Author Topic: Gil's Robotron Build (Read 41478 times)

Ond · « **Reply #80 on:** April 03, 2019, 08:36:10 pm »

Sorry to hear about your painting challenges. From what I've read, I think you are correct about the primer preparation of the surface and its importance. If you can still see grain or bumps after you've applied several coats of primer and wet sanded back then the primer surface is too thin. Regardless of the type of finish you want, be it mat/semi-gloss or high-gloss that prepared surface has to be smooth. Think dull plastic. The dull plastic finish is a 600 grit finish and no less. No smoother though or you start to impact paint adhesion. Paint needs some micro roughness to adhere best.

As an example, my Xenolix cab (bartop) is at the dull plastic primed stage. I'll be spraying it with rattle cans of mat black. It won't be sanded after each of two coats at all. The finish will be smooth and even because of the surface preparation and because of the quality of the rattle cans. I normally use my spray gun these days, but won't be for that particular project because of the type of paint I want to use.

This is what I suggest. Step 1...don't let it get to ya!

Get the primer finish free of grain with a few coats, say three or four. Wet sand each back just enough to dull smooth using 600 grit. Put your gun aside for the time being until you can get your technique perfected more. Use some good quality rattle cans that match the primer type. That paint you’re using seems a bit suspect as well. I'd recommend spraying on horizontal surfaces, it's just so much easier. It does takes longer to get things done but it's worth it. I still try to avoid spraying vertical surfaces unless absolutely necessary.

We can chat about painting stuff over a beer soon enough

Gilrock · « **Reply #81 on:** April 03, 2019, 08:52:29 pm »

After I stripped it last round I tried to just spray on the final color and didn't add more primer because it appeared the grain was already somewhat filled in since you can't strip it out of the crevasses and I thought it might not look that bad to have a little wood grain look since my Defender cab from the old days you can see the grain and you can see where they inserted those eyeball plugs to fix defects in the wood. I bought a few rattle cans with the same Aluminum color and the one side I experimented on it just seemed like I wasn't able to get a uniform look. I know you're supposed to keep walking up the wet line.

Gilrock · « **Reply #82 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:00:59 am »

Ok round 3. I stripped this side back to wood and then put several coats of filler primer and had it sanded with 400 grit. It felt the smoothest I've had it before spraying the real color. I tried one can of spray paint and the uniformity was terrible. So after that dried I used my HPLV gravity sprayer. With the silver paint that's when a bunch of tiny imperfections show up that I couldn't even see in the filler primer. This is where I get unsure how to handle it. Those imperfections appear to be almost the entire thickness of the coat I sprayed on so it seems like I'd need to sand off the entire coat to get this smooth again. Anyways I attached the best photo I could get. Hard to photo a flat grey surface.

Mike A · « **Reply #83 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:09:53 am »

I wish I could help you with paint. I have almost no experience with painting. I have a family friend that owns an auto body shop. I think I would take a cab to him if I ever needed one painted.

Gilrock · « **Reply #84 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:21:15 am »

Part of me wants to just call that good enough. I really want to get to playing this thing not just stare are a pretty paint job....lol.

Mike A · « **Reply #85 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:35:26 am »

Just get 2 more cabs. Put Robotron in the middle. Problem solved. You are welcome.

jennifer · « **Reply #86 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:22:57 pm »

That's getting really close...I am thinking your paint is not thick enough to get the mils (thickness) you need for coverage. This time take a pencil and circle all your problems, and with auto body glaze putty and a razorblade cleaned off with acetone fill all your problems flat and smooth, not a pile but a scrape flat with the cabinet, only do like 4 at a time or so because that stuff sets really fast an gets clumpy and unworkable in like2 min....Sand again with 400, randomly and evenly and completly, and with your paint a bit thicker, test your pattern on cardboard, your looking for a long skinny oval about 4inches long, at around 20psi,... Evenly spray a coat not wet but sticky and pimply but do it evenly everywhere, This is your tack coat, its really light and thin, and looks horrible, when you get all the way around don't stop where you started should be sticky not dry, Coat two is coverage and build, (done correctly you have effectively bridged any misgivings) this time you want build and coverage even overlapping passes, it should look painted at this point just kind of thin, and probably a missed spot here and there... Walk away for 15 min (depending on conditions, I smoke A lucky and mix a new batch of color in that time) But Not telling you to smoke, Mike A would get all offended.

... it needs to tack, touch the tape, it should be sticky, not dry for coat 3...Again even overlapping passes this time is the money shot, the shine, this is what you will be looking at forever, make it wet, from about 5 inches away, smooth even coats overlapping your passes, go past the edge of you panel before you let off the trigger, just like a crop duster come back for the next pass, Not too much or it will drip, just enough to get that awesome shine

Mike A · « **Reply #87 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:28:34 pm »

Quote

Walk away for 15 min (depending on conditions, I smoke A lucky and mix a new batch of color in that time) But Not telling you to smoke, Mike A would get all offended. ...

I an not offended Jen. I am just worried about your health.

I need you around so when I am 85 I can tell you that I learned how to weld.

Gilrock · « **Reply #88 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:36:20 pm »

Thanks for the detailed reply. I was somewhat close to that. I did quick overlapping passes using horizontal strokes and then I did another set of overlapping passes but used long vertical strokes. I'm in the habit of starting and stopping out past the edge of the wood. I've watched enough videos to learn that part.

The only thing I'm not sure I can do is make the paint any thicker. This is oil based and is already super thin. This time with the gun I made sure the pressure valve was fully open since I had partially closed it before. And I screwed the flow knob all the way in till it shutoff and then backed it out till I was getting a light spray. I was pretty happy with how it felt when it sprayed this time. Most of the issues seemed to be more with not having a perfect surface than any spraying issue except for being stuck with the thinness of the paint.

jennifer · « **Reply #89 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:05:07 pm »

On that first tack coat then, Turn your pressure down a little, it will leave thicker heavier pimples which will hide more and get a thicker mil base, Doning this however do not let it dry or you will get horrible orange peel, Once you get a good sticky coverage, turn your pressure back up a bit and just keep going around the cab right into your second coat.

jennifer · « **Reply #90 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:42:11 pm »

Back that fluid needle out...Take the knob off completly, and then thread it back on about 1 turn. (Don't forget there is a spring on there)...Your trigger should pull back full range now, When spraying only pull it back about half way to control amount. That may help you, since you won't be limited to the stop, or potentially bending the needle, and you can adjust amount on the fly by how far you pull the trigger, critical on large areas like that.

Gilrock · « **Reply #91 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:55:36 pm »

I should video my next spraying attempt so it can be easier to show what I'm doing instead of me describing it.

Gilrock · « **Reply #92 on:** April 11, 2019, 09:59:50 am »

So this is what has happened to me every time I try to apply a thicker coating. When I tried to describe this before people thought I was talking about "orange peel". I didn't think this is what people called orange peel. I call it divots like the paint is allergic to the wood in a few spots. I thought orange peel was more of a more uniform bumpiness across the surface. I've even had these things not be visible at first and then form as the paint dries. I've never seen this happen with latex only this oil based paint. The first time I thought it was something on the surface of the wood like oil from my fingers so I've tried using denatured alcohol to clean the surface before spraying. I've tried using another product called after wash which is supposed to clean the wood after you have used the paint stripper product. I've wondered if it could be tiny amounts of cleaner that are stuck in the spray gun from when I cleaned up after last use. It just only seems to show like this when I do thicker coats that have that good shine.

javeryh · « **Reply #93 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:57:18 am »

Do those spots appear in the same spot every time or is it always different? If they are in the same spots, you have an issue with the cabinet (try sanding and adding a layer of bondo instead of just another layer of paint) but if it is in different spots you have an issue with the paint (or the spray gun). Not sure how to correct that...

Mike A · « **Reply #94 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:03:51 pm »

I applaud your patience man. I would have used gasoline and a match by now. And I would have thrown the sprayer on top of the fire just to watch it suffer.

jennifer · « **Reply #95 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:10:50 pm »

You are so very close man... What you got there is called fisheyes, A contamination... Most likely water from the compressor, drain your tank, add a water trap bulb to the end of your gun, (cheap) lightly fill the problem areas again sand it down as far as you dare without hitting wood...And you are golden.

Gilrock · « **Reply #96 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:22:07 pm »

Hmm...well there is no "tank" it's a turbine compressor but I'll still see what I can find for filtering near the gun.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NPPNM

jennifer · « **Reply #97 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:37:22 pm »

That seems like a fun little set up... It doesn't seem to have a tank, but what you got there is contamination coming from somewhere, hose, oil blow by, silicone in your work area, resins in your wood, but normally water is the culprit, because you are actually squeezing the humidity out of the air of it by pressurizing it,...https://www.harborfreight.com/oilwater-separator-68246.html

Gilrock · « **Reply #98 on:** April 12, 2019, 01:57:36 pm »

Well I've sanded and sprayed 2 more times. I think I'm going to call it good for this side. There is only that one spot in the lower left that I might try to touch up but I don't think I want to risk spraying it again and things going backwards. I'm trying to decide if I should spray a clearcoat over it and let that dry before using the stencil. I've seen this metallic paint leave smears if I touch it even like 3 days later so I'd like to seal it where I could wipe off dust if needed before applying the stencil.

Gilrock · « **Reply #99 on:** April 12, 2019, 01:58:50 pm »

One video I saw they waited a week before using the stencil.

jennifer · « **Reply #100 on:** April 12, 2019, 05:06:20 pm »

That needs to not only be completely dry but also cured before stencil or clear, It will try to dry under the clear and you will get solvent pops (Pimples everywhere)...It will look like horse butt.

Gilrock · « **Reply #101 on:** April 12, 2019, 06:53:57 pm »

I knew I needed to wait before applying the stencil but wasn't sure about the clear paint. I didn't realize it was any different than putting on another coat of paint. So I gotta wait at least a week? Waiting sucks...lol.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #102 on:** April 12, 2019, 07:25:24 pm »

You gotta wait to paint, fine, what about dialing in the settings of those Joysticks, get your game on.. :-)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Gilrock · « **Reply #103 on:** April 12, 2019, 07:35:59 pm »

Quote from: Zeosstud on April 12, 2019, 07:25:24 pm

You gotta wait to paint, fine, what about dialing in the settings of those Joysticks, get your game on.. :-)

Yeah at this point I don't even know how those joysticks should feel. I gotta wait till it's setup and running to judge them.

Gilrock · « **Reply #104 on:** April 12, 2019, 08:15:02 pm »

I got a new toy today that will keep me busy till the paint dries.

Mike A · « **Reply #105 on:** April 13, 2019, 10:35:33 am »

Very nice.

Gilrock · « **Reply #106 on:** April 22, 2019, 10:43:21 am »

Well I've decided that aluminum metallic paint just isn't going to work. The problem I have with it is no matter how long I've waited for it to dry even after a week I cannot find anything that it can be wiped with that won't leave streaks. It's like it has some kind of graphite in the paint that gets lifted and smears. So I tried putting a coat of clear oil-based poly over top. When that dried it was great. It looked good and I could wipe it down with Isopropyl alcohol without any marks. I tested the surface by putting some painters tape on it near the bottom and then pulled it off and it seemed fine. So I went ahead and did the first blue stencil on that side. It was looking awesome then 1/3 of the way through pulling the stencil off I could see the blue paint was lifting and realized it was pulling up the poly layer. So I ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up that stencil. I was able to use a razor to grab edges and pulled the entire poly layer back off. So I guess since I wasn't able to touch the aluminum layer it was too smooth and the poly didn't bond. Now I gotta see if they can sell me just the one stencil piece since the other 3 pieces are just fine. Of course you email and then just sit here not hearing anything.

So I decided to try a different paint. Forget the metallic paint and just pick an oil-based grey color. I have to say this new grey paint is a completely different animal from the other paint so I'm having completely different issues but I think it will work out better. It's a thicker paint so I thinned it but I ended up with orange peel...first time I had seen that happen. I thought I had thinned it quite a bit...I'd estimate 20% and with my setup there is no way to increase pressure like I see recommended in videos. I tried just laying it on heavy since it was horizontal but the paint did not level out. After a couple hours I could tell it wasn't going to look right so I used paint thinner and rags and completely wiped off that attempt. I remixed a new batch and played with the adjustments practicing on a piece of spare wood. So I laid down another layer. It still didn't seem perfectly smooth but it wasn't as bad as that first time. I just left it as a really thin coat and I'll check out how it looks tonight. I feel like I'm getting a crash course on everything that can possibly go wrong on this one cab.

jennifer · « **Reply #107 on:** April 22, 2019, 11:50:23 am »

At this point I would start over, (not what you wanted to hear right?).....That would include changing your paint to at least a rustolium grade enamal, Set the cab on cardboard and starting at top strip it clean with paint stripper (W/mart sells 3 grades the extreme works well but does stink, read safety)...Wipe it down with the reducer for your new paint to neutralize striper, let dry...I would also be curious of your air pressure with that fancy compressor, A inline gun regulator with a Gage (from auto store) will tell the story, Put it on your gun then the watertrap, Then the hose...Don't feel bad it happens to everyone, Jenn has a redo issues with that pin, so very not happy.

Gilrock · « **Reply #108 on:** April 22, 2019, 12:33:42 pm »

I've already stripped it down twice so there's not as much paint on there as it might sound. And yesterday after removing the paint I had it sanded down smooth and it was a good starting surface. If I complete strip it now I'd basically be removing all the primer and then have to go through several primer iterations again to get it smooth. I thought this last spray looked pretty nice. I'm not going for perfect smoothness just want it to look uniform. With this paint I don't think I'll need to try to clear coat it before I stencil because its not metallic and won't have the issue I had with the other paint.

The specs say this sprayer is 9psi....I found this review about it:
https://paintingsilo.com/fuji-mini-mite-4-review/

Gilrock · « **Reply #109 on:** April 22, 2019, 07:41:20 pm »

Amazing how much easier it went now that I changed paint. I'm already happy with this side. It's not auto finish smooth by a long shot but from a couple feet away it looks great. Gonna work on stripping and redoing the other side next while I wait on a new stencil for the first layer. Just got an email back and they said this happens all the time where a customer wants just one part of the stencil replaced.

Mike A · « **Reply #110 on:** April 22, 2019, 08:18:53 pm »

Gilrock · « **Reply #111 on:** April 28, 2019, 05:06:18 pm »

I painted the stencil on one side this weekend. Had a few issues I'll know to look out for when I do the other side. One is I didn't cover the pacman shapes used for registration on the first blue layer so since they had pre-cut it I ended up with thin blue pacman lines in those 3 places. They don't warn you about it but I had watched a video from someone else doing a Robotron stencil and had seen them cover those spots so I just spaced it. I tried to use Iso Alcohol to remove the thin blue lines but it was discoloring the whole area so I stopped. Then I tried to just scratch off as much blue as I could and then I used a brush to spot paint those 3 areas. It actually doesn't look bad in the photo but if you get at a different angle and the light hit it you can see the brush strokes. I'm not sure how to make that look much better without messing things up and I'm not redoing the whole side. The other issue was I really needed to get help when pulling off the stencil since I needed 3 hands. Laying it flat was easier to paint but for pulling off the stencil vertical would have been better. There were a couple times where a piece of the stencil wanted to fall back onto the painted areas so I had a couple marks. Luckily it mainly happened on the blue and once the red was added it doesn't stand out much at all.

Trying to decide if I should paint a clear poly layer over this after it cures. Kinda nervous to do anything else cause if it goes bad it messes up the whole stencil.

Arroyo · « **Reply #112 on:** April 28, 2019, 05:11:39 pm »

Fantastic, really looks nice!!

Mike A · « **Reply #113 on:** April 28, 2019, 05:31:38 pm »

Nice.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #114 on:** April 28, 2019, 07:11:33 pm »

Looks really good, can not wait to see the rest when it is done.. You gotta be getting a little excited.. I mean, eventually you do have to actually play it, you know that right??

Zeosstud

Laythe · « **Reply #115 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:06:00 pm »

Props for going the stencil route! That looks awesome.

Gilrock · « **Reply #116 on:** May 01, 2019, 09:34:08 am »

A few updates:

Stencil: Gotta give props to This Old Game. It appears they are sending a replacement for the one stencil sheet I messed up and they only charged me the shipping. I was fully expecting to pay about 25% of the original cost so that was a nice surprise.

Joysticks: Got the ArcadeShop Wicos removed and installed the rebuilt Wicos that AndrewB from KLOV made for me. The ArcadeShop sticks were really stiff so I like these rebuilt ones. I'm curious if everyone sets the leafs so that they require only a tiny amount of movement to make contact. One good thing is I believe I will get to play on an original cab this weekend so I'm anxious to get the feel of those joysticks for comparison.

CP Wiring: Got all the wiring on the control panel done. I kept it simple and used the premade jamma harness cables that I bought for the JROK board. I needed to design a standoff for the 2 leaf switches for the player 1 & 2 buttons. So I designed a u-shaped part with the 2 holes that perfectly match the leaf switch and kept it 0.35" off the board. I don't even know how to run our 3D printer because I let my son build it so I had to text him in college and he had me turn on his PC and next thing you know I see the mouse moving around and he's remoted in and sets up the job so all I had to do was power up the printer and the PC and he got my parts printed. They worked perfect.

Gameplay: Now that I had enough pieces to try it out I played a few games last night. I was having to try to hold the control panel in my lap so it wasn't optimal but I'm excited because I felt like I was doing so much better than I usually do on my MAME cab. I've been playing a ton of hours on my MAME cab lately. I'm curious to know what the default settings are on the JROK board because it just felt so much easier. I've been playing difficulty level 5 on MAME. I felt like I was in the Matrix where everything was slowed down a slight bit and I could dodge things that normally kill me. In MAME I feel like I'm always being killed and thinking no way my bullet just rendered on the other side of the guy that killed me. I assume if I get the test and service inputs wired up I'd be able to get to the Robotron settings screens.

meltman · « **Reply #117 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:17:43 pm »

The stencil looks phenomenal.

Excited to see this one completed.

wp34 · « **Reply #118 on:** May 01, 2019, 01:31:36 pm »

That turned out great. Made it worth all your attention to detail with the painting.

Gilrock · « **Reply #119 on:** May 02, 2019, 01:07:39 am »

Wow I now understand the hype about the original Wico joysticks. I'm spoiled I cannot play the game on my MAME cab anymore. I'm choosing to sit there balancing the control panel in my lap instead cause it feels so awesome. I'm already feeling like I have better reflexes and I'm making moves near enemies without running into them as much. It probably part joystick as well as no LCD input lag. I can't wait to get the cab running so I don't have to balance the control panel when playing.


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