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Author Topic: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]  (Read 122906 times)

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javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #480 on: November 24, 2019, 04:06:03 pm »
OMG I hate Retropie.

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #481 on: November 24, 2019, 07:58:04 pm »
After a LONG day of doing almost nothing but screwing around with RetroPie, I have all of the gamelists finalized and they appear to be working (almost).  Some of the games are displaying graphical oddities and I don't know what is wrong - for example, Donkey Kong Junior and Popeye are playable but where the high score should be there are weird characters like you'd see during startup.  I'm not sure what happened.

So now I have to figure out how to change control configurations but it's not as simple as it sounds.  I need to figure out how to change global settings (navigating retropie menus), system specific settings (defining global control set up for Arcade, Atari, etc.) and then ROM Specific settings (for tweaking each game for optimal controls).  This has to be the worst part of building these things.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #482 on: November 25, 2019, 04:47:45 am »
Hi mate, love the intro! :)

I'm not sure what's going on with the boot time before the screen comes up.  My boot video comes up in 2-3 seconds from switch on.  I think it was the "splash" setting I changed, but its a while ago now.  I have a RPi 3b+ or something.  Something seems wrong if it's taking that long.

I think I followed this:  https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/14299/tutorial-remove-boot-text-on-the-raspberry-pi-for-noobs

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #483 on: November 25, 2019, 09:39:45 am »
Hi mate, love the intro! :)

I'm not sure what's going on with the boot time before the screen comes up.  My boot video comes up in 2-3 seconds from switch on.  I think it was the "splash" setting I changed, but its a while ago now.  I have a RPi 3b+ or something.  Something seems wrong if it's taking that long.

I think I followed this:  https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/14299/tutorial-remove-boot-text-on-the-raspberry-pi-for-noobs

Thanks - I did notice that other people were getting their videos to run much faster.  I wonder if it is because mine is only 12 seconds?  The recommendation was to make it 30-40 seconds but I don't know how to stretch mine out (yet).  I'll look into it today. 

I'm annoyed at myself for trying to tweak an image that someone else had made instead of building mine from the ground up.  I was just worried about getting the games to run properly since there are quite a few arcade emulators for RetroPie so you have to tell it which one to use when a game is selected.  Seemed complicated.  But trying to figure out what someone else did is probably way worse - for a few hours I had "mame2003", "neogeo" and "fba" showing up as games in my list - I could see them in the file tree via SSH but I was afraid to deleted them because I didn't want to screw anything else up.... but then I just deleted them anyway and it didn't seem to affect anything... but then like 30 minutes later the font in the theme started to look weird and I was getting strange graphical glitches in the Nintendo arcade roms... but I really don't think the two were related but maybe they are?  I'm too far down the rabbit hole to start over from scratch though.


javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #484 on: November 28, 2019, 11:06:46 am »
I posted this in the Raspberry Pi forum but not sure how much attention it will get so I'll ask here:

How do I map the same command to 2 different buttons? Changing the .cfg file to point 2 inputs to the same button doesn't work.  The second command always gets ignored.

For example:

Quote
input_player1_start = "num1"

input_player1_start = "alt"

This will just just map P1 Start to the "1" key on the keyboard and not both the "1" key and the "Alt" key.

There doesn't see to be any combination of commands (that I could think of) that accomplishes this as well:

Quote
input_player1_start = "num1" and "Alt" 

input_player1_start = "num1 , Alt"

input_player1_start = "num1,Alt"
These ALL disable BOTH buttons because presumable Retroarch is confused.

It's making me crazy.  I have Admin buttons on the front panel of my cab (Exit, Select, Start and Pause) but some games like NES use the Start and Select buttons in game so I'd like to also map those to the control panel (where there are multiple extra unused buttons).

Any ideas? 

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #485 on: November 28, 2019, 11:24:45 am »
Any ideas?

Maybe wire both to the same input  rather than trying to make 2 different buttons act as the one ? ( ie. hardware change rather than software )

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #486 on: November 28, 2019, 04:21:02 pm »
Any ideas?

Maybe wire both to the same input  rather than trying to make 2 different buttons act as the one ? ( ie. hardware change rather than software )

I think that would work but I'm trying to just do this for the NES emulator.  With 6 buttons on the CP and only 2 on the NES controller I have 4 extra unused buttons.  Lots of games used Select and Start in game (like the star punch in Punch-Out!! and it is reall awkward to have to hit the front of the cabinet for those things.  If I rewire, I'd lose functionality for the other emulators.  Maybe the answer is to ditch the NES completely.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #487 on: November 28, 2019, 10:11:12 pm »
Any ideas?

Maybe wire both to the same input  rather than trying to make 2 different buttons act as the one ? ( ie. hardware change rather than software )

I think that would work but I'm trying to just do this for the NES emulator.  With 6 buttons on the CP and only 2 on the NES controller I have 4 extra unused buttons.  Lots of games used Select and Start in game (like the star punch in Punch-Out!! and it is reall awkward to have to hit the front of the cabinet for those things.  If I rewire, I'd lose functionality for the other emulators.  Maybe the answer is to ditch the NES completely.
You could use a DPST or DPDT switch to switch between "NES Mode" and "Normal Mode".

Wire the two poles like this
  P1B4 input ______/______ Select input
  P1B5 input ______/______ Start input

Switch open (Normal Mode)
- All four inputs are separate.

Switch closed (NES Mode)
- Pressing either P1B4 or Select grounds both inputs, triggering both outputs.  NES Emulator ignores P1B4.
- Pressing either P1B5 or Start grounds both inputs, triggering both outputs.  NES Emulator ignores P1B5.


Scott

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #488 on: November 28, 2019, 11:27:43 pm »
Ditch the NES. Play NES games on a couch in front of your TV.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #489 on: November 29, 2019, 08:17:30 am »
Ditch the NES. Play NES games on a couch in front of your TV.

I would agree with that. My first bartop, I put everything on there with USB so I could play NES and stuff. I NEVER play it on there. Just get some NES/SNES controllers and another cheaper PI and hook to the TV.

J_K_M_A_N

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #490 on: November 29, 2019, 02:14:17 pm »
Ditch the NES. Play NES games on a couch in front of your TV.

I would agree with that. My first bartop, I put everything on there with USB so I could play NES and stuff. I NEVER play it on there. Just get some NES/SNES controllers and another cheaper PI and hook to the TV.

J_K_M_A_N

or use a thin client such as https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-T5740E-THIN-CLIENT-PSU-POWER-LEAD-4GBF-2GBR-WES-7-RE-FURBISHED/202831630840?epid=1407994547&hash=item2f39b511f8:g:w04AAOSwZp5d3QSI

add in a display port to hdmi adapter, install lakka, roms, a couple of cheap snes pads and you're good to go,will happily run 8bit/16bit consoles no trouble :)

obviously the thin client i posted above isn't as small as a Pi but there other ones to chose from too :)

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #491 on: December 01, 2019, 11:52:01 am »
You could use a DPST or DPDT switch to switch between "NES Mode" and "Normal Mode".

Wire the two poles like this
  P1B4 input ______/______ Select input
  P1B5 input ______/______ Start input

Switch open (Normal Mode)
- All four inputs are separate.

Switch closed (NES Mode)
- Pressing either P1B4 or Select grounds both inputs, triggering both outputs.  NES Emulator ignores P1B4.
- Pressing either P1B5 or Start grounds both inputs, triggering both outputs.  NES Emulator ignores P1B5.

This is a really good idea but I don't think I want another switch on the cabinet just for a few games.  I was hoping for a quick and dirty software solution.  Which leads me to my next comment...

Ditch the NES. Play NES games on a couch in front of your TV.

I would agree with that. My first bartop, I put everything on there with USB so I could play NES and stuff. I NEVER play it on there. Just get some NES/SNES controllers and another cheaper PI and hook to the TV.

This is probably what I'm going to end up doing.  The cabinet has been playable for about a week and I can already tell that the arcade games will get 90% of the play time on this thing.  The other 10% believe it or not has been Atari 2600.  The other console games like NES, SNES, GBA, etc. just don't seem to work in this format.  The games are playable but something feels off.  I guess they really were meant for a TV and d-pad. 

 :dunno

So with the software side pretty much finished (other than game specific settings) there are only a couple of things left to do:

- Finish the dustwasher.  I still need to figure out how to print a .psd file to its actual size (without actually owning photoshop lol) so I can print the dutwasher art Arroyo made for me, attach it to the iphone screen protector I bought and then to the clear dustwasher (with the effect being the artwork appearing underneath the 1/16" thick dustwasher).

- Wire the ServoStik.  Right now the stick is in 8-way mode and the plan was always to use 2 GPIO pins on the pi for the servo and then adding some text to the .cfg files to check for 4-way or 8-way before launching a game.  However, it's actually not been a problem playing 4-way games for the most part.  I mean, it's not perfect and I can definitely tell the difference but this cabinet is more of a novelty so maybe it's OK that it isn't perfect.  I'm going to give it a shot though.

- Console/game specific splash screens.  I'm not sure if there is a way to do this in Retropie but it would be nice to display an image every time a game is launched showing the controls/buttons used.  I have noticed that without some sort of indicator, it isn't clear which buttons you are supposed to press until you start playing, which again, is probably fine.  It only takes a minute to figure it out but an instruction card might help and give it an added layer of polish. 

- T-molding.  I've been holding off until I'm reasonably sure I won't have to take off the CP - the little overhang from the t-molding will really make it tough to take apart due to how close fit everything is.

Almost there...  :cheers:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 11:53:57 am by javeryh »

JDFan

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #492 on: December 01, 2019, 12:19:45 pm »
- Finish the dustwasher.  I still need to figure out how to print a .psd file to its actual size (without actually owning photoshop lol) so I can print the dutwasher art Arroyo made for me, attach it to the iphone screen protector I bought and then to the clear dustwasher (with the effect being the artwork appearing underneath the 1/16" thick dustwasher).


IF you need the psd file converted to another format ( PDF, PNG, JPG, etc.) upload a copy of it somewhere and send me a link and what format you want it and I'll load it up in Photoshop and save to that format for you - If you know the dust washer size let me know that and I'll check the size also to make sure it is correct.

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javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #493 on: February 04, 2021, 08:16:03 pm »
Oh crap what have I done?



Since I'm waiting on monitor glass to "finish" the cabaret I have decided to dig this up from the dead and get it across the finish line for good.  Lots left to do here.  I took everything apart today and I am replacing the iPAC2 with a crappy zero delay encoder for space reasons and also because Retropie and keyboards don't seem to get along as well as I'd like.  I'm going to wire it up to behave exactly like an Xbox controller or whatever.  I'm also probably going to add some console games because why not - its an abomination with Retropie anyway.

I need to figure out how to wire a ServoStik to the zero delay board.  There is a connector with 5 pins but I don't have a cable.  There is also 4 separate connections and I think I can use this as long as I don't switch the ground wires around.

I can't sit still in the house any more so I'm trying to keep busy....

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #494 on: February 05, 2021, 02:06:25 am »
I need to figure out how to wire a ServoStik to the zero delay board.  There is a connector with 5 pins but I don't have a cable.  There is also 4 separate connections and I think I can use this as long as I don't switch the ground wires around.
There's no polarity to a microswitch so it will work as long as one wire from the 2-pin cable goes on COM and the other on NO.
- After that coin door wiring incident, I'm sure you'll double check that it's not on NC. jk   :lol


Scott

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #495 on: February 05, 2021, 10:53:50 am »
Lookin sharp javery!  I think the left colors work best but instead of the bright blue / teal it could be pushed into a bit of a darker and perhaps less saturated blue.  The outlines I might like better if they were a gray or maybe even black.  Less dominant.  I agree on no laser rings too.  Feels out of place given his stance.  The UFO behind him is emitting a light but that kinda gets lost in the blue.  Might pop that a bit more but still keep the character popping the most   :cheers:

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #496 on: February 05, 2021, 03:26:35 pm »
There's no polarity to a microswitch so it will work as long as one wire from the 2-pin cable goes on COM and the other on NO.
- After that coin door wiring incident, I'm sure you'll double check that it's not on NC. jk   :lol

LOL  ;D

That's what I thought.  There's a spot on the zero delay encoder for a "2-pin joystick interface" which is just four 2-pin terminals for U/D/L/R I assume.  I'm just going to use that.

Lookin sharp javery!  I think the left colors work best but instead of the bright blue / teal it could be pushed into a bit of a darker and perhaps less saturated blue.  The outlines I might like better if they were a gray or maybe even black.  Less dominant.  I agree on no laser rings too.  Feels out of place given his stance.  The UFO behind him is emitting a light but that kinda gets lost in the blue.  Might pop that a bit more but still keep the character popping the most   :cheers:

Thanks - the art has been finished for a while now and has been ordered and applied to the cabinet - no changing it now!   :cheers:

I'm starting to remember why I put this one on the back burner... I cannot for the life of me figure out how to secure the CP short of drilling holes through the top and literally screwing it down, which I absolutely do not want to do.  I used rare earth magnets and they hold it in place pretty good but a good pull down on the joystick and the entire panel lifts up.  This has happened every single time someone other than me has played it.

I'm open to suggestions on how to keep it from moving.  The issue is that there is virtually no real estate on the underside of the CP to add any type of fastener or anything.  Space is so tight.  I don't even have room for the ServoStik PCB, which I'm relocating to behind the screen.  Hopefully this will give you a better idea of what I mean:



I'm really stuck.  Any ideas?

 :cheers:

EDIT: What about permanently gluing the CP in place and cutting a large rectangle out of the bottom panel?  This would (pretty much) provide access to the buttons and joystick and solve the movement issue.  Cutting a perfect rectangle will be extremely difficult though (any ideas how to do this?).  Also, I'd still need to cover it to keep dust out or whatever... I guess a piece of 1/16" plexi would do the trick.  This seems irreversible though so I'd still like to hear other options.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 04:24:00 pm by javeryh »

markc74

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #497 on: February 05, 2021, 04:58:41 pm »
Would this work?

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #498 on: February 05, 2021, 05:33:12 pm »
Would this work?
You know... that might be crazy enough to work.  The only issue I can see is that I literally only have about 1” of space for that wedge right next to the yellow plastic where I taped that metal catch.



But I don’t need it to be that deep - it just needs to catch the screw, which would have to be almost exactly the right length.

Thanks for the idea - hadn’t considered it at all.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #499 on: February 05, 2021, 10:36:52 pm »
Just went through the whole Project and it is very nicely done.
The placement of it all is so tight and well thought. I also very much appreciate the artworks, from start to the near end it is all top notch!

Beautiful work Javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #500 on: February 05, 2021, 11:17:17 pm »
Lol sorry about the timing on the art idea.  Every once in a while my phone makes me think I'm on the last page when I'm really not.   :banghead:

As far as the cp lock idea, I will riff off the wedge drawing concept.  Instead of a small wedge, glue a long pillar of maybe 1.5" wood down from the bottom of the cp to the base.  This way the insert goes into the bottom of the pillar, which is right next to the base.  That way there's only a very short distance from the outside to the insert for easy threading.

You could also inset the hole size on the bottom so it sits flat instead of on bolt heads.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 04:50:00 pm by vertexguy »

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #501 on: February 06, 2021, 05:47:49 am »
I'm really stuck.  Any ideas?

Velcro.
                  

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #502 on: February 06, 2021, 09:35:57 am »
Two tidy hex bolts 4mm through the sides and into some threaded inserts in the side rails..
I cant see any other option to hold it down properly.....
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:38:40 am by Richie_jones »

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #503 on: February 06, 2021, 10:09:34 am »
Just went through the whole Project and it is very nicely done.
The placement of it all is so tight and well thought. I also very much appreciate the artworks, from start to the near end it is all top notch!

Beautiful work Javeryh

Thanks.  I thought out like 90% of it and as you can see the last 10% is what is killing me!  I really like the form factor - it's big enough to comfortably play but small enough that it's not taking up a ton of space.  Although, nothing beats a full-sized stand up, unfortunately.  I wish I had more room in my house...

Lol sorry about the timing on the art.  Every once in a while my phone makes me think I'm on the last page when I'm really not.   :banghead:

As far as the cp lock idea, I will riff off the wedge drawing concept.  Instead of a small wedge, glue a long pillar of maybe 1.5" wood down from the bottom of the cp to the base.  This way the insert goes into the bottom of the pillar, which is right next to the base.  That way there's only a very short distance from the outside to the insert for easy threading.

You could also inset the hole size on the bottom so it sits flat instead of on bolt heads.

Now I think we are getting somewhere... this is another good idea.  I like the idea of routing out the bottom a bit so the bolt head sits flush.  I'm getting a little bit more comfortable that I'll be able to work something out based on some sort of a post/screw/whatever connecting the top of the CP to the bottom panel of the cabinet.  Just need to figure out how to make it easy.

I'm really stuck.  Any ideas?

Velcro.

Yes - this would work if I had any forethought whatsoever but the thickness of the velcro (1/16") will raise the CP up by that amount and cause issues like the front of the CP no longe being flush with the monitor glass and the bottom panel sitting lower than the front edge of the CP, etc.  I could maybe shave off 1/16" from the rail to account for the velcro but that seems difficult since the rails are glued in place...

Two tidy hex bolts 4mm through the sides and into some threaded inserts in the side rails..
I cant see any other option to hold it down properly.....

yeah... this is the last resort if I can't get something working in the next week or so.  I'm sick of all these unfinished projects so I need to figure this out and move on.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #504 on: February 06, 2021, 12:38:54 pm »
OK... I think I've got something but not sure if it will hold or if I can get the right amount of tension.
  • I screwed a small eyelet to the underside of the CP near the top.
  • I drilled a hole in the bottom of the cabinet right below the eyelet.
  • Using a bobby pin and a hair tie, I threaded the eyelet and then pulled the hair tie through the hole on the bottom.
  • I just spray painted a hook you use to hang a painting and I'm going to glue it to the bottom of the cabinet (hopefully low enough so it doesn't hit anything) and then stretch the hair tie over it to provide enough tension to keep the CP in place.
The hair tie turned out to be way too long when stretched so I'm bending it under the cabinet and putting the hook towards the back of the cabinet (rather than the hole) to make up for the length.  A rubber band will snap under the tension.  I could maybe cut the hair tie to the right length but then I'd have to figure out how to fasten it to the eyelet short of tying a knot that is bound to come undone.

Is this mental?  I can't tell.  I've been thinking about it too long.

EDIT:  OK, I think this could work... but not the hook underneath.  Even with super glue, the tension is too much.  But I have another idea with some picture frame/canvas z-clips.  I can hold this down with a screw instead of the glue so it shouldn't move.  I can put a ton of force on the eyelet, which is screwed in so I am confident that the z-clip will hold.  I just sprayed it black so I'm waiting for it to dry...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 03:50:39 pm by javeryh »

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #505 on: February 06, 2021, 04:29:16 pm »
Hard to picture everything you're describing.  Got a pic or two you can share?

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #506 on: February 06, 2021, 05:05:29 pm »
Hard to picture everything you're describing.  Got a pic or two you can share?
Ok here goes...

Here’s the eyelet on the underside of the CP:


And here is the hole I drilled on the bottom of the cabinet:



And here is the eyelet with the hair tie:



When attaching the CP I can thread the hair tie through the hole so it comes out of the bottom (the hole is in the right in the next pic).  Then I pull really hard and loop it around the metal bracket on the left. 



This creates quite a bit of tension on the hair tie keeping the CP in place.

Does that make sense?  I’m wiring now or I would just show the end result.

EDIT:  OK here it is...

« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 06:04:44 pm by javeryh »

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #507 on: February 06, 2021, 09:58:43 pm »
Nice.  Thanks for the details. 8)  That's an interesting solution and I'm surprised the hair tie is strong enough.  Be curious when you get it back together if the CP moves any with rough joystick play.


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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #508 on: February 07, 2021, 01:24:45 am »
Yet its still not fixed properly with a hair tie!!

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk


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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #509 on: February 07, 2021, 01:56:42 am »
Javery, I was confused by this problem until now as I didn’t realize your bottom panel was glued in place (at least I assume it is).  Why not drill through your two 3/4” braces from the top and through the bottom of your panel.  From the bottom either simply get a long screw to screw in the CP from its underside, or better yet use said screw to mark the location on the CP underside and then install a threaded insert in the CP underside and machine screw from the bottom into the threaded insert.  Make sense?

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #510 on: February 07, 2021, 08:50:55 am »
Nice.  Thanks for the details. 8)  That's an interesting solution and I'm surprised the hair tie is strong enough.  Be curious when you get it back together if the CP moves any with rough joystick play.

It looks janky but it actually seems solid now.  I haven’t really pulled on it yet because I’m still messing with the wiring but I think it will work.

Yet its still not fixed properly with a hair tie!!

It’s more like a mini bungee cord than a hair tie.  It’s not coming apart and it can withstand quite a bit of tension - and I pulled that sucker as tight as I could.  As long as the CP stays in place I’ll be happy.  No one can see the hair tie or will ever know it is there unless they need to open it up.  I’m going to print out an instruction card for the inside of the back door that explains how it works in case I’m not around and Jack wants to fix something.

Javery, I was confused by this problem until now as I didn’t realize your bottom panel was glued in place (at least I assume it is).  Why not drill through your two 3/4” braces from the top and through the bottom of your panel.  From the bottom either simply get a long screw to screw in the CP from its underside, or better yet use said screw to mark the location on the CP underside and then install a threaded insert in the CP underside and machine screw from the bottom into the threaded insert.  Make sense?

This does make sense (I think).  I’d have to drill through 2 rails on each side though - the one the CP rests on and the one below it that is holding the bottom panel in place.  They are 1/2” not 3/4” so not a lot of room for error.  There’s also the issue of the CP sitting at an 11 degree angle.  I think this is what markc74 was getting at with his drawing as well, which is what made me think of my current solution. 

I do not think I have the ability to drill two holes that precise on the assembled cabinet for a screw and a threaded insert, although that would be the best solution.  Getting a screw the correct length might also be tough to find.  I’m hoping I have it sorted out - I’ll know more today if I can get it up and running and let the kids play on it for a bit.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #511 on: February 07, 2021, 02:09:13 pm »
I can't tell.  It's working for me but if I pull REALLY hard I can still pop the CP off.  I don't see how it could come off during "normal" play but I'm also not a savage when I'm using my cabinets like other people are.  I really want to put the t-molding on, which could kind of make the CP not removable without considerable effort (the 1/32" overhang on the t-molding would be very tough to squeeze by.  I guess I'll sit on it for a few days before making any decisions. 

If it wasn't snowing every day I could get out to the chop saw and make a few 11 degree wedges and really see how hard it would be to implement markc74's idea.  Another thought was to just cover the rails with double sided tape.  That much surface area should ensure the CP wouldn't move - it would just be a huge pain to get off if I had to.

Anyway, the zero-delay encoder works but I have no idea how to properly set up controls.  I have the 6 buttons set to:

Y X L
B A R

And the front 4 buttons mapped to:

L2 --- Select-Start --- R2

The "Hot Key" is Select.  The way to exit games is Select+Start (not obvious). Ideally I''d like it to be L2 (hold down for 1500 milliseconds) but I'm not sure how to reconfigure things.  I guess I have a lot of reading ahead of me.

Also, on a per emulator or even per game basis I'd like the controls to be different.  I was just playing Super Punch-Out!! and Y is left punch and B is right punch, which is dumb - it should be B for left punch, A for right punch and R for the super punch (with the top row of buttons not being used).  I assume once I learn how to change things it will just be time consuming to get all the games set up, which I can live with.

 :cheers:

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #512 on: February 07, 2021, 05:45:56 pm »
OK.... here's a more detailed explanation of what I think will solve this issue for you (hopefully).  I don't have all your exact measurements but hopefully the concept is sound enough that you can adapt as needed.



A)  This is that small area where you put the tape above your button.  It looks like maybe 1/2 inch tall by an inch or more wide.  I would route this area by 2 or 3/16ths and glue the wood pillar to that.  This way you're getting more strength than just a butt joint since you'll have some side area to glue to, making it more of a rabbet joint.

B)   This is the pillar.  Conceptually it could be made of anything strong.  The idea is you want it stiff and straight though so it's always perfectly aligned.  I thought about metal for this which could be screwed in at the top and bottom, or perhaps super glued.  I like this better than the wedge at the top and a long bolt because it eliminates the problem of exact bolt length and awkwardly trying to get a really long bolt lined up from the bottom.

c) This is a 1.5x1.5x.75 block of wood (pine).  I'm using these everywhere in my build with threaded inserts.  Gives you plenty of room to accurately drill a center hole for the insert.  The bolt length isn't critical because excess can just stick up beyond the threaded insert a bit.  This is glued to the pillar, again ideally with more of a rabbet joint.

D) I couldn't tell how the front was anchored down, if at all, so this is an addition to add a single support for the front and an additional force to help the top from popping off.  Again I would inset it with a router 3/16 to make a rabbet joint for extra strength.

E) Under your cab, you inset 2 holes that are big enough for the bolt and a washer.  Keeps the bottom of the cab flush.

F) I think this might be an even better option if possible.  I moved the concept to the sides and simply cut out rectangle areas from your side braces to make room.  Then you have anchors on both sides that should keep it nice and snug.
 
You might also be able to make a slide in catch on the lower front to hold that part down instead of another threaded insert.  Anyway... hope this helps get this project wrapped up for you.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 05:48:42 pm by vertexguy »

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #513 on: February 08, 2021, 09:03:53 am »
WOW.  Thanks for the write up and the pics.  I hadn't even considered the offset block on the bottom to thread through (making the length of the screw not matter).  That's a great idea.  The scale is a bit smaller though - the entire interior space is only ~2.25" tall (at the tallest spot in the front of the CP).  I'll have to check the sides and see if it would work there (2 posts would be stronger than 1).  I'm pretty sure the rails are in the way but maybe it's not a huge deal to remove some material there.

I will not have room in the front ("D") for anything.  It's so tight inside.  Especially with all 28 wires coming from under there (14 connections x2).  There should be enough room to maneuver around a single post though.  Now... how do I measure for it?  I'm reasonably sure the CP is at an 11 degree angle.  I measured it like 10 times with a protractor and it's not exact but it's the best I could do.  The issue will be cutting it the exact length so the CP sits exactly flush on the rails and the bottom of the post sits exactly on the base of the cabinet.

I would also have to take it apart again (I wired it up and it's working) but I suppose that's not the biggest deal in the world.

 :cheers:

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #514 on: February 08, 2021, 11:27:15 am »
Here's what I was hoping to find.



https://www.newark.com/keystone/634/mounting-bracket/dp/62W5720?gclid=Cj0KCQiA34OBBhCcARIsAG32uvPJ8rkIedJon5Lbr8pmX3NXJmX5ov2YWhg1R2lBi2NFrVY4AqjV_7EaAunDEALw_wcB&mckv=smmmS7SRR_dc|pcrid|495146202943|plid||kword||match||slid||product|62W5720|pgrid|108905519010|ptaid|aud-900629626920:pla-938983769740|&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-Shopping-NewStructure-Gen-Fasteners-Mechanical#

They do make threaded L brackets.  This is probably as small as you can get and still strong.  It looked like you had a fair amount of space in between the buttons on the front so that's where I was thinking you could attach a connection with an insert.  Hopefully there's enough space for something like this?    If it's a no go for bolts maybe there's enough room to have an L sticking out from the front of the CP and it can slide under a metal strip on the base to just provide upward pull protection?  With something like this your pillar could be metal to keep it small too.  You would just use something like a wing nut to attach it to the L brackets on either end.  The trick there is cutting your metal to the correct length and punching holes where needed.

As far as the angle of the CP, you could pick up an angle finder from harbor freight for under 5 bucks.  Alternatively, just use a factory 1 by board as your straight edge.  Put it flush against the bottom angle of the CP and let it stick out a ways.  Ideally double stick tape it for convenience.  Now you just need a reliable right angle to go up from the ground to that point to draw your straight line on that board and you have your exact angle.  You could even cut that board and use it for your top angle connection point or make a template from it to cut whatever you end up using.

I would make your pillar a little long at first...by 1/16th or so.  Then hand sand it down until it's a perfect fit.  Even that doesn't have to be absolutely precise because your bolt will pull it down the rest of the way.  It will just be stronger if it's flush.


« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 11:33:09 am by vertexguy »

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #515 on: February 08, 2021, 12:56:23 pm »
You are overcomplicating the crap out of this and creating a space shuttle kit.

This can be done with a couple of machine screws and a threaded insert.
or

Look at this..
https://www.amazon.com/Tegg-Stainless-Security-Hardware-Tensionlock/dp/B07LBQ2HGG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=suitcase+latch&qid=1612806570&sr=8-3
Look at real machines that have been around for 40 years.. Vast majority use bigger versions of this.

I've had the opportunity to work many professionals in a lot of different fields over the years ..  they all have one common thread .. simplify..simplify simplify
No one builds that much stuff to hold down 18x8" of material..

Come back from the edge.. 
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #516 on: February 08, 2021, 01:06:05 pm »
You are overcomplicating the crap out of this and creating a space shuttle kit.

This can be done with a couple of machine screws and a threaded insert.
or

Look at this..
https://www.amazon.com/Tegg-Stainless-Security-Hardware-Tensionlock/dp/B07LBQ2HGG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=suitcase+latch&qid=1612806570&sr=8-3
Look at real machines that have been around for 40 years.. Vast majority use bigger versions of this.

I've had the opportunity to work many professionals in a lot of different fields over the years ..  they all have one common thread .. simplify..simplify simplify
No one builds that much stuff to hold down 18x8" of material..

Come back from the edge..

 ;D  I agree I'm in way too deep. 

But that clip is way too big to fit inside of the cabinet under the control panel.  I didn't leave enough room inside for anything except the rare earth magnets countersunk in the rails, which turned out to not be strong enough.  I love simple - if there is a simple way to do this I'm all for it.  The threaded insert is probably the best way but I only have an area about 1-1/2"x 5/8" under the CP to attach anything to ... on an 11 degree angle (and the CP is only 1/2" thick).

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #517 on: February 08, 2021, 01:16:37 pm »
on the cab sides - you have a long cleats with the magnet (that didn't work)

Pop those off the inside and glue / screw to the underside of the CP. You just made your CP thicker.  Which is the real problem that you have.
The CP is thin so you can't connect anything to it..

Now you have 2 choices
1. Secure them through the sides of the cab (simple)  - but I think you have side art.. so this is out..
or
2. Add a new set of side cleats below them on the cabinet sides like the ones you just popped off.
    Then screw through the new side cleats into the new bottom (of the CP) cleats.

Make sense?

Simple  :)


« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 04:44:19 pm by bperkins01 »
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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #518 on: February 08, 2021, 04:37:08 pm »
I'm finishing up a couple bartops right now and relearning the controls setup in RetroPie.  The solutions are usually simple it just takes me time to find the right Youtube video or website.  If you are in a game run by a RetroArch core then hit your hotkey + x and it should bring up a configuration menu.  Just make sure to change the configuration option save on exit to On.  Then you can save control settings either per core or per game.  Mame was fairly standard if you have a keyboard handy just hit Tab and configure.  Then I'd recommend setting the game exit to your select + start combo then hit it again and use ESC as a second option for whenever the keyboard is hooked up.  I'm find some controls really weird like the Sega MegaDrive core I felt like my button 1 should shoot and button 2 should jump but they were acting reversed.  Then I get it fixed but then the button 1 no longer works to go through the screens to start the game.  I don't know what the original controls were for some of these games so maybe people wanted their primary finger hitting jump but I like it to be shoot.  Guess I could look it up.  But yeah setting up controls on all the different emulators can be a chore.

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Re: javeryh's Small-ish Bartop ["Jack Attack!"]
« Reply #519 on: February 08, 2021, 05:54:10 pm »
From what I gather you don't want bolts showing anywhere if possible (bottom being ok because it's never seen), and ideally don't want to have to dissect a whole lot with the existing cab?

Bperkins second option seems similar to what I had proposed in point F.  Here's a "simplified" approach that just uses fewer wood pieces, but overall takes up more available space.  It would be stronger over all.



I'm going to assume you will need to add more thickness to where you want to add inserts as a 1/2" seems like it's a mighty small space to have much grab strength.  An 8-32 insert leaves just under 1/8th on each side of it if you get it dead center on your 1/2 stock.  It may be strong enough though?  Perhaps if you super glue it in as well?  Otherwise if you're more comfortable with something a little thicker here I just doubled the thickness (so 14/16 actual) on the bottom where you can add inserts.  That would give you more of a margin of error and greater side strength for the insert.

Not sure if just 2 inserts in the back will be enough to prevent the front from popping up slightly or not.  If not, my idea was to just glue on a small 1/8th thick piece of metal on the inside front that meets flush with the inside base of the cab.  Then put an elevated strip of metal over it.  Basically making a tiny door latch that doesn't move.  Then the front would slide off straight instead of lifting to get around the latch.

Here's a variation idea....



This concept makes a door at the base of the cab to access things.  You could use inserts for that too but I went with a key insert latch and a lip on the other end in this example.  The idea is that once the bottom is open, you have access to the 4 inserts up top holding the CP on.  They should ideally be hex as you will probably not have enough of a straight shot to use a screw driver on them.  The downside I see to this is that it again relies on precision holes in 1/2" wood.

Only other thought would be if there's a possibility to access and extend something from the back of the cabinet, below the screen.

Another consideration though is, how often will anyone really need to access this area?  Threaded inserts may not be needed and regular screws could be sufficient, which makes working with the 1/2 slightly easier...just make sure you're cutting the wood to not be screwing into end grains.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 06:01:15 pm by vertexguy »