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Howard_Casto:
Voyager is in the classic Star Trek ensemble cast format, which is why it has some good episodes despite the notoriously bad writing at the time. That format allows for any character to shine and for any writer to submit a script because it isn't serialized. That's why Star Trek worked. You had the best sci-fi writers of the day along with complete amateurs submitting scripts constantly so all that was needed was a steady had to pick the best scripts and a few staff writers to edit for continuity errors and ect. Now it's serialized, which means only a few writers can work on it and if they get a bad idea there aren't people above them to nix it.

Take DS9, which is a profoundly good show, but the more serialized it got, the more bad ideas creeped in which culminated in the final season where Ben learns he's half wormhole alien, aka Bajoran Jesus and in the final episode he walks away from a celebration party, because.... reasons and goes to fight Gul Ducot, who is now the Bajoran Devil. It was a terrible season with a terrible ending because the Battlestar guys were writing the show pretty much exclusively at that point and they have some kind of weird hard-on for shoe-horning religious b.s. into sci-fi shows for no reason. Putting religio into a Star Trek show is the anthesis of Roddenberry's vision and a good show runner would have caught that, but they didn't have one.

leapinlew:

--- Quote from: Osirus23 on September 23, 2020, 10:59:21 am ---Rewatching Voyager and it's a lot better than I had remembered. Either that or the bar has just been lowered so far by ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like Picard and JJ Trek.

--- End quote ---

For me, watching Voyager in episode order really elevated it with me as one of the better Treks. They introduced some really cool aliens, and would nerf them a few episodes later.

shponglefan:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on September 23, 2020, 04:42:31 pm ---Putting religio into a Star Trek show is the anthesis of Roddenberry's vision and a good show runner would have caught that, but they didn't have one.
--- End quote ---

I liked the exploration of religion in DS9, particularly with respect to the Bajoran culture. Where it suffered was when they started diving too much into the wormhole aliens and pah wraith stuff. As an exploration of cultural ideas, I thought it an appropriate inclusion since it nicely contrasted the typically areligious Federation.

TNG also dabbled in spiritual/religious themes, just not as heavily as DS9.

Howard_Casto:
Here's the thing.... on Star Trek the human race is supposed to be evolved.... thus why the crew always gets along, they always take the moral high ground ect.... It's perfectly acceptable to explore an alien religion so long as only the aliens believe in it.... because the humans can't as they have evolved past it. Early on when Ben was accepting of the Bajoran's belief that he was an emissary was fine. He was respectful of their more primitive beliefs but he just believed the wormhole aliens to be aliens. Towards the end when he was believing his own ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- was when it was bad. Personal belief is also ok for humans.... they just have to accept that it isn't going to be used for a command decision as it's generally accepted that logic and reason are used to tackle problems and not faith. I understand that what I just said might be offensive to some people, but that was Roddenberry's vision and a progressive agenda is part of the deal with Star Trek. If you remove that it ceases to be Trek.

I think the only other real exploration of human religion in Trek was Star Trek V... where the crew goes to find god and find the devil instead. It was done fairly well by keeping things ambiguous (could just be interpreted as an alien) but that didn't keep people from hating it. I have a soft spot for it personally but it's walking a razor's edge with that theme. The fact that it's TOS cast helps a little bit.

Lew: They "nerfed" all those aliens on voyager because nobody liked them and the ratings reflected that. Things didn't turn around for voyager until 7of9 showed up and their primary antagonists became the borg. There wasn't a single beloved alien created for voyager and towards the end they had Ferengi and Klingons on the show despite the fact that they were too far away to realistically encounter them. The Vidions and Herogin were kind of fan favorites.... kind of...

Osirus23:
I hated the Bajoran crap in DS9. Especially in the series finale where the showdown between Sisko and Dukat in Mt. Doom was so blatantly tacked-on. What a way to ruin an episode. Dukat was a great character throughout the series as well until season 7 came along with the Pah Wraith horse ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. The Federation is at of near total-war that is reaching it tipping point and the audience's time is wasted with Nurse Ratched trying to read the Necronomicon. Bleh.

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