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Author Topic: CPU temps  (Read 903 times)

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BadMouth

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CPU temps
« on: May 25, 2018, 11:29:30 am »
I'm curious as to what the people more knowledgeable than me consider an acceptable sustained CPU temp.
I've googled, but have come across answers all over the place.

I built a new PC last weekend around a Ryzen 2700x.
The main excuse for replacing my old PC was to speed up ripping and converting of media.
Handbrake is running all 8 cores full bore (98-100% utilization) for 40 or 50 minutes at a time when converting bluray mkv rips to mp4.

I had it overclocked to 4Ghz, but the temps would hover around 78 celsius, touching 80 occasionally.
That scared me so I took it back down to the stock 3.7Ghz, but I'm still hovering around 72-74.
With games or other tasks, it rarely gets above 55 and idles below 40.

I'm using the stock cooler, but it supposed to be pretty decent for a stock cooler.
I ordered another case fan to mount above the processor, but I doubt it will make a huge difference.

Reading up on the matter, AMD built in an offset of 10 to make fans kick on sooner/trick people into running it at lower temps, so it's really only 64 (70 when overclocked).
Is this an acceptable temp to be running 50 minutes at a time, 3 or 4 times a day?
I'd kind of like to crank it back up to 4Ghz, but want it to last 7 or 8 years.

Malenko

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 11:49:29 am »
if you want it to last, don't overclock it.  70 is fine , 80 is kind of the max you want to run it.   I don't think you're going to save much time with a 300MHz difference. Ive always used Intel chips over AMD, so Im basing it on those.

Get a high efficiency water cooling rig to keep them low and improve longevity
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shponglefan

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 11:54:59 am »
Rated temps for processors (CPU/GPU) tend to vary by manufacturer and even individual processors. Probably why you're seeing different answers.

That said, I try to keep my temps below 70 degrees as a matter of course. Part of the reason is that modern CPUs will typically start throttling performance to avoid damage from too-high temps. So even if you push your CPU via overclocking, it could potentially be scaling back performance if it gets too hot. Which defeats the purpose of OCing in the first place.

Personally, I'd go with a replacement cooler (I like Noctua brand coolers) over a stock cooler and good thermal paste. That should keep temps under control.

JDFan

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2018, 12:18:28 pm »
SPec for that CPU is :
Quote
Max Temps
85C

So 80 is getting up there but is still within spec for the Chip.

BadMouth

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 11:37:07 am »
Thanks for the responses.  It's not going over 72 since going back to the standard clock and adding the extra fan.  (62 if you take into account the offset AMD built in)
The air coming out of the case doesn't even feel warm, so I'm pretty sure that's as good as it gets with the stock cooler and current ambient temperature.
This is just while handbrake is maxing out all the cores.
For other tasks, it barely breaks a sweat even with the PWM fans running at 10-20% speed.

My plan is to rip 6-10 blu rays to mkv at a time, then make a handbrake queue to convert all of them to mp4 overnight while I sleep.
....so this thing is going to be at sustained temps for quite long periods. 

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 07:39:01 am »
How are you guys reading the cpu temp?

05SRT4

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 08:31:43 am »
I agree with the 70-80(Max).

How are you guys reading the cpu temp?

I use MSI Afterburner which has the temps but also has all the options for over-clocking.

The 2 most common tools for hardware (temp/volt) monitoring are:

CPUID - https://www.cpuid.com/

And

Open Hardware Monitor - http://openhardwaremonitor.org/

BadMouth

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 10:23:13 am »
I'm using the Asus AI software that came with the motherboard.

Ambient temps have gone up 10 degrees and my cpu temps have gone up a few degrees as a result.  :(
I've run this thing full bore overnight for the last two nights converting mkv blu ray rips to mp4.
I don't think I've ever asked this much of a processor before.

05SRT4

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 10:32:37 am »
What was your old build?

For the price of the Ryzen couldn't you of gotten a i7-8700k?

I dont know much about how they compare was just looking at some quick stats online.

BadMouth

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 12:15:15 pm »
What was your old build?

For the price of the Ryzen couldn't you of gotten a i7-8700k?

I dont know much about how they compare was just looking at some quick stats online.

My old Pc was an Athlon X3 3.4Ghz from 8 or 9 years ago.  I'm not an AMD fanboy, but that one also happened to be AMD.

The Ryzen 2700x was $30 cheaper and included a decent cooler.
...so $60 cheaper overall for similar performance. 

Still using my old case, old power supply (which had been upgraded to a 750w somewhere along the way), and auxillary hard drives.
I had put a 1TB samsung evo ssd in my laptop a year or two ago, but hardly ever use the laptop anymore so put the old drive back in the laptop and used the SSD for this build.
I also had a 3TB WD red drive that I had purchased to put in my Tivo, but removed because unlike the original 500GB drive I could hear it running at night.

That was the original plan anyway.  The cost has since been driven up by ordering random little parts like PCM fans, USB 3 port bays, a new card reader with USB 3 ports, etc.
The new mobo didn't have a PCI slot, so my old xonar sound card wouldn't work in it.  The onboard sound was terrible, so I bought another Xonar card with PCIe interface.

I'm using a Geforce 750ti that my nephew gave to me when he upgraded, but it doesn't have displayport and now I want a bigger monitor with higher resolution for multitasking.
The 750ti in the arcade cab has a displayport, but I swapped them and the longer one without the displayport hits the coin coor when I close up the cab.   :angry:
...so the 1060 is being delivered today.   :D  :'(

I'm very happy with the processor.  The old PC took 3 or 4 hours to rip and convert one DVD, although I was doing it as one process in handbrake. 
It probably would have only done one blu-ray a day.
This one has done 55 in two or three days.

I might end up with buyers remorse on the video card since I don't play demanding PC games very often.



05SRT4

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 12:42:17 pm »
I might end up with buyers remorse on the video card since I don't play demanding PC games very often.

Get yourself a VR headset, you got the rig for it now, Project Cars in VR is crazy.

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 12:51:25 pm »
just a quick note here.... AMD CPU's read different than intel CPU's.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html

programs like speccy CPUID and HWmonitor whatnot read the die temp... they won't read an AMD processor properly because AMD decided that they would do some kind of wacky delta to TDP based on core load and power consumption at the moment to tell the core temperature... which seems to vary from CPU to CPU.

in order to get a proper reading on AMD CPU's you need to either read the "socket" temp (which while not 100% accurate, is still fairly close to actual temp.) or find a program that does the proper reading of the CPU data and performs the maths.

AMD overdrive accurately displays temps. (mainly becasue AMD software)...and I've found "Speedfan" is the most accurate "socket" temperature reading.

dkersten

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 01:00:25 pm »
I don't compress my MKV's, but I watch them on a large screen with high end audio, so I prefer 100% blu-ray quality.  I did run some commercial removal on some shows I recorded with the HDHomeRun, and that took some horsepower, but I wasn't watching how hot my i7-8700 got.  It chugged right along for about 20 hours removing commercials from about 250 files.  Now I have Plex doing it during recording and I'm using my old i5 gen3 setup, and it works pretty hard too.  Again, I don't monitor temps but I should. 

I thought about compressing the movies.  I am up to 20tb and need to expand storage soon.  Keeping them backed up is the part that sucks, lol.  Every time I add 8 or 16tb of storage I have to double it for back up... But like I said, I don't like the idea of compressing the rips. 

When I bought my i7-8700 it had just come back into stock and the price was well below street price, so I was happy with it.  The ryzen was comparable but I had bad experiences with AMD in the past and just can't get myself to go back to them.  I wouldn't worry too much about anything under around 80*c.  Yes, the life might be reduced, but if that is what you bought the processor for, then it's just the cost of using it.  All cpu's lose transistors over time, and they slow down as a result.  You mostly just speed that degradation rate up when driving it hard.  You can baby a computer and make it last 5 or 6 years without much loss in performance, or you can drive it like you stole it and get the most from it.  Complete failure is unlikely.

I did have an AMD failure once, and it was catastrophic.  The fan stopped spinning over a weekend and the cpu actually caught fire.  We came in Monday to a room that was still a bit smokey and stunk pretty bad.  We were lucky the fire didn't get out of the case. 

Malenko

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 02:10:49 pm »
I don't compress my MKV's, but I watch them on a large screen with high end audio, so I prefer 100% blu-ray quality.
I really don't intend on buttings heads with you, but here goes :p

Compressing MKVs is a bit of a misnomer , MKV is just a container and the file can hold a compressed format. Blu-Ray quality is also the same, BluRay is just a optical disc format and has no bearing on the quality of video on it.  I know I'm arguing semantics, but it really is a misleading usage of the terms.


I thought about compressing the movies.  I am up to 20tb and need to expand storage soon.  Keeping them backed up is the part that sucks, lol.  Every time I add 8 or 16tb of storage I have to double it for back up... But like I said, I don't like the idea of compressing the rips. 
Isnt theaverage BluRay uncompressed rip like 50 gigs? You'd be filling up all that space and only have room for about 400 movies. Even if you re-encoded with VBR/VFR you could likely reduce the data footprint by half with no detectable loss in quality. Im not an audiophile or videophile and x265 is pretty amazing considering the file sizes it puts out. I have yet to watch a 1080P rip in x265 and think "man this looks an sounds like hot garbage"

I'd really suggest you compress one with x265 or another format of your choosing then compare it against the original and see if worth keeping the larger format. My Plex is only rocking an 8TB data drive and Im no where near capacity. My average 1080Bluray x265 MKV is like 6GB so I could hold over 1,000 movies (but I cycle stuff in and out all the time) I do archive some of the harder to find movies on my NAS but I couldn't imagine full back ups. I'd just redownload in the event of a catastrophic drive failure.


As for AMDs, they've been the slightly slower more affordable chip for as long as I can remember. I only used to use them in my teens because they were cost effective (ie super cheap and I was dirt poor). They aren't terrible by any stretch of the imagination; but I'd rather drop the coin on the intel CPUs.  I love my Kabylake i7 , I didnt go for the coffee lake because the increase in L2+L3 cache wasnt significant enough to me and I wasnt going to take advantage of the slightly faster DDR4 speeds.  I'm sure more stuff in the future will make better use of the 6/12  but I can live with 4/8 for now.
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Raitsa

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 02:38:02 pm »

BadMouth

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 03:24:14 pm »
My main reason for converting to mp4 is to so plex doesn't have to transcode on the fly in case I do a low power plex server someday.
They are streaming to Roku and Tivo devices connected to 1080 and 720 tvs.

dkersten is playing them on an ungodly expensive projector and screen where it might actually make a difference.

About the file sizes if anyone is curious:
Ripping only the movie, the mkv is 25-30GB or most movies.
The 1080 mp4 with a single 5.1 audio track & english subtitles ends up 5-9GB. 
I may go back and redo one of the few 9GB ones to see if I messed up the settings or left extra audio tracks in.



Malenko

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 03:43:31 pm »
you should try one with x265 instead of x264 ; see if it makes a difference in size and or quality. It'll probably look identical and be 60% of the size.
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BadMouth

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 04:33:19 pm »
you should try one with x265 instead of x264 ; see if it makes a difference in size and or quality. It'll probably look identical and be 60% of the size.

Interesting to know, but after a little research it looks like my older Roku and Tivo devices wouldn't be able to direct stream it.  (The Roku 4 can)
Plex would have to transcode on the fly which is what I'm trying to avoid.

I don't plan on amassing a large collection for the sake of having a large collection. 
By the time I get everything ripped, the 3TB drive will still only be halfway full.







Malenko

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 04:58:00 pm »
ahhhh didn't know your gear wouldn't play it, my bad. 
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dkersten

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 03:31:11 pm »
I don't compress my MKV's, but I watch them on a large screen with high end audio, so I prefer 100% blu-ray quality.
Compressing MKVs is a bit of a misnomer , MKV is just a container and the file can hold a compressed format. Blu-Ray quality is also the same, BluRay is just a optical disc format and has no bearing on the quality of video on it.  I know I'm arguing semantics, but it really is a misleading usage of the terms.
You are dead right, and I take no offense to calling me out on it. 
I figure that anyone who deals with MKV's understands what I mean, but you certainly have a point. 

So to rephrase: I prefer to stick to the video format found on blu ray discs rather than add compression to save space.

Quote
I thought about compressing the movies.  I am up to 20tb and need to expand storage soon.  Keeping them backed up is the part that sucks, lol.  Every time I add 8 or 16tb of storage I have to double it for back up... But like I said, I don't like the idea of compressing the rips. 
Isnt theaverage BluRay uncompressed rip like 50 gigs? You'd be filling up all that space and only have room for about 400 movies. Even if you re-encoded with VBR/VFR you could likely reduce the data footprint by half with no detectable loss in quality. Im not an audiophile or videophile and x265 is pretty amazing considering the file sizes it puts out. I have yet to watch a 1080P rip in x265 and think "man this looks an sounds like hot garbage"

I'd really suggest you compress one with x265 or another format of your choosing then compare it against the original and see if worth keeping the larger format. My Plex is only rocking an 8TB data drive and Im no where near capacity. My average 1080Bluray x265 MKV is like 6GB so I could hold over 1,000 movies (but I cycle stuff in and out all the time) I do archive some of the harder to find movies on my NAS but I couldn't imagine full back ups. I'd just redownload in the event of a catastrophic drive failure.
The average is around 25gb, some as big as 35-37, some as little as 15.  I am at about 400 TV shows, 650 movies, and a few thousand songs and sitting just under 20tb.  The TV shows are mostly compressed quite a bit, most of the songs are MP3, but about 200 of them are FLAC, and all the movies are from blu ray and about 600 of those movies are not compressed further after ripping.  UHD can get bigger, my biggest is around 60mb, but I only have about a dozen UHD in my library so far.

Some people say there is no loss in quality when further compressing movies off blu ray, some say there is.  I have not done direct A/B comparisons yet, but I do have some downloaded movies that are compressed to anywhere from 700mb to 7gb, and I do notice a loss in fidelity over what I expect from 1080p.  Artifacts, banding, and aliased edges are common.  It is far more noticeable when you get over a 120" display though.

I don't consider myself any kind of "phile", but I AM in the process of building a theater that costs an obscene amount of money (at least to me).  So I would bet that my perspective on this is probably a little different from yours.  That being said, when I get some time I will definitely compress a movie and do an A/B comparison to the raw ripped version, because I will always be the first to admit that it could just be bias.  Knowing that most of my movies on the server are the same exact quality as if played off the blu ray disc is a comfort, and maybe on some level it makes me feel better about my purchases. 

There are other reasons to not spend the time compressing my media, first and foremost being that I can notice a loss of fidelity between CD (or FLAC) over MP3.  When listening in my car or at work or even around the house with the WHA system, I don't hear a difference, but in a critical listening environment, I can definitely notice the difference.  So when you consider that I take my movies far more seriously (i.e. nearly always watching on a higher fidelity system), it makes sense to me to not waste the time.  When you add in the amount of time to compress the library coupled with the fact that the added storage only costs a small fraction of my overall theater budget, it makes a lot of sense for me.

Backups do take time, but since I ripped all my blu rays myself, and I only own about 350 of them, the hundreds of hours to replace them would be far more costly than a few 8tb drives.  I either red boxed or borrowed the rest of the blu rays, so I would be stuck downloading compressed versions if I lost mine.  The backup drives I have been buying are cheaper when you buy USB drives but have no warranty once you crack it open.  They are not fast, even internally they are half the speed of a WD Red in a NAS unit, and a quarter the speed of a WD Red Pro.  But I can automate backups fairly easily...

Now that my gigabit internet is installed, I paid for a VPN and started fleshing out my library with compressed movies.  I try to find the stuff that is only compressed down to about 7gigs, but I sometimes have to settle for the ones really compressed down to like 1.5gb or 700mb.  I only have a couple of those.  And I only have 1 dvd in my collection, because it was not available on bluray. 

Quote
As for AMDs, they've been the slightly slower more affordable chip for as long as I can remember. I only used to use them in my teens because they were cost effective (ie super cheap and I was dirt poor). They aren't terrible by any stretch of the imagination; but I'd rather drop the coin on the intel CPUs.  I love my Kabylake i7 , I didnt go for the coffee lake because the increase in L2+L3 cache wasnt significant enough to me and I wasnt going to take advantage of the slightly faster DDR4 speeds.  I'm sure more stuff in the future will make better use of the 6/12  but I can live with 4/8 for now.
I can't disagree.  AMD was also always less efficient, at least starting with the Athlon days, but a decent fan overcame that just fine.  I just didn't have good luck with Athlon processors personally, and then there was that one that caught fire...  But I built a lot of computers in the 90's and 2000's, and AMD was always a good budget choice.  I've stuck with Intel religiously since Core for my own computers.  My last upgrade was from gen3 i5 to Kabylake i7, and the gen3 is in my Plex server now.

Malenko

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2018, 03:40:28 pm »
Everyone's opinion on the compression always differs, it's why I always suggest someone try to compress a file and see if they personally notice a difference. When you take a 60GB file and try to cut it down to 700MBs you're going to take a quality hit; but compressed a few for comparison's sake and more often than not there isn't any banding/pixilation/artifacts/etc but YMMV.  Compressed TV shows usually aren't a big deal, most cable providers broadcast at 720p anyway; but you can get amazon rips and the like at 1080p.

10 feet screen sounds cool but there isn't any place in my house big enough for that lol.
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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 04:33:26 pm »
10 feet screen sounds cool but there isn't any place in my house big enough for that lol.
Stick to flat screens.  Seriously, once you start in with a projector in a light controlled room it spirals out of control and soon you will only settle for a "small" 55" in your bedroom or kitchen just because it isn't practical to go bigger, lol.  I wish I could be happy with the 65" in my living room...

I just ordered my screen for the theater, and it is just a screen that reflects the image from the projector, basically a piece of white vinyl with little holes to let sound through, and it cost me more than a high end 90" flatscreen LCD at full retail.  And that was the budget screen, the really good one was twice as much for the same exact size and spec.  It's just plain stupid...  but no more so than pinball machines in your living room or a wakeboarding boat in the driveway...  :) 

Plus it is kinda cool to say I am installing a 165" screen, or I have 21,000 watts of power in the room, or I have 22tb of storage that I need to expand, lol.  Obsession?  No, I just do this instead of fishing, hunting, camping, boating, or racing.  They say if it floats, flys, or f*cks, rent it.  There isn't anything in that saying about theaters...

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 05:20:57 pm »
Interesting to know, but after a little research it looks like my older Roku and Tivo devices wouldn't be able to direct stream it.  (The Roku 4 can)
Plex would have to transcode on the fly which is what I'm trying to avoid.

I don't plan on amassing a large collection for the sake of having a large collection. 
By the time I get everything ripped, the 3TB drive will still only be halfway full.
I use firetv boxes (the new ones) and they have a hard time with some codecs too, and it makes avoiding transcoding tough.  That's one reason I went with a dedicated server for Plex.  So many ways to skin this cat, you just gotta find the way that works best for your setup.  I'm still not convinced the way I went is the best way to go, but I don't plan to go back to Kodi any time soon.

Frankly, these days a personal media collection should mostly be niche stuff you can't get on streaming services.  I only have a growing library because my goal is to have a lot of top quality media to watch in the theater room and I don't want to get up to put blu rays in the drive.  Now that I have fast upstream internet at home, I share that library with family and friends and they really enjoy having a lot of niche titles as well as enough content to not need to pay for Netflix or Amazon.  But if I were using it for feeding mobile devices or even regular TV's, I wouldn't even bother with anything other than hard to find titles. 

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 09:20:25 pm »
I downloaded speedfan. pretty neat program, even shows hard drive temps.
Its showing my 12 volt power as 13.2 volts. Could this be a sign I need to change power supplies?
My hard drive crapped out a few weeks ago, had to replace it. I wonder now if the higher voltage could have fried it over time?

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 02:09:44 am »
I downloaded speedfan. pretty neat program, even shows hard drive temps.
Its showing my 12 volt power as 13.2 volts. Could this be a sign I need to change power supplies?
My hard drive crapped out a few weeks ago, had to replace it. I wonder now if the higher voltage could have fried it over time?

Some BIOS settings allow you to check and adjust voltage, could be a settings in there.

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 10:53:18 am »

Some BIOS settings allow you to check and adjust voltage, could be a settings in there.

Well, my BIOS reads voltage as 12.096. (It wont let me adjust it).
I hooked a meter to an unused ATA plug (yellow and black wires) and it reads 12.25

When I get back into windows, meter reads pretty steady during this time), I run speed fan, and it is reading 12 V = 13.63 V.
But my meter is reading fairly constant 12.29 V.

These leads me to think speedfan is off by nearly a volt.

Makes me doubt if temps are dead on correct now.

JDFan

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Re: CPU temps
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 11:35:00 am »

Some BIOS settings allow you to check and adjust voltage, could be a settings in there.

Well, my BIOS reads voltage as 12.096. (It wont let me adjust it).
I hooked a meter to an unused ATA plug (yellow and black wires) and it reads 12.25

When I get back into windows, meter reads pretty steady during this time), I run speed fan, and it is reading 12 V = 13.63 V.
But my meter is reading fairly constant 12.29 V.

These leads me to think speedfan is off by nearly a volt.

Makes me doubt if temps are dead on correct now.

Their readings are only as accurate as the Sensors on the MOBO and the documentation they have for how to pull the reading from them - SO best to only use them as an easy source of getting a reading, I wouldn't rely on the info they provide - but they can at least give you a heads up of something you might want to check further ( like you did with the hardware meter )

  
 

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