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Author Topic: 4 player CP options?  (Read 5513 times)

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Buick455

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4 player CP options?
« on: October 19, 2018, 04:41:18 pm »
Who's got the best layout for a 4 player CP with 3" trackball? Pedestal friendly

I'm thinking..
6 buttons for p1 & p2
2 buttons for p3 & p4
Plyr 1-4 start buttons
Pause & Exit, maybe?

All I can think of is Simpsons needed 2 buttons for 3 & 4 players. Wheres the list of games that were 4 player and needed 3 or more? or simply, what will I be unable to play that is worth playing?

PL1

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 05:08:06 pm »
2 buttons for p3 & p4
Make that 4 buttons or 3 buttons if you don't care about the D&D games like Shadow Over Mystara.

Pause & Exit, maybe?
The number of admin buttons and dedicated buttons vs. shifted functions is a matter of personal preference.

The FAQ has a list of pros and cons for each approach.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160809113045/http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=FAQ#Number_of_admin_buttons

Also, you forgot to include 4 coin buttons and/or coin slots.


Scott

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2018, 10:45:01 pm »
I would either find a coin door or use hidden buttons for the coins. The top of the CP needs to be minimal. Only reason for pause and exit would be ease of use for guests.

I swear there was a list somewhere that had all the 4 player games and button count (I think it even noted 4 or 8way) but cant seem to find it.

-2 Buttons-
Simpsons
TMNT
Capt America & Avengers

-3 Buttons-
X-Men
NBA Jam
NFL Blitz

-4 Buttons-
D&D Shadow Over Mystara

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 12:43:52 am »
I swear there was a list somewhere that had all the 4 player games and button count (I think it even noted 4 or 8way) but cant seem to find it.

4 Player:
2 On 2 Open Ice Challenge
Alien Storm
Alien vs. Predator
Arabian Fight
Arabian Magic
Armored Warriors
Atari Football
Atari Soccer
Barricade
Battle Circuit
Battle Toads
Blazing Tornado
Bomber Man World
Brute Force
Bucky O'Hare
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs
Captain America and the Avengers
Captain Commando
Car Polo
Checkmate
Comotion
Cops'n Robbers
Crime Fighters
Crypt Killer
Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat
Dark Adventure
Dead Connection
Desert Assault
Dungeons and Dragons : Shadow Over Mystara
Dungeons and Dragons : Tower of Doom
Dunk Mania
Dynablaster
Euro Champ '92
Escape Kids
Exvania
Face Off
Football Champ
Gauntlet
Gauntlet II
Gladiator
GI Joe
Golden Axe: The Revenge of Death Adder
Growl
Hard Dunk
Hat Trick Hero
Hat Trick Hero '95
Heated Barrel
High Impact Football
Hit Me
Hit the Ice
Hook
Hyper Sports Special
John Elway's Team Quarterback
Judge Dredd
Karate Blazers
Knights of Valor
Knights of Valor 2
Knuckle Heads
Main Event
Metamorphic Force
Mystic Warriors
NBA on NBC
NBA on NBA Gold
NBA Jam
NBA Jam Tournament Edition
NBA Hangtime
NBA Maximum Hangtime
NBA Showtime
NBA Slam Dunk
Ninja Baseball Batman
Ninja Kids
Numan Athletics
NFL Blitz
NFL Blitz 99
NFL Blitz 2000/Gold
Oriental Legend
Pigout
Power Drive
Powered Gear: Strategic Variant Armor Equipment
Punk Shot
Quartet
Racin' Force
Rim Rockin' Basketball
Ring Rage
Run and Gun
Run and Gun 2
Runark
Rushing Heroes
Sangokushi II
Saturday Night Slam Masters aka Muscle Momber Duo
Senjou no Ookami II
Silent Dragon
Snow Bros. 2 - With New Elves
Spiderman
Star Guards
Sunset Riders
Super Cup Finals
Super High Impact
Tecmo Bowl
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles : Turtles in Time
TouchDown Fever
TouchDown Fever 2
Tournament Cyberball 2072
Tournament Table
Trog
Turbo Force
Undercover Cops
US Championship V'ball
Vendetta
Violent Storm
Vs. Tennis
Warlords
Warriors of Fate
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey
Wheel Of Fortune
Wild West C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa
World Soccer Finals
WWF Wrestlefest
X-Men

3 player:
Alien vs Predator
Championship Sprint
Combatribes
Double Dragon 3 - The Rosetta Stone
Hot Rod
Iron Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road
Knights of the Round
Mercs
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker
Pit Fighter
Rampage
Rampage World Tour
Rampart
Super Sprint
Xenophobe


Scott

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2018, 10:42:59 am »
The only ones that used 4 were the two D&D games.  There are no others.

I'd go with 3.  All the sports games use 3.

I'd add a coin button for each player.
It's possible to make a combo enter coin, but then everyone who uses the machine has to know the combo.
Some 4 player games determine which character you are by which of the 4 coin slots are used.

Pause and a dedicated exit are all the admin buttons you need.
People will try to talk you out of the pause.  I don't have one and sometimes wish I did.

The real reason I'm posting....heed my signature.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 01:43:12 pm by BadMouth »

opt2not

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2018, 11:21:24 am »
The only ones that used 4 were the two D&D games.  There are no others.

I'd go with 3.  All the sports games use 3.

I'd add a coin button for each player.
It's possible to make a combo enter coin, but then everyone who uses the machine has to know the combo.
Some 4 player games determine which character you are by which of the 4 coin slots are used.

Pause and a dedicated exit are all the admin buttons you need.
People will try to talk you out of the pause.  I don't have one and sometimes wish I did.

The real reason I'm posing....heed my signature.
^this x 100! Everything said here is right on the money.

slickam

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2018, 05:53:20 pm »
The only ones that used 4 were the two D&D games.  There are no others.

Don't a couple of the IGS PGM games use 4 buttons on all four players? Knights of Valour, Oriental Legend, The Gladiator?

Katana Man

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2018, 06:25:10 pm »
My 4 player control panels have always had 6 buttons for players 3 and 4.  If I want to emulate newer console platforms, it's good to have many buttons.

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2018, 07:14:22 pm »
Yes but you don't want to do that because most console games are meant for consoles, not arcade cabinets, and the ones that do play well aren't going to need all those buttons. 

Also most 4 player games (not all) don't need start buttons.  Those famous konami beat em ups started the game when you pressed any button.  The remaining Capcom games can be mapped in mame so that the start and the player button 1 are both mapped to the same button, essentially replicating the same effect. 


My advice for anyone doing a 4p control panel is to , A, not do that unless you are really sure you have three other people that want to play old games with you and B, look at a konami 4p panel for inspiration. 

Katana Man

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2018, 07:28:49 pm »
Howard, "you" may not want to do 6 buttons for players 3 and 4, but I do because there are tons of console games that are great for 4 player family/kids parties.  When my 7 year old has friends over, they don't know what console it came from or if it's an arcade game or a PC game. All they want to do is play together and have fun. Additionally to kids, there is a psychological bonus of players 3-4 being exactly the same as player 1-2 since they have the same amount of buttons each. No arguing.  6 buttons also makes it clear to new players which direction is up on the joystick. No explanation need.  For my tastes, more LED lit buttons is always nice too.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 07:46:58 pm by Katana Man »

Buick455

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2018, 07:58:41 pm »
The reason this all started... We had a bad lightning storm a few weeks ago and I now have 2-55" TVs that work perfectly other then sound. Neither were mine, I'm a loon, I unplug everything if there is a bad storm. My neighbors on the other hand are normal so I get their fried ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I am thinking of wall-mounting vertically with a surround of some sort to mask off the unneeded areas (if I can figure that part out in software) so I have digital bezels & maybe marquee. Someone did this with an upright if I remember correctly. Typing it makes me think I am in over my head already, lol.

Thanks for the list Scott! This will help, my list was off the top of my head + the D&D game you mentioned. There was another list (excel spreadsheet) but I'm thinking now it wasn't here on BYOAC

The only ones that used 4 were the two D&D games.  There are no others.

I'd go with 3.  All the sports games use 3.

I'd add a coin button for each player.
It's possible to make a combo enter coin, but then everyone who uses the machine has to know the combo.
Some 4 player games determine which character you are by which of the 4 coin slots are used.

Pause and a dedicated exit are all the admin buttons you need.
People will try to talk you out of the pause.  I don't have one and sometimes wish I did.

The real reason I'm posting....heed my signature.

3 buttons is the current plan, This will be built out of a lot of scraps I have layin around. One of those scraps happens to be a 4P Ipac, so If I decide to toss in the 4th button for P3&4 its not a big deal.

If I cant find a reasonable $$ coin-door solution, option 2 is 4 of those coin return (looking) buttons (might be overwhelming), option 3 is 4 concave buttons sunk in the underside of the overhang of the CP box.

Pause is important, VERY important, phone calls & piss breaks.. does it need to be on top? no, but if ESC is, why not. The rest of admin can/should be done with wireless KB. The way I look at it is this, what buttons do you NOT want your 6yo nieces and nephews pressing? dont put them on the CP.

Ok! got it, P1 P2 P3 at a 45d angle and P4 sqrd to the screen, right?  :lol

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2018, 08:26:59 pm »
6 buttons also makes it clear to new players which direction is up on the joystick.

Oh dear.

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2018, 09:07:22 pm »
Nah, 6-buttons on P3 and P4 are a waste of parts and the space you need to accommodate them for. The console argument doesn’t hold much weight as many if not all those 4-multiplayer games were not designed for arcade controls in mind.
Look, it’s your build, so do whatever. We’re just trying to give you advice based on experience. In all the history of this forum, you think we haven’t tried to accommodate for 4-player console games? It’s not a new idea, and it’s been tried again and again. The bottom line is, there are too many variables in control schemes to account for with games that were primarily designed for console controllers. Even a game like Castle Crashers seems like it would work, but with the layout of the buttons and the sheer number of buttons used, it’s actually really awkward to play. This is the case with many console games.

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2018, 09:14:45 pm »
6 buttons also makes it clear to new players which direction is up on the joystick.
Oh my. Just read this part. Yikes!
If you’re angling you’re Joysticks for P3 and P4, you’re doing it wrong. Look at Badmouth’s signature as the correct way to mount those player’s Joysticks.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 09:16:36 pm by opt2not »

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2018, 10:46:04 pm »
If I cant find a reasonable $$ coin-door solution, option 2 is 4 of those coin return (looking) buttons (might be overwhelming), option 3 is 4 concave buttons sunk in the underside of the overhang of the CP box.


I'd just put a coin button next to each start button.
Not sure who is selling them now, but there's usually a vendor on here selling vinyl labels for buttons.

Exit and pause on top the CP panel is ok.

One thing I always do is to never use the default keys for the first four buttons for player one in MAME.
Those are the ones like CTRL, ALT, SHIFT.  I remap the encoder to use V,B,N,M instead, then remap mame globally.
They used to cause problems with some other older emulators, but I'm not sure how much of an issue it is with newer ones.
If the encoder can't be remapped, I use those inputs for P1 start and coin since it's not likely that those will be pressed while P1 is still mashing other buttons/directions.

If not remapping the keys, at least disable hotkeys in windows and the video card software if possible.
(CTRL+ALT+arrow key rotates the screen on most video card software.  Pretty common for new users to run into these kinds of issues)


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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2018, 11:01:27 pm »
Howard, "you" may not want to do 6 buttons for players 3 and 4, but I do because there are tons of console games that are great for 4 player family/kids parties.  When my 7 year old has friends over, they don't know what console it came from or if it's an arcade game or a PC game. All they want to do is play together and have fun. Additionally to kids, there is a psychological bonus of players 3-4 being exactly the same as player 1-2 since they have the same amount of buttons each. No arguing.  6 buttons also makes it clear to new players which direction is up on the joystick. No explanation need.  For my tastes, more LED lit buttons is always nice too.

Your right, it is personal preference.  Then again I assume most people want to build a real arcade cabinet with realistically designed control layouts and not a tv with an aircraft carrier in front of it.  Those aluminum bat-tops are really shiny though.  ;)

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2018, 11:25:16 pm »
Not sure who is selling them now, but there's usually a vendor on here selling vinyl labels for buttons.
SlammedNiss sells cut vinyl button labels here.


Scott

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2018, 01:02:40 am »
.. <disregard>
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 01:06:54 am by Katana Man »

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2018, 01:05:21 am »
If you’re angling you’re Joysticks for P3 and P4, you’re doing it wrong. Look at Badmouth’s signature as the correct way to mount those player’s Joysticks.
Why do you think it's wrong?

***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2018, 01:06:18 am »
Yeah, I don't want to get this topic off track.

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2018, 01:50:47 am »
P3 and P4 really should have 8 buttons each. Also, give each player their own "pause" button... ::)
%Bartop

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2018, 02:02:14 am »
P3 and P4 really should have 8 buttons each. Also, give each player their own "pause" button... ::)

They also need their own trackballs and spinners. And a dedicated 4-way joystick.

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2018, 02:34:41 pm »
Don't forget some top fire joysticks, a tron stick, and some mini steering wheels. 

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2018, 04:57:14 pm »
I feel like somehow I am going to get blamed for this.

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2018, 02:58:47 pm »
I feel like somehow I am going to get blamed for this.

Its all your fault you Bar Steward!


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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 03:04:32 pm »
Yeah, I don't want to get this topic off track.
Feel free to start a thread about this for others to chime in as well.  Better yet, you could do a search regarding 4 player panels and you'll see multiple threads with explanations to why angling your P3/P4 joysticks is wrong. 

Though, this thread seems to have gone off-topic anyway...

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2018, 04:27:44 pm »
Sorry guys, but when I see someone giving bad advice I just can't shut up.  It's the reason I left the main forum for several years.... got sick of explaining to noobs why what they were doing was wrong and how their beautiful snowflake of a cab might have some functional issues due to their choices. 

I know it makes me sound like a jerk, but I'd rather be the jerk giving good advice rather than the nice guy too afraid to steer people in the right direction. 

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2018, 04:37:23 pm »
Sorry guys, but when I see someone giving bad advice I just can't shut up.  It's the reason I left the main forum for several years.... got sick of explaining to noobs why what they were doing was wrong and how their beautiful snowflake of a cab might have some functional issues due to their choices. 

I know it makes me sound like a jerk, but I'd rather be the jerk giving good advice rather than the nice guy too afraid to steer people in the right direction.

No apologies- you’re correct. My image was posted with the thought that it had be justified yet again!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: 4 player CP options?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2018, 04:40:52 pm »
No worries man, I took it the way you intended it.  Just wanted to apologize for getting off topic.  I tend to do that a lot.