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Author Topic: PC Specs for Today's Emulation  (Read 13963 times)

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FrizzleFried

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PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« on: November 12, 2018, 11:37:16 pm »
OK... my 11 year old MAME PC has finally died... not entirely sure where the issue is,  but I suspect the HD is dying... whatever it is,  it's giving me an excuse to UPGRADE...

Gimme a run down of what today's emulation PC's consist of?

What's the CPU of choice for MAME?

How much RAM?

I imagine an Arcade VGA is still the way to go?

SSD surely...

That kinda stuff.

I figure if I have to re-do my MAME it's time to update to the latest and greatest...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 01:20:51 am by FrizzleFried »
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    • MikeArcade
Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 01:46:59 am »
Entirely depends on your setup and what kind of games you play. Some games are easier to emulate than others. The newer 3d stuff also requires more hardware. If everything played well on your old setup... well you have your answer.

If you are using a CRT you will want a video card that CRT Emudriver supports. No reason not to get one of the cheep, newer supported AMD cards as far as I know.

As far as MAME goes, there certainly have been a lot of great fixes and improvements since '07. Remember that you will have to update your rom set as well.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 04:27:27 am »
Quote
No reason not to get one of the cheep, newer supported AMD cards as far as I know.

Stay clear of the RX580. Mine died 6 weeks in play.  Go Nvidia like a GTX 950 or 1050.  Redream plays pretty good on that card.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 09:43:47 am »
Quote
No reason not to get one of the cheep, newer supported AMD cards as far as I know.

Stay clear of the RX580. Mine died 6 weeks in play.  Go Nvidia like a GTX 950 or 1050.  Redream plays pretty good on that card.

I'm not looking for a PC gamer... but rater an emulation machine.  At least BITD emulation required CPU horsepower,   rather than GPU.  Is that not the case anymore?   I WOULD like to play the latest and greatest emulated games if possible...

Back in the day NFL BLITZ 99/2K required a Core 2 Duo to play... which I got... what is today's more horsepower hungry games to emulate?  What CPU (or GPU now?) will handle such tasks?

PS: My pc gaming rig has a Radeon RX580 ... now I've only had it since April,  but it's still rocking.  You got a bad card I suspect.


« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 09:50:48 am by FrizzleFried »
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FrizzleFried

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 09:53:38 am »
BTW... as far as EMULATION/ARCADE MAME CAB is concerned... what's a better soluation... the Arcade VGA or this software option.  I currently use a very old ArcadeVGA in my current rig.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 10:04:35 am »
Any last gen stuff is going to be overkill for MAME and the like. Newer stuff like  CXBXR and Teknoparrot require more horsepower.

CPU:  Get a 5th or 6th gen i5 or i7 dirt cheap and cost effective
RAM: Get as much DDR3 RAM as you can afford and the board supports
HD: SSDs wont impact the actual emulation, but the CHD based games will load faster and so will the PC. You can get a quality Samsung SSD for like $80, its a no brainer.
Video: Get the best card that is supported by CRT Emudriver if you plan to output to an arcade monitor, else just get the best nvidia card you can afford
Sound: jk, onboard is fine nowadays.

OS: I prefer Win7 for the most part but there's nothing wrong with Win10.  Time to let XP go, you need 64 bit OS and 64bit XP sucked.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 10:30:20 am »
Sound: jk, onboard is fine nowadays.

You joke, but I spent like an hour trying to convince my friend (who is new to the scene) that there was NO REASON to spend $150 on "high fidelity" sound card, amp, and speakers.

... he ended up buying them anyway.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 10:50:59 am »
Sound: jk, onboard is fine nowadays.

You joke, but I spent like an hour trying to convince my friend (who is new to the scene) that there was NO REASON to spend $150 on "high fidelity" sound card, amp, and speakers.

... he ended up buying them anyway.

Audiophoolery is the strangest consumer phenomenon I've ever encountered. People will cling to outrageous, nonsensical beliefs all so they can justify wasting thousands of dollars of their own money.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 10:58:55 am »
Any last gen stuff is going to be overkill for MAME and the like. Newer stuff like  CXBXR and Teknoparrot require more horsepower.

CPU:  Get a 5th or 6th gen i5 or i7 dirt cheap and cost effective
RAM: Get as much DDR3 RAM as you can afford and the board supports
HD: SSDs wont impact the actual emulation, but the CHD based games will load faster and so will the PC. You can get a quality Samsung SSD for like $80, its a no brainer.
Video: Get the best card that is supported by CRT Emudriver if you plan to output to an arcade monitor, else just get the best nvidia card you can afford
Sound: jk, onboard is fine nowadays.

OS: I prefer Win7 for the most part but there's nothing wrong with Win10.  Time to let XP go, you need 64 bit OS and 64bit XP sucked.

Thanks Malenko...

Questions ... How elegant is CRT Emudriver?  The old Soft15khz that I used for one of my rigs works fine,  but it's ugly as hell when I power up and the monitor isn't synced until windows boots and Soft15khz loads up.  I suspect that's the same with this CRT Emudriver?  Would you advise AGAINST an Arcade VGA?

Also,  can you name off some games that "push" current systems a bit ... something I can aim for so to speak?

Is MAME emulating Golden Tee Fore yet?  How about Silver Strike Bowling or any of that generation IT game?  PGA Golf?

It's been a long time since I dipped in to MAME other than to get a classic Pi3 machine (or 3) going (ARpiCADE)...
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 11:37:19 am »
There is a bios modification system for AMD cards that are supported by the CRT Emudriver which allows for 15Khz display prior to windows booting, however it looks like you run into issues with UEFI boards, as their bios screens are sometimes higher resolution than can be outputted in 15Khz.

That having been said, booting into a stripped down Win10 solution on an SSD, on a modernish processor means the time spent displaying garbage is on the order of 9-10 seconds.

Many motherboards allow for disabling any kind of splash screen on boot (instead displaying minimal text based information), and you can disable the Windows loading screen in msconfig with 'noguiboot', which just displays a black screen.

GroovyMAME and the CRT Emudriver are really utterly unique and if you're running an arcade monitor it's the only way to go.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 08:49:20 pm »
BTW... as far as EMULATION/ARCADE MAME CAB is concerned... what's a better soluation... the Arcade VGA or this software option.  I currently use a very old ArcadeVGA in my current rig.

CRT EMU with Groovymame is in a different league to the arcade VGA cards. With an arcade vga you are limited to a handful of resolutions and refresh rates which means you can't play a majority of games in mame at their native refresh rate. This results in screen tearing n stuff.

CRT EMU with Groovy mame generates custom refresh rates on the fly so almost every games comes out perfect with no further need for messing around with settings. There is no better option to use with a CRT. It does everything for you.



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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2018, 04:51:01 am »
I recently went on Newegg and they sell Arrow-Direct refurbished PCs.  I got an i3 2gb (bumped it up to 8gb) 250gb HDD and Windows 10 Home for $57.00 with free shipping.  They had i7s and i5 for $150 more but the i3 is overkill for emulation only.  You cannot make it for the price.  Also the cases are SFF and you can easily stick a 6450HD low height card in there for anything discrete struggles with.  Most are Dells and HP with a few AMD A8s.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2018, 07:38:43 am »
Any last gen stuff is going to be overkill for MAME and the like. Newer stuff like  CXBXR and Teknoparrot require more horsepower.

nothing is really overkill when it comes to CPU.  MAME is just as demanding as the ones you mention (and the PS3 emulators etc.) but for different reasons and in different areas.  eg. many of those will work with a weaker CPU than MAME, but will require a higher end video card.

even some of the Voodoo based stuff (CartFury etc.) fails to maintain 100% on a 4Ghz i7 from 2 years ago, by my reckoning you'd need something that would clock up to about 5Ghz for that, and that's even after heavy driver optimizations.  Even some of these TV games, that don't look like much more than a SNES are challenging from a performance view (250% here) because the 6502 core was written to be cycle accurate, which is fine at ~3Mhz, but actually *really* demanding if you start trying to run cycle accurate emulations at 20+Mhz, and have a system where every memory access is going through multiple stages of redirect.

high end emulators tend to be programmed around taking advantage of the best hardware available that's beneficial to them.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 07:41:04 am by Haze »

yo1dog

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2018, 09:47:21 am »
because the 6502 core was written to be cycle accurate, which is fine at ~3Mhz, but actually *really* demanding if you start trying to run cycle accurate emulations at 20+Mhz, and have a system where every memory access is going through multiple stages of redirect.

You sound like you know your stuff. As a programmer, I have always been interested in learning more about how accurate emulation works. Got any resources/reading to recommend?

FrizzleFried

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2018, 12:33:35 pm »
I have a spare Dell Optiplex 320 in the shed... but it only has a Pentium Dual Core E2160 @ 1.8GHz.  I'm guessing that's not going to cut it...unless I want to stick with just the classics in which case I might as well stick with the spare Pi3 (ARpiCADE) I have here...?
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2018, 12:37:07 pm »
I have a spare Dell Optiplex 320 in the shed... but it only has a Pentium Dual Core E2160 @ 1.8GHz.  I'm guessing that's not going to cut it...

Easy enough to figure out: just try it. See how it preforms with various games. Let us know the results.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2018, 12:47:18 pm »
It appears that I also have an old AMD A8-5500 APU with built in Radeon graphics... garbage I am sure (the graphics end)... but how's the "CPU" end of things when it comes to an A8?

EDIT: From what I can see here it appears this AMD chip sits right about around the mid-high range of the Intel i3...

...any recommendations for a good CHEAP graphics card for the build?   Does GPU matter now?  I could use the cheap GPU in the current MAME PC... or the on-board if necessary?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 12:53:04 pm by FrizzleFried »
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2018, 01:02:47 pm »
Again, just try it out.

From https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/FAQ:Performance

Quote
As of this writing, MAME does not pass polygons down to the video card of your system; instead, it renders all 3D graphics by hand in software. Although this code is generally optimized to take advantage of multiple CPUs, it is still quite taxing to do this. Some 3D games give you control of the output resolution; reducing it will reduce the CPU requirements.

However, it also states:
Quote
How can I get games to run faster? ... Upgrade your graphics card, or update your present card's drivers. Swapping your generic (cheap) card for a high-quality (not cheap) card will certainly boost performance. If you are using on-board (integrated) video, you'll see a great performance increase by simply getting a new graphics card. Check your graphics card drivers, too. Newer drivers — especially for cheaper cards — can make all the difference.


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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2018, 01:19:14 pm »
I don't know when that was written and it contradict what I've always heard (that a better video card won't help performance). :dunno

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2018, 01:25:09 pm »
Again, just try it out.

From https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/FAQ:Performance

Quote
As of this writing, MAME does not pass polygons down to the video card of your system; instead, it renders all 3D graphics by hand in software. Although this code is generally optimized to take advantage of multiple CPUs, it is still quite taxing to do this. Some 3D games give you control of the output resolution; reducing it will reduce the CPU requirements.

However, it also states:
Quote
How can I get games to run faster? ... Upgrade your graphics card, or update your present card's drivers. Swapping your generic (cheap) card for a high-quality (not cheap) card will certainly boost performance. If you are using on-board (integrated) video, you'll see a great performance increase by simply getting a new graphics card. Check your graphics card drivers, too. Newer drivers — especially for cheaper cards — can make all the difference.

Life is too short to play around with this stuff when you can ask a few key questions and skip right to the meat of things.  I really don't have a bunch of time to put in to this build so I have to pretty much decide what I am doing and do it.  I'm actually on the fence with this cabinet anyway... I currently have two dozen arcade machines in the garagecade... and to be honest,  I play this MAME cabinet very very little.  I'm sort of trying to decide what path I want to go down.  I wouldn't mind making a more modern emulation cabinet,   but I am hamstrung with the standard resolution monitor currently in it.  I don't have a spare Tri-Res sitting around to drop in either.  With that in mind,  I'm guessing I could get away with using what I have here without issue as it's faster than the current rig in the cabinet... but do I want to bother knowing I won't be able to do much more than what it already does (I might get a few FPS more in Blitz).

I might just drop a Pandora's Box in the cabinet (something I too having sitting around) then sell the damn thing on CL for $500 and call it a day.

:D

There was a time when I relished dicking around with my MAME cabinet.  Those days are long-gone... Ease is king in my old age...

;)

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2018, 01:29:00 pm »
I gotcha. I am jealous of your garage.

Well the only thing I can tell you fore sure is that the 6700K ($300) benchmarks well: http://www.mameui.info/Bench.htm :lol

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2018, 03:06:19 pm »
the main issue with those SFF PCs is the half height video card, really limits the selection. I guess unless you wanna Dremel the case.

If it were me, I wouldn't put an 8 year old PC in to replace a 15 year old one, you'll just have to do it again in 8 years. Pick up a last gen trick it out, then don't worry about it for the next 2 decades.
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and
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Thats for performance, if you want it based on price, flip em ;)


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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2018, 04:45:30 pm »
Well you can future proof your cab by adding a Steam Link in it.  I added a spare Steam Link into a 1UP Galaga.  I can use my main PC as an extension or rather any mame cab as a controller.  Your encoder reads like a keyboard and the Steam Link is good to go.  The other idea is to get an Intel NUC with Iris discrete graphics.  These things are tiny and have a somewhat decent CPU, yet so is a Pi3.  I would not want to go out and buy a $500 PC when I have one in the study that is on 24/7.  Zero lag too.

Just make sure you wire it up and not use wifi.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2018, 12:09:20 pm »
because the 6502 core was written to be cycle accurate, which is fine at ~3Mhz, but actually *really* demanding if you start trying to run cycle accurate emulations at 20+Mhz, and have a system where every memory access is going through multiple stages of redirect.

You sound like you know your stuff. As a programmer, I have always been interested in learning more about how accurate emulation works. Got any resources/reading to recommend?

I'm not really sure there are any specific resource on 'accurate' emulation.  Accuracy isn't a black/white thing, there are varying degrees.  For CPUs a lot of old cores simply execute each instruction as one block of logic with a block 'time' value it takes to execute, a more accurate emulation divides that into multiple calls for each step of the instruction (fetching opcodes, fetching oprands, fetching data, processing data, writing data etc.) each with their own timing value.  That's obviously a lot more overhead, but for accurate emulation, necessary, because external devices can often halt CPU execution in the middle of opcodes etc.

It's not really a simple thing to write about as there are so many cases to consider, and even if you know all the variables, writing code that works for every case can be difficult.  MAME still doesn't do a good job of actual waitstates etc. and in most cases doesn't emulate CPU cache, or the associated cache hit / miss penalties etc. for 32-bit and above CPUs etc.  Again in some cases you really do have to emulate that stuff, as there is software that erases the RAM it's running code from, but doesn't crash because the actual code is running from instruction cache and hasn't seen that the RAM was erased beneath it etc.

Keeping everything properly in time is key to accurate emulation too, and of course a big factor in things running more slowly as you have the overhead of checking what needs to run next and switching all the time.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2018, 08:09:02 am »
the main issue with those SFF PCs is the half height video card, really limits the selection. I guess unless you wanna Dremel the case.

EVGA makes a nice half-height gtx 1030 card, which is a great card for emulation use. Passively cooled also, so no noise. $79.

https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Passive-Graphics-02G-P4-6332-KR/dp/B073VPKV26/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1542546390&sr=8-6&keywords=gtx+1030+low+profile

You can get a gtx 1050 half height also, but costs about $150

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2018, 11:52:46 am »
Ho-lee----fudgesicle---! Vanilla Gorilla! Long time no see!
%Bartop

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2018, 01:20:13 pm »
Aw, the feels! Despite reports to to the contrary, reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated. Nice to see they haven't painted the place, still feels like home!

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2018, 04:04:01 am »
Curious if anyone might share specs on a machine they have that runs Rush 2049 as well as can be expected.. I know it is listed in Mame as NOT WORKING, but I see videos of it all over youtube..

- Thanks

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2018, 05:13:16 am »
ArcadeVGA is our, crt_emudriver is in. Check the groovymame sub forum and stickies. Grab any compatible card.

Your correct about SSD.

I use windows 10 1607 enterprise as it’s quick and I can 100% hide windows booting easily.

My setup is an i3-2100 4gb ram. It plays gauntleg and blitz over 100%. Better components will yield a faster boot, and isn’t a bad thing. My boot into attractmode takes 11 seconds. Stick with Intel I series cpu.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2018, 08:39:40 am »
the main issue with those SFF PCs is the half height video card, really limits the selection. I guess unless you wanna Dremel the case.

EVGA makes a nice half-height gtx 1030 card, which is a great card for emulation use...…….


I didn't say that there weren't any good ones, just a lot fewer. I didn't even know 1030 cards existed, I thought 1050s were bottom of the 10XX line lol
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2018, 01:00:32 pm »
ArcadeVGA is our, crt_emudriver is in. Check the groovymame sub forum and stickies. Grab any compatible card.

Your correct about SSD.

I use windows 10 1607 enterprise as it’s quick and I can 100% hide windows booting easily.

My setup is an i3-2100 4gb ram. It plays gauntleg and blitz over 100%. Better components will yield a faster boot, and isn’t a bad thing. My boot into attractmode takes 11 seconds. Stick with Intel I series cpu.

Really?
That's a $70 PC shipped off ebay
did not know.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2018, 12:58:07 am »
because the 6502 core was written to be cycle accurate, which is fine at ~3Mhz, but actually *really* demanding if you start trying to run cycle accurate emulations at 20+Mhz, and have a system where every memory access is going through multiple stages of redirect.

You sound like you know your stuff.


Oh perhaps.....


https://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2018, 11:54:26 am »
ArcadeVGA is our, crt_emudriver is in. Check the groovymame sub forum and stickies. Grab any compatible card.

Your correct about SSD.

I use windows 10 1607 enterprise as it’s quick and I can 100% hide windows booting easily.

My setup is an i3-2100 4gb ram. It plays gauntleg and blitz over 100%. Better components will yield a faster boot, and isn’t a bad thing. My boot into attractmode takes 11 seconds. Stick with Intel I series cpu.

Really?
That's a $70 PC shipped off ebay
did not know.

Yep. I made two revisions of this computer. Second revision was with a smaller motherboard and case, but same socket due to reduced cost. They are practically giving the cpu’s away now because the socket is phased out.

If size wasn’t a concern for me, I’d grab a refurbished optiplex. They are going for cheap and have better cpu specs than mine. Add video card and ssd, good to go. I just wanted a small case, so I spent the money - but knew where to save.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2018, 09:43:46 pm »
Sound: jk, onboard is fine nowadays.

You joke, but I spent like an hour trying to convince my friend (who is new to the scene) that there was NO REASON to spend $150 on "high fidelity" sound card, amp, and speakers.

... he ended up buying them anyway.

 These Audio Arguments are Far from the truth... and are largely based on Ignorance.. as well the possibility of these individuals not having decent hearing ranges.


 First... I will state that Onboard Audio has improved in quality over the years... but... it still falls Far short of dedicated hardware that is decades older.


 At work,  I have a PC that has Onboard sound.  Its a Realtech based chipset,  and has all sorts of features,  as well as a software based EQ.
To get decent sound out of it... you really need to use the EQ... as the base output is wretched.   The problem?

 The EQ is wildly erratic.   For one... there is a delay between the time you adjust it,  to it actually changing.   That alone, would not be that bad... but... the real problem is that the EQ sliders are not stable nor accurate.   If you crank up the treble ranges,  it will suck some "power" from the low end bass.   Each slider is sort of tallied into an algorythm, that ends up spreading power levels between all of the sliders.   This is not how an EQ is supposed to work!  >_<    Worse yet... is that if I slide a few of the levels up and down... then return them to the original positions... the EQ does not sound the same.   I have to actually max out a slider value,  to get it re-calibrated to the correct level that it visibly reports.   What this is indicating... is that not only are power levels being slid around... but actual frequency values are being slid around as well.   Its a damn mess.

 Now.. if your Music / Movies...etc.. are all relatively balanced,  and you do not need to adjust the EQ... then this may be acceptable for you.   Add in some distortion of the Audio signals... and thus some muddying of the sounds.

 The other issue with Any "Onboard" device... is that they tend to use  "Shared Ram".   If you have a lot of ram... this may not seem like that big of a deal... but its much deeper than that.   These chips are heavily reliant on  Software functionality.  This means, that your CPU is also going to be doing a lot more processing,  than it would if you were using a dedicated 100% hardware card solution.

 Those in the know... will Immediately disable ALL onboard hardware in the PCs Bios... to Maximize the PCs performance.  (Also removing all traces of any potential Drivers that were installed... if the system was previously loaded with the hardware enabled)    One might think that the onboard hardware doesnt impact performance that much... but I can assure you,  that the performance boost can be quite Surprising.


 My older Soundblaster Audigy,  and even soundblaster cards older than that... blow my work PCs onboard Audio out of the water,  in every way.
The stock sound almost perfectly balanced... without much, if any, need for EQ.   The audio seems far less radical in swings,  between different songs, movies, games..etc.   The Treble / Bass  sliders are rock solid... and there is no frequency drifting issues... nor is there any issues of power-sharing.  If you crank up the bass... the highs do not drop in frequency, nor volume.  Likewise for the inverse.     The best part about the card is the crystal clear, distortion free highs.  There is a magical quality of these cards to produce audio so cleanly... that once you have heard the Onboard comparison... it makes you want to Vomit in disgust.


 You must realize... that there is a reason why these cards have so many components, and are quite complex in their looks.   You can not expect to get Lamborghini results... from a Dump Truck.


 As for the argument about Audio-foolery...  that depends on what you are talking about.   Paying +$200 for specialty Monster-audio cables... isnt going to really net any discernible value, to the average speaker + amp + volume levels...etc... if at all.    However... any time I have handed someone my Sennheiser HD 590 headphones to listen to... their jaws hit the ground... their eyes widen,  and they are absolutely blown away by the difference in the experience.   Even from people whom first admitted that their ears were not the greatest...  even they could tell the difference,  and were astounded.

 People latch on to heavily advertised name-brands... like Bose, Beats, and Klipsch...  but these companies are Smoke and Mirrors + Garbage (in comparison to Real Audiophile grade equipment).   Beats uses a horribly inaccurate driver set,  that is not much better than a cheap 20$ headphone.   Id wager that the drivers cost about 5$ to manufacture... and are really poor in their ability to deliver clear and precise audio... let alone a true spatial 3d image.   As for speakers... Bose and Klipsch use very low powered drivers... that basically require a sub-woofer to TRY to cover the huge gapping mid and low woofer frequencies.  They use ports, with distort the bass sounds... as well as the audio in general.  And they use a sub/woofer that is too small in diameter,  and or case tricks to amplify a bass-effect... which results in a very artificial sound...  (that tends to get even worse with higher volumes)

 A fellow collector friend of mine,  had just ordered a very expensive pair of Bose headphones.  I had my older HD 500  headphones on me at the time... and had him listen.  He nearly cried... at how much better they sounded... and how much cheaper they were.   Not only that... but how comfortable,  and durable.  Mine lasted about 13 years before I managed to break the band,  due to extreme temperatures,  when I was forced so sleep with them on in my minivan,  in the middle of the winter.    As good as the 500 was... the 590  was Leaps and bounds over it,  from frequency ranges, to clarity, accuracy, and pretty much Zero distortion...even at the highest of volumes.


 Audiophile Speakers  -vs-  Modern big-box speakers  -vs-  Overpriced PC speakers


 I have a pair of EPI 100mv  speakers.   They are about bookself size... with only two drivers.   An 8" woofer,  and a 1" inverted dome tweeter.
I used to own FOUR technique 3-way speakers... that were rated for 200 watts each.   After listening to the EPIs at a friends local business... and being blown away by the fact that I could not located the speakers without him pointing out where they were  (thats how amazing the 3d imaging is)...  I could never go back to the Techniques.   Not only are the EPIs far superior in the 3d imaging... (nearly the whole room is the "Sweet-spot" !) .. but the Bass is far deeper, richer, accurate, and powerful.   The EPIs are not ported... so the bass is not  Farty-Fake,  as is the case with the Techs.

 The EPIs are nearly half the size of the techs... but if you were to pick each of them up... you would be shocked.  The Techs are light as a feather... were as the EPIs are heavy as an Anchor.   The reason?   EPIs use thicker wood for the cabinet.. but thats just the start.  The woofer driver itself,  has a FAR stronger magnet driver.  While the techs woofer is a 12"... the EPIs 8" totally decimates it,  in every way.

 The most Modern speakers are even worse.   They use even smaller drivers,  such as using three low quality 6 inch mid-woofer drivers.  They lack power, depth, and accurate control... AND,  because of their weak magnets + ported design... they are horribly artificial and distorted.   They tend to require a person to buy a Subwoofer, to try to fill in the lows.  However... the Subs that tend to come with these systems... and or are recommended...  are low quality "Thumpers".  They are not Musically accurate... and are mostly for filler and Effect.  Yet... because they are subs.. and not actually woofers... these speakers are lacking a large spectrum of bottom end... all the while... are giving the end user a distorted farty and thumpy mess.

 PC speakers are the worst Rip-Offs of all...  as they use even lower powered, and lower quality drivers...  that are powered by an  All-in-one  Sub+Amp.   They are FAR over-priced... especially for the performance.  But worse yet... is that their Amps are such low quality.. that they tend to fail in less than a 2 year span of time.

 I bought my EPI speakers used + re-foamed,  for about $100.   They blow away EVERYTHING that is at my local high-end stereo shop... including their most expensive $3500 ish pair.   Not by a little...  the EPIs totally Slaughter them,  in every way possible.

 My advice to people... IF they love good high quality music... is to get a  Soundblaster Sound-Card,  a used stereo amp from a  thrift / 2nd hand shop  (the older models tend to be better + more powerful in general),  and a used pair of restored Vintage speakers.   One will have to do some research into which vintage models are good..  and get to understand the reasons why.   Not all EPI models,  for example... are great.  Towards the 80s... many speaker companies started cutting corners, using ports, cheaper drivers... thinner cabinets,  poor quality crossovers...etc.

 The rise in labor and materials did play some factor in this... but also,  there is an environmental agenda,  that also drove this.  Ported speakers sound louder, due to more sound being able to exit the cabinet.  Since they do not have to deal with high air-pressure environments that you will find in a sealed box... they can use lower powered magnet drivers... and thus,  will need less Electricity to drive them.   Of course... the quality and clarity of the audio suffers Dramatically, as a result.


 The agendist do not want the average Joe to know that they are being Scammed with over-priced garbage.   And to make things worse... most all music that has been produced over the years,  has been highly compressed... to further reduce power consumption.   You may notice that a CD made 10 years ago... sounds quieter than one made in recent years.  Thats because they peg all of the channels at near maximum volume.  You get louder audio.. but you lose the dynamic range and clarity.  Every year over the last 20 years.. studios have been compressing audio, progressively worse and worse,  each passing year.   And those over-prices Re-masters?!  They are FAR inferior to the original CDs / tapes / masters... because of that compression.  (in addition to some other horrible practices)

 So... the Shills will try to create a Divide,  to keep people Ignorant,  of what they are being denied.   To keep people fighting among themselves,  and their own ignorant Ego-drivin bias's.   The truth does not care about your Pride / Ego / feelings.

 Feeling you are right... is not the same thing as Being right.
 Having the Opinions and Assumptions of something... is Not the same as Depth of Knowledge and Experience.


 TLDR -  High Definition Audio is Far Superior to overpriced name brand Garbage,  and Cheap Onboard Chipset Junk.
 
 ++ And...  If you disable Onboard junk,  and remove all of the drivers... you will get a nice Performance Boost
 
 +++  Finally... Not all PC motherboards are Optimal.  Companies like Dell do not use high quality components,  AND, they do not spend
a lot of time / energy on making their Circuitboard designs as Efficient / Performance  based.. as a Custom companies Motherboard does.
Even with the Fastest CPU... the poor designs of Pre-Build motherboards, can radically slow and cripple its performance.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 10:01:08 pm by pixel »

Mr. Peabody

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2018, 03:35:57 pm »


 TLDR -  High Definition Audio is Far Superior to overpriced name brand Garbage,  and Cheap Onboard Chipset Junk.
 


Unless you're listening to something like this, it doesn't matter.




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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2018, 04:40:49 pm »
Right out of the gate he opened up with Audiophool Nonsense Excuse #0001: "You just don't have golden ears!" so I disregarded the rest.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2018, 04:58:38 pm »
I rarely just sit still and listen to music, so $300 headphones would be lost on me.  Might be fun to pump some of my industrial ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- through them and see if the screaming sex robots sound any better.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2018, 07:59:05 pm »
I built a new PC this year and was very dissappointed in the onboard audio (Asus tuf x470 plus).

  I couldn't use my old Asus xonar card because the Mobo didn't have a full size pci slot.  The onboard sound bothered me enough to spend $40 on a new xonar card with the shorter pcix1 connector.

 No idea what the card does that the mobo doesn't, but it sounds much more dynamic (higher highs & lower lows) and more detailed.

I also have one in the MAME cab.  Doesn't make any difference on the old school games, but let me tweak the sound to get the the Naomi Shmups like psyvariar 2 sounding spectacular.

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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2018, 08:21:47 pm »
 I usually find onboard sound completely fine for regular use.  I'm going deaf anyways. There is one reason for hifi hum.
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Re: PC Specs for Today's Emulation
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2018, 08:48:04 am »
After all this I ended up taking the easy way out.  I already had a spare ARpiCADE sitting here (Pi3+ JAMMA interface for those not familiar) and,  well,  it does all I ask it to do.  After a bit of testing the only game that I played on my old MAME rig that I can't on the Pi3+ is Blitz... which I rarely played anyway.  World Class Bowling... Shuffleshot... Shuuz... all play great...

My trackball and spinner plugged right in and worked... what more can I ask for?

As a bonus... much less heat!

:D
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