Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: Rotary controller  (Read 4356 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elevator-Action

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
  • Last login:July 25, 2020, 06:56:38 am
  • The road to hell is paved with good intentions!
Rotary controller
« on: July 23, 2020, 10:39:42 pm »
I'm pretty new to MAME and have two mayflash f300 elite sticks, but I want to play games like "Front Line", "Wild West", and of course "Ikari Warriors". What do you recommend for a controller?
I am for the stars, but sometimes I hit London
WVB

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9394
  • Last login:Today at 08:28:19 pm
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2020, 03:17:16 am »
I want to play games like "Front Line", "Wild West", and of course "Ikari Warriors". What do you recommend for a controller?
You're talking about two very different controllers for those games.

The wiki's Joystick Database has pictures of the Taito Aim-n-Fire and a similar controller used on some Nintendo games.

Taito:
 

Nintendo (?):


There are six games that used this type of controller:
- Front Line
- The Tin Star
- Wild Western
- Sheriff (Nintendo)
- Bandido (Exidy -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)
- Western Gun Part II (Taito -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)

The controller acts like a joystick that is always pressed in the direction that the knob points.
- Twist to aim.
- Press to fire.

The originals are very expensive, but there's a guy selling several repro versions of this control on e-bay.
- Some are not original size and they're not cheap, but they might be an option.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FRONT-LINE-ARCADE-ROTARY-SWITCH-IN-MINIATURE/164148979716



Another option is to play these games on a Robotron-style dual-stick setup.
- Left stick for movement.
- Right stick for aim and map all four directions to fire in MAME.

Any keyboard or gamepad encoder will work for this setup.

List of dual-stick games: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Games_with_Dual_Joysticks
--------------
Ikari Warriors uses a mechanical rotary joystick -- an 8-way stick with a 12-position rotary switch on the bottom.

LS-30:


Happ mechanical rotary stick: (Part # 50-5618-00)


There are about two dozen games that use this type of controller.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Mechanical_Rotary_Joystick_Games_.28LS-30.2C_Happ_Mechanical_Rotary_Sticks.29
*** Scroll down on that page for important MAME settings for these games. ***

For this type of stick, you'll need either a rotary encoder or Ultimarc has a diagram showing how to use diodes to convert the rotary switch connections into a quadrature waveform readable by an optical (mouse) encoder.


Scott

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9226
  • Last login:March 25, 2024, 08:10:48 pm
  • ...
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2020, 06:24:27 am »
I prefer to map Axis Dec (turn left) to a button I hit with my thumb and Axis Inc (turn right) to a button I hit with my ring finger.  Index finger is fire and middle finger is grenade.

You must set the analog options correctly for button presses to result in the character turning one notch per press.
Those setting are in the wiki or at the bottom of the first post here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=149734.msg1563378.msg#1563378

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19399
  • Last login:Today at 05:29:33 pm
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2020, 03:47:31 pm »
This is my catch phrase these days, but I'm working on it guys... I just can't do anything until I have the house in order and I'm mostly moved in.  PL1 has done some excellent 3d models of both the snk and dataeast rotary stick tops and  there are also printable kits to convert standard joysticks to rotary sticks.... the rotary switch/rotary encoder and the software are the key components for making a repeatable kit and I want to tackle that part... making a system of hardware/software that can be bought inexpensively and built easily.  Anyway it's on the list... hopefully I get to it before I die.   :cheers:

Ginsonic

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:October 09, 2023, 12:56:04 pm
  • Arcade enthusiast !
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2020, 10:40:25 am »
Just in case, if you own a 3D printer and you did not see this  ;)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153219.0.html

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9394
  • Last login:Today at 08:28:19 pm
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2020, 11:24:12 am »
Just in case, if you own a 3D printer and you did not see this  ;)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153219.0.html
Maybe I missed them, but did you ever post those 3d print files?

Closest thing I've found is this picture from your thread.   :dunno




Scott

Ginsonic

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:October 09, 2023, 12:56:04 pm
  • Arcade enthusiast !
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2020, 07:20:56 am »
Maybe I missed them, but did you ever post those 3d print files?

Closest thing I've found is this picture from your thread.   :dunno




Scott

No, I did not post them, since nobody seemed to be really interested, but I will catch it up soon  ;)

Ginsonic

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:October 09, 2023, 12:56:04 pm
  • Arcade enthusiast !
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 07:45:19 am »
And here they are in format "step", you should be able to open the file in the usual suspects like Fusion360.
Have fun  :cheers:

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9394
  • Last login:Today at 08:28:19 pm
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 10:13:37 am »
And here they are in format "step", you should be able to open the file in the usual suspects like Fusion360.
Have fun  :cheers:
Thanks for sharing.   :cheers:

You may see more interest now that Suzo-Happ appears to have stopped production on both mechanical and optical rotary sticks.   :(
Mechanical: https://na.suzohapp.com/products/joysticks/50-5618-00
Quote
Item number 50-5618-00 is not available for sale.

Optical: https://na.suzohapp.com/products/joysticks/50-5619-00
Quote
Item number 50-5619-00 is not available for sale.

Divemaster dropped them off his page here, too.

AFAIK that just leaves Ultimarc's Ikari 12-way Rotary Upgrade for Servostik, J-Stik or one of the several 3d printed switch-holder/rotary-mod projects posted around here.


Scott

pumaconcolor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
  • Last login:October 15, 2020, 07:06:27 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 11:22:35 am »
That nice fellow who made the Taito-style controller has a newer one that can be mounted in a button hole:


As for the Ikari-style controller, I know that Glen Planamento (Glen's Retro Show) has mentioned that kind of stick as something he wants to make a version of in the future.

DarthMarino

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
  • Last login:Today at 06:51:56 am
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2023, 06:57:08 pm »

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9226
  • Last login:March 25, 2024, 08:10:48 pm
  • ...
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2023, 08:28:48 pm »
GRS/Thundersticks is realeasing their solution in November:

https://thunderstickstudio.com/products/grs-super-joystick?fbclid=IwAR12UZuYZjOh_sXaOY7_L4ZTFfYrR_e48Y2Nb0YVR-AIOx4-l5G6DU2cLEA

I was ready to trash it for not having detents since it appears to spin freely in the video, but...
"Joystick supports three switchable rotational detents, which can be set to 8, 12, or 16 detents per rotation to suit different gameplay requirements."

Somebody actually did their homework.  :applaud:

I made a rotating joystick with an optical encoder one time.  Not having detents sucked.  It doesn't even have to be the correct number as long as 1 detent=1 position change.
I later started a project with ALPS rotary switches that had a good feel, but they ended up being too long to fit in my cab.

EvilNuff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 430
  • Last login:February 24, 2024, 04:41:13 pm
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2023, 12:32:28 pm »
It really looks like he has a pretty decent solution, love that the detents are changable.

DarthMarino

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
  • Last login:Today at 06:51:56 am
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2023, 07:43:18 am »
I got the GRS Super Joystick last week and have enjoyed it for the most part. My only complaint is that I wish it didn't engage the next position so quickly. I'd prefer a bit of a deadzone until you actually reach the next click. They said they are aware of this but may be hard to fix (via a software update) so we'll see. Not a big deal by any means and I've had good time playing through a bunch of the games. Midnight Resistance comes highly recommended.

Here is a video of the games in action. I had everything set to 8 positions for the video with a solid green light. That's keyboard mode. Some games, like Cal 50 or Time Soldiers, are likely better with more positions.


I also made this video showing you an alternate way to map the controls for Front Line, Sheriff, The Tin Star and Wild Western. They give you this little circuit board to attach to the base of the joystick to help map but my method does not require that. I have it inside the box and don't want to open it up every time.

EvilNuff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 430
  • Last login:February 24, 2024, 04:41:13 pm
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2023, 05:38:34 pm »
I got my GRS as well and definitely recommend it.  It is the closest thing I have found to my old ls30s.  Absolutely pleased here.

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1470
  • Last login:March 04, 2024, 03:20:27 am
  • retro maniac
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2023, 07:41:18 am »
Sadly since I'm inside EU union I have to wait a bit before I get hands on it (preordered international version) but from many videos it seems to be very good choise. After UltraStik 360 Rotary Joystick Upgrade fiasco (lack of "click" and being to sensitive, having bad knob etc.) I'm hoping this will be the perfect choice to those rotary games.

BTW. One of my favourite games uses optical rotary joystick - Caliber 50. For this one spinner with push/pull option also from thunderstickstudio solve problem for me. Played not as intended but playable after all with correct set up.

Ther is also Ikari 12-way Rotary Upgrade for Servostik, J-Stik from Ultimarc but again after fiasco with previous rotary option I didn't really interested. It uses as a base very bad in my opinion base - jstick. Also whole construction is very long (especially at the bottom) and again does not have proper knob for such games.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2023, 07:47:58 am by haynor666 »

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1470
  • Last login:March 04, 2024, 03:20:27 am
  • retro maniac
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2024, 04:11:35 am »
Yesterday I've received finally my joystick.

I don't remember original SNK rotary to well (I used it very long time ago) but think it's a bit softer than original. Actually it's better in my opinion. Rotating is also softer and can set in 8/12/16 or even set in free mouse mode which again can suites personal preferences. This can also make rotary games harder or easier depending what set up You use.

Probably rotary knob is built the same way as spinner from Thundersticks. It has even push/pull option just like spinner.

So far I tested 8/1/16 modes in some SNK games. Not all games I could set up perfectly (some spins are not registered in SAR service mode for example) but after one evening of play at least Ikari Warriors works like expected (12 signals in service mode and all behaves correctly).

I did not tested free mode in any games but since I have I have only one game that interest me (it's Caliber 50) I'm sure it will work fine. Games like Forgotten Worlds I prefer to use with push/pull spinner (so exactly as in original cab).

Joystick indeed can be set for Taito Aim'n'fire games. In this mode rotary knob acts as hat mode. It could hard to set up this in MAME so there additionial mini PCB with direction buttons so You know that direction to press exactly. I didn't test this feature yesterday.

EDIT.

SAR, Ikari III, Ikari Warriors seems to be using 12 way joysticks and set up perfectly.

I still don't know how to set up TNK III
« Last Edit: January 23, 2024, 04:38:19 pm by haynor666 »

rdagger

Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2024, 01:41:42 am »
I'm a big fan of the original LS-30's.  I recently modified my rotary interface to afford 2 modes.  In the original mode the interface just fires clockwise and counterclockwise pulses when the rotary joystick is rotated.  This works well with games like Ikari Warriors.  In the new mode the interface will cycle through the 8 directions depending on which direction the knob is turned.  This works great for games like Sheriff.

Here's a pic of the working prototype.

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1470
  • Last login:March 04, 2024, 03:20:27 am
  • retro maniac
Re: Rotary controller
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2024, 12:46:28 pm »
Very interesting project but You know It's hard to find LS-30 these days especially new not too mention prices.

GRS is new, it can work for classic SNK games and taito aim'n'fire and even it's suitable for Disc of Tron or Zwackery (free mode works nice) so ended my search for now :)