hantarex polo 28 problem(s) (SOLVED)

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I have a hantarex polo 28 in my Time chrisis II.

I got some strange issues, that I hope that you can help me solving

1. Problem - No picture or neck glow. (No ticking sound)
Solution I changed replaced the C114 and i got picture. 
BUT the B+ is around 132V if I adjust it higher to 135-138V the monitor shuts off, and the B+ volt raises to 139V-149V
So i had the B+ volt adjusted to 132V yesterday, and it seems fine, and I had picture

2. Problem today when I turn on the machine I got this strange picture?

[grantspain]

looks like you lost 200v video b+ and there is an issue on the vertical deflection- all could be caps or bad solder joints, normally bright white screen is safety resistor blown on 200v video b+

usa or european chassis?

[perjmolsen]

looks like you lost 200v video b+ and there is an issue on the vertical deflection- all could be caps or bad solder joints, normally bright white screen is safety resistor blown on 200v video b+

usa or european chassis?

Hi

Thanks for the fast reply

It is a European chassis.
Where is the safety resistor? Then i will try to check it

I just measured my B+ and it is now only 113V at TP6 and I am unable to turn it up at the adjustment pot V.adj.

[grantspain]

r234 10 ohm metal oxide, its critical to replace with same

[perjmolsen]

r234 10 ohm metal oxide, its critical to replace with same

Super - I will check that  and let you know.
I might also explain why B+ suddenly is doped to 113V

[grantspain]

the b+ is causing the vertical issue, polo 28 european chassis should be 145vdc b+
you could have  a bad mains filter cap, all the psu caps should be replaced if not done so already

[perjmolsen]

the b+ is causing the vertical issue, polo 28 european chassis should be 145vdc b+
you could have  a bad mains filter cap, all the psu caps should be replaced if not done so already

I have not replaced the mains filter cap.
I only got one, assuming that it is C107 - if i look at it it has a strange value accoring to my diagram.
It is a 150uF 385V - if i look in the diagram C107 must be an 220uF 385V?

[perjmolsen]

Anoter angle of mains cap

[grantspain]

150uf is fine, you could use a 220uf if you want- make sure its rated at 300v or more

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I just replaced c107 with an 220uf 400v still the same white picture and only b+ at 114V

I will try tomorrow to find R234 and let you kmow. Thanks for your help 

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I have checked R234 it is fine.

Kind regards Per

[grantspain]

not much else causes that white screen, the b+ is critical though you must have at least 130v for it to run, it should be 145v
you will need to sort out this b+ issue first

[perjmolsen]

not much else causes that white screen, the b+ is critical though you must have at least 130v for it to run, it should be 145v
you will need to sort out this b+ issue first

Hi

OK - Thanks i where not sure witch way to go first, the B+ low or the vertical collapse way

I will try to follow this flowchart https://www.dropbox.com/s/ve2osbjl6inq092/POLO.FlowChart.jpg?dl=0
Following the B+ low "way", C112 is already changed, I might check it again just to rule that out, and after that the ZD101

[grantspain]

following the flowchart is ok but quicker option is to do what i suggested in the other polo post, you can use a 40w lamp as a dummy load and isolate pin 3 of flyback to prove b+( lamp to pad of pin 3 and ground)

isolate HOT and then lamp to pin 1 and ground, proves b+ and flyback

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I have just discovered that on my board a European hantarex polo 28 that the cap C144 is an 2200uf 35V
If i look at the diagram is must be an 1000uf 35V

Can that cause some issues?

[grantspain]

no that would not make any real difference
are you u.s or u.k based?

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I live in denmark
Our mains voltage is 230V.
I have taken a picture of the chassis label

Would it be best to change the cap??

[grantspain]

it will unlikely make any difference, some of these chassis have 2200uf and other have 1000uf- do not know why but i doubt it makes much difference
i was going to say you could send the chassis to me to fix if you were uk based, i fix tons of these

first you have to prove the power supply is operating correctly, you do that by isolating pin 3 of the flyback and adding a 40w lamp across the pad of that pin and ground- the bulb should light and then you read b+, 145vdc.if you cannot get stable b+ or chassis shuts down then the power supply section has a fault

[perjmolsen]

Hi

OK super

A question when test the power supply, I assume that the chassis needs to be mounted as usual to the monitor in order to test it?

[grantspain]

you can test the chassis without a tube,do the following
desolder and lift L103 at TP6 side
add 40w lamp to soldered side of L103 and ground(you can use c121 ground)
you can then read the b+ at L103, It should be 145vdc and fully adjustable- don't adjust it too much, try to keep to 145
read +24v at TP8, read +15v at TP9

this will prove power supply voltages

[perjmolsen]

Hi

Thanks for the explanation
But before I saw you post I have been been changing all the CAP's at the power supply side.

C121
C123
C125
C129
C114
C112
C111
C107
C144
C137

And also C14 at neck board

Now i can adjust the B+, I have set it to 139V BUT now i do not have any neck glow or white picture 

SO i have tested the R35 on neck PCB I messure it to 1.5 Ohm.
In the diagram it must be an 0.68Ohm - so can it be my issue now?
I do not have any 0.68 Ohm 1W resistor in my spare parts... so if its that is my issue now I have to order some

I might also check the volts according to your guide

Thanks again for your help!

[grantspain]

some chassis have different resistors installed at r35 as its for the heater current, different tubes and all that
highly unlikely your issue

do you have eht?
have you tried adjusting the screen volts?

[perjmolsen]

Hi

You are the superman i Polo monitors 

Sorry what is an EHT?   
If you mean the screen volts as adjusting v.adj - yes but i stoped when i got to 139V

[grantspain]

eht is the high voltage to the tube- if you static on tube you have eht

screen volts is the brightness control on the flyback(under the focus pot)

i forget how many of these i have repaired but at least 200

[perjmolsen]

Oh i will check that eht right away and let you know 

I just discoverd a burned/melted thing next to C175
What is that.. i can't seem to find it in the diagram and the part number has melted away

[grantspain]

100nf 250v polypropylene, its c176 and that i reckon is your problem as its on the b+ and brightness circuit

[perjmolsen]

100nf 250v polypropylene, its c176 and that i reckon is your problem as its on the b+ and brightness circuit

OK then i will have to see if thats dead - and that might be the issue then?
And if ots dead it must be a polypropylene? like this one its not possible to use an ordinary cap

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MCIGICM-104-100nF-100V-250V-400V-630V-CBB-Polypropylene-film-capacitor-pitch-5mm-7-5mm-10mm/32906354558.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.4e4b27caKl1pvC&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_319_317_10696_10084_453_10924_454_10083_10618_10920_10921_10304_10307_10922_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=3f3b6cdf-451c-48b7-b8ad-7d8af0b80cf6-0&algo_pvid=3f3b6cdf-451c-48b7-b8ad-7d8af0b80cf6


I just tried to see if i got eht when turing the screen control up, but no eht 
I have that "stadic cracking sound" when i power the monitor on
I alto adjusted the B+ volt to 145 steady as a rock

[grantspain]

that cap is dead, probably caused by a bad solder joint and then exploded due to arcing

that crackle is the eht

[perjmolsen]

that cap is dead, probably caused by a bad solder joint and then exploded due to arcing

that crackle is the eht

OK
it must be a polypropylene? like this one its not possible to use an ordinary cap? just the same values?

[grantspain]

you can use a polyester film, not a electrolytic
you can get them on ebay easily or if you have any electronic component suppliers in denmark

[perjmolsen]

I dug into my boxes with stuff.. and found those 

They do not look the same but i think that is poly caps and 100nf 250V that might be a replacement in c176

[grantspain]

exact same ones i use and from same company

[perjmolsen]

  super... I am just now heating up de soldering iron... so exiting to see if thats the issue

[perjmolsen]

CRAP...I had hoped that change C176 did it (the old one where dead)... but

Still the same.. no picture, also tried to turn up screen volt nothing.

Still cracle sound when I power the monitor on, and  B+ 145V
Strange I got white picture before i changed the power side caps, but before i changed them i where unable to get a steady B+ volt...

[grantspain]

check over your work

[perjmolsen]

Hi

Yes i will do that tomorrow. 
I think it is time to bed now

[perjmolsen]

HI

I just checked the volts

TP6: 145V steady
TP7: Dropping quickly from 48V to 0V
TP8: Where is that test point?
TP9: 16V

So i have to figure out why my TP7 volts is dropping to 0 and where TP8 is...

[grantspain]

tp7 should be 85v, check the polarity of c123 10uf 100v
TP8 is L105, normally its  2.2 ohm resistor, should be about 27v

[perjmolsen]

the polarity of c123 where OK - The one that i have mounted where an 10uf 160v
Changed it to the old one 10uf 100V

Now i got 12V steady at TP7? 

The other ones
TP6: 145V steady
TP8: 25V steady
TP9: 16V steady

Still no raster or neck glow ....

[grantspain]

read b+ on pin 3 of flyback now

[perjmolsen]

OK

Pin3 of flyback.. if i look at the bottom at the board I am unable to see any pin numbers, I guess that they are at the top where the flyback is, so then i need to remove the flyback in order to test pin3?


I greatly appreciate your helpfulness and all my questions 

NOTE I have also tested the HOT (BU508AF) in circut, no short between center leg and outer legs

[grantspain]

pin 3 marked, you can read with flyback in place

[perjmolsen]

HI

There is 145V at pin3 on flyback .

I forgot to connect the yoke connector this time, switched the power off immediately when i saw som smoke. 

It seems that only the L105 i dead, I can measure 25V at one side closest to the power supply, but not at the other end at TP8 mark.
So i have to change the resistor, if i read the colors correct its an 2.2 Ohms .10%

The other volts are
TP6: still 145V
TP7: starts at around 52V but drops quickly to 0V
TP8: 0V but i will replace the dead resistor then it should be OK
TP9: 16V

[grantspain]

yes 2.2 ohms and you will need to replace the vertical deflection ic tda1675a at ic103

[perjmolsen]

Hi

OK - I have replaced the 2.2 Ohm resistor.

And have order 10 pcs TDA1675A
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10PCS-TDA1675A-ZIP-15/32858690405.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7cff4c4d5vFWGE

So now i have to wait for a while... 3-4 weeks..

[grantspain]

tda1675a are a common part, you could get from germany or uk in a few days

[perjmolsen]

HI

Yes i cannot wait, so i have order one from UK also
Alway nice to have some parts in the boxes, and most of my arcade machines has a hantarex polo chassis.
I got an time crisis II, with dual monitors - (the one chassis is the one that i am trying to repair.)
I have also a Sega Scoud race - that is my next project, the one screen is missing a color - I have to see if that also is an polo chassis.

[grantspain]

scud race should be a nanao ms9-29su

[perjmolsen]

scud race should be a nanao ms9-29su

  how do you know all this stuff ?   
I will have to check later, i think that is a transistor on the neck board that has blown.. but i have not jet have had the time to pull the chassis out

[perjmolsen]

Hi

Just an update 

I have now replaced the vertical deflection ic tda1675a at ic103.
Also replaced some more caps, because i do not know when it last got a service, so replaced all them on the main board.
(triple checked polarity, and uf value.. some caps i replaced with ones with higher voltage)

C130
C157
C146
C184
C182
C150
C149
C139
C177
C165
C168

Do i miss anything....

Next step - try so install the chassis and see if there is picture, I really hope! 

[grantspain]

check r167 2r7 and d127 before powering on

[perjmolsen]

Hi

Will do,  thanks

[perjmolsen]

r167 2r7 and d127 checked out of circuit- all fine.
To late to test now - will test tomorrow

[perjmolsen]

Well---- status is still not working 
Only crackiling/static sound when power up the monitor

Volts is reading
TP6= 143,4V -> OK

TP7 = still 0V - why... ??!? (tested R130 reads 3,9 ohm and also tested C123 is OK)
Suggestion: Can i de solder one leg of TP7 to see if i have volt?

TP8 = 25V at the end of resistor closest to power supply at the other end 0V (is my 2.2 ohm0,5w resistor to small?)
Suggestion: Have to order a bigger w resistor

TP9 = 15V ->OK

[grantspain]

tbh never even had to check tp7, if you have b+ stable, 15v and 25v then chassis is working
turn up the screen volts to see if you get a raster

[perjmolsen]

tbh never even had to check tp7, if you have b+ stable, 15v and 25v then chassis is working
turn up the screen volts to see if you get a raster

OK.
I just have order some bigger W 2.2 ohm metal resistors, so that i can get the TP8 25V across

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I just dig thru all my stuff one more time.
I found a 1w 2.2 ohm resistor but it is white (think ceramic) - can i use that as a resistor for L105, or is it best to use a metal one ?

[princess prin prin]

A resistor in L105 is a change done by Sambers after they took over Hantarex. Older Polos just have a wire jumper there, i.e. it's not really needed.

[perjmolsen]

HI

OK thanks for the information, i have not fitted the 1w 2.2 ohm resistor and made some progress

TP6= 145V
TP7= 0V BUT at resistor r130 closest to power supply i have the 83V) - so why not at TP7... hmm
I have tested R130 an 3.9ohm resistor - i guess i´ll try to find a new one

TP8= 23,9V
TP9= 15,7V

So all my volts are there except my damm TP7

Turned up the screen volts no raster just normal static sound when power on and off

I guess i have to figure out where my 83V is not comming to TP7

[perjmolsen]

hmm

Now i dont undestand anything...

Just turned it on one more time, now i dont have any volts at all?!?
Not even a static ..

Could it be my flyback now? so its not drawing any power - then the power supply not turning on...
I just wanted to test the 83V after R130.

 

[princess prin prin]

The chassis doesn't use 85V. You don't measure anything at TP7 because it's isolated from the power supply as there is nothing in L104. The chassis uses 145v, 27v and 15v which is used to get 12v through the 7812 regulator.

[perjmolsen]

The chassis doesn't use 85V. You don't measure anything at TP7 because it's isolated from the power supply as there is nothing in L104. The chassis uses 145v, 27v and 15v which is used to get 12v through the 7812 regulator.

OK - then i do not need to chase that 85V
Just looking into why all my volts went...

flow chart says check r103 may be open... just need to find it....

[princess prin prin]

Forget about R103 as your PSU is outputting all the voltages. Do you have 12V? Is 25V going all the way to the vertical IC?

[perjmolsen]

Forget about R103 as your PSU is outputting all the voltages. Do you have 12V? Is 25V going all the way to the vertical IC?

Hi

But suddenly, just out of the blue i lost my voltages from the PSU.
I just had turned the monitor off, then when i turned it on i did not get the usual static / cracking sound.

And now when i measure my volts, all my volts are fluxing in the low range.

TP6 from 0,3V to 1.6V
TP8 from 1,8V to 1,9V
TP9 from 1,3V to 1,8V

So suddenly without i have changed anything all my stable volts are gone.
It looks like that the PSU wants to power on but is unable to power on

Its giving me a fight ... so close, and now suddenly so far away again

If measure at TP1 i have 327V

[grantspain]

you need to dummy load the b+ again

[perjmolsen]

Hi

Is this the correct procedure to put the dummy load on?

1. Desolder pins 1 and 3 of the flyback transformer(make sure they are completely desoldered and not touching the trace)so it is isolated from the circuit.
2. Connect all the wires to the monitor
3.Then use a 40 watt light bulb with crocodile clips connect one side the the chassis frame and the other to R227 (witch end?)
4. Connect multimeter to the same connections as the bulb.
5. Switch power on and see if i got my 145V B+ and also the other volts

If NOT - then there is a Power supply issue?
If there IS power then it is the flyback?

I just need to find a old 40W bulb tomorrow

[grantspain]

desolder pin 3 of flyback  and then one side of 40w lamp to pad of pin 3 for proving power supply voltages- all connected to crt
you test +145 b+, 25v vertical deflection, 15v which means you can then check +12- all tests ok then power supply is fine

[perjmolsen]

Super - simple
Again thanks, also til princess pin pin.. 
This chassis is giving me a fight, and you are my army .. but hopefully i am learning so next time i would be easy to fix

[perjmolsen]

desolder pin 3 of flyback  and then one side of 40w lamp to pad of pin 3 for proving power supply voltages- all connected to crt
you test +145 b+, 25v vertical deflection, 15v which means you can then check +12- all tests ok then power supply is fine

Hi

Did the bulb test and, PSU seems to be good
TP6=135V
TP8= 24V
TP9= 16V
TP10= 12V

So it must be my flyback who is dead?
I have already order a spare and i can pick it up at the post office today

[grantspain]

you need to check flyback function now
remove the HOT and read with a meter on diode test
leave hot out of circuit, resolder all flyback pins and lamp to pin 1- if it lights that mean flyback is possibly ok

[perjmolsen]

"Huston we have found the problem"

Removed the Transistor NPN HOT - BU508AF  tested it out of circut.

B-E = 0.056V - Must be 0,4-0,9V
B-C = 0,370V- Must be 0,4-0,9V
E-B = 0,055V - Must be OL
C-B = 0.491V - Must be OL
C-E = 0,451V - Must be OL

Strange that i earlier had tested it good, but that where in circuit.
But the HOT is COLD now 

 - so now... I will leave the hot out and resolder all flyback pins and lamp to pin 1

[perjmolsen]

Lamp lights up when connected to pin 1 
So i will wait for new HOT - I had already last week order some BU508AF in china, so a couple of weeks then i think that they are here.

[grantspain]

you need to check the hv caps at c174 and c172 plus the east/west correction diodes at d134,135

[perjmolsen]

Hi

 I pulled them out and tested

C174 tests as 2,72nf - according to my manual is must be 8.2nf 1500V
C172 tests as 00,22nf - accordin to my manual is must be 3.3nf 1500V

So i need to order some new - is the type poly caps?

8.2nf 1600V -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20pcs-CBB-capacitor-822-1600V-822J-1-6KV-6800pF-8-2nF-P15-CBB81-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film/32283293289.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.638c2d50qbO5Xx&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_5735017_319_317_10696_5734917_10084_453_10924_454_10083_10618_10920_10921_10304_10307_10922_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10059_10884_5735217_10887_100031_321_322_10103_5735117,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=0bac93bc-ae4c-4090-b262-db59c67a4531-0&algo_pvid=0bac93bc-ae4c-4090-b262-db59c67a4531

3.3nf 1600V ->https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20pcs-CBB-capacitor-332-1600V-332J-1-6KV-3300pF-3-3nF-P15-CBB81-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film/32284476800.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.8.2b0e77d4Q3xOJR&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_5735017_319_317_10696_5734917_10084_453_10924_454_10083_10618_10920_10921_10304_10307_10922_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10059_10884_5735217_10887_100031_321_322_10103_5735117,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=52ec789a-cc63-40ec-aca5-266772301743-1&algo_pvid=52ec789a-cc63-40ec-aca5-266772301743


Diodes D134 and D135 tests OK

[grantspain]

yes they will do the job

[perjmolsen]

Hi GrantSpain

Just an update - the package with the new HOT has arrived today.. BUT
It seems that i have order the wrong ones  ... I just saw that i have ordered BU2508DF -> https://belchip.by/sitedocs/00011468.pdf
It must be an BU508AF -> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/bu508af.pdf

Can i use the BU2508? it has i higher collector to emitter volt rating 1500V
The BU508AF has a collector to emiter rating of 700V

Or is it best to go safe and get BU508AF

[grantspain]

transistor with a d means is has a built in diode, you should not use that on that chassis
you can use a bu508a, aw or af

[princess prin prin]

You can use:

BU508A (needs insulator)
BU508AW (needs insulator)
BU508AF
BU508AFI
BU2508AF
BU2508AX
SGSI508V
S2000AF
S2000N

[perjmolsen]

Hi Grantspain and Princess prin prin 

Thanks for your replys 
I will wait for the correct component

[perjmolsen]

Hi

Now the last components has arrived

I have put in a new HOT (BU508A) so i have added a insulator.
Also mounted new poly caps C174 8.2nf 1600V and c172 3.3nf

So now am exiting to test if i have fixed it, but it will be tomorrow - i will keep you updated - hopefully with good news.

[perjmolsen]

Hi

An update on this

When i turn it on i have neck glow at the tube and a white picture.
If i turn up on flybacki got raster lines.

I am unable to get any picture on the screen it is all white....and i have connected the game input.
It seems that if i start a game there might be colors... when i take a picture i can faint see colors in my phone

[perjmolsen]

Hi

I might have fund the reason for the white picture
I have tested T1 (BC548) that where OK

Tested R40 its dead! i guess that is a 20ohm (red - black-black-gold)
But looking at the schematics its a 10ohm.. what  to put in....

The closest i got in my parts box of 1/2W metal film is
15 ohm or 12 ohm can i use one of those... and what one...

[princess prin prin]

It's 10 ohm, even the one you have is. 12 ohm should be OK too.

[grantspain]

yep as previous poster says

[perjmolsen]

Hi

A HAPPY UPDATE
ITS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!! 

A BIG BIG Thanks to you both for all your help!

Just need to figure out why the one to the left (the one that i have repaired) is not as clear, as the one to the right.
I have tried to adjust it both on flyback and the other knobs.. but I can definitely live with it - it is fully playable

[grantspain]

red cut off is too high on left- neck board pots, there are 3 colour cut offs and 2 colour gain on the neck card

well done btw

[perjmolsen]

Hi Grant

Thanks 
I really appreciate all the help that i got from you and princess prin prin. 
Without that I where unable to fix my game.