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Author Topic: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion  (Read 2425 times)

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mR_CaESaR

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Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« on: September 15, 2018, 03:04:17 am »
Not sure if this should be in this forum, or the project announcement, I just figured since it's directly about a driving cab, I'd put it here.

I purchased this off an Aussie Arcade user on FB (thanks Greg!)

So here it is! The project cab! And boy is it going to be one hell of a project.

I put a WTB post to get an L2M2 kit in preparation for this... I just didn't expect it to come so quick on both the project cab and the L2M2 kit. Nevertheless, it has happened so I now have this mammoth task to to.



The end goal is for this to be a Sega model 2 emulation cab (I'll take model 3 or Naomi as well if it's possible, but the main objective is model two true FFB like the aecade). I will interface the original parts with a logitech Driving Force pcb using the L2M2 kit. I've never worked with a racer before so this is going to take a while.

I haven't spent that much time with it today as I'm occupied doing othet things but the quick 30 or so minutes I spent on it, here's what I found:

Chassis needs major work. I'm not sure if Joey can fix this. I'll email him and see if it's doable.



The neck board is almost in two pieces! :(



I'm not sure if the tube is functional...



I always thought these were 29 inch? I wonder why this is a 26 inch. I have a spare 29 inch tube and MS9 and would've much preferred to use my spare than have to look for a new or replace the chassis and possibly tube.

The sides are shot! Don't have any major issues with this as I have plans to replace it with Daytona sides (I'm going to assume they fit perfectly fine?



The shifter, pedal, wheel are all intact, but I'm not sure if they are operational.



And the game storage section.... A whole spaghetti of wires..

This is going to be the most challenging build to date.



Anyone know where you can buy these 12 core wires?



To do/buy:

- I would say clean, but I want to test functionality before anything, so the first thing is to get the chassis sorted
- wire up mains to the step down and connect the monitor
- quickly wire up a jamma harness and switching psu to test the monitor
- purchase a logitech Driving Force so the L2M2 can be connected up
- wire up the ffb, L2M2 and logitech Driving Force pcb
- purchase a JPAC to connect the PC to the CRT monitor (will need to use CRT Emudriver)
- purchase a daytona vr button panel
- start configuring the pc to ensure it all works
- once all that is done and confirmed, then I'll spend time on the aesthetics
- clean thoroughly
- purchase daytona sides
- purchase daytona seat back
- start playing!

I seriously thought my guncon/Namco gun project was daunting... That had nothing on how overwhelmed I currently am taking on this project!

If anyone has input or has done something similar, please feel free to add your comments or insight. I'm going to need as much help as I possibly can.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 04:23:41 am by mR_CaESaR »

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 03:06:03 am »
I purchased a non working cab as I didn't care for the game as I was always going to rip it out.

I will assume all other parts are faulty too, but I honestly don't know. The steering module doesn't look too bad albeit a few wires cut.

 







And of course... It wouldn't be the same if there wasn't chewing gum filth at the back of the wheel :)



Is it safe to assume all Sega cabs are interchangeable sides?







I wouldn't even know where to start in fixing this panel, so I will eventually purchase some daytona ones - on the hope that they will fit

morton

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 05:13:46 am »
I have a Versus City with a small hole in one side panel. While I would like to replace it, it seems destined to with that side against the wall. If you're afforded the luxury, you could always put the cracked side facing a wall for now.

I loved Sega Rally as a kid. It wasn't common here as we tended to have crap, so it always stood out when I got to an arcade that had it. As awesome as Daytona is, I find myself wanting a Sega Rally more. Less common to me. Was Daytona big in Australia? I can't say I paid attention. Was too enamoured with lowboys hah.

It's funny, back in the day the Toyota's had one of the most tricked out turbos that bypassed the rules and was done so well you needed to go inside to tell it was. Perfect theme for a cab that looks stock but is tricked out inside is that Celica. Now I want one too!

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 07:03:20 am »


I have a Versus City with a small hole in one side panel. While I would like to replace it, it seems destined to with that side against the wall. If you're afforded the luxury, you could always put the cracked side facing a wall for now.

I loved Sega Rally as a kid. It wasn't common here as we tended to have crap, so it always stood out when I got to an arcade that had it. As awesome as Daytona is, I find myself wanting a Sega Rally more. Less common to me. Was Daytona big in Australia? I can't say I paid attention. Was too enamoured with lowboys hah.

It's funny, back in the day the Toyota's had one of the most tricked out turbos that bypassed the rules and was done so well you needed to go inside to tell it was. Perfect theme for a cab that looks stock but is tricked out inside is that Celica. Now I want one too!

Unfortunately both panels are extremely beat up.

Daytona USA to this day is still in pubs and arcade bars, it's a very popular game.

For me, a Sega cab with a functioning daytona is the pinnacle of arcade cabs to own. I've got my astros, my vewlixs and my Time Crisis cab... This is the last one in the list to get. Hopefully I can get a second one at a later point when I get this fixed.

I do like Sega rally, but not as much as daytona. Fortunately, if I achieve what I want to achieve with the L2M2, I'll have the best of both worlds with an operational model 2 cab.

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 11:03:44 pm »
Spent some time on the cab and just gave it a good clean...

I'd imagine this is about 20+ years of filth :) :)



Check out the pedals!



Also managed to get a logitech Driving Force wheel and tested it on the m2 emulator and she appears to run just fine.



Time to rip apart this pour soul



Voila!



Next steps:

- test the monitor - refurbished chassis is on the way (decided to bin the current one based on Joey's recommendation)
- solder up the L2M2 interface
- get some power into the unit
- work out exactly what I need to do to connect the L2M2 to the current wheel setup and FFB module
- work out what to do with the original pedals - does this connect to the original logitech board?

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 09:20:24 am »
Both L2M2 boards now soldered up! (only need one for now, which is fortunate since the second L2M2 is missing a few components)

I'll wait to purchase the insulation tabs before I install the transistors onto the heatsink.

I'm hoping to get my chassis from Jomac sometime this week so I can hopefully get some power to the cab. I really hope the step down transformer is still operational. Will find out soon.

L2M2 kit courtesy of Ray - thanks again! And of course Andy/homepin who made it all happen as a kit



L2M2 soldered up... I really hope I didn't install any components in reverse!



The back view.. As clean as I could solder..



Next steps:

- crt chassis and power to the cab
- work out what I need to connect
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 09:22:43 am by mR_CaESaR »

bandicoot

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 11:37:06 am »
L2M2 is outdate and it's not easy to find logitech now
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,158110.0.html
I post the new configuration for model 2 , L2M2 is really good but your steering wheel will have oscillation with PWM2M2 everything is good , and you buy a clone of the maker of this system but as i said it's a good system , PWM2M2 is better

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 05:47:07 pm »
L2M2 is outdate and it's not easy to find logitech now
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,158110.0.html
I post the new configuration for model 2 , L2M2 is really good but your steering wheel will have oscillation with PWM2M2 everything is good , and you buy a clone of the maker of this system but as i said it's a good system , PWM2M2 is better
I understand the L2M2 is outdated, however, it's far more accessible for me. We had a person locally who made L2M2 kits for people and the sacrificial pcb was easy enough to find and also relatively cheap.

We've now also got another guy who's making another set of pcbs to make the connection between the steering, L2M2 and logitech pcbs much easier.

I can live with the oscillation on the L2M2 because there is a pretty decent community.

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 08:48:06 pm »
Just completed more procurement

JPAC - to connect the vga from pc to the crt (unfortunately it's the only way I know at the moment as this is the way I have my groovymame setup)

Jamma edge harness - to connect the jpac to the cab, will take care of video and possibly a couple of additional buttons for FE management

Daytona 2 dashboard with the VR panel - hoping the dash is in better condition than my current one, but I'm not sure if it's a straight swap without modification... I'll find out when it arrives. The dash was a bonus since I mainly purchased for the VR buttons.

Finally, the pac-drive to manage the vr buttons with ramjet's software.

Hopefully by the time these arrive, Ryan's pcb will be ready for sale to make life much easier connecting the L2M2 to the logitech to the steering module :)

Fun times!



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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2018, 05:49:28 pm »
Has been a busy couple of days in the receiving of the procured items...

Joey sent me the refurbished chassis the other day, I didn't have the right connectors though to wire it up.



Other various parts and my rs components order for the correct connectors and crimps.



I believe I now have everything I need to complete this build...

Except time :D (sorry of our lives right?)

- racing cab (complete with tube, seat, model 2 wheel, pedals, shifter): check!
- crt chassis (ms8-26): check!
- pc with CRT emudriver video card: check! 
- L2M2 interface kit soldered (including isolation kit on the mosfet, still need to jump the wires on pins 1-3 and 5-7 though): check!
- logitech Driving Force wheel: check! 
- jpac: check!
- jamma edge harness to connect the jpac for video and a few buttons: check!
- vr buttons: check! 
- pac drive to manage the LEDs on the vr buttons: check! 
- knowledge to connect it all up..... Not a f&3#$ng clue! :D :D

Hopefully in the next few days I can do the following:

- put power into the cab including the step down transformer
- wire up the chassis and monitor (need to find a pinout for the monitor)
- configure the pc to with CRT emudriver
- do a quick test of the ramjet software with the vr buttons.

Once I have the above in working order, then it's time to tackle the elephant in the room that is the FFB wheel :D

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 09:08:27 am »
Well the VR buttons are done and dusted!

Used the following schematic:





The moment you plug in the USB all lights are lit up, it's only once you load thr RamjetVR software that it turns off



Closer look at the wiring..





Final wiring details for the setup:

LEDs handled by the Pac-Drive:

On VR Pin 1 = 5V on Pac-Drive Pin + (top left)
On VR Pin 2 = Start LED on Pac-Drive Pin 1
On VR Pin 3 = Red LED on Pac-Drive Pin 2
On VR Pin 4 = Blue LED on On Pac-Drive Pin 3
On VR Pin 5 = Yellow LED on On Pac-Drive Pin 4
On VR Pin 6 = Green LED on On Pac-Drive Pin 5

Buttons handled by the JPAC (or ipac or whatever you're using)

On VR Pin 7 = Start on JPAC pin 1SW4
On VR Pin 8 = Red button on JPAC pin 1SW5
On VR Pin 9 = Blue button on JPAC pin 1SW6
On VR Pin 10 = Yellow button on JPAC pin 1SW7
On VR Pin 11 = Green button on JPAC pin 1SW8
On VR Pin 12 = GND on JPAC pin GND

And a video of it all in action!

In demo mode

https://youtu.be/SkFX3dDWJfU

Cycling through the button presses

https://youtu.be/IXMy-gdFEr4
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 04:53:53 pm by mR_CaESaR »

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2018, 06:38:35 am »
We have power and picture!
 



I'm wondering if my cabling is wrong or I need to adjust pots or I've putting something incorrectly in the chassis.

The main thing is the transformer works, the tube works and I've got picture :) :)

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vandale

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2018, 05:29:04 pm »
Great thread. I have 2 empty sega rally's so am following with vested interest  ;D

Yup the ol pandora box doesnt have the best output sync quality and always need pot adjustments, may need a degaus also.

If you need a better condition gear shift top cover and are willing to pay shipping then I have one here you can have.

Cheers

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2018, 08:13:48 am »
And the software woes begin!

Not sure what happened as it was working the other day... 





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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2018, 08:15:14 am »
Also have horrible convergence..

I just need to work up the courage to fix it..



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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2018, 09:10:39 am »
Update on convergence :

Elvis from OCAU was heaps helpful with some tips on fixing my convergence issue and one in particular when it's all fixed

Quote
Once you've got the convergence set to spot on, it's also common to put a permanent marker line across the convergence rings, so that if you fiddle with them againin the future, you've got a reference for the default state.

This got comment made me look on the neck as I thought I saw markings previously...

This is what it looked upon checking





So the logical part in me thought, surely these should all line up.. As you can see from the images, some of the markings were almost 90 degrees from its original marking..

I figured, why the hell not, it's already stuffed..i couldn't stuff it up anymore so I turned the rings to match the marking as best as I could (powered off)

Now the rings look like this



Turned it on and what do you bloody know! She's been fixed quite dramatically!!! (well, compared to my initial image)



There's still some convergence and I'll probably tweak it a little more, but this is a massive difference and I'm more content with this image than the previous convergence image!

Thanks again elvis!

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2018, 06:51:08 pm »


And the software woes begin!

Not sure what happened as it was working the other day...


Found the reason why the emulator kept on crashing!

I initially though it was an update, so I rolled back a few updates but that didn't work.

I did a fresh install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, zero updates, installed directx_Jun2010_redist.exe and crt emudriver...

I launched m2 emulator and EXACTLY the same issue the moment I load daytona.

The only thing that's changed is the DVI to VGA adaptor I bought from Jaycar. The moment I used the same cable the other night, a dvi to hdmi cable... Boom! It worked perfectly!

So I need to find a different dvi to vga adapter so it doesn't crash.


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baritonomarchetto

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 01:49:26 am »
Does your videocard support pixel shader 2?

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 01:50:23 am »
I'm not sure... It's an ati 5450.

I use it for my groovymame setup and it appears to work fine.

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2018, 07:22:51 am »
OK, so after many many hours of mucking around, I've finally fixed the issue by replacing the whole bloody PC!!!

I'm not sure how or why, but the Win7 64 bit 2gb Core 2 Duo with a 5450 setup refuses to work.

I changed the PC to what I was going to use for my Shmups groovymame setup (i3, 8gb, 5450, win7 x64, crt emudriver 2.0) and what do you know!!!

The SAME DVI-TO-VGA adaptor, cable, jpac, software drivers made it work perfectly! The only thing I'll do to complete the test is rip out the video card on the working pc and put it on the Core 2 Duo PC to rule out the video card.

I present to you... DAYTOOOOOOOONNNNAAAAAAAA!!! :) :) :)

https://youtu.be/sN3OJGL_c7c

Next steps:

- Connect up the L2M2 and get steering working!!!!

vandale

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2018, 04:55:30 pm »
my m2 crashes like that if I dont have the speakers plugged in

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2018, 05:56:42 pm »
my m2 crashes like that if I dont have the speakers plugged in
That's very interesting and I will admit there were no speakers connected. I will try it out at some point.

But overnight, curiosity got the better of me, so I switched around the video and the conclusion I have is the core2duo pc is a dud when crt emudriver is installed!

The same video card installed in the core2duo that kept on crashing works perfectly fine in my i3 setup (also without speakers)

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2018, 07:15:51 am »
my m2 crashes like that if I dont have the speakers plugged in
You sir are a legend!

I was able to replicate the issue every single time.

The moment I plugged in speakers, everything was working fine as expected with a dvi to vga adaptor.

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2018, 04:07:07 am »
Got a sneaky hour and a bit to try and identify the wires that I require..



The wiring will look like this. I pretty sure this is all I will require..



Hopefully all goes well and in the next few days, I have a steering wheel that works!

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2018, 09:23:19 pm »
Finally wired up the L2M2 to power and jumped the pins in U7 (1 and 3, 5 and 7)

What a PITA to get RV1 and RV5 to 20V and RV2 and RV3 to 12.5V!

I get 19.99 or 20.03 and then when I take a reading another time it goes to 19.95 same thing with RV2 and RV3!

The good thing is, the L2M2 appears to be working based on the LEDs being powered :)



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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2018, 10:25:28 pm »
Finally got a solid 20v and 12.5v on the respective sections!





The L2M2 is now configured!

I've got my steering pots, I've got my clutch points and all the respective points on the L2M2. Let's hope I can connect up at some point tonight or tomorrow!

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2018, 04:39:23 am »
Getting very close to wiring this baby up!



Made a 6 pin connector to wire up the two clutch wires from the L2M2 board and the 3 wires for the steering pot.

24v is wired to each other and the logitech input signals are wired up.

I just need to wire up the 100v from the ffb motor to the step down and the two other wires from the ffb into the cw and ccw of the L2M2 and the neutral into the gnd of the step down!

If all goes well, I should be able to see the wheel device manager and the pots should turn!

I need to find how to enable FFB in the m2 emulator...

I'm hoping by the end of tonight I have something!

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2018, 07:14:31 am »
Making sure I have my rubber shoes on :D

I seriously need to clean the work area for safety!

Nothing like an exposed crt :)



Wires! Wires! Wires everywhere!



OK so the first take of it all wired up has happened and I'm calling it a night!

Here are the results:

- Wheel is detected in Device Properties
- FFB motor engages when steered all the way to the right, but not to the left
- No FFB is detected in M2 Emulator like the original game, only when I steer all the way to the right
- Wheel has a "jitter" in device properties
- Wheel is showing a button pressed, I'm not sure if I have to plug in the main controller pcb from the wheel for the button not to be in a "pressed" status.

Here are some vids to show some of the things I've observed

The FFB engaging and the jitter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FBRHJNWqPc

First run - wheel appears to steer as expected, but the FFB isn't working as expected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTAiQJkBByM

Now where to begin with the trouble shooting:

- Confirm continuity on the clutch
- Swap the clutch wires around (would this matter?)
- Find out if there's a setting that has to be "enabled" on .ini file for the M2 emulator
- Not sure about that jitter on the wheel properties
- Check if plugging in the pad pcb of the wheel will make a difference to the continually pressed button
- Any other suggestions?

It's never easy! :D :D

bandicoot

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2018, 12:22:03 pm »
first install logitech driver
yes in .ini of m2 emu you must have enableffb =1

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2018, 08:25:07 pm »
Yeah i tried enabling the ffb in the ini but it didnt help.

I'm going to assume it's because I don't have the logitech profiler installed.

Have you got a link of the profiler? I checked the logitech website and I couldn't find one for the driving force.. Only the Ex version.

I also installed the latest logitech software and couldn't find the logitech wheel.

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bandicoot

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2018, 04:55:37 am »
Driver for EX and force is the same

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2018, 04:56:22 am »
Thanks! I'll try that one.

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mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2018, 08:47:57 am »
Another day, another attempt!

Installed the Logitech Gaming Software and went through the calibration of the wheel.

I'm pretty sure the software driver made both CW and CCW work on each side

Now to work out how to get the feedback working as it's supposed to in game and I need to figure out where that squeak is coming from when I turn left.

https://youtu.be/Th4hCdV6F2I

I've enabled the force feedback to work in the emulator.ini file, but I'm still not getting the feedback I'm expecting in game, only when I engage to the left or right where the wheel stops.

This looks like it's a software issue more than anything.

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bandicoot

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2018, 10:45:33 am »
your force are inverted just invert the brown and violet cable

after we will see for m2 emu
And the squeak is from ????? a lot of possiblity but if you check all your screw specialy wheels where are belts ( very small screw ( 2 one each wheel inside two small hole))
excuse i'm french not very easy sometime to explain
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 10:57:21 am by bandicoot »

deano7649

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2018, 01:59:10 pm »
Good work so far with your conversion  :applaud:

You need the flappy paddle pot pcb from the logitech to be connected as it will show as buttons pressing, I had this problem and reconnecting solved it

You may also need to wire a cap across the clutch connector on the l2m2, its supposed to help with weak clutches

I've done this conversion on a Sega Rally cab about 3 years ago but my memory is a bit hazy (not good as the other half of the twin needs to be converted to Logitech/L2M2 still !)

Check this out as I got most of my info from here...

http://www.ukvac.com/forum/daytona-2-cab-conversion_topic347616_page1.html

EDIT : and this link to for wiring in cab buttons to the logitech button pcb

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B637CSO6oe1fUVcyV09mSmdZSlU/edit
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 02:06:21 pm by deano7649 »

bandicoot

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2018, 02:20:43 pm »
before i use a EX and force PCB with some trick you'll find the good answer i hope
I'll try to help you but like i said the really best way is................. the new board of french guy AGANYTE and ETIENNE
But be sure L2M2 is good enough if you configure it good

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2018, 05:54:47 am »

Ok. So I'm reporting back!

Changes to the RV4 didn't take the squeak out, I have a feeling I'm going to have to adjust the belt.

Made the changes listed in the byoac thread and also increased the ffb in profiler to 150 and it's so much better!

Here it is in the profiler..

https://youtu.be/4DyLOGVDhDk

And here it is in game (of course it's daytona :D)

https://youtu.be/lZ8ADfYKSRY

I think I'm pretty close to completing the wheel mod, just have to get the pedals working so I can actually sit down on the thing!

I'm wondering if this the same type of behaviour that's expected from the L2M2? Does the wheel supposed to stay engaged when turned to absolute right or left? Or should it re centre?

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segaturbo

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2018, 06:42:54 am »
hi there wheel should return to centre  :)

mR_CaESaR

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2018, 06:49:18 am »
Ok.. I need to figure out why it's not centering..

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bandicoot

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Re: Sega Rally Cab to PC Conversion
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2018, 07:50:43 am »
x

  
 

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