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Author Topic: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro  (Read 1004 times)

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BadMouth

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Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« on: May 16, 2018, 09:33:50 am »
Not for a cab, but I'm getting ready to build a new PC.  It seems new flagship processors only work with Windows 10.
Aside from everyday tasks, I'm going to use it to rip DVDs and occasionally serve as a plex server.
With the increased horsepower, I'll probably also check out newer versions of emulators.

I'll never use remote desktop.  Is there any other reason to pay the extra for pro instead of home?
(limitations on permissions, driver signing, etc?)

EDIT: ordered the home version, still curious as to if I'll regret it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:21:32 pm by BadMouth »

headkaze

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 09:24:57 pm »
Apart from Remote Desktop I don't think there is much difference. Personally I use RD a lot so I tend to pay the extra for pro.

Osirus23

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 01:30:28 am »
I use RD and Hyper-V a lot so I go with Pro. Plus you can control updates better.

BadMouth

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 09:06:00 am »
Thank you both for answering.  :cheers:

Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 09:08:03 am »
The major difference between the two is the RDP and you cant join Home to a Domain, other than that they are pretty much the same. You should be fine with home. I would have answered sooner but I just saw this.
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DeLuSioNal29

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2018, 10:37:15 am »
I just went through the same thing last month.  I ended up going with Pro and here's why:
  • The USB stick version for Home was $119.99
  • The DVD version for Pro was (on sale) for $139.99 (normally $149)

So for $20 difference I went Pro.  The USB stick versions (which I was originally set on buying) were both more expensive for either Home or Pro.  So the money saved with the DVD version I used towards the Pro.

Edit:  I found this video useful explaining everything - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx6y8jD84o

DeL
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 10:47:55 am by DeLuSioNal29 »
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JDFan

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2018, 11:21:59 am »
I just went through the same thing last month.  I ended up going with Pro and here's why:
  • The USB stick version for Home was $119.99
  • The DVD version for Pro was (on sale) for $139.99 (normally $149)

So for $20 difference I went Pro.  The USB stick versions (which I was originally set on buying) were both more expensive for either Home or Pro.  So the money saved with the DVD version I used towards the Pro.

Edit:  I found this video useful explaining everything - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx6y8jD84o

DeL

SO you bought the Retail Version ? IF so you can just download the USB iso off of Microsofts website to make your own USB version from the DVD -- https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 ( IIRC you may need to put in the Key in order to download - Or if you already have a win 10 device registered with your account it will let you download without entering the key)

Also Is there any reason you didn't just buy a refurb Computer that included the windows license and just transfer that key to your build -- that way for less $ you get the win10 pro license and a complete computer system that you could install linux or an older version of windows on ( the license on the refurbs is not activated yet when you buy it so that key will activate on a system you build if you enter it into your build same as buying an oem win10 install disk ! )  -- I've done that a few times and never had problems and from sites like arrowdirect/amazon you can get a refurb core2 system with a new win 10 pro license for about $50 shipped..

Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2018, 11:40:59 am »
not that anyone checks or cares, but that's violating the EULA.
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

JDFan

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 11:53:03 am »
not that anyone checks or cares, but that's violating the EULA.

Perhaps but their authentication servers activate it and the activation check shows the system as licensed and activated just like any other purchased copy and it shows as a valid install on your Microsoft account so you can reinstall at any time and it will reactivate the system. ( Figure the refurbisher paid for the license and you bought the system from them and are only using the license on one system as required and when you run the activation on their server it is then tied to that one systems MOBO just like it would be with any other purchase of an OEM license - so while it may technically violate the EULA there is no way anyone could tell whether it was purchased specifically for that system or not !  :dunno

Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2018, 12:54:06 pm »
You can't be compliant using a win10 license packaged with hardware on another system, it violates the EULA.  That doesn't mean it doesn't work or that its detectible, just that you aren't supposed to do it.  Personal users pretty much never get caught, but on a corporate level its actually a big deal.

I just wanted to make others aware that it ain't all strictly legal. Some people actually do care about that kind of stuff.
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Osirus23

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2018, 01:25:59 pm »
Yeah its a non-concern for personal users, but they take corporate use seriously. MS audited my last company and it was a big pain in the ass.

Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2018, 01:39:59 pm »
Yeah its a non-concern for personal users, but they take corporate use seriously. MS audited my last company and it was a big pain in the ass.

I did the voluntary audit last time just to avoid the mandatory one. They say the voluntary one is optional but they don't really mean it, lol.
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JDFan

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2018, 03:17:24 pm »
You can't be compliant using a win10 license packaged with hardware on another system, it violates the EULA. 

According to an answer to a question on answers.microsoft.com :

Quote

 A:

Yes, you can buy and use them, under the license terms say they are intended for system builders who are building and selling systems. There is nothing preventing the average user from purchasing a copy and use it, in fact, many people do.

Understand the limitations that come with it:

OEM versions of Windows 10 are identical to Full License Retail versions except for the following:

- OEM versions do not offer any free Microsoft direct support from Microsoft support personnel

- OEM licenses are tied to the very first computer you install and activate it on

- OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a different model motherboard

- OEM versions cannot be used to directly upgrade from an older Windows operating system



So according to that when you buy a system with an OEM license it is not yet tied to that system since it has been installed but is not yet activated so is not yet tied to that system And you can buy, sell or transfer an OEM license - So whether it is Technically against the EULA or not is debatable. Since the license package is not tied to that system until it is activated on that system and is transferable or sellable to another system builder until such time as it is installed and activated on a particular system.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 03:18:58 pm by JDFan »

Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2018, 04:09:02 pm »
That's for an OEM version of the software, not an OEM version of the software that comes with hardware.  My last gig I dealt with compliance, I do the same thing at my current job. I've been audited by Microsoft when I worked at an MSP. When they sell you piece of hardware with a windows key tied to it, its logically tied to that piece of hardware and is not transferable even if it hasn't actually been installed or used. OEM can not be transferred , Full retail gets a single 1 time transfer.

The closest thing to what you are doing is more like this scenario:

What happens if I change my motherboard?
As it pertains to the OEM licenses this will invalidate the Windows 10 upgrade license because it will no longer have a previous base qualifying license which is required for the free upgrade. You will then have to purchase a full retail Windows 10 license. If the base qualifying license (Windows 7 or Windows 8.1) was a full retail version, then yes, you can transfer it.

Since you are buying a PC logically tied to an OEM Win10 Key, you cannot transfer it.


Again, all of that is moot since personal end users aren't audited by Microsoft. Your method works, you can't be caught, but its still not kosher :)
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JDFan

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2018, 04:52:47 pm »
The closest thing to what you are doing is more like this scenario:

What happens if I change my motherboard?
As it pertains to the OEM licenses this will invalidate the Windows 10 upgrade license because it will no longer have a previous base qualifying license which is required for the free upgrade. You will then have to purchase a full retail Windows 10 license. If the base qualifying license (Windows 7 or Windows 8.1) was a full retail version, then yes, you can transfer it.

Since you are buying a PC logically tied to an OEM Win10 Key, you cannot transfer it.


Again, all of that is moot since personal end users aren't audited by Microsoft. Your method works, you can't be caught, but its still not kosher :)

Not really because at that point ( replacing the MOBO in a previously working and activated system ) the license is installed and more importantly Activated which is what ties that key to that system -- if however lets say an OEM is building the unit and installs the OS to it and then discovers that the MOBO is defective and thus swaps out the MOBO and then packages the key from the defective system with the new system (with the replaced MOBO) - the OEM builder would not have to use a second key since the first key had never been activated and thus was never tied to that original MOBO so they could just use the original key.

The OEM key is not tied to a system until it is activated on that system - so it can be transferred to another system until such time as a system is activated using that key ( which is the point that the license key is tied to the system ( MOBO) that was used to activate it. Since Microsoft has decided the key is considered used once it is activated by the end user - Until then the Software is not tied to a specific machine - the act of activating the key on their servers is what ties that key to that MOBO and it then becomes non transferable.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 05:03:57 pm by JDFan »

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2018, 08:49:03 pm »
So Iím guessing thatís how Kinguin is able to sell keys for $30?

For me, Win 10 was going to be on my new workstation so I wanted everything 100% legit.  So I bought the physical license key.

If it were a MAME build Iíd probably gamble on Kinguin. Iíve heard good things. But I still donít trust it for an OS that I use for business. What if it craps out?

DeL
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Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2018, 10:12:25 pm »
The OEM key is not tied to a system until it is activated on that system - so it can be transferred to another system until such time as a system is activated using that key ( which is the point that the license key is tied to the system ( MOBO) that was used to activate it. Since Microsoft has decided the key is considered used once it is activated by the end user - Until then the Software is not tied to a specific machine - the act of activating the key on their servers is what ties that key to that MOBO and it then becomes non transferable.
Your interpretation of the rules is incorrect. The best example I can think of that explains this easily is this:
I buy a new windows 10 PC with an OEM key. Before I power it on for the first time, I pull the hard drive. I put a new hard drive in and then install a linux OS. I give someone else the windows 10 key.  The key was not activated.  They are breaking the EULA of the Win10 key because they are not installing it on the computer the key came with because the key cannot be transferred from the original equipment.

I don't know why you want to continue to have this conversation.  Its your interpretation against what I know the rules are. OEM and Retail keys are different for a reason. I've been doing IT for 24 years, and my current and last gig both have a big focus on licensing and compliance. Again, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Personal end users are almost never busted and your method will work. It's like downloading and playing a rom. You can do it and not get caught, but that doesn't mean its on the up and up.
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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2018, 07:54:15 pm »
You can't be compliant using a win10 license packaged with hardware on another system, it violates the EULA.  That doesn't mean it doesn't work or that its detectible, just that you aren't supposed to do it.  Personal users pretty much never get caught, but on a corporate level its actually a big deal.

I just wanted to make others aware that it ain't all strictly legal. Some people actually do care about that kind of stuff.

Does everyone here own hundreds, or thousands, or even one arcade cab so that they can legally fill their machine with ROMs? ;)

I'm kind of kidding, but at the same time we have people here designing launchers for brand new games that are still making money in arcades simply because "That game isn't near my hometown so I have to steal it".

I've pirated stuff in the past, downloaded games I mean. I never tried to justify it though - it's stealing. I just don't always care, and that's me being honest and not making up lame excuses about it.

As a game developer I'm a bit torn here sometimes. Games from the 80s, sure I can justify it to myself, legal or not. Still illegal. But these newer games, I stay away from that. I've had my own games pirated so I know the other side of this whole argument.

Anyways, legal schmegal.
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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2018, 09:15:20 pm »
Quote
The key was not activated.  They are breaking the EULA of the Win10 key because they are not installing it on the computer the key came with because the key cannot be transferred from the original equipment.
IF that were in fact true - Newegg, Amazon and other retailers selling OEM keys would also be violating the EULA - since those keys are being sold without original hardware - The OEM license can be sold/transferred from the retailers to any system builder that can use that key on any combination of hardware he wants to build and the license is not tied to that specific hardware until it is activated on a specific hardware at which point it is tied to that specific MOBO ( they are selling a license for Software not a hardware/software bundle ) - If as you say the activation of the key never happened then you are within your rights to be able to transfer that key to another system builder who is able to use that key on their hardware as long as the key has never been activated and tied to a specific machine. ( Just like Newegg selling a customer an OEM license key that they can use on any system they build or even give/sell to another person for them to use on a system they build - The OEM license purchased from a retailer is not tied to a specific build until an end user activates that key on a microsoft activation server.)

Malenko

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2018, 08:43:03 am »
Are we still talking in circles? What is it that you aren't getting?
Ok, this is my last time around though.

Newegg, Amazon, etc are Microsoft partners and authorized key sellers; so I don't even know why you are mentioning them.

This is the simplest I can break down the rules:
If you buy an OEM key that is not bundled with hardware, you can use it on any system. You cannot transfer that key to another system once its used.
If you buy a piece of hardware and it comes with an OEM key, you can only use it with that hardware. You cannot transfer that key to another system.



"The OEM license purchased from a retailer is not tied to a specific build until an end user activates that key on a microsoft activation server."
That is ONLY true if the software was not bundled with hardware; which seems to be the point you keep missing. If an OEM is bundling the key with hardware they are selling it IS logically tied to that hardware. Its not up for debate, its not open to interpretation, its just the rules. Despite never being activated previously the key is still tied to the hardware. I know, you can use the key and it'll work; but its still against the rules.
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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2018, 09:53:05 pm »
I know it's not as relevant for the later messages, but I used Win10 Home and I use RDP a TON. You can do this on Win10 Home by using a wrapper library available on GitHub. There have been legality discussions about it (on the GitHub itself), but the project has been there a while, so I assume it's OK. I have had success with it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:57:50 pm by nugarp »

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Re: Windows 10 - Home vs Pro
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 01:15:57 pm »
I know it's not as relevant for the later messages, but I used Win10 Home and I use RDP a TON. You can do this on Win10 Home by using a wrapper library available on GitHub. There have been legality discussions about it (on the GitHub itself), but the project has been there a while, so I assume it's OK. I have had success with it.


Watch out, Microsoft owns GitHub now.

  
 

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