1 cent lower..... alright $350 but that's my limit.... ok how about $300.....", that would have indicated a problem with sales...

The fact that the manufacturer is looking to release other products, to me, sounds more like they have realized what other arcade sellers have known for a while: that most people will not buy anything big.

[JDFan]

As far as Tastemakers is concerned these were a very successful product - and the plans for the future show they are still thinking it will be going forward ( new bartops, wall hangers, new cabinets planned for 2019 in addition to the add on products they have planned ) - They sold a lot more of these than they had initially thought they would and have made a good amount of profit on the line.( The discounts retailers offered didn't effect tastemakers since they already made their wholesale sale.)  They have said it is already a 9 figure sales product for their company which can't really be called a failure !

That does not make sense. Selling more than expected would = stock shortages and prices holding or being sold above the recommended price. Selling less than expected = discounts and stock dumping from the bargain bin.

That is.... unless you think they planned to produce far more than they could sell with the intention of leaving tons of excess inventory to be sold from bargain bins... I.e., they planned to fail as that is the only way to consider it a success.

When Steve Jobs first released the Ipad, did he start discounting it within months of it going on sale? No... because it was successful and prices held for years. If he would have said "$600.... ok $550..... ok, ok $450 but not 1 cent lower..... alright $350 but that's my limit.... ok how about $300.....", that would have indicated a problem with sales...

The fact that the manufacturer is looking to release other products, to me, sounds more like they have realized what other arcade sellers have known for a while: that most people will not buy anything big.

At 05:20 of this interview video ( ) the CEO of Tastemakers mentions that at first they figured if they sold 5 or 10K units the product would be a success.

    So they were not initially planning for the level of sales it opened with and that is part of why if you remember the initial retail launch was delayed by over a month to ramp up production - as preorders had depleted the initial supply - then they ramped up production and the problems with them once they got into consumer hands made the demand drop some - so they had a larger supply and dropping demand which resulted in the retailers dropping the price ( but again those price drops did not effect Tastemakers since they merely wholesale the product to the retailers ! ) - So as far as tastemakers is concerned it was more of a success than they had initially expected.

[Mike A]

Companies do not consider it a success if they can jam retailers with a ton of units. Getting the final product into the hands of consumers at the right price is what matters. If retailers get hosed because they have to heavily discount a product they will not likely make that mistake again. WalMart will demand lower pricing next time, or scale back orders, or pass completely. It all depends on how much money is being made or lost.

The price drops affect Tastemakers. It damages their ability to get the price they want for their products in the future.

[Osirus23]

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

So desperate to troll that you can't even be bothered to read the post.  I said they couldn't be bothered to use hardware capable of running a MAME version they were entitled to use.  They cheaped out and did it the illegal way.

WHY hasn't saint banned you yet I don't know, you contribute absolutely nothing useful to this forum, and are probably one of the reasons it's in decline.

So when is the legal action against A1Up going to move past the "complain about it on forums" phase?

[DrakeTungsten]

If only success were measured in the number of posts generated at BYOC, these things would be a hit.

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

So desperate to troll that you can't even be bothered to read the post.  I said they couldn't be bothered to use hardware capable of running a MAME version they were entitled to use.  They cheaped out and did it the illegal way.

WHY hasn't saint banned you yet I don't know, you contribute absolutely nothing useful to this forum, and are probably one of the reasons it's in decline.

So when is the legal action against A1Up going to move past the "complain about it on forums" phase?

If you're trying to insinuate something, it's lost on this casual observer. If not, why do you care so much that you have to keep repeating this? It can't just be a general distaste for complaining, otherwise you'd be making similar comments in half the other threads around here. It might be time to give it a rest.

[Ian]

Now they are relegated to the bargain bins of history...

Really? because they did well enough to release a second wave of new games.

[Zebra]

surely they could have gotten Ridge Racer, Daytona, Star Wars Trilogy

That would also have meant using less ---smurfy--- hardware, or actually porting the games, using existing ports of the games, or making an effort with their emulator licensing.

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

At least the electronics and software side of thing was clearly done at the lowest possible cost, like the majority of these products.  From what has been said elsewhere the rest wasn't much better.

Minimize costs, maximize profit, don't really care about the actual product.  That's all I get from everything I've read about these; they probably spent more on trying to hide what they were doing / make things awkward for people hacking them.  Games with actual system requirements were never on the cards, regardless of if they could get licenses or not.

It's true what you said about them choosing poor hardware for what they released but the question is really about whether the idea has more potential if they hadn't made those questionable decisions on hardware and quality?

My personal belief is that the market can stand a higher price for a genuinely high quality product but that not price is low enough for garbage.

For years people said there was no market for expensive arcade quality peripherals but brands like Logitech challenged this. Now, my local Best Buy (as mainstream as it gets) is selling $400 force feedback wheels for the PS4. They seem to regularly sell out too...

I can see a market for a pair of force feedback Daytona bartops. It's value above and beyond a PI 3 mame set-up.There is a large number of arcade games where the experience can never be properly replicated without the right controls.

[Zebra]

Companies do not consider it a success if they can jam retailers with a ton of units. Getting the final product into the hands of consumers at the right price is what matters. If retailers get hosed because they have to heavily discount a product they will not likely make that mistake again. WalMart will demand lower pricing next time, or scale back orders, or pass completely. It all depends on how much money is being made or lost.

The price drops affect Tastemakers. It damages their ability to get the price they want for their products in the future.

Exactly right.

Business success is based on long term sustainable profitability with continuous growth.

It may be too early for anyone to declare absolute success or failiure but we can make early observations based on discounting and excess stock etc.

Maybe they will take what they learned from round 1 and general feedback to make a better and more desirable product for phase 2. I'm not hopeful though, unless they aim higher.

[leapinlew]

It may be too early for anyone to declare absolute success or failiure but we can make early observations based on discounting and excess stock etc.

Maybe they will take what they learned from round 1 and general feedback to make a better and more desirable product for phase 2. I'm not hopeful though, unless they aim higher.

You didn't seem to have a problem declaring it wasn't successful.

I don't want to try to defend them as a success or failure. I will say the target audience for these isn't the folks at BYOAC. Join their facebook group and you'll hear plenty of people who were nervous to assemble the screwdriver only units and you'll find tons of happy customers reliving their youth. Pretty sure you'll mostly get gripes about inaccuracies and flaws here.

I do think the pricing strategy that Wal-mart chose was odd. It wasn't just a price drop. In most cases it was a price drop, and then raise back to full price, rinse and repeat. Some stores were clearing them out and stores within a few mile radius were at full price. I don't track items this closely, so I don't know if it is normal or not.

So, they weren't instantly "relegated to the bargain bins of history..." as you say, but they did go through price drops very shortly after black friday in some locations. In the ones I sold, I wasn't able to get more than 50% for one. I think the public feels the price point for these is $150.

[ark_ader]

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

So desperate to troll that you can't even be bothered to read the post.  I said they couldn't be bothered to use hardware capable of running a MAME version they were entitled to use.  They cheaped out and did it the illegal way.

WHY hasn't saint banned you yet I don't know, you contribute absolutely nothing useful to this forum, and are probably one of the reasons it's in decline.

You probably think this is Mameworld, which is in decline, and yet you make unsubstantiated and blatant statements which you use (in a troll'esque method yourself) against a product that is successful.  If you are so inclined to believe that the 1Up guys used software illegally, which you alone did not create, why are they not in court?   In my opinion, they are making big bucks off all your hard work, just like the X-in 1 guys.  Good for them. 

The reason I post the way I did, is because you are wrong in your approach to the issue, and have gone past the point of no return in your comments.  Your behaviour is typical from previous posts and the reason why YOU GOT BANNED from Mameworld.  A coordinator and developer being banned from a forum because of some preventable and unforgettable behaviour, and I see nothing has changed since. I forgive you though.

Everyone knows I can be a cad, and that is their opinion, just like yours unfortunately.  I just call it as I see it.  It appears I am not alone in that thought.

p.s.

David, please be careful what you post online in forums.  Making statements such as yours in haste could land you into hot water.  Posting online is like posting in a newspaper.  I don't think the 1up guys did anything illegal, and your comments can hurt their future sales.  I can understand your anger, but consider this: new audiences are enjoying the games you helped bring back to life, and this was the goal of MAME as a nice side effect.  Remember?

[opt2not]

They apparently couldn't even be bothered to use hardware good enough to use a version of MAME they were legally entitled to use, for basic games that weren't even overly demanding.

Oh they are legal now, are they?

You should draft a letter to the 1up crew and apologise for your unprofessional behaviour, on this forum and Mameworld.

So desperate to troll that you can't even be bothered to read the post.  I said they couldn't be bothered to use hardware capable of running a MAME version they were entitled to use.  They cheaped out and did it the illegal way.

WHY hasn't saint banned you yet I don't know, you contribute absolutely nothing useful to this forum, and are probably one of the reasons it's in decline.

You probably think this is Mameworld, which is in decline, and yet you make unsubstantiated and blatant statements which you use (in a troll'esque method yourself) against a product that is successful.  If you are so inclined to believe that the 1Up guys used software illegally, which you alone did not create, why are they not in court?   In my opinion, they are making big bucks off all your hard work, just like the X-in 1 guys.  Good for them. 

The reason I post the way I did, is because you are wrong in your approach to the issue, and have gone past the point of no return in your comments.  Your behaviour is typical from previous posts and the reason why YOU GOT BANNED from Mameworld.  A coordinator and developer being banned from a forum because of some preventable and unforgettable behaviour, and I see nothing has changed since. I forgive you though.

Everyone knows I can be a cad, and that is their opinion, just like yours unfortunately.  I just call it as I see it.  It appears I am not alone in that thought.

p.s.

David, please be careful what you post online in forums.  Making statements such as yours in haste could land you into hot water.  Posting online is like posting in a newspaper.  I don't think the 1up guys did anything illegal, and your comments can hurt their future sales.  I can understand your anger, but consider this: new audiences are enjoying the games you helped bring back to life, and this was the goal of MAME as a nice side effect.  Remember?

[lilshawn]

back on track....


less ikea flatpack.

more actual thought into proper construction. The machine is very hard to construct out of the box as strong, stable, unit. if you woodglue and or construction adhesive it together, it's not too bad... but it shouldn't be wobbly out the box.

the 3/4 size killed it. having to put it on a pedestal (at an additional cost i might add) to put it on... to get it to "not midget" height was not a good idea. while great for kids... this unit was not aimed at the 13 and under. TBH, 13 and under could care less about pacman... it's the 30-45 year olds they are/should have been targeting... and they aren't 4 foot.

the cabinet should have been designed in a way to have it full, proper playable height from the getgo. even if it meant making a bigger box to ship/sell it in, or designing the cabinet in 2 parts. hell, make it part of the design.

I have seen 100:1 threads of people making this machine into something OTHER than what the manufacturer sold it as, that tells you they did it wrong.

[Howard_Casto]

As others have stated, I'm beginning to think that the "3/4" size has more to do with licensing and legal issues than anything.  Take pac-man for example....  they still put pac-man on brand new arcade cabinets and I'm guessing someone purchased the license to make them rather than Namco doing it themselves.  That means that said license is taken...for an arcade machine.... now for a toy on the other hand....that's fair game.  You'd be amazed how companies jump through hoops to work around certain legal restrictions. 

[yotsuya]

As others have stated, I'm beginning to think that the "3/4" size has more to do with licensing and legal issues than anything.  Take pac-man for example....  they still put pac-man on brand new arcade cabinets and I'm guessing someone purchased the license to make them rather than Namco doing it themselves.  That means that said license is taken...for an arcade machine.... now for a toy on the other hand....that's fair game.  You'd be amazed how companies jump through hoops to work around certain legal restrictions.

[MikeyJ122]

 I would call them a failure, quite the opposite really... I would say they are a huge success, at least finicially. That doesnt mean I support them, but I dont hate them either.

As I've said in other threads, the biggest "issue" I have with arcade 1ups is the fan base itself. Why? Because I really dont understand it, it just doesnt make sense to me. Let me elaborate...

I have been following the arcade 1up community rather closely (I watch youtubers that only talk about them and am in the FB group). They have developed a "us vs them" approach, perhaps MAME builders have propagated that as well?

Anyways, I just watch a video where one of these arcade 1 up youtubers bought a gameroom solutions kit. He actually really liked it and called it a "level up from arcade 1 up." He would NOT say it was better than arcade 1 up, but you could tell he liked it better. He just said things like "both are really good options." In the comment section though... I read TONS of comments like this "I like arcade 1 up better" "I'll only buy arcade 1 up" etc. So they have developed a pretty loyal fanbase, and that's what I dont understand? For casual gamers, sure I get it. But for people to buy ALL of them, mod them, etc. You are spending a lot of money for an inferior product. You can buy a kit for the same price, and itll be WAY better. That's what I dont understand.

[Osirus23]

They do have a bizarre cult following. The first time I saw one in person I would have done a spit-take had I been drinking something when I saw how tiny they were.

[Gilrock]

Unfortunately it seems like any time a product comes out commercially the quality is sacrificed for cost and/or they get crushed by trying to compete with Chinese knockoffs.  I saw it happen a few times in my other hobby of Christmas lighting.  I met a guy at an Expo that had a product that let people put a series of smart leds on tree and the sequencing was delivered over Bluetooth and he had a patent for his idea.  You can see his stuff at geekmytree.com.  I know he was featured on Shark Tank but I can't remember if he got backing or not.  Anyways once he expanded commercially to keep the cost down they switched from smart pixels to dumb pixels so instead of every pixel being controllable it ended up with the entire string had to be one color so only one control chip at the top of each string to save on parts cost.  Then he started getting hit with lawsuits from patent trolls claiming they had rights to simple aspects of the design like using data commands to turn on an LED.  He ended up going out of business.  The DIY community was disappointed in the product because after switching to dumb pixels they were not as useful for hacking purposes.  Second product I can think of is Really Big Lights.  These things were really popular and sold like crazy for a year or two and next thing you know Home Depot is selling a lower quality copy of the product so they ended up going out of business.  Both these products seemed like a huge success the first year or two.  I'll be curious to see where Arcade1Up stands in 3 years.  I don't understand anything about what version of MAME they used to run these things but arguing that they didn't do anything wrong because they aren't in court yet is stupid.  Again in the Christmas lighting world I've seen one vendor flat out steal another vendors design and have it copied in China and the folks impacted were smaller players and did not have the resources to fight them in court.  Doesn't mean they are legit because they weren't sued.

[yotsuya]

Unfortunately it seems like any time a product comes out commercially the quality is sacrificed for cost and/or they get crushed by trying to compete with Chinese knockoffs.  I saw it happen a few times in my other hobby of Christmas lighting.  I met a guy at an Expo that had a product that let people put a series of smart leds on tree and the sequencing was delivered over Bluetooth and he had a patent for his idea.  You can see his stuff at geekmytree.com.  I know he was featured on Shark Tank but I can't remember if he got backing or not.  Anyways once he expanded commercially to keep the cost down they switched from smart pixels to dumb pixels so instead of every pixel being controllable it ended up with the entire string had to be one color so only one control chip at the top of each string to save on parts cost.  Then he started getting hit with lawsuits from patent trolls claiming they had rights to simple aspects of the design like using data commands to turn on an LED.  He ended up going out of business.  The DIY community was disappointed in the product because after switching to dumb pixels they were not as useful for hacking purposes.  Second product I can think of is Really Big Lights.  These things were really popular and sold like crazy for a year or two and next thing you know Home Depot is selling a lower quality copy of the product so they ended up going out of business.  Both these products seemed like a huge success the first year or two.  I'll be curious to see where Arcade1Up stands in 3 years.  I don't understand anything about what version of MAME they used to run these things but arguing that they didn't do anything wrong because they aren't in court yet is stupid.  Again in the Christmas lighting world I've seen one vendor flat out steal another vendors design and have it copied in China and the folks impacted were smaller players and did not have the resources to fight them in court.  Doesn't mean they are legit because they weren't sued.

Good points, Gil. I’m curious if we’ll start seeing knockoff Arcade1Ups any time soon.

[pbj]

They're already Chinese knock offs.   

[Zebra]

They're already Chinese knock offs.   

I was gonna say that too. If you asked me to say what an Chinese knock-off of our fav arcades would be like, the 1UP is pretty much it. Poor build quality with careless low quality emulation just like all the knock-off ten million in one "PCBs".

[yotsuya]

They're already Chinese knock offs.   

I was gonna say that too. If you asked me to say what an Chinese knock-off of our fav arcades would be like, the 1UP is pretty much it. Poor build quality with careless low quality emulation just like all the knock-off ten million in one "PCBs".

Well, yeah, I get that, but If somebody can undercut whatever Arcade1Up is making, you don’t think they’re going to try it?

[Mike A]

What would that be?

A cardboard box with a screen drawn on it in crayon?

[yotsuya]

What would that be?

A cardboard box with a screen drawn on it in crayon?

Even cheaper materials. Existing multiboards.

[pbj]

The Chinese are already making multiboard cabinets that are plug and play location ready, and they're like $800.  We can sit here and debate what Arcade1up should have done different but that's clearly the price ceiling.  They're also making $150 joysticks with multiboards built in that are suspiciously similar in size to the Arcade1up control panel boxes.  I've played them side by side and it's very clearly the same people making both.

[leapinlew]

Arcade1up back up to full price at my 3 Wal-Marts around me. They were discounted yesterday. Using the OPs logic, they must be a success now!

[Howard_Casto]

The Chinese are already making multiboard cabinets that are plug and play location ready, and they're like $800.  We can sit here and debate what Arcade1up should have done different but that's clearly the price ceiling.  They're also making $150 joysticks with multiboards built in that are suspiciously similar in size to the Arcade1up control panel boxes.  I've played them side by side and it's very clearly the same people making both.

It's a custom board, but they are confirmed to use the same chip as those control panels with the games built in that you see on aliexpress all the time.  Honestly, those are probably a better deal as they cost about the same yet everything is full-sized..... plug it into a tv and you are good to go. 

[ark_ader]

They're already Chinese knock offs.   

I was gonna say that too. If you asked me to say what an Chinese knock-off of our fav arcades would be like, the 1UP is pretty much it. Poor build quality with careless low quality emulation just like all the knock-off ten million in one "PCBs".

Well they had plenty of experience with those x-1 boards, which was running Mame and they didn't get into any legal hot water.  My guess 1Up took that as a cheaper option, as they had a legal right to use the emulator.  It hasn't caused them any legal waffles.  I kind of hoped it would so we can see if Mame had any legitimate legal weight.  It is clear they don't.  So lets hope they use mame over blue or whatever it is called in the future.  Same goes for any other company that sells retro arcade products.

[Garavar]

Arcade1up back up to full price at my 3 Wal-Marts around me. They were discounted yesterday. Using the OPs logic, they must be a success now!

Now I have to wait for them to fail to buy my MK Machine

[leapinlew]

Walmart now carrying the Space Invaders machine:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arcade1Up-Space-Invaders-Walmart-Exclusive-4ft-815221027718/678837037

Think anyone will pay full price?

[yotsuya]

Walmart now carrying the Space Invaders machine:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arcade1Up-Space-Invaders-Walmart-Exclusive-4ft-815221027718/678837037

Think anyone will pay full price?

Just the dudes that gotta catch ‘em all!!!!

[negative1]

Walmart now carrying the Space Invaders machine:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arcade1Up-Space-Invaders-Walmart-Exclusive-4ft-815221027718/678837037

Think anyone will pay full price?

reposted it in the wave 2 thread.

yes, there are plenty of people that want the iconic game,
because its cheaper, and easier than finding an original one.

later
-1

[Zebra]

They're already Chinese knock offs.   

I was gonna say that too. If you asked me to say what an Chinese knock-off of our fav arcades would be like, the 1UP is pretty much it. Poor build quality with careless low quality emulation just like all the knock-off ten million in one "PCBs".

Well they had plenty of experience with those x-1 boards, which was running Mame and they didn't get into any legal hot water.  My guess 1Up took that as a cheaper option, as they had a legal right to use the emulator.  It hasn't caused them any legal waffles.  I kind of hoped it would so we can see if Mame had any legitimate legal weight.  It is clear they don't.  So lets hope they use mame over blue or whatever it is called in the future.  Same goes for any other company that sells retro arcade products.

Is the underlying hardware pc based? If so, mame makes sense as the most complete and accurate arcade emulator but various consoles also have emulators they could have "borrowed". The ones I saw didn't look like they were running on any recent mame version I have seen. There was no HLSL etc.

If they ever made a Daytona or Sega Ralley cab, I would hope it would be based on the PS3 emulator. The PS3 versions of those games are the most accurate and least buggy I have seen. Far better than my pc model 2 emulator.

[Malenko]

The a1ups run on pretty much the same hardware as pandoras box 3 and 4.  An A13 CPU

[Zebra]

The a1ups run on pretty much the same hardware as pandoras box 3 and 4.  An A13 CPU

I guess that's the problem with trying to market them as such low budget items. Quality emulators require a fairly decent PC. Something that is easy to acquire used for a low price for individuals but not so easy to offer for companies marketing a new product.

Whoever suggested that they sell empty cabs to make it easy for users to add their own hardware was on to something. As cheap as the 1Ups are, they are far too much for cabs with 1 or 2 poorly emulated games.

[JDFan]

The a1ups run on pretty much the same hardware as pandoras box 3 and 4.  An A13 CPU

I guess that's the problem with trying to market them as such low budget items. Quality emulators require a fairly decent PC. Something that is easy to acquire used for a low price for individuals but not so easy to offer for companies marketing a new product.

Whoever suggested that they sell empty cabs to make it easy for users to add their own hardware was on to something. As cheap as the 1Ups are, they are far too much for cabs with 1 or 2 poorly emulated games.

Problem there is the cost would be the same as the full A1U cab with the 1 or 2 games -- and you'd still need to buy the rest of the parts (since they couldn't sell them loaded with roms and so would not include any of the game hardware in order to keep it open for all options ) - FIgure the PCB with the games is minimal cost and removing it would not really save A1U any $ ( selling an empty cab would cost as much to manufacture/distribute as the fully operational cabs) - Plus you then limit your audience to those willing/capable of building the rest thus limiting your target audience even more.

They are better off doing it the way they are since those that do not want to mod them can still buy them and those that want to mod them will still buy them and just use the shell etc. - and for A1U the profit margin is the same as it would be selling empty cabs.

[JDFan]

Whoever suggested that they sell empty cabs to make it easy for users to add their own hardware was on to something. As cheap as the 1Ups are, they are far too much for cabs with 1 or 2 poorly emulated games.

Thing is the PCB for the games is minimal cost - so selling empty cabs would not make any extra profit for A1U ( as buyers would expect an empty cab to be much cheaper than the current cabs but production/distribution costs would be almost the same ! )  and that would also limit their market to those capable/willing to finish the builds - They are better off doing it the way they are and modders can just buy a cab and modify it like is already being done - that way they get the sales to those that never plan to mod it and also from those that will.

[Zebra]

Whoever suggested that they sell empty cabs to make it easy for users to add their own hardware was on to something. As cheap as the 1Ups are, they are far too much for cabs with 1 or 2 poorly emulated games.

Thing is the PCB for the games is minimal cost - so selling empty cabs would not make any extra profit for A1U ( as buyers would expect an empty cab to be much cheaper than the current cabs but production/distribution costs would be almost the same ! )  and that would also limit their market to those capable/willing to finish the builds - They are better off doing it the way they are and modders can just buy a cab and modify it like is already being done - that way they get the sales to those that never plan to mod it and also from those that will.

There is a lot of guess-work and assumptions in that statement and I think it is wrong. Removing the electronics and licensing fees is a meaningful saving. I'm sure Namco and Capcom took their pound of flesh.

IMO, anyone that would buy and assemble a 1Up would be capable of assembling a bartop kit and putting a cheap PC inside. I find it hard to believe that anyone who loves gaming enough to put a cab in their house would find downloading mame too hard and too much effort.

Telling those who want a multicade to do a diy conversion is what will limit the market. Only extreme fans can be bothered to hack embedded electronics, rewire control panels, solder connections and remove decals with a hair-dryer to get at screws.

[Zebra]

This is the sort of thing they would need to make to peak my interest:













They are so cool!

[Mike A]

I don't get it at all. What is the fascination with a cab that is too small to actually play the game the right way? Those tiny cabs probably get played twice and then sit on a shelf.

[Howard_Casto]

Those cabs are in Walmart and thus all the normal consumers have direct access to them.  All of these other solutions are not.  If the various diy kits were available at Walmart then a1up wouldn't be as popular, but they aren't so there you go. 

[Malenko]

I don't get it at all. What is the fascination with a cab that is too small to actually play the game the right way? Those tiny cabs probably get played twice and then sit on a shelf.

I still love JohnRT's cabs, and i think they are completely playable. The others ones though, they definitely seem far too small.

[Osirus23]

This is the sort of thing they would need to make to peak my interest:

It's pique, dammit.

[lilshawn]

peek

 

[opt2not]

"Fullsized" bartops are completely playable. JohnRT's driving cabs are fine.

The miniture sized cabinets are just desk ornaments. Interesting to look at, but not really practical or useful for gaming.  The hipsters love 'em though.

[keilmillerjr]

This is the sort of thing they would need to make to peak my interest:

They are so cool!

Seems big enough for a ferret to play. Hooman… not so much.

[Gilrock]

I've been itching to play Sega Rally Championship so that first cab looks pretty nice.  Is there a build thread around for that?  I can't find any member named JohnRT.

[Zebra]

"Fullsized" bartops are completely playable. JohnRT's driving cabs are fine.

The miniture sized cabinets are just desk ornaments. Interesting to look at, but not really practical or useful for gaming.  The hipsters love 'em though.

Having comfortable controls is important but if people can enjoy playing on a Gameboy then a bartop is more than playable.

The starting point for these things is that most people don't have room to put a full size cab or a dedicated sit down in their house (or their wife just said no). A bartop has the advantage of being the right height when placed on a desk but still small enough to put in a large closet when not in use.

I could see it being great fun to have a pair of linked up Daytona bartops for when the guys come over. There is added value there, espiecially if the driving cab had a bunch of classic racers. I don't see much value (to me) in a 4ft single game joystick cab.

[Zebra]

I've been itching to play Sega Rally Championship so that first cab looks pretty nice.  Is there a build thread around for that?  I can't find any member named JohnRT.

I think there might be one on YouTube. There is for the Outrun cabs anyway.

For Sega Ralley and Daytona, I'd put a PS3 inside and use one of the Logitech ffb wheels that sell for $30 on eBay these days. Bartop racer on the desk, pedals under the desk and everything is at the right height.

I kept an old Sony crt PC monitor in the garage with one of these in mind.

[opt2not]

I've been itching to play Sega Rally Championship so that first cab looks pretty nice.  Is there a build thread around for that?  I can't find any member named JohnRT.

Looks like JohnRT nuked his account here.  He's still got some of his posts up, but they're missing pictures.

I did find a youtube video of his outrun bartop:


Can't remember who built that Sega Rally bartop.

"Fullsized" bartops are completely playable. JohnRT's driving cabs are fine.

The miniture sized cabinets are just desk ornaments. Interesting to look at, but not really practical or useful for gaming.  The hipsters love 'em though.

Having comfortable controls is important but if people can enjoy playing on a Gameboy then a bartop is more than playable.

This statement doesn't make any sense, because the Gameboy is completely playable. In fact, I'd go so far to say it's comfortable for my hands.  I'm not arguing about bartops, I'm arguing against the "mini" sized cabinets that fit in the palm of your hand. Those minitures are just ornaments.

[Zebra]

I've been itching to play Sega Rally Championship so that first cab looks pretty nice.  Is there a build thread around for that?  I can't find any member named JohnRT.

Looks like JohnRT nuked his account here.  He's still got some of his posts up, but they're missing pictures.

I did find a youtube video of his outrun bartop:


Can't remember who built that Sega Rally bartop.

"Fullsized" bartops are completely playable. JohnRT's driving cabs are fine.

The miniture sized cabinets are just desk ornaments. Interesting to look at, but not really practical or useful for gaming.  The hipsters love 'em though.

Having comfortable controls is important but if people can enjoy playing on a Gameboy then a bartop is more than playable.

This statement doesn't make any sense, because the Gameboy is completely playable. In fact, I'd go so far to say it's comfortable for my hands.  I'm not arguing about bartops, I'm arguing against the "mini" sized cabinets that fit in the palm of your hand. Those minitures are just ornaments.

All but one of the cabs I posted pics of were bartops, not the little novelty cabs.

I'll reserve judgement on the 12" mini cabs until I try one but I don't think anyone would expect them to feel exactly like a full size. That doesn't mean they can't be made playable and fun though. As with a gameboy, it just requires a little design care.

The sort of set up I would be most likely to buy is a pair of linked bartop size racing cabs with a full size ffb wheel and seperate pedals under my desk. I have a Logitech ffb wheel for my PS3. One of those could easily fit a well designed bartop. Or a Star Wars bartop with yoke controls, or an afterburner cab with a decent analog stick etc.

The key point is that I want more added value and a better reason to buy one. With the current offering, I can't see what I gain over playing on a laptop with a cheap eBay fight stick. If they are only going to put one or two games in a cab, they need to do more to create an arcade-like experience imo.