Author Topic: Gil's Robotron Build (Read 41633 times)

nexusmtz · « **Reply #160 on:** May 14, 2019, 09:04:45 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 14, 2019, 08:50:36 pm

Loving the play on the cab. I was so close to breaking a million just now.

3 more games and you'll have it!

Gilrock · « **Reply #161 on:** May 14, 2019, 09:31:45 pm »

Ok I hooked up the TPG and got some images of what the monitor is doing and one image of what the sync looks like at power up. I've found when I power off the JROK board still runs for like 5 seconds so I've just gotten in the habit of powering up for about 5 seconds then do a 1 second power off and the monitor is fine. I did move the screen a little to the right after taking these photos.

opt2not · « **Reply #162 on:** May 15, 2019, 03:15:16 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 14, 2019, 09:31:45 pm

Hmm, if you already degaussed, then this is most likely a purity issue. You'll have to do some adjustments to the purity rings on the yoke.

There is some instructions on adjusting it in the K7000 manual:
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-monitors/Wells%20Gardner%20K7000%20Manual%20from%20Williams%20Game.pdf

There's also a flow chart regarding your sync issue, might be applicable to your boot-up sync problem. The few components to check is the Horizontal Sync Inverter Q6, and IC2. I wouldn't be surprised if either of these are starting to fail.

Edit:
Here’s a good page with some more information on purity and convergence, for your reference.
http://www.castleclassicarcade.com/archives/monitor-purity-issues

opt2not · « **Reply #163 on:** May 15, 2019, 06:58:09 pm »

Sorry for the multiple posts, here's an interesting article on bob robert's site that looks like the same issue you're having with the sync:

http://therealbobroberts.net/slanted.html

jennifer · « **Reply #164 on:** May 15, 2019, 10:30:31 pm »

**See...Second opinion, Most likely NOT the yoke.

Gilrock · « **Reply #165 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:24:19 am »

Quote from: jennifer on May 15, 2019, 10:30:31 pm

**See...Second opinion, Most likely NOT the yoke.

Ken Layton said:
"Yeh, it looks like the yoke is just a tad bit too close or too far from the tube."

Gilrock · « **Reply #166 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:30:18 am »

Quote from: opt2not on May 15, 2019, 06:58:09 pm

Sorry for the multiple posts, here's an interesting article on bob robert's site that looks like the same issue you're having with the sync:

http://therealbobroberts.net/slanted.html

Thanks Opt I'll check it out.

opt2not · « **Reply #167 on:** May 16, 2019, 02:02:32 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 16, 2019, 09:24:19 am

Quote from: jennifer on May 15, 2019, 10:30:31 pm
**See...Second opinion, Most likely NOT the yoke.

Ken Layton said:
"Yeh, it looks like the yoke is just a tad bit too close or too far from the tube."

Definitely listen to Ken, he's like the Yoda of monitors.

Mike A · « **Reply #168 on:** May 16, 2019, 02:06:55 pm »

Yoda sucked at technology. He just beat ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with his cane.

opt2not · « **Reply #169 on:** May 16, 2019, 02:14:18 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on May 16, 2019, 02:02:32 pm

Definitely listen to Ken, he's like the Tony Stark of monitors.

@Mike A, better?

(nerd!!!)

jennifer · « **Reply #170 on:** May 16, 2019, 04:54:40 pm »

All I was sayin is messing with the yoke changes your convergence, not easy to get right again without some specialized equipment, Rather than a buch of guessing... I would be in the purity camp or possibly a shorted flyback.

Gilrock · « **Reply #171 on:** May 16, 2019, 05:15:43 pm »

Meh I already messed with convergence rings on my K4600. Its easy I saw a guy do it on YouTube plus I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

bperkins01 · « **Reply #172 on:** May 16, 2019, 05:29:18 pm »

I'm not afraid of taking pretty much anything apart and messing with it..
But I've always been afraid of TV tubes...
Yikes!

jennifer · « **Reply #173 on:** May 16, 2019, 06:42:57 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 16, 2019, 05:15:43 pm

Meh I already messed with convergence rings on my K4600. Its easy I saw a guy do it on YouTube plus I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Those are called purity rings @least you should get the terminology correct before you start blasting g it all over Utube...And the odds are far more likely something else is drifted or failing than the yoke magically moving out of position from the factory.

opt2not · « **Reply #174 on:** May 16, 2019, 07:04:53 pm »

Calm down, Jennifer.

Gil's a good guy. There is no need for your sass towards him.

At this point it's narrowed-down speculation, till Gil get's a chance to try a few things out.

jennifer · « **Reply #175 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:37:28 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on May 16, 2019, 07:04:53 pm

Calm down, Jennifer. Gil's a good guy. There is no need for your sass towards him.

At this point it's narrowed-down speculation, till Gil get's a chance to try a few things out.

OMG...Opt2not killed Jennifer...OMG I think the witch is dead!

yotsuya · « **Reply #176 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:03:05 pm »

I think Jennifer would enjoy hanging out with Gil.

Mike A · « **Reply #177 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:16:31 pm »

As long as Gil has an English to Jennifer dictionary.

Nephasth · « **Reply #178 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:45:49 pm »

Quote from: yotsuya on May 16, 2019, 11:03:05 pm

I think Jennifer would enjoy hanging out with Gil.

Gilrock · « **Reply #179 on:** May 17, 2019, 09:45:06 am »

Quote from: jennifer on May 16, 2019, 06:42:57 pm

Quote from: Gilrock on May 16, 2019, 05:15:43 pm
Meh I already messed with convergence rings on my K4600. Its easy I saw a guy do it on YouTube plus I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Those are called purity rings @least you should get the terminology correct before you start blasting g it all over Utube...And the odds are far more likely something else is drifted or failing than the yoke magically moving out of position from the factory.

Figure 6 of the K7000 service manual linked above by Opt2not labels the entire ring area as the "Convergence Magnet Ass'y". The set of rings near the tube are labeled "Purity Centering Magnets", followed by the "4 Pole Convergence Magnets" which align red and blue and then the "6 Pole Convergence Magnets" which aligns green to the other colors. So to make it easier to say when I say "convergence rings" you can take that to mean the 6 pole and 4 pole convergence magnets. I did not touch the "Purity Centering Magnets" on my K4600 so that's why I said "convergence rings".

I'm also not convinced this is the factory tube/yoke. The tube has no hint of burn in and the guys on KLOV said this seller is basically rebuilding the chassis and doing a tube replacement. The ring/yoke assembly and the tube look pristine clean. I can see he added 2 convergence strips under the yoke when he adjusted it. It's possible his adjustments shifted during shipping. The seller if I remember right is chris25810 on KLOV and I looked him up and he has over 7,000 posts there and from what I've seen he appears to know his way around a monitor.

But like I've tried to say 3 times the monitor actually looks good enough that I'm considering leaving it alone.

Now I'll take my engineer hat off for a minute. The guys at ZapCon were all telling me about a picture you posted. They all wanted to see it again. Tell me more about that.

Gilrock · « **Reply #180 on:** May 18, 2019, 08:43:30 pm »

Ok fixed all the monitor issues to my satisfaction. I swapped out the Robotron monitor for the other one I bought from the same seller because it looked a lot nicer. I had put it in my Defender but I'd rather have the best monitor in Robotron. Plus those discolored corners are mostly in insignificant areas for Defender. I also fixed the sync by getting the bright idea to try to horz knob...lol.

And I finally reached my first goal of breaking a million on Robotron!!!

Zeosstud · « **Reply #181 on:** May 18, 2019, 09:36:28 pm »

Congrats on a Million+

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opt2not · « **Reply #182 on:** May 18, 2019, 09:48:35 pm »

You’re on your way, man! Congrats.

Gilrock · « **Reply #183 on:** May 19, 2019, 01:14:17 am »

Thanks...just played one more before bed and topped that score but only by like 3,000. I'm just not used to being in the waves in the 40's. My score is probably low for points per wave...I'm getting to around wave 47.

opt2not · « **Reply #184 on:** May 19, 2019, 03:10:54 am »

You’re good man. To get up to that wave is what matters. You already said you beat your last score, even by a few thousand. You’ll adapt to the later levels very quickly.
Just try to get that family score multiplier every wave, those big points can help you build up a good cache of lives to help you get through some of the death slumps.
It’s all about that extra life:death ratio.

Mike A · « **Reply #185 on:** May 19, 2019, 09:16:17 am »

Don't die as much. Why didn't I think of that?

Gilrock · « **Reply #186 on:** June 03, 2019, 10:19:57 pm »

Getting there. I now gotta break a million to even post in my top 5. I hit wave 65 on this run and died with 1 brain left and a bullet 1 inch away from hitting it. If I could just figure out how to better avoid the brain shots I could marathon this game.

opt2not · « **Reply #187 on:** June 03, 2019, 11:05:53 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on June 03, 2019, 10:19:57 pm

If I could just figure out how to better avoid the brain shots I could marathon this game.

You gotta do the wiggle “spread shot” on them. They randomly go left and right then diagonal when then chase after you, so while you’re running from them, shoot at them by wiggling the shot stick between the diagonals as quickly as possible to get the spread.

Gilrock · « **Reply #188 on:** June 04, 2019, 08:50:38 am »

Quote from: opt2not on June 03, 2019, 11:05:53 pm

Quote from: Gilrock on June 03, 2019, 10:19:57 pm
If I could just figure out how to better avoid the brain shots I could marathon this game.
You gotta do the wiggle “spread shot” on them. They randomly go left and right then diagonal when then chase after you, so while you’re running from them, shoot at them by wiggling the shot stick between the diagonals as quickly as possible to get the spread.

Thanks. I think the problem is when they are coming at me from 3 directions. I swear I seem to have more of them coming at me than I see when I watch videos of the guys that marathon the game.

Gilrock · « **Reply #189 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:24:14 pm »

I hooked up the 2 switches on the JAMMA harness so I could check the Robotron settings. Kinda disappointed to see I've only been playing on Difficulty 3. I bumped it up to 5 and so far only got to 840,000. I can't figure out exactly what changes between the difficulty levels. It feels harder but it doesn't seem like things move faster. Maybe the timer for when the spheroids spawn enforcers gets shorter? It also feels like the enforcers pump out more shots causing your shots to hit theirs more often.

I also had a guy come by to buy my old mame controller last weekend. Turns out he was one of the service techs at ZapCon and he seemed to know a bit about Robotron machines. He was commenting how nice my joysticks and buttons felt on the one I built and he said I had one of the best looking CRTs he's seen in a long time.

opt2not · « **Reply #190 on:** June 05, 2019, 02:21:13 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on June 05, 2019, 12:24:14 pm

I hooked up the 2 switches on the JAMMA harness so I could check the Robotron settings. Kinda disappointed to see I've only been playing on Difficulty 3. I bumped it up to 5 and so far only got to 840,000. I can't figure out exactly what changes between the difficulty levels. It feels harder but it doesn't seem like things move faster. Maybe the timer for when the spheroids spawn enforcers gets shorter? It also feels like the enforcers pump out more shots causing your shots to hit theirs more often.

I also had a guy come by to buy my old mame controller last weekend. Turns out he was one of the service techs at ZapCon and he seemed to know a bit about Robotron machines. He was commenting how nice my joysticks and buttons felt on the one I built and he said I had one of the best looking CRTs he's seen in a long time.

The Grunts will take their steps faster, their rhythm increases with the difficulty increase. Yeah, the Enforcers get spawned quicker and they are more aggressive with shooting.

Don't be discouraged, you'll adjust to the higher difficulty. It'll just train you to be more aggressive and really control the floor of enemies more. Prioritize those spheroids!

Gilrock · « **Reply #191 on:** June 05, 2019, 10:45:53 pm »

Just played a bunch of games where I couldn't break 750K on difficulty 5 and then all of sudden hit a 1.5 mil game. I could have punched the screen when again I died with 1 brain on wave 55 with only 25 more points to another man.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #192 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:21:14 pm »

What size are the holes that the Joysticks come up through? I am hoping to install my control panel overlay onto my newly built control panel and normally drill 1.5" holes for joysticks, but that is when the dust washer is on the outside. Just wondering what size you used when properly having the washers under the Control Panel Overlay. I have a set of the Dominux8 sticks I will be using, and they are made so that you can have the washer under the wood, may or may not need some washers, will see, just wondering what size holes to drill and am praying to the CPO gods that when I drill into the control panel, with the cpo already installed, the cut is clean and there is no tear out. Alternately I may just dry fit the cpo and then drill the holes, apply the cpo and use an razor blade or exacto knife to cut away the excess.

Thanks,

Zeosstud

Gilrock · « **Reply #193 on:** August 05, 2019, 02:45:23 pm »

I'll have to look at my design when I'm at home. If you got the control panel overlay I thought the holes they cut out were the same size as what you need to cutout.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #194 on:** August 05, 2019, 05:10:32 pm »

From what I can find online, the Robotron joystick hole is 1 3/8".. also read that the Dominux8 can be used in a 1 1/8" hole if perfectly centered but 1 1/4" hole is recommended.. Gotta decide on a plan here very shortly..

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Zeosstud · « **Reply #195 on:** August 05, 2019, 06:59:47 pm »

Got my control panel drilled out, good clean cuts, happy and very relieved.. Decided to go with 1 3/8" holes, hopefully that works out.. if the Dominux8 could work in 1 1/8, and is suggested to work in 1 1/4, then surely the original hole size for Robotron of 1 3/8" will be a piece of cake to allow the joysticks to work as designed!!

In case anyone cares..

I applied the control panel overlay, then took a hole punch and marked the center of where I want to drill, put the tip of the forstner bit in the indentation, got the drill up to full speed and went straight down with some pressure, not letting up until it was clearly thru the overlay material and into the wood. Same thing for the holes for buttons and joysticks.

got good clean cuts, hope everyone has the exact same results!!

Gilrock · « **Reply #196 on:** August 05, 2019, 08:23:01 pm »

Yep my hole is 1 3/8". Your panel doesn't appear to have any slope to the top surface. Instead of it being 90 deg from the front surface more like 76 deg would give the tilt towards you like the original.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #197 on:** August 06, 2019, 12:39:08 am »

Yeah, mine is a bit off angle wise, but it will be okay for now, built it with what I had available, pretty happy.

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opt2not · « **Reply #198 on:** August 06, 2019, 12:53:26 am »

Hey I thought this was Gilrock’s project thread.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #199 on:** August 06, 2019, 01:50:38 am »

It most certainly is.. He just gave me some good advise and answered some questions, as he normally does.. I simply got a little to excited, my bad, will attempt to keep things a little more tidy going forward. Besides, this thread had slipped to page 2, can't have that for one of the best scratch built Robotron cabinets ever!!

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