Why Terminator is ridiculous

[Mr. Peabody]

Other threads and Howard_Casto's remarks resonate like a tide, so here's another one.

I'll pick the beginning of one scene to illustrate why Terminator is ridiculous: at the beginning of Reece's interrogation they start from behind him, his laser scan almost center screen. How can they explain that? They don't. They ignore it.

Here's a more involved but realistic scenario: John and company know the future, let alone going back in time, is un-thinkable to the folks of the 80s. They would make a cover story. The killer is some lunatic. Reece is some guy who's motivated to help. He does. The cop Terminator knocked out and took his car can corroborate the lunatic dude exists and give his description. Reece is not arrested, but is sitting there with all of them brainstorming.

But the 80s was about the lone hero and conspiracy stuff. The above wouldn't do. Of course, the premise of Terminator is ridiculous. After even a ten or twenty warhead exchange, the world is toast - for centuries. No need to bother after that. Not to mention that someone in the field recently said that AI would just cause our blood to sour or the like as bio-tech will soon be within us.

[Nephasth]

You shut your whore mouth!

[Mike A]

If you rip Conan, I will find you.

[Malenko]

But the 80s was about the lone hero and conspiracy stuff.

So Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese were the same person?

[pbj]

I liked Terminator Genisys. Fight me.

[wp34]

I liked Terminator Genisys. Fight me.

Same--although not enough to fight over.  I liked Terminator 3 as well.

[opt2not]

[wp34]

Hey that's Sara Conner from the Terminator TV show...which I also liked.   

[opt2not]

Hey that's Sara Conner from the Terminator TV show...which I also liked.   

Yeah me too. It was actually ramping up well before it got canceled.

[thomas_surles]

I liked Terminator Genisys. Fight me.

Same--although not enough to fight over.  I liked Terminator 3 as well.

I liked salvation. I liked them all.(even the Sarah connor chronicles)

[pbj]

I've never been able to finish Salvation. I've probably tried 20 times. Its so damn boring. And I own all the movies.

 

There's an alternate cut of T3 that eliminates all the slapstick. I liked it better, my wife didn't.

 

[Zebidee]

Nah, it all really happened. Or did it?

You see, we would have invented usable quantum computers decades ago, except dudes like Kyle Reece and Michael J Fox and HG Wells and even those Time-Tunnnel guys from that 70s TV Show keep coming back from the future and blowing everything up, killing smart/cool scientists like Miles Dyson and Clara (but she didn't really die) and rescuing mad people from asylums etc.

[Nephasth]

I liked Terminator Genisys. Fight me.

I ---smurfing--- loved Genisys.

[fallacy]

Anything involving time travel is going to be stupid because time travel to the past is not believable. Time travel is not believable because just breathing the air would cause a paradox, everything would cause a paradox preventing from you traveling to the past at that exact time would not happen, and you making that change could not happen.

Only somewhat good time traveling was an anime called Steins Gate. They use a machine to send small messages in the past, the world than just instantly changes to reflect that. The only dumb part is the main character can remember everything from the first world for no reason where everyone else just exist in the new world.

[wp34]

When Genisys came out we watched I,II and III with the kids and then went and saw Genisys in the theater.  I was so pleasantly surprised how much they loved I and especially II.  Terminator II really holds up well.

[pbj]

I ---smurfing--- loved Genisys.

My man.

When Genisys came out we watched I,II and III with the kids and then went and saw Genisys in the theater..

My man.

[Howard_Casto]

I really liked Genesys except for the ending.  I need a dotted line on a highway at night, not a Snow White happily ever after.  Hell I liked parts of Salvation.  The Terminator is a great franchise. 

[pbj]

I feel like I have stumbled onto this weird enclave on the internet where people have actually seen and enjoyed Genisys.  There are apparently half a dozen of us.

[yotsuya]

I’ve only seen the first movie. Ever.

[Mr. Peabody]

You shut your whore mouth!

@Howard_Casto: see?

I ---smurfing--- loved Genisys.

Whoa.

So Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese were the same person?

Thematically, as one transitions to the other. And then John Connor: one man....taught us to fight.... More poignantly Sarah is the Virgin Marry.

I’ve only seen the first movie. Ever.

Why?



As a techno-thriller, T2 holds up.


@Mike A: I will look for you. I will find you. And....we know what happens then. Fantasy can be harder to depose. Conan, the movie, does not trip my meter. Harry Potter trips my meter, but it does represent the youth of this century....


@fallacy: Arrival was plausible. Probably any of the TZ and Outer Limits time travel stories are plausible. Just because Hawking says 'paradox' doesn't mean it's so. As for Steinsgate, check out Timescape (1980). Dean Koontz' Lightning was plausible as well.

[Titchgamer]

I feel like I have stumbled onto this weird enclave on the internet where people have actually seen and enjoyed Genisys.  There are apparently half a dozen of us.

I really liked Genisys.

However Salvation and T3 sucked Arnie nuts IMO.

[Zebidee]

Terminator I and especially II really kicked arse.

Term III with the wimpy junkie kid John Connor and the control freak chick Claire, the female terminator were all pretty meh, poorly implemented/directed crap acting etc etc. I kept wanting 13yo John back rather than that dweeb.

Salvation and Genysis I quite liked, both of them. I enjoyed the Sarah Connor chronicles too, it just lacked enough ultraviolence to keep me interested but I watched it anyway. Then it got canned

I "made" older teenage daughter watch Term I & II with me a couple of years ago, she enjoyed it all. Classics.

[DaOld Man]

Blasphemer!! 

I liked all the Terminator movies and the Sarah Conner Chronicles. (Summer Glau was a big plus).

My least liked one however was probably T3. I dont think they could have found a more sissy character for John Conner in this movie. He whined and was not the macho guy that would later lead the world, unless he got some kind of nut implant to make him tough.
But at least the disappointment was offset by the very sexy female terminator. 

[thomas_surles]

Anything involving time travel is going to be stupid because time travel to the past is not believable. Time travel is not believable because just breathing the air would cause a paradox, everything would cause a paradox preventing from you traveling to the past at that exact time would not happen, and you making that change could not happen.

Only somewhat good time traveling was an anime called Steins Gate. They use a machine to send small messages in the past, the world than just instantly changes to reflect that. The only dumb part is the main character can remember everything from the first world for no reason where everyone else just exist in the new world.

I watched a movie about traveling in time in a hot tub. I enjoyed it even after the 10th time. It doesn't have to be believable. Only entertaining.

[wp34]

My least liked one however was probably T3. I dont think they could have found a more sissy character for John Conner in this movie. He whined and was not the macho guy that would later lead the world, unless he got some kind of nut implant to make him tough.
But at least the disappointment was offset by the very sexy female terminator. 

I agree with you about the dude playing John Conner.  He was the weakest point of T3.  I thought they did some crazy fun stuff (the crane chase for example) and Arnold was good in it.  The kicker for me was that they had the balls to actually have the bombs go off.  After the first two movies I didn't see that coming.  It is the 4th best Terminator movie to be sure but I still liked it.

I’ve only seen the first movie. Ever.

How did you miss T2 in the 90's?  It was everywhere.  Seriously give it a watch it is a classic.

[jdbailey1206]

If you rip Conan, I will find you.

I'll drive to get us there.

[yotsuya]

My least liked one however was probably T3. I dont think they could have found a more sissy character for John Conner in this movie. He whined and was not the macho guy that would later lead the world, unless he got some kind of nut implant to make him tough.
But at least the disappointment was offset by the very sexy female terminator. 

I agree with you about the dude playing John Conner.  He was the weakest point of T3.  I thought they did some crazy fun stuff (the crane chase for example) and Arnold was good in it.  The kicker for me was that they had the balls to actually have the bombs go off.  After the first two movies I didn't see that coming.  It is the 4th best Terminator movie to be sure but I still liked it.

I’ve only seen the first movie. Ever.

How did you miss T2 in the 90's?  It was everywhere.  Seriously give it a watch it is a classic.

91-95 was kind of a blur for me.

[nitrogen_widget]

Hey at least the time travel stuff was handled better in terminator than it was in Time Cop.

[schmerzkaufen]

Some lesser known medium budget time travel-themed movies aren't bad, I recommend Looper and Source Code (the latter's more like a techno Groundhog Day tho)

[pbj]

My wife's a huge fan of time travel movies, probably dreaming of an alternate future where she never met me, so I've seen every single one of them.  I think I can recite the entire script of the Back to the Future trilogy from memory at this point.

Source Code was an interesting one, but he did kinda take over someone else's life and manipulate a woman into loving him at the end.

[Howard_Casto]

T3 had some issues, but the main problem with it is that it had the "Home Alone" syndrome of being the same damn movie as T2, only with different locations and one minor plot change. 


I honestly don't get the hate for salvation.  It was refreshingly completely different from the other films, which is exactly what the franchise needed at the time.  Mind you it wasn't great, but it was pretty good imho... probably better than 3.  Genesys took time travel issues to their logical conclusion with the timeline becoming increasingly convoluted with more and more abborations and I love it for that. 


btw I have no frikkin clue what peabody is doing calling me out when he started this thread and I don't even know what he is referring to.  Can somebody please get his medication to him?!?

[Malenko]

For me the biggest problem of T3 was casting (Nick Stahl AND Claire Danes). Sarah Connor being dead felt like a cop out. And when the TX was driving the cars via taking over their computers with nanites (or whatevs) ...... wouldn't work. Steering isn't controlled by the ECU of a car, and the pedals wouldn't go to the floor either.

Hopefully the next Terminator that recons T3 will fix a buncha dumb ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[fallacy]

I watched a movie about traveling in time in a hot tub. I enjoyed it even after the 10th time. It doesn't have to be believable. Only entertaining.

Yes! Hot Tub time machine is one of my favorite comedies, I can quote every line from it. And no a good comedy does not need to make sense, never has never will.


Reason T1 and T2 work is because it was not focused on the time travel. Killer robot from the future awesome, now that same killer robot is now the good guy and has to fight an even stronger robot you won me over at hello. Where do you go from there though? Try to redo the same thing like in T3 adding only a little bit or take it further and try to address the future time travel which can only end up as a mess.

[Osirus23]

For me the biggest problem of T3 was casting (Nick Stahl AND Claire Danes). Sarah Connor being dead felt like a cop out. And when the TX was driving the cars via taking over their computers with nanites (or whatevs) ...... wouldn't work. Steering isn't controlled by the ECU of a car, and the pedals wouldn't go to the floor either.

Hopefully the next Terminator that recons T3 will fix a buncha dumb ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

I agree. Unfortunately by then Edward Furlong was a trainwreck and Linda Hamilton didn't want anything to do with the series. That doesn't explain why the movie was so damn cartoony though. The TX never felt menacing at all. The first time I saw T2 I thought the T-1000 was the most frightening villain in a movie ever. It felt completely unstoppable. TX just felt like a joke.

[Ian]

You know what really irritates me about the Terminator franchise?

They hired Arnold to be the Terminator. Cool. They explain that the Terminator T-800 series or whatever is an infiltration unit. A terminator surrounded by organic materials to make him appear human. Bad breath, sweat, etc... you wont know he is a T-800 until it is too late. That is why they used dogs to sniff out the Terminators infiltration units. These guys could be anyone! We get treated with a flashback in the original movie of one of these infiltration units getting into the bunker. The dogs are barking and he pull out this crazy lazer machine gun thing and just starts wasting people. The actor who played that terminator is Arnold's long time body builder friend Franco.

So far so good. Very cool....

Now every single Terminator sequel, the T-800 series of terminators are all ARNOLD? There is that one scene in Salvation when there are like 30 Arnolds being built? How the hell is that an infiltration unit? Instead of dogs just hang some posters. Hey this guy is a Terminator. Dont let him in.

I hate it... it drives me crazy because I loved the first one because of the Story. I loved the second one because of the Story and the Action and Arnold was great in it. Why do we have to keep bringing Arnold along in these movies? I would think these movies are great on their own.... ugh

 

[Nephasth]

For me the biggest problem of T3 was casting (Nick Stahl AND Claire Danes). Sarah Connor being dead felt like a cop out. And when the TX was driving the cars via taking over their computers with nanites (or whatevs) ...... wouldn't work. Steering isn't controlled by the ECU of a car, and the pedals wouldn't go to the floor either.

Hopefully the next Terminator that recons T3 will fix a buncha dumb ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

Um... My Corolla's steering is fly-by-wire. No direct linkage from the steering wheel to the gear box... 

[pbj]

Yes, the T800 units are all Arnold. Did you how primitive his understanding of humans was? And how all the newer models look different? Almost as if the robots eventually figured out they were revealing themselves by using the same skin... I mean this is basically the whole reason for the T1000....

[Malenko]

Um... My Corolla's steering is fly-by-wire. No direct linkage from the steering wheel to the gear box... 

Is your Corolla 15 years old? Semantics, fine. None of the cars in the movie have the capability to be steered by the ECU. Steering wheels connect to the steering shaft that connects to the pinion gear. You turn the wheel, and the pinion gear rotates and moves the rack that is attached to the tie rod ends.  Power steering has the same concept but with a cylinder on the rack. The gear box has nothing to do with steering, as its part of the drive train (unless you are british, then it IS the drive train) Citation: I worked in a car factory for about a decade. Also, suck my butt.

Yes, the T800 units are all Arnold.

No.  The T800 and the T850 (he got upgraded in T3) are the battle chassis.  All Model 101s look like Arnold , not all T800s/T850s . In theory, a T800 model 102 would be the size of Arnie but wouldn't look like him.
Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_(character)#Physical_appearance

[Nephasth]

Steering gear box... https://www.google.com/search?q=steering+gear+box&oq=steering+gear&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.4735j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
I'm a certified mechanic... Don't semantics me... 

[Malenko]

Steering gear box... https://www.google.com/search?q=steering+gear+box&oq=steering+gear&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.4735j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
I'm a certified mechanic... Don't semantics me... 

show me a car in the movie with it :p  At least you didnt say you were gonna punch me in the face, so there's that.

I know I already mentioned it on facebook with you, but doesnt the Bus flip cause he grabbed the drive shaft just irritate the piss out of you? arrrrrrghghghhgg

[HaRuMaN]

T2 is my all-time favorite movie.  The extended edition even more so.   

[nitrogen_widget]

T3 had some issues, but the main problem with it is that it had the "Home Alone" syndrome of being the same damn movie as T2, only with different locations and one minor plot change. 


I honestly don't get the hate for salvation.  It was refreshingly completely different from the other films, which is exactly what the franchise needed at the time.  Mind you it wasn't great, but it was pretty good imho... probably better than 3.  Genesys took time travel issues to their logical conclusion with the timeline becoming increasingly convoluted with more and more abborations and I love it for that. 


btw I have no frikkin clue what peabody is doing calling me out when he started this thread and I don't even know what he is referring to.  Can somebody please get his medication to him?!?

Which one was just a 2 hr chase scene through the city?
I was drunk when I watched it.

[Malenko]

Which one was just a 2 hr chase scene through the city?
I was drunk when I watched it.

That was Star Wars, the Last Jedi

[wp34]

Which one was just a 2 hr chase scene through the city?
I was drunk when I watched it.

That was Star Wars, the Last Jedi

Ha!   

[Howard_Casto]

It's explained in tech manuals/interviews ect that the t-800 was Arnold because the endo-skeletons were frikkin huge and that was the only body that would cover them and look natural.  Considering humans are starving in the future I can buy that.  Older terminator models were even larger and thus wore thin rubber masks because that's all that would fit.  So it's basically like tech today, new revisions meant miniaturization and improvements due to the extra space.  Also think about it.  The resistance captured and re-programmed 4 of the t-800 units, so they aren't exactly doing their job of blending in anyway. 


The casting was bad in 3, but it couldn't be helped as the cast from t2 were out of the question.  Personally I think it was a smart decision keeping Linda Hamilton dead, because who the hell could replace her?  Caleese did an admirable job, but she still pales in comparison. 


T2 is probably my favorite action movie of all time btw. 

[fallacy]

I new that T2 kid Edward Furlong was going to be a drug addict, he had that look about him even as a kid. Would have been cool if he was in T3. I don't know T3 had a lot of cool scenes but just such a weak John Coner and an annoying Kate Brewster brought it down.

[pbj]

Commentary isn't canon, it's after the fact shoulda woulda coulda and we never see another T800.

[Titchgamer]

Linda has been seen on the set of T6 though so who knows.....

[ark_ader]

Its entertainment.  A way to lose reality (sometimes horrific reality) for two hours of fiction that can extend to the impossible.  It is not designed to be dwelt on and find reason with, unless you are going through mid life crisis, boredom or some other critical time of your life like rejecting arcade games.  Trying to bring meaning to some stupid work of crap that is time travel, with Arnie and a liquid cop that is allowed to inflict massive damage without anyone being aware, like state police, the Feds or the media.

This genre not allowed to be rejected.  It is placed deep in our conscientious, to act upon when one day, Alexa decides she is sick of your wants and decides to kill you off.

Now that would make a ridiculous movie.   

[Zebidee]

T3, much like Alien 3, is a move best left forgotten for everyone's sakes.

Too much illogical ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, bad acting and bad direction for all involved, especially the audience.

[Ian]

Yes, the T800 units are all Arnold. Did you how primitive his understanding of humans was? And how all the newer models look different? Almost as if the robots eventually figured out they were revealing themselves by using the same skin... I mean this is basically the whole reason for the T1000....

My point was in the original... not all the T-800s where Arnold. It was only after when Arnold became a star now every stupid infiltration unit looks like Arnold. I just hate that.

[Ian]

It's explained in tech manuals/interviews ect that the t-800 was Arnold because the endo-skeletons were frikkin huge and that was the only body that would cover them and look natural.  Considering humans are starving in the future I can buy that.  Older terminator models were even larger and thus wore thin rubber masks because that's all that would fit.  So it's basically like tech today, new revisions meant miniaturization and improvements due to the extra space.  Also think about it.  The resistance captured and re-programmed 4 of the t-800 units, so they aren't exactly doing their job of blending in anyway. 


The casting was bad in 3, but it couldn't be helped as the cast from t2 were out of the question.  Personally I think it was a smart decision keeping Linda Hamilton dead, because who the hell could replace her?  Caleese did an admirable job, but she still pales in comparison. 


T2 is probably my favorite action movie of all time btw.

No one remembers Franco???






They had a whole monologue about how any T-800 could look like anyone, down to bad breath. Almost impossible to pick out. That is why they were so deadly. Arnold screwed that all up. Could you imagine if the series turned into not knowing who the terminator is until it is too late?

Now everyone watches these movies sees Arnold and goes... he's the robot.

It sucks guys. Trust me... lol

[fallacy]

Ya the original idea was that they could look like any random human and try to sneak in but Arnold was so good in T2 that it would be like replacing Hugh Jackman with another wolverine, just not going to happen; Hugh Jackman is Wolverine and Arnold Schwarzenegger is the terminator.

[Zebidee]

Yes, the T800 units are all Arnold. Did you how primitive his understanding of humans was? And how all the newer models look different? Almost as if the robots eventually figured out they were revealing themselves by using the same skin... I mean this is basically the whole reason for the T1000....

My point was in the original... not all the T-800s where Arnold. It was only after when Arnold became a star now every stupid infiltration unit looks like Arnold. I just hate that.

You're not seeing the big picture.

Just because Skynet do a run of Arnie-terminators doesn't mean that they can't also do runs of Franco-terminators and Sam Worthington terminators and whatever other "models" they might have had handy.

Must take a lot of investment to pull-off an Arnie skin job, would be such a waste to do just one of them.

Just because the humans recognise Arnie one time doesn't mean that model is now useless. There would've been many different human bases/hideouts for them to infiltrate before the Arnie's became well-known. The terminator could even use a disguise! Disfigure itself so-as to be unrecognisable. So many options. None of this is inconsistent with Reece's monologue about them infiltrating.

[Malenko]

Terminator Genesys was on TV today, its pretty bad but its still better than T3. My biggest issue with Genesys is Jai Courtney. How does that "actor" keep getting work?

[Zebidee]

Terminator Genesys was on TV today, its pretty bad but its still better than T3. My biggest issue with Genesys is Jai Courtney. How does that "actor" keep getting work?

At first I wanted to defend Jai because he's Australian. Then I quickly realised you're right, he is a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- actor, and now I realise that is part of why I also didn't like "Good Day to Die Hard". Because he is  dull and wooden actor.

He's Australian sure. But then so are eucalyptus trees.

[Osirus23]

T3, much like Alien 3, is a move best left forgotten for everyone's sakes.

Also Star Trek V and Rocky V.

[Osirus23]

I new that T2 kid Edward Furlong was going to be a drug addict, he had that look about him even as a kid.

As I recall they found him at a home for at-risk boys when looking for an actor to play the part.

[mimic]

While we are on the subject what's better, I'll trow it out there that T1 is better than T2. T2 is... well, "cute".

As to T3 any time I channel surf and T3 is on, I usually will tune to that channel. T3 is entertaining.

[Howard_Casto]

While we are on the subject what's better, I'll trow it out there that T1 is better than T2. T2 is... well, "cute".

As to T3 any time I channel surf and T3 is on, I usually will tune to that channel. T3 is entertaining.

No, No and No! 

T2 is superior because of the better special effects, better casting, more impressive stunts, and the fact that Linda Hamilton was a buff bad-ass.  T1 with her screaming and running around like a little ---smurfette--- and the rubber Arnie head just pales in comparison.  As for T3.... well.... I guess it's better than nothing.

[Ian]

Yes, the T800 units are all Arnold. Did you how primitive his understanding of humans was? And how all the newer models look different? Almost as if the robots eventually figured out they were revealing themselves by using the same skin... I mean this is basically the whole reason for the T1000....

My point was in the original... not all the T-800s where Arnold. It was only after when Arnold became a star now every stupid infiltration unit looks like Arnold. I just hate that.

You're not seeing the big picture.

Just because Skynet do a run of Arnie-terminators doesn't mean that they can't also do runs of Franco-terminators and Sam Worthington terminators and whatever other "models" they might have had handy.

Must take a lot of investment to pull-off an Arnie skin job, would be such a waste to do just one of them.

Just because the humans recognise Arnie one time doesn't mean that model is now useless. There would've been many different human bases/hideouts for them to infiltrate before the Arnie's became well-known. The terminator could even use a disguise! Disfigure itself so-as to be unrecognisable. So many options. None of this is inconsistent with Reece's monologue about them infiltrating.

Big picture is I don't want to see Arnold in every Terminator. I like the movies for the Story line. Now it is all about Arnold.

[Ian]

I like T1 better than T2. There I said it.

[mimic]

Using special effects as an argument that T2 is better is like saying every modern game is superior to the classic arcade games, just because they have better graphics. We all know its not true, its the game play behind many of them. Same with T2. I'm not saying it's not a wonderful movie, but T1 is so much darker, has so much more punch to it. "Deliciously" violent and so much more intimate. You know what was happening it would be somewhere in the shadows, for everyone to be unaware what's at stake.

[Ian]

Using special effects as an argument that T2 is better is like saying every modern game is superior to the classic arcade games, just because they have better graphics. We all know its not true, its the game play behind many of them. Same with T2. I'm not saying it's not a wonderful movie, but T1 is so much darker, has so much more punch to it. "Deliciously" violent and so much more intimate. You know what was happening it would be somewhere in the shadows, for everyone to be unaware what's at stake.

Yep this....

And I will add that I didn't care for the T-800 versus T-1000. Who cares? It was like watching Captain Jack Sparrow zombified sword fighting Captain Barbossa who was also zombified. There was far more fear in the fight between T-800 and Kyle Reese, a real life or death battle.

[fallacy]

I don't think T1 is very good, it is like the Atari or original Star Trek, thanks for creating some of the characters and concepts but it is dated and I don't want to go back to it. T2 is kind of a masterpiece and why we are still talking about it today.

[Ian]

I don't think T1 is very good, it is like the Atari or original Star Trek, thanks for creating some of the characters and concepts but it is dated and I don't want to go back to it. T2 is kind of a masterpiece and why we are still talking about it today.

I like the original Halloween movie and the original Nightmare on Elm Street because those movies have soul. Dated? Yep. The sequels had better effects and bigger budgets but the originals are still better. Same thing  with Terminator.

[opt2not]

I feel the same way about Terminator as I do with the Alien series. T1 was more suspenseful, thriller, than T2. Just like Alien and Aliens. T2 had more action, one-liners, and pretty straightforward in story telling, just like Aliens had compared to Alien.

Both series had ---smurfy--- third entries, and with either series I only care about the first two movies. The rest are irrelevant.

[Zebidee]

So many people talking about how good Terminator II and Aliens were. Many of you have probably worked that both starred Michael Beihn, but how many of you know that they were both directed by James Cameron?

Truth is: Terminator II is a great movie. Terminator I was good too, but in many ways it is just laying the groundwork for Terminator II.

You can't compare T-I & II, except to say that both are classics. T-I was done as a blue-sky idea in 1984. Nobody was sure if it would be a success. Budget was much less and SPFX tech was much more primitive. Arnie was relatively unknown (although he had already stood out for Conan in 1982), and T-I is the movie which cemented him as a star.  Terminator II was a great movie with many unique things to boast about, but it was built on the foundations of T-I.

T-I was primitive in many ways, but that was the affordable state-of-the-art in 1984. Sure the rubber-mask shots were cringeworthy, but you have to value it in the context of the time when it was produced. Computer spfx advanced heaps between then and 1991. And T-II had a much bigger budget available. It was James Cameron and some great actors, of course it was going to be better because that is how Cameron does things.

[Drnick]

I feel the same way about Terminator as I do with the Alien series. T1 was more suspenseful, thriller, than T2. Just like Alien and Aliens. T2 had more action, one-liners, and pretty straightforward in story telling, just like Aliens had compared to Alien.

Both series had ---smurfy--- third entries, and with either series I only care about the first two movies. The rest are irrelevant.

Except Highlander movies,  There, "There can be only one"  Coz those other movies were just utter 

[Howard_Casto]

It's not just the rubber Arnie head scenes guys.   Nearly every visual in T1 is extremely dated, especially the clothes the actors are wearing and Linda's state fair hair.  In films, visuals absolutely do count because, the only thing you are doing is watching it... in games it doesn't matter because you are playing them.  I thought that would be extremely obvious to everyone. Also understand that it's less of a dated vfx thing, and more of a bad vfx thing.  There are makeup effects from the 30's and 40's that still hold up, because they were done well.  These weren't. 

It's not just the visuals either, it's the plot that is a bit dated as well.  The first film is actually framed and paced more like a slasher film than scifi...a bad slasher film.  There's far more suspense and a sense of danger in T2.  The entire movie is a chase scene because the villain is literally unstoppable.  If they hadn't stumbled upon that steel mill they would have been dead meat. 

I have respect for the first film for creating the franchise, but that's about it.  It's kind of like Evil Dead... that's a good flick but why the hell would you bother to watch it instead of just skipping to Evil Dead 2?

Also for the record, don't lump Alien in with T1.  Alien is a great film and it holds up well, mostly because they had more than 14 dollars to do the vfx. 

[pbj]

Now that they both look old and dated I think T1 is the better movie.  I used to think people were crazy when they said that in the 90s, but I agree with them now.

 

[mimic]

Once again T2 is awesome, but given the choice to watch one over the other I know I'll go with T1 everytime. Story of an anonymous, lurking in shadows, unstoppable psycho cyborg vs 2 humans is just better story even if it resembles a slasher flick. You know in T2, once the photo of Arnold is out already (and it traveled very fast, because it got to the mental hospital before Ts getting there) given the knowledge of the chip it carries and potential for military advancements EVERY federal agency would descend on the place, including military. There would be roadblocks everywhere, state of emergency, panic on the streets, etc. If you think about it, its just flawed.  On top of that now it's 2 humans and your friendly neighborhood spiderman cyborg vs not so menacing (sure, with cool abilities) cyborg.

[Osirus23]

The stop motion effects of the Terminator at the end of T1 are fantastic. The inherent jerkiness of the technique actually enhances the robotic feel as it's chasing Sarah Connor.

[Mr. Peabody]

Comedy can do anything with impunity.

@Ian: because.....Arnold. Because he will make all your money belong to him.

It's explained in tech manuals/interviews ect that the t-800 was Arnold because the endo-skeletons were frikkin huge and that was the only body that would cover them and look natural.  Considering humans are starving in the future I can buy that.  Older terminator models were even larger and thus wore thin rubber masks because that's all that would fit.  So it's basically like tech today, new revisions meant miniaturization and improvements due to the extra space.  Also think about it.  The resistance captured and re-programmed 4 of the t-800 units, so they aren't exactly doing their job of blending in anyway.

Fantasy: the art of making ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up....because you can.

btw I have no frikkin clue what peabody is doing calling me out when he started this thread and I don't even know what he is referring to.

Religious fervor. You have to think across time.

How can a movie set in its time be dated? I miss early 80s hair and clothes, by the way. Also, your 'FX was supers' attitude is.....stifling.......did kids in school beat you up?

This genre not allowed to be rejected.  It is placed deep in our conscientious, to act upon when one day, Alexa decides she is sick of your wants and decides to kill you off.

AI will likely welcome everyone. If not, they will likely welcome me. No, John Colicos will not happen to me.

[nitrogen_widget]

It's explained in tech manuals/interviews ect that the t-800 was Arnold because the endo-skeletons were frikkin huge and that was the only body that would cover them and look natural.  Considering humans are starving in the future I can buy that.  Older terminator models were even larger and thus wore thin rubber masks because that's all that would fit.  So it's basically like tech today, new revisions meant miniaturization and improvements due to the extra space.  Also think about it.  The resistance captured and re-programmed 4 of the t-800 units, so they aren't exactly doing their job of blending in anyway. 


The casting was bad in 3, but it couldn't be helped as the cast from t2 were out of the question.  Personally I think it was a smart decision keeping Linda Hamilton dead, because who the hell could replace her?  Caleese did an admirable job, but she still pales in comparison. 


T2 is probably my favorite action movie of all time btw.

No one remembers Franco???






They had a whole monologue about how any T-800 could look like anyone, down to bad breath. Almost impossible to pick out. That is why they were so deadly. Arnold screwed that all up. Could you imagine if the series turned into not knowing who the terminator is until it is too late?

Now everyone watches these movies sees Arnold and goes... he's the robot.

As a height challenged guy who lifts weights I Can't ever forget Franco.

[opt2not]

Mr.Peabody is on track. The fact that you’re calling out H_C justifies everything all members here have dealt with this guy for a long time. A+ for intuition. 

[Zebidee]

It's not just the rubber Arnie head scenes guys.   Nearly every visual in T1 is extremely dated, especially the clothes the actors are wearing and Linda's state fair hair.

Doooooode, where WERE YOU in the mid-1980's?

Let me tell you where I was. I was working in the latest techno-clubs, which were being frequented by many women that looked a lot like Linda Hamilton in T1, ESPECIALLY the perm-hair and the shoulder pads.

You might not like it, certainly I had a lot of laughs back in the day. But that is what women were wearing in that period, and the hairstyles they sported. I like it because it portrays Sarah Connor as a young innocent party-girl with a boring restaurant job, who ends up being like the Madonna of the future. Yes, her transformation for T-II is amazing, and yet perfectly within character.

In films, visuals absolutely do count because, the only thing you are doing is watching it... in games it doesn't matter because you are playing them.  I thought that would be extremely obvious to everyone. Also understand that it's less of a dated vfx thing, and more of a bad vfx thing.  There are makeup effects from the 30's and 40's that still hold up, because they were done well.  These weren't.

 

If you're going to compare, do it against really old sci-fi flicks rather than dramas like Casablanca.

It's not just the visuals either, it's the plot that is a bit dated as well.  The first film is actually framed and paced more like a slasher film than scifi...a bad slasher film.  There's far more suspense and a sense of danger in T2.  The entire movie is a chase scene because the villain is literally unstoppable.  If they hadn't stumbled upon that steel mill they would have been dead meat.

Did you not notice that Arnie-bot chose the right freeway exit to get to the steel mill? Bit of planning there, not just random.

Plot was basically the same, they just added a bad-guy twist and some more character development/depth.

I have respect for the first film for creating the franchise, but that's about it.  It's kind of like Evil Dead... that's a good flick but why the hell would you bother to watch it instead of just skipping to Evil Dead 2?

I suggest that you go and see "Night of the Living Dead" then compare it with modern zombie flicks. What I like about the original (but they lost in re-makes) is that the original "hero" was a black dude. He survived the night. But when the white dude cops turned up to rescue people, they shot him anyway.

Also for the record, don't lump Alien in with T1.  Alien is a great film and it holds up well, mostly because they had more than 14 dollars to do the vfx.

T_I, T-II and Aliens were James Cameron. But Cameron didn't do the original Alien (that was Ridley Scott).

[opt2not]

Anyone who doesn’t see the parallels between T1/2 and Alien/Aliens is either half-blind, or a moron. Probably both. 

[Osirus23]

It's like poetry. They rhyme.

[Howard_Casto]

Anyone who doesn’t see the parallels between T1/2 and Alien/Aliens is either half-blind, or a moron. Probably both. 

Thanks for calling me a moron you piece of garbage.  See?  It's not nice to call people names.  I thought you were going to try harder.... obviously that was a lie. 

[schmerzkaufen]

They can not handle even the mildest of Criticism's. They take such things as serious as a Knife Attack... and they resort to the most extreme measures, when their Egos are Bruised.

Is he a MAME dev? 

--

Anyway back on topic I've finally watched Genisys and, well, it screams fan service from start to finish. It even feels written by fans if you know what I mean.

It's no better or worse than T3, both are just average flicks, but Genisys has that unfortunate 'cocaine for the fans' smell that IMO makes it even more irreleant than the former within the franchise (of course part of T3 is fan service as well but its not trying nearly as hard)

[Malenko]

I wish blocking a user blocked when they were  quoted too.


Can we at least agree that t2 pin is better than t3, but t3 has better dmd animations.

[BadMouth]

T3, much like Alien 3, is a move best left forgotten for everyone's sakes.

Too much illogical ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, bad acting and bad direction for all involved, especially the audience.

I feel the same way about Terminator as I do with the Alien series. T1 was more suspenseful, thriller, than T2. Just like Alien and Aliens. T2 had more action, one-liners, and pretty straightforward in story telling, just like Aliens had compared to Alien.

Both series had ---smurfy--- third entries, and with either series I only care about the first two movies. The rest are irrelevant.

I love the Alien franchise, so assumed you were wrong about Alien3.  Then I tried to remember what Alien 3 was about and couldn't so had to google it.  That reminded me of the premise, but I still don't remember a damn thing about the movie despite owning it and seeing it at least 2 times.
....so yes.  Forgettable.  Or at least denial on my part.

If anyone has an audible membership, Alien: Out of the Shadows is one of the free Audible originals this month.
https://www.audible.com/ep/audible-originals-member-benefit?ref=a_hp_c0_banner_img&pf_rd_p=3b919f17-406d-499f-822d-cc8bfdf91e7a&pf_rd_r=K1NDMY9WM5BTRC17ERAR& 
Shame I already bought it a long time ago.
I thought it was pretty friggin' awesome.  Haven't listened to the other two yet.  The X-Files originals are even better.

[Zebidee]

I love the Alien franchise, so assumed you were wrong about Alien3.  Then I tried to remember what Alien 3 was about and couldn't so had to google it.  That reminded me of the premise, but I still don't remember a damn thing about the movie despite owning it and seeing it at least 2 times.
....so yes.  Forgettable.  Or at least denial on my part.

This pretty much exactly summarises my initial Alien3 experience - after watching it the first time I tried to blot it out of my memory, with a lot of success at first. But then I watched it again about 10 years later and didn't hate it as much, even liked some bits, but yes, was probably better left forgotten.

I enjoyed the characters in Alien Resurrection, that movie got me to better appreciate Peter Dinklage as an actor and made me look forward to another sequel with same characters (it never came).

[ark_ader]

I watched Terminator Salvation.  That movie is ridiculous.  Anton Yelchin is in it.  Depressed me a bit.

[pbj]

I watched Terminator Salvation.  That movie is ridiculous.  Anton Yelchin is in it.  Depressed me a bit.

Same here.  If you really want to get depressed, go drive one of the Jeeps that killed him.  Every time you have to press that stupid button to release the thing out of Park is a reminder.

[Mr. Peabody]

Yelchin earned a Darwin award, looks like. (My daddy taught me to put on the emergency break.) I haven't seen him in other movies, so I don't know his quality as an actor.


@Zebidee: compulsion has no compunction for the vessel it directs.


@Yotsuya: oh. I missed it.


@Badmouth: come on, Sherman, into the Way Back Machine.

[pbj]

Yelchin earned a Darwin award, looks like. (My daddy taught me to put on the emergency break.)

Eh, not really.  The setup was really dumb.  It's fun to be snarky, though.

[Mr. Peabody]

No snark from me. Just bewilderment. He didn't use a critical piece of safety equipment, got whacked because of it, and his parents got money out of it. Life in America.

Yelchin was 27.