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Author Topic: Pac-Man Legion  (Read 102119 times)

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Jimbo

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #120 on: May 05, 2021, 03:23:37 pm »
I want to see that 27" crt lowered into it like an engine.

greased lightning

pbj

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #121 on: May 05, 2021, 04:11:55 pm »
Cracked neck goes pssssssssst


bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #122 on: May 05, 2021, 04:37:19 pm »
Cracked neck goes pssssssssst

Always the optimist
 :lol
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #123 on: May 06, 2021, 05:54:59 pm »
I have a ton of other stuff to be getting on with but I'm going to spend a few dedicated hours this morning working on this.  See where I get to.  Yeah the big old heavy CRT needs to be rigged up so I can lower it into the cabinet.  Cracking the neck on the CRT is a risk for sure, but I'm more concerned about just getting the CRT working really well with an optimal image.  I have an idea about that:  The cabinetry will take some time with woodworking and painting and all the rest. I want to work on the CRT in parallel so that by the time the cabinet work is all done the CRT and Groovymame setup is well and truly tuned and ready. I'm going to build a quick n dirty test frame for the CRT to allow me to work safely on it while I build the cabinet.

I'm knowledgeable to a point with electronics i.e. I know enough to get by, but at some point I'll probably need to reach out to experts here like Zebidee or someone to get the best from the CRT.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #124 on: May 06, 2021, 11:33:00 pm »



bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #125 on: May 07, 2021, 12:43:20 am »
I like the way that control panel is shaping up!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #126 on: May 07, 2021, 11:17:14 pm »






Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #127 on: May 09, 2021, 09:42:57 pm »



« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 09:46:19 pm by Ond »

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #128 on: May 10, 2021, 10:36:20 am »
Just found and been reading through this thread... oh wow  :o

This machine is a work of art, Ond. When complete, you could keep this baby in your lounge room... or in a gallery.

Glad you are going CRT this time.
Check out my completed projects!


javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #129 on: May 10, 2021, 11:18:48 am »
I’m actually at a loss as to what is going on - the control panel is way more complex than the original render made it seem.  Looks like you are creating some support “fins” (for lack of a better term) with spacers in between each one.  I am very curious to see how this is going to interact with the curved and stained wood panel.   Do you have to cut slots in it for the fins to poke through?

I love where this is going…

bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #130 on: May 10, 2021, 01:12:54 pm »
My guess is that the outer frame of the control panel supports will also be the brqce for the tube brackets.

Getting all that activity into that small of a space is a challenge from a design standpoint.
This is a very elegant way to address those issues!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #131 on: May 11, 2021, 07:39:51 pm »
Just found and been reading through this thread... oh wow  :o

This machine is a work of art, Ond. When complete, you could keep this baby in your lounge room... or in a gallery.

Glad you are going CRT this time.

Thanks Zebidee, I have a feeling I'll be chatting to you in the near future about CRT stuff  ;D

I’m actually at a loss as to what is going on - the control panel is way more complex than the original render made it seem.  Looks like you are creating some support “fins” (for lack of a better term) with spacers in between each one.  I am very curious to see how this is going to interact with the curved and stained wood panel.   Do you have to cut slots in it for the fins to poke through?

I love where this is going…

You are basically right about the supports or fins ha hah.  Not just slots but a rectangle cutout is to be cut into the curved panels.  This cutout will accommodate the fins but will also serve as the aperture for a speaker and cooling airflow.  A sexy grill will be covering the cutout.  More on that later...

My guess is that the outer frame of the control panel supports will also be the brqce for the tube brackets.

Getting all that activity into that small of a space is a challenge from a design standpoint.
This is a very elegant way to address those issues!

It's a squeeze alright but I'm edging closer to the big test - dropping the crt from above and seeing if everything fits  :-\

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #132 on: May 12, 2021, 01:11:04 am »
I'm guessing here... these blocks are to hold a bracket that holds the tube? Wooden brackets sit on the flat, cutoff corner bit? Or are you planning to drop the tube pegs directly onto those blocks?

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Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #133 on: May 12, 2021, 01:57:42 am »
I'm guessing here... these blocks are to hold a bracket that holds the tube? Wooden brackets sit on the flat, cutoff corner bit? Or are you planning to drop the tube pegs directly onto those blocks?



It's a good guess but no, none of that timber work will support the tube.  In fact the tube will be entirely supported by the marine ply 'collar' I devised which fits around the tube mounting bracket seen here:

If you look at the top of the side panel you can see the rebate where this collar will sit.  (it will be bolted in, not just hang there with gravity  :lol)
In the original television's plastic casing, the tube was simply held in place by four bolts at each corner of the tube.  Although my solution is a little more robust, it still resembles the way the tube was 'slung' only now it is horizontal.  The thick MDF panels reinforced with steel plate will take all the weight of the tube. Internal bracketing in the cabinet will ensure the overall cabinet is  rigid and strong.  At least...that's the plan  :P

I hope all that makes sense, just follow along and we'll be there soon enough!

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #134 on: May 12, 2021, 03:39:15 am »
Gotcha, I was hoping you'd show me something like that.

With your collar - I've found an easier way to mount CRTs. Just cut the middle out of the collar, leaving 2 pieces in a rough U shape. The middle parts don't actually add anything significant structurally so can be removed. For the edges that come to the corner pegs, cut that at 45 degrees (rather than a curve) and it will always come to the corner pegs optimally. You can then just slide the two pieces to the tube so that they always fit perfectly. Not better than what you've done, just easier.

This is easier to cut - no need to use a router, just a skill saw or jigsaw will do the job. Doesn't have to be terribly precise, doesn't have to look pretty either as nobody will ever see it once covered by a bezel.



In that photo above the CRT wasn't even screwed down yet! It was just hanging there (now secured).

You will also want to cut a couple of blocking pieces to go behind. This can just be any straight pieces of scrap wood, here I just used some 1x1 inch blocking pieces.

I used T-nuts like these to secure the tube:



If these pics look familiar, I've posted them long time ago on one of javeryh's build threads http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161994.msg1719883.html#msg1719883

It was commented there that maybe i should sticky this (instead of photo-bombing your thread!).

I still haven't progressed that cab any further though  :(
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Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #135 on: May 16, 2021, 02:59:03 am »
Thanks for that info Zebidee, I'm glad I'm on the right track with mounting the CRT  :cheers:

progress:












Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #136 on: May 16, 2021, 04:10:06 am »
Forgive me if you've covered this already - are you going to leave the woodgrain from the plywood exposed at the ends? I hope you are because I think it looks awesome even in the unfinished state it is in those photos.

There is a nice grain and the warm redness of the wood shines through. The way you've curved the pieces makes it look even better because it is obviously real wood (not some simple plastic molded thingy).
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Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #137 on: May 16, 2021, 05:16:11 am »
I hear you on making the most of the real wood on the cabinet.  I do need to give some thought to durability though, splintering on edges etc.  It's one of the last things I'll do in the build, so we'll see what works best and looks good too.

I have two questions for anyone who'd like to give it some thought:

1. The first is about the choice/brand of joysticks to go in this.  I'd like to keep this cabinet as 'old school' as possible in terms of hardware and functionality.  The machine will only ever have 4 way games on it.  That means a few variations of Pac-Man and one or two other 4 way games. I'd like to use the best 4-way leaf spring sticks I can get.  Suggestions welcome.

2. The machine will never have a menu system.  When you switch it on it will simply load up a game like a single game machine.  On the side panel without a coin door there will be a small hatch.  Behind it some switches (or something) to choose the game the machine loads.  I started thinking about a dip-switch row hooked into an Arduino for game selection but I'd welcome other ideas or variations on that.  The more simple, the better.   I'd be very happy to offer something back for a good idea by way of thanks.


Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2021, 08:06:05 am »
MiSTer will do what you want - allow you to boot into same game everytime. You can change it via hidden menu options. According to reports anyway.

You could control access to that hidden menu via your discrete panel.

Unfortunately my MiSTer hasn't (fully) arrived/isn't complete yet, so can't comment more.
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javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2021, 10:07:12 am »
I have been very happy with my JLFs for 4-way games.  I’ve had one in my Donkey Kong for years and I just love the feel.

You will be able to have more than just a couple of games - especially if you add a button or two.  I’m putting a list together for my 4-way cab that’s under construction and this is my list so far:

Quote
Amidar
Astro Blaster
Astro Invader
Bagman
Burger Time
Circus Charlie
Crush Roller
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong II
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong, Jr.
Eyes
Frogger
Galaga
Galaxian
Gaplus
Gorf
Jr. Pac-Man
Jumping Jack
Ladybug
Mappy
Moon Cresta
Ms. Pac-Man
Mr. Do!
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Nibbler
Pac-Man
Pac & Pal
Pac-Man Plus
Pandora's Palace
Pepper II
Pengo
Phoenix
Pooyan
Qix
Rally-X
Satan's Hallow
Space Invaders
Super Bagman
Super Pac-Man
The End

Now, these aren’t all “essential” but a tight list of 20 games would work great on your cabinet.

Jimbo

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #140 on: May 16, 2021, 10:17:34 am »
Ond, if you can wait a few weeks, I hope to have my in-depth 4-way joystick comparison video done.  I've got 12 different 4-way sticks to compare, 4 of them are leafs.

Javeryh... the JLF in 4-way mode that I have here, it looks like the diagonals can still be hit. I haven't wired it up yet but it certainly seems that it has 2 microswitches engaged at the same time when switching directions.  Have you noticed any problems with that in specific games?  Of course I'll be testing this myself in great detail soon anyway, but thought I'd ask.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 10:19:48 am by Jimbo »

javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #141 on: May 16, 2021, 10:24:54 am »
Ond, if you can wait a few weeks, I hope to have my in-depth 4-way joystick comparison video done.  I've got 12 different 4-way sticks to compare, 4 of them are leafs.

Javeryh... the JLF in 4-way mode that I have here, it looks like the diagonals can still be hit. I haven't wired it up yet but it certainly seems that it has 2 microswitches engaged at the same time when switching directions.  Have you noticed any problems with that in specific games?  Of course I'll be testing this myself in great detail soon anyway, but thought I'd ask.
I honestly haven’t noticed and I’ve played A LOT of Donkey Kong and Pac-Man over the years.  Not that it would matter but mine is around 15 years old - maybe the design changed slightly over time?  Next time I fire it up I’ll specifically see if I can get diagonal movement out if it.

I’m super interested in your review - I’m about to buy 2 more sticks but I’ll definitely hold off if there is something better.

bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2021, 05:20:55 pm »
This is a great thread.

Looking forward to all of these questoons being answered!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #143 on: May 16, 2021, 10:35:35 pm »
Thanks for the quick initial thoughts guys.

So to refine the scope of possible solutions, this machine will be PC based with Groovymame, probably on Win7 OS.

Ond, if you can wait a few weeks, I hope to have my in-depth 4-way joystick comparison video done.  I've got 12 different 4-way sticks to compare, 4 of them are leafs.

Javeryh... the JLF in 4-way mode that I have here, it looks like the diagonals can still be hit. I haven't wired it up yet but it certainly seems that it has 2 microswitches engaged at the same time when switching directions.  Have you noticed any problems with that in specific games?  Of course I'll be testing this myself in great detail soon anyway, but thought I'd ask.

I can wait a few weeks Jimbo.  It will take a few weeks just to get up controls set-up anyway.

I already have JLFs but they are micro-switch based.  I really want to go with leaf-switch based sticks.

These look really interesting (pre-set to 4 way) C'mon Randy talk them up! Testify!:


This is a great thread.

Looking forward to all of these questoons being answered!

 ;D Glad you're enjoying buddy, we are nearly up to the sexy stuff, wave bye bye to raw MDF!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 10:38:29 pm by Ond »

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #144 on: May 17, 2021, 02:51:57 am »
;D Glad you're enjoying buddy, we are nearly up to the sexy stuff, wave bye bye to raw MDF!

Ond, how are the plywood prices these days back home?
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wp34

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #145 on: May 17, 2021, 07:55:17 am »
I love the contrast of the different materials you are using with this OND.  Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.   :cheers:

This is the joystick I have in my Pac Man cocktail.  These have a better feel (for Pac-type games anyway) than Wico 4-ways IMHO.  I replaced a NOS Wico with one of these after trying both.

https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=402

They are out of stock right now though.


Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #146 on: May 18, 2021, 12:52:50 am »
Ond, how are the plywood prices these days back home?

Pretty good lately, Marine ply seems to be priced just a little more than softwood (structural ply).  If a sheet of structural 600 x1200 is at $24 then the same sized (and thickness) sheet in Marine ply will be a few dollars more at around $32.

I love the contrast of the different materials you are using with this OND.  Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.   :cheers:

This is the joystick I have in my Pac Man cocktail.  These have a better feel (for Pac-type games anyway) than Wico 4-ways IMHO.  I replaced a NOS Wico with one of these after trying both.

https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=402

They are out of stock right now though.

Thanks wp34, that's exactly the sort of info I'm looking for.  Those sticks have a short throw compared to the ones I mentioned.

No other suggestions from anyone for a switch selection to replace a GUI menu for the game to boot into?  :)


I worked on the other 'end' panel today.  Check out the blasphemer adding moisture to MDF to fix the curve (and drying it out again).  :laugh2:







Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #147 on: May 18, 2021, 01:19:09 am »
I can see that Bobby's going to love this bit
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bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #148 on: May 18, 2021, 02:21:33 am »
Zebidee is right of course...

That's what it's all about right there!
 :lol

The Eames boys got nothing on you there daddio.

Even easier finish work if you have woven cloth laying around to use.
 ;)
After using good cloth on boards for so long I really hate trying to wet out chop mat

As masochistic as it sounds, after following your work here Ond I'm actually looking forward to another "unconventional" build now.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #149 on: May 18, 2021, 06:37:16 am »
I'm all for unconventional builds bobby, I look forward to seeing it!  8)

I ducked out to the workshop one last time tonight.  Beauty coat 1 of 3:



As soon as the glass is set on the other end I'll attach it to the Marine Ply braces, veneer and stain it.

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #150 on: May 18, 2021, 07:43:43 am »
As soon as the glass is set on the other end I'll attach it to the Marine Ply braces, veneer and stain it.

Is that PVA glue?

What veneer/stain are you going to use? Or were you thinking to give it another light sand and go tung oil?

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javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #151 on: May 18, 2021, 12:22:42 pm »
No other suggestions from anyone for a switch selection to replace a GUI menu for the game to boot into?  :)

What about an RFID solution?  You could put a reader behind the coin door with an area to hold small panel or token with the RFID tag on the back (labeled to look like whatever game is on the tag) that will cause that game to boot.  Or maybe there is a way to make it with magnets and put the RFID reader on the inside of the coin door and the tag can stick to it magnetically?  I'm sure you could think of a much more elegant solution but RFID tags are cool as hell.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 12:24:14 pm by javeryh »

wp34

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #152 on: May 18, 2021, 12:42:13 pm »
No other suggestions from anyone for a switch selection to replace a GUI menu for the game to boot into?  :)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but tony.silveira posted about his new Stream Deck and it looks really fascinating to me.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165098.0.html

https://smile.amazon.com/Elgato-Stream-Deck-Controller-customizable/dp/B06XKNZT1P/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=stream+deck&qid=1621356077&sr=8-3




Vigo

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #153 on: May 18, 2021, 12:57:40 pm »
Since you are talking arduino, I would suggest just a four position selector dial knob, especially if you are set what it will play. Then on the surface the knob is mounted on, just put 4 pictures or text of the games you will have playable at each position, and you can spiff it up with some lights that the arduino programs to light up as well.

This is the first google image that somewhat matches what I am thinking about.


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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #154 on: May 18, 2021, 01:04:53 pm »
No other suggestions from anyone for a switch selection to replace a GUI menu for the game to boot into?  :)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but tony.silveira posted about his new Stream Deck and it looks really fascinating to me.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165098.0.html

https://smile.amazon.com/Elgato-Stream-Deck-Controller-customizable/dp/B06XKNZT1P/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=stream+deck&qid=1621356077&sr=8-3

That thing is awesome. Makes me wish I had more time to tinker with those kind of things. Could do like an intellivision with overlays.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #155 on: May 18, 2021, 01:19:08 pm »
No other suggestions from anyone for a switch selection to replace a GUI menu for the game to boot into?  :)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but tony.silveira posted about his new Stream Deck and it looks really fascinating to me.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165098.0.html

https://smile.amazon.com/Elgato-Stream-Deck-Controller-customizable/dp/B06XKNZT1P/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=stream+deck&qid=1621356077&sr=8-3

That thing is awesome. Makes me wish I had more time to tinker with those kind of things. Could do like an intellivision with overlays.
Interesting idea.  I'd prefer the original controller if possible but anything to play an Intellivision game....

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #156 on: May 18, 2021, 02:32:39 pm »
No other suggestions from anyone for a switch selection to replace a GUI menu for the game to boot into?  :)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but tony.silveira posted about his new Stream Deck and it looks really fascinating to me.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165098.0.html

https://smile.amazon.com/Elgato-Stream-Deck-Controller-customizable/dp/B06XKNZT1P/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=stream+deck&qid=1621356077&sr=8-3

That thing is awesome. Makes me wish I had more time to tinker with those kind of things. Could do like an intellivision with overlays.
Interesting idea.  I'd prefer the original controller if possible but anything to play an Intellivision game....

Back when I was trying too hard to get every console emulator running on my cabinet I would have really wanted one of these.  I'm not exactly sure how I would use it now but it is really cool.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #157 on: May 18, 2021, 03:23:51 pm »
Since you are talking arduino, I would suggest just a four position selector dial knob, especially if you are set what it will play. Then on the surface the knob is mounted on, just put 4 pictures or text of the games you will have playable at each position, and you can spiff it up with some lights that the arduino programs to light up as well.
If you want more than 4 games, you can easily find a rotary switch that will work.
- This listing offers switches with up to 10 positions.  https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Salon-1PCS-Rotary-Switch-Knob/dp/B018LZOESO/?th=1

Keywords used to describe rotary switches include poles, throws, and decks.
- The most important consideration is the number of throws (positions) >= number of game options.
- The least important consideration is the number of decks.  More decks = usually more complicated and expensive.
- The number of poles/decks can be important if you want to control the LEDs without using Arduino programming. (i.e. use 1 pole/deck for game selection and 1 pole/deck for LED lighting)

For example, this is a single deck "2P4T" -- two pole, four throw.
- The middle brown fiber layer rotates with the knob/shaft. (single deck)
- The two pole contacts are in the middle circle and the four throw contacts for each pole are on the outside circle.
- When the top pole contacts the top right throw, the bottom pole contacts the bottom left throw.
- There is a mechanical connection (the dashed line in the 2P6T schematic) but no electrical connection between the top pole/contacts and the bottom pole/contacts.

   

Another possible consideration is whether the switch is "make before break" (pole loses contact with one throw contact after making contact with the next one) or "break before make". (pole loses contact with one throw contact before making contact with the next one)
- Mechanical rotary joysticks like the Happ and LS-30 used "make before break" switches.
- For your application, I don't see this being an issue.  Worst case, you have a split second with two LEDs lit and two Arduino inputs triggered.


Scott

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #158 on: May 18, 2021, 08:29:12 pm »
Your mame cabinet ain’t gonna like a constant input

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #159 on: May 18, 2021, 11:06:05 pm »
With an arduino, would’t you just base the input to trigger only when the selection switch is changed?