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Author Topic: FFB Arcade Plugin  (Read 287688 times)

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Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #320 on: December 06, 2019, 10:34:23 pm »
Anyone up for doing some testing? Would be helpful incase any bugs etc

segaturbo

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #321 on: December 07, 2019, 03:55:51 am »
Anyone up for doing some testing? Would be helpful incase any bugs etc

I would be up for it but I only use wheel if any help  ;)

Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #322 on: December 07, 2019, 05:37:34 am »
Cool thanks

Just sent you a PM and same with xbrunox

And isamu.... no lol

alfman

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #323 on: December 07, 2019, 06:02:48 am »
I can testing too. I have a "Logitech Driving Force GT" for testing. By the way can we use "nonag" Versions of Mame?!? Or is it still a NO-GO?!?
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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #324 on: December 07, 2019, 06:04:46 am »
EDITED

F1 Exhaust note?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 10:20:40 am by xbrunox »

Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #325 on: December 07, 2019, 12:51:39 pm »
I can testing too. I have a "Logitech Driving Force GT" for testing. By the way can we use "nonag" Versions of Mame?!? Or is it still a NO-GO?!?

Yeah you can use no nag versions fine now

gareth_iowc

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #326 on: December 07, 2019, 01:53:19 pm »
I will do some testing.

Also found 1.2 is not working with Daytona 2017 with my t300

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #327 on: December 07, 2019, 03:03:00 pm »
I will do some testing.

Also found 1.2 is not working with Daytona 2017 with my t300

well I just tested both Daytona Championship USA and Daytona USA on M2 Emulator and no issues with either

FFB worked fine on both

Rotation was always correct on Daytona USA on M2 Emulator

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #328 on: December 07, 2019, 03:24:14 pm »
New Version of FFB Arcade Plugin!

Now Version 1.3

https://github.com/Boomslangnz/FFBArcadePlugin/releases/tag/1.3

No more specific version of MAME or No-Nag Version, plus Supermodel Emulator games :)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 03:28:04 pm by Boomslang »

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #329 on: December 07, 2019, 05:05:00 pm »
You know how bad I am about committing to projects anymore, but if you make a list of games that don't have force feedback outputs hooked up in mame I can take a look at them.  I'm thinking of doing a custom mame branch.... it's not like mame needs to be constantly updated for racers.  I guarantee you I won't get started before feb/march though. 

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #330 on: December 07, 2019, 05:16:05 pm »
You know how bad I am about committing to projects anymore, but if you make a list of games that don't have force feedback outputs hooked up in mame I can take a look at them.  I'm thinking of doing a custom mame branch.... it's not like mame needs to be constantly updated for racers.  I guarantee you I won't get started before feb/march though.

sounds like a good idea, I have no idea what games actually even have Outputs to begin with, its just been a case of trying them and seeing lol

However I noticed the namco games eg Rave Racer etc don't have FFB Output but they have lamp even though bdam (old member here) tried adding them I believe, I found an old post of his where he posted DIFF file with acedrvrw FFB Output stuff (guess it wasnt accepted by MAME (yet again))

Also, I looked at hard drivn and I dunno wtf is going on there lol, outputs called wheel and it kinda appears to be FFB but like values go crazy all the time moving all over the place even when you aren't touching wheel so I don't get it at all. Moved on quickly haha

I'll start making a list however as i progress along

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #331 on: December 07, 2019, 09:03:50 pm »
Well if catver.ini is still updated we can use that to get a list of racing games and go from there.  Yeah submission rejection is why I gave up doing it through official channels....  I understand that they want code structured a certain way but coding is some else's style is difficult for a lot of people... myself included. 

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #332 on: December 08, 2019, 12:37:05 pm »
Just heads up as couple things from other forum I posted in

If you aren't receiving any ffb effects etc then please install

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/visual-c-redistributable-runtime-package-all-in-one/

If you cant get Virtua Racing working then change cabinet type to upright

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #333 on: December 10, 2019, 02:27:05 am »
I spent some time analyzing Hard Drivin Force Feedback today (well, more confusing myself and getting barely no where),

so I started looking into the game for some information and reading up on Max Behensky who developed most the game (including doing the force feedback, properly one of the first games ever really) and it's quite complex what he did.

I tracked him down however and sent off an email asking for a bit of guidance (he developed this 30 years ago!!) not really expecting a reply but within a couple hours he replied and sent me some of his knowledge on the subject from what he could remember which was great!

Glad he's got a better memory then me cos I can barely remember what i did a week ago lol

Just thought it was cool :)

« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 02:33:07 am by Boomslang »

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #334 on: December 10, 2019, 10:48:46 am »
I spent some time analyzing Hard Drivin Force Feedback today (well, more confusing myself and getting barely no where),

so I started looking into the game for some information and reading up on Max Behensky who developed most the game (including doing the force feedback, properly one of the first games ever really) and it's quite complex what he did.

I tracked him down however and sent off an email asking for a bit of guidance (he developed this 30 years ago!!) not really expecting a reply but within a couple hours he replied and sent me some of his knowledge on the subject from what he could remember which was great!

Glad he's got a better memory then me cos I can barely remember what i did a week ago lol

Just thought it was cool :)

@Boomslang

I want to thank you for all what you did (and your Team) for the Community. Your Project for me is more than only awesome :-) My English is not the best, but i think you know what i mean :)
May the Force be with us...

Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #335 on: December 10, 2019, 12:19:04 pm »
I spent some time analyzing Hard Drivin Force Feedback today (well, more confusing myself and getting barely no where),

so I started looking into the game for some information and reading up on Max Behensky who developed most the game (including doing the force feedback, properly one of the first games ever really) and it's quite complex what he did.

I tracked him down however and sent off an email asking for a bit of guidance (he developed this 30 years ago!!) not really expecting a reply but within a couple hours he replied and sent me some of his knowledge on the subject from what he could remember which was great!

Glad he's got a better memory then me cos I can barely remember what i did a week ago lol

Just thought it was cool :)

@Boomslang

I want to thank you for all what you did (and your Team) for the Community. Your Project for me is more than only awesome :-) My English is not the best, but i think you know what i mean :)

You're welcome

Glad you are enjoying it  :cheers:

gareth_iowc

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #336 on: December 10, 2019, 04:41:41 pm »
I will do some testing.

Also found 1.2 is not working with Daytona 2017 with my t300

well I just tested both Daytona Championship USA and Daytona USA on M2 Emulator and no issues with either

FFB worked fine on both

Rotation was always correct on Daytona USA on M2 Emulator

I made a quick video of what happens  -

Works as expected on 0.8


Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #337 on: December 10, 2019, 10:27:10 pm »
ok i see the issue


AlternativeMinForceLeft=0
AlternativeMaxForceLeft=-100
AlternativeMinForceRight=0
AlternativeMaxForceRight=100

you had these set to 100 instead of 0

if you are wanting to raise the level above 0 etc for stronger minimum forces

then you would do like (for minimum force to be 20%)

AlternativeMinForceLeft=-20
AlternativeMaxForceLeft=-100
AlternativeMinForceRight=20
AlternativeMaxForceRight=100

notice how the left is negative values and the right is postive (that's important) 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 10:31:48 pm by Boomslang »

Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #338 on: December 12, 2019, 02:07:24 pm »
Made a little progress on Hard Drivin but with how the output value comes through this may not be possible

The ffb value sent from game sends 4 values in a row to determine direction and force strength.

I made a chart with all the values for each force position and Ducon 2016 made a math formula which works great to turn that into a decimal value from 0 to 100 for positive or 0 to -100 for negative from those 4 values

The output itself does not come through as 4 separate values from 4 separate outputs but will send 4 different values quickly in a row from same output

So we made a frame counter to store the last few values sent and then our formula works it out from there

Problem is that the game sends 0x00 and 0xE0 over and over constantly through the wheel output which breaks our formula from working correctly as it stores them as part of recent values all the time.

If I ignore 0x00 and 0xE0 then it works fine for 0 to -100 and 40 to 100 since 0 to 39 requires 0x00 and 0xE0 from output to work

Its little progress anyway but might be all I can do for now until someone can work out how to stop 0x00 and 0xE0 sending constantly from output
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 02:09:32 pm by Boomslang »

gareth_iowc

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #339 on: December 12, 2019, 04:41:14 pm »
ok i see the issue


AlternativeMinForceLeft=0
AlternativeMaxForceLeft=-100
AlternativeMinForceRight=0
AlternativeMaxForceRight=100

you had these set to 100 instead of 0

if you are wanting to raise the level above 0 etc for stronger minimum forces

then you would do like (for minimum force to be 20%)

AlternativeMinForceLeft=-20
AlternativeMaxForceLeft=-100
AlternativeMinForceRight=20
AlternativeMaxForceRight=100

notice how the left is negative values and the right is postive (that's important)

Ah, yeah i see now.

Sorry, I thought going +100 on the left was increasing the power but it was actually making it turn right.

Thanks, I do really like your plugin and it's making playing more enjoyable on a normal pc wheel.

I actually have a model 2 drive board and steering wheel hooked up to the pc so I've been playing with the other settings trying to get it to feel exactly the same. The original hardware really does pull you around so that's why I increased the power.

One thing I have noticed is on the original hardware when you turn it will apply slight feedback in the opposite direction to tighten up the feeling of the wheel. I can't get the ffb plugin to do that but could be something I've missed?


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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #340 on: December 12, 2019, 04:58:23 pm »
Sounds like spring which is there however ill add a option to Force Spring to be on the entire time on M2 Emulator like i have for Supermodel and MAME

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #341 on: December 12, 2019, 05:29:42 pm »
New Version of FFB Arcade Plugin. Now Version 1.3a

https://github.com/Boomslangnz/FFBArcadePlugin/releases

gareth_iowc

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #342 on: December 13, 2019, 06:35:29 pm »
Sounds like spring which is there however ill add a option to Force Spring to be on the entire time on M2 Emulator like i have for Supermodel and MAME

Cool thanks, i'll give it a try.

The model 2 wheel has a center spring but it's not very strong. It uses a left, right and off motor and the output you receive though the wheel is controlled by an electromagnetic clutch.

Once I finish the repair to the drive board i'll upload a video of it working :)

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #343 on: December 15, 2019, 08:02:47 pm »
Found an old list of Outputs Howard had hooked up so been slowly going through them today adding rumble & sine support (incase dinput device for whatever reason)

Some games had 3 player lightgun support so I added ability for 3p rumble etc now

so far added

- Afterburner II
- Alien3
- Beast Busters (Up to 3 Player)
- Ghoul Panic
- GunBuster
- Mechanized Attack
- Laser Ghost (Up to 3 Player)
- Operation Thunderbolt
- Operation Wolf
- Point Blank 2
- Rail Chase
- Revolution X (Up to 3 Player)
- Space Gun
- Terminator 2
- Time Crisis
- Turkey Shoot
- Zombie Raid

Might be it for now however as I can't find any other lists on hooked up outputs lol

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #344 on: December 15, 2019, 09:15:55 pm »
ok found & added few more

- Cisco Heat
- Grand Prix Star
- F-1 Grand Prix Star II
- Chase Bombers
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 09:20:28 pm by Boomslang »

Boomslang

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #345 on: December 16, 2019, 02:38:05 am »
New Version of FFB Arcade Plugin. Now Version 1.4

https://github.com/Boomslangnz/FFBArcadePlugin/releases

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #346 on: December 16, 2019, 03:51:43 pm »
Boomslang is unstoppable!  :notworthy:

Whats the deal with Afterburner 2? Rumble only or true ffb?
Want to try it ASAP!

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #347 on: December 16, 2019, 03:59:01 pm »
It just has a shaker motor when you get hit that used to shake the joystick

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #348 on: December 16, 2019, 04:15:48 pm »
The cockpit version actually had a motor that moved the cockpit up and down and I found those values, but they would crash after stage 1. 

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #349 on: December 16, 2019, 04:39:53 pm »
The cockpit version actually had a motor that moved the cockpit up and down and I found those values, but they would crash after stage 1.

That's a shame.

Most of these supported games wouldn't even be possible without Howard's work so Thanks dude

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #350 on: December 16, 2019, 05:01:31 pm »
Just found an issue where if only playing 1p then rumble etc didn't really work

If so, try this and lemme know if any better
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 01:33:18 am by Boomslang »

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #351 on: December 16, 2019, 08:12:53 pm »
The cockpit version actually had a motor that moved the cockpit up and down and I found those values, but they would crash after stage 1.

That's a shame.

Most of these supported games wouldn't even be possible without Howard's work so Thanks dude

Eh I had more time than anything else back then.  I need to revisit that because I did those prior to the rebuilds the devs did on the sega drivers.  Some of the other sega scalers had a similar deal.... I found the values but after a certain point in the game they just stopped working.  That makes me think it was a broken watchdog or something. 

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #352 on: December 16, 2019, 11:44:08 pm »
I added a couple motion outputs to see how they would react as force feedback, dunno if I like em or not lol

Outrun and Power Drift


No idea how the vibration on real cabinet worked when motion on Power Drift, cos it just seems to vibrate constantly when moving which seems kinda wierd, maybe it was like a fake engine rumble or something

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #353 on: December 17, 2019, 01:38:26 am »
Yeah I remember power drift being weird.  I should probably mention this.... some games had different versions of force feedback for different cabinet types, so changing the cabinet type in the dip switches will activate different outputs. 

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #354 on: December 17, 2019, 02:01:54 am »
Ugh.... how did you pull me back into this stuff?

Power Drift has a few outputs.... vibration motor was just a motor put under the seat I believe and it indeed just gives off engine vibration.  That on works in every cabinet style.  upright_wheel_motor only works in upright/sitdown cabinets.  It's a simple rumble when you go off the road but what's interesting is it doesn't strobe on and off like most games do... rather it's a constant on.  This is because it fires a motor with an offset weight, similar to a modern gamepad.  The real deal is bank_motor_position, which will only appear with the cabinet set to moving (remember to restart the game).  I didn't fully figure it out, but I got enough.  I figured out a 7 position resolution.... 4= centered with lower numbers banking left, down to 1 and higher numbers banking right, up to 7.  I might have that backwards actually.  Anyway, at the time I had trouble crafting an effect that smoothed it out enough so take a look at it and see what you can do.   

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #355 on: December 17, 2019, 02:11:06 am »
Ya I've done it already

Power drift works alright. I just lowered the vibration strength as it was annoying otherwise being too much

But steering otherwise works fine and and yea its 1-7 with 4 being center

Outrun was wierd as I couldnt tell if I had rotation correct for 1 and 2 values on direction, usually it's very obvious but it worked either way really

Anyway if someone wants to try it then PM me and I'll flick it through

You still get the choice of using the standard shaker motor or using the motion on those 2 games

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #356 on: December 17, 2019, 07:55:12 am »
Spent the last night playing Virtua Racing with FFB. For the first time ever in my life!
Thank you guys! What you're doing is amazing!
I've never seen a VR arcade machine in my life and to finaly play it the way it's meant to be played is so much cool!
This plugin (and MAME) is realy keeping gaming history alive.

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #357 on: December 17, 2019, 01:07:03 pm »
Glad you enjoy it

Output reading was overdue

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #358 on: December 17, 2019, 07:44:38 pm »
New Version of FFB Arcade Plugin. Now Version 1.4a

https://github.com/Boomslangnz/FFBArcadePlugin/releases

isamu

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Re: FFB Arcade Plugin
« Reply #359 on: December 18, 2019, 06:36:42 am »
Can't wait to try this new version. Still grinding the living ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of GT Sport to get to level 50 but as soon as that's done I'm all over this!