Not much going on?

[Ond]

Ha.  Hmm, what exactly is a purist in terms of BYOAC anyway?  I say BYOAC and not just the broader arcade hobbyist community.

Other people might have a different explanation, but to me, being a purist means you're sticking to somewhat traditional arcade design conventions and emulation is avoided. Especially poor emulation that introduces things like input lag (like a rasp pi) that deters from the experience of the original game.

I just found the statement of being a purist because of not agreeing/liking the extended features of an Emulator is kind of a contradiction.

I have to admit I'm a real skeptic when it comes to rasp pi being used for emulation.  It seems a compromised base to begin from.  Maybe that's changing as rasp pi advances in processing power.  I get that they are cheap to use but PC stuff is so easy to come by.

[Kingcade]

Ha.  Hmm, what exactly is a purist in terms of BYOAC anyway?  I say BYOAC and not just the broader arcade hobbyist community.

Other people might have a different explanation, but to me, being a purist means you're sticking to somewhat traditional arcade design conventions and emulation is avoided. Especially poor emulation that introduces things like input lag (like a rasp pi) that deters from the experience of the original game.

I just found the statement of being a purist because of not agreeing/liking the extended features of an Emulator is kind of a contradiction.

I have to admit I'm a real skeptic when it comes to rasp pi being used for emulation.  It seems a compromised base to begin from.  Maybe that's changing as rasp pi advances in processing power.  I get that they are cheap to use but PC stuff is so easy to come by.

I suppose purist means different things to different people. Maybe picky is a better word. The things I wanted to be picky about in my build are:
- Having a vertical screen for vertical games and a horizontal screen for horizontal games, hence a rotating display
- Having a CRT rather than LCD screen
- Running in native 15Khz - that seemed easier to do with a Raspberry Pi than a PC
- Having joysticks that could operate in 4-way or 8-way mode

I haven't actually run any games on my Pi yet, but my understanding is that it works fine for most arcade games. It apparently bogs down when emulating later consoles. If it doesn't work, I'll try a different approach.

[leapinlew]

My experience with the pi has been along the lines of it being a fine experience, as long as you are ok with the base installs available and you are average to good at many games. I think when you are really good at a few specific games, you'll notice things that will affect your game play that most players wouldn't. Also, some people are just more sensitive to audio and visual defects. I always thought it was blissful ignorance not to be blessed with a perfect ear or not being able to tell the difference between a 1080p and 4k displays. I'm one of those blissfully ignorant folks. On the flip side, I also wonder what experiences I'm missing out on. Guess I'll never know.

Bottom line, your mileage will vary, so check it out and report back.

The word purist gets thrown around here a bit. I've seen self proclaimed purists here build machines that are much better quality than the mass produced wooden boxes we were given. That seems to be ok.

[Mr. Peabody]

......4k looks like high-resolution videotape - as in cheap, like soap operas. Pretty damn obvious.

People are less ugly under 4k.

[Vigo]

Soap Opera effect is caused by frame rate and/or frame interpolation, not resolution.

[Mr. Peabody]

Yes. And 4K is at least 60. Film-style is, and according to 'informed opinions' will remain for a long while, 24 (23.xxx). I prefer this for 'high-production' video.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Yes. And 4K is at least 60. Film-style is, and according to 'informed opinions' will remain for a long while, 24 (23.xxx). I prefer this for 'high-production' video.

Huh? Frame rate and resolution are independant and most modern films that are released in a 4k resolution are still typical cinema fps.

The bigger issue of 1080p vs 4k is physical screen size and viewing distance. At a certain point your eye just can't resolve the difference (assuming the source media was shot with enough detail for there to even be a difference).

[Howard_Casto]

Yes. And 4K is at least 60. Film-style is, and according to 'informed opinions' will remain for a long while, 24 (23.xxx). I prefer this for 'high-production' video.

Huh? Frame rate and resolution are independant and most modern films that are released in a 4k resolution are still typical cinema fps.

The bigger issue of 1080p vs 4k is physical screen size and viewing distance. At a certain point your eye just can't resolve the difference (assuming the source media was shot with enough detail for there to even be a difference).

^This^

Got a 4k 50 incher last holiday season and honestly I can't tell any real difference between 4k and 1080p.  I mean maybe if I got 10 inches from the screen or something.  It's definitely not the same as the difference between ntsc broadcast and 720p or 720p and 1080p.  Now the HDR color.... sometimes that makes a difference depending upon the film.

[Osirus23]

I can't see much of a difference with films at 4K vs 1080. I can, however, notice a huge difference going from a 1080p to 4K PC monitor. When using 4K I set the Display Scaling to 200% so everything (taskbar, icons, etc.) renders at the same size in 4K as it does in 1080p, but the text is so much crisper and nicer to look at. I work as a programmer and this makes a big difference to me.

And regarding the "soap opera" video effect, no that has nothing to do with 4K. 4K is only a resolution. All the 4K movies I watch playback at 24 fps and do not have that issue.

[markc74]

^ double this ^

I truly dont understand the push for 4k visuals when it impacts performance so much. Yes it looks clearer and some content truly shines (bbc blue planet etc) but for gaming? Meh. Frame rate and responsiveness are king imo. Hdr beats 4k for me although they seem to be intrinsically linked (on xbox at least)

[Howard_Casto]

Well what kills me is they are already trying to roll out 8k or higher.  In the US at least, the cable/fiber infrastructure simply isn't fat enough to handle 4k, much less anything higher.  It all seems like a gimmick to sell tvs to me. 

[leapinlew]

It all seems like a gimmick to sell tvs to me.

Gee, you’re crazy man.

Now bring me my “8k ready” curved 3D smart tv already!

[Drnick]

......4k looks like high-resolution videotape - as in cheap, like soap operas. Pretty damn obvious.

People are less ugly under 4k.

This is so so true.  First thing I did with both my 46" 1080 and the 65" 4k was turn off all the processing and stuff.  I can't stand that cheap soap opera look  

My opinionion is that 4k resolution is ever so slightly better than 1080p for movies where the movie is being played from 4k source.
The difference with games is better though.  Spiderman on PS4 1080p  vs Spiderman on PS4 Pro 4k, I would rather play it in 4k, definitely looks nicer.
The main problem I have with 4k is if you have a low resolution item being upscaled,  upscaling of 240/480i video is absolutely crap
HDR is nice though The difference it made when I was playing Tombraider was a lot larger than I expected.

[Ond]

I can't see much of a difference with films at 4K vs 1080. I can, however, notice a huge difference going from a 1080p to 4K PC monitor. When using 4K I set the Display Scaling to 200% so everything (taskbar, icons, etc.) renders at the same size in 4K as it does in 1080p, but the text is so much crisper and nicer to look at. I work as a programmer and this makes a big difference to me.

And regarding the "soap opera" video effect, no that has nothing to do with 4K. 4K is only a resolution. All the 4K movies I watch playback at 24 fps and do not have that issue.

I have to concur with this.  I read a lot of eBook magazines on my 4K PC monitor, no not that kind, mainly 3D drawing mags and such.  Fonts are clean and sharp and much closer to a printed page than a pixelated screen. With gaming I prefer frame rate over resolution.  It's a big ask of most graphics cards to crank out 60fps for the very latest games at 4K. I guess in our hobby there's more scope for HLSL emulation using 4K, GSync  (HA! not with a Raspberry Pi you don't) but lower resolution screens seem fine to me.  Classic movies that have been restored or re-released from 4K or 8K scans are a real joy to watch.  It's like watching your favourites for the first time again with all the extra detail your eye picks up in each scene.

Hi def content is becoming increasingly more available but it's probably true that most people with 4K TVs are mainly watching content at 1080 or less so no wonder they can't tell the difference from their older 1080p sets!

[Jimbo]

I've built a few things... had a break, got more ideas but have to get the garage (game room / workshop) finished first.  Things always take twice as long as you think they'll take (at least) but when I'm done I plan to get back to my Jimbovision project.  Right now I have like zero room to do anything.

I am based in the UK, and I have slowly got more into buying and restoring original arcade machines.  I've recently bought an Outrun upright, Defender and an Asteroids Cabaret.  Also have 2 Electrocoin Midi Jamma cabs that I need to fix up.  I dunno, there's just something different about playing on the proper hardware than software/emulated setups.

I have too many projects though!  Since I'm in the UK I've been more active on the ukvac forum than here tbh.  I do have a soft spot for this forum though so I'll definitely be documenting my project progress on here (when I get back to Jimbovision and any other future builds) but probably on ukvac for the restorations, since that's more local to me and feels more relevant - plus the help and knowledge there in fixing up old machines is amazing.

Regarding the forum and facebook etc.   My process for posting here with photos is quite drawn out.  I write the post in notepad leaving gaps for the photos.  I have to get the photos off my phone, rename them, resize/crop them in gimp/paint/whatever.  Upload them separately in a project images thread.  Grab the URLs for each of them and paste them into my notepad post, manually adding the img tags around them.  Then I copy and paste the entire thing into the "new post" texbox on BYOAC.  At least this way I have it in case the post fails to submit (happened before) and I've lost it all.

So it's a bit of a faff, where FB and probably others make it a lot easier.  I don't mind it really... it means I can get the post right, think about it, crop images nicely etc.  But I can see how younger/less patient people could be really put off by it.

Also, I've joined a bunch of arcade building groups/pages on facebook, and to me, most of the stuff posted is right tat compared to the quality we see here.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

To the point of resolving detail at a distance where it pertains to video games.. when we first got a 4k TV, we were playing a lot of 4-player split screen games (Mostly Sonic Team Racing), Even at the  distance from the TV to the couch, being able to see that there was something in the distance, even if I couldn't tell what it was, was a pretty big improvement.

[markiej]

Well what kills me is they are already trying to roll out 8k or higher.  In the US at least, the cable/fiber infrastructure simply isn't fat enough to handle 4k, much less anything higher.  It all seems like a gimmick to sell tvs to me.

While film can be tricky to quantify - but I remember someone saying that even IMAX doesn't resolve to 8K

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Well what kills me is they are already trying to roll out 8k or higher.  In the US at least, the cable/fiber infrastructure simply isn't fat enough to handle 4k, much less anything higher.  It all seems like a gimmick to sell tvs to me.

While film can be tricky to quantify - but I remember someone saying that even IMAX doesn't resolve to 8K

https://www.tested.com/tech/459274-lets-clear-some-imax-misconceptions/
According to IMAX, 35mm film has a digital equivalent of 6000 lines of horizontal resolution (6K), while 70mm film has the equivalent of 18,000 lines of digital resolution (more like 12,000 in reality).

[pbj]

For the last 20 years, every time there's a new digital camera or fancy TV, I'm always presented with an article claiming that 35mm is juuuuuuust slightly higher quality. 

Who knows... there was someone selling vinyl records at the airport, maybe if Kodak keeps pushing lies we'll have one hour photo again.

[Howard_Casto]

Well it is true though.  This is why old tv shows like Star Trek TNG and Cheers, that were filmed in 35mm, look fan frikkin tastic in hd.  Of course the problem is any show that had any sort of special effects generally had it composited in ntsc 480i, so all the sfx have to be remastered.... sometimes they do a great job like TNG and sometimes they do a horrible job like Buffy.  The same can be said for films.... movies shown on imax rarely have their sfx rendered in imax resolution.  I think that's why modern film makers over-use crappy editing techniques that prevent you from focusing on the action. 

[Mr. Peabody]

The forum software has evolved - just not to the level of convenience of most contemporary things. Apparently due to storage and allowed file size and set limits.


@Howard: except in TOS, where they re-did all the space scenes, changing the ends of the Enterprise warp nascelles for example.....

I think the joggy editing and such is to mirror the mental space of people, especially under 20.