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Author Topic: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies  (Read 799 times)

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yo1dog

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Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« on: March 20, 2018, 03:26:57 pm »
I am looking at buying one of the few used digital multi/tri-sync CRTs left on the market. I see a few Wells Gardner D9200 for sale. However, it seems that if you want to switch between VGA and EGA/CGA you have to physically move a jumper. Ideally I would be able to switch between CGA, EGA, and VGA automatically.

So the questions are: Are/where there any digital multi/tri-sync CRTs that allowed you to switch between all 3 automatically? Has anyone modded the D9200 to do so? I imagine relays could do the trick.

Another solution is converting an analog multisync into a crude digital one as we discussed here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151383.msg1582325.html#msg1582325

grantspain

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 05:46:29 pm »
the wei ya and rodotron tri sync chassis do auto switch res, only switch is video level switch on remote board
one of the later Toshiba did full auto switching, rare as hens teeth though

dgame

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2018, 09:31:07 am »
The Wells Gardner D9200 switches  between VGA and EGA/CGA automatically.

Moneyhead

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 10:15:52 am »
Yep, mine too.

yo1dog

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2018, 11:14:24 am »
Interesting. I was looking at this diagram of the D9200 and it shows two positions for the ribbon cable on the video interface board: One for VGA and the other for CGA/EGA. Perhaps that simply refers to the video input connection type (pins vs VGA cable)?

Whatever the case, do you guys just send all 3 frequencies through the VGA cable?

Moneyhead

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2018, 01:53:45 pm »
Yes, I have an ATI card with Calamity driver and Groovymame.
Seamless switching for all games.

But take care: It is not 15-40kHz. You really have 3 frequency ranges with gaps inbetween.

yo1dog

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 04:40:34 pm »
So I just did a helpful exercise: I took my ROM collection (all the games I care about) and wrote a little script that separated the games based on resolution:
CGA: 203
EGA: 5
VGA: 18
Other: 13

As you can see, a vast majority are CGA. Most of the non-CGA games were racing games which I am fine with not supporting as my cab will not have racing controls or newer fighting games that I don't really care that much about. Nothing to be done about vector games.

The only notable exceptions are:
Paperboy (EGA)
Dragon's Lair (VGA)

So, this has led me to the conclusion that I do not actually need a multisync monitor. A CGA arcade monitor or CRT TV should due just fine.

What do you guys think? Any notable EGA or VGA games I may be missing?

Moneyhead

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 10:29:29 am »

A lot of points against CGA:

- There is one big mistake in your list.
  A lot of the CGA games are for a vertical monitor setup. And especially a lot of classics like Pacman, Donkey Kong, Galaga, Bomb Jack ...
  e.g. Galaga is 288x244 ... so if you want to use the MAMEs rotation feature, Galaga will have 288 lines which is far out from 15kHz.

- in my cabinet I am also running other Emulators.
  There are some great games for Model 2 and Sega Dreamcast/Naomi with VGA resolution.

- cabinet administration in Windows on a CGA monitor in low resolution or interlace mode is a pain in the ass

So if you have the moneyi would highly recommend to get a D9200!!!


Moneyhead

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 11:06:34 am »
... and another one

D9200 is saving the setup for each resolution.

On a single frequency crt you'll have to fiddle arround with image size and sync a lot of times for games with different resolutions. Also a pain the ass.

yo1dog

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 02:50:21 pm »
A lot of the CGA games are for a vertical monitor setup.

I have been increasingly thinking of doing two arcade cabinets. One horizontal and one vertical. I think it would cost about the same to build 2 cabs with 2 TVs than one with a $600 Arcade monitor.

There are some great games for Model 2 and Sega Dreamcast/Naomi with VGA resolution.

Personally, I have no need for his.

cabinet administration in Windows on a CGA monitor in low resolution or interlace mode is a pain in the ass

It is certainly not ideal, but it has not been that big of a deal so far. I turn of the TV and use remote desktop and a high resolution any time I need to do anything complex in windows.


D9200 is saving the setup for each resolution.

I thought it only saved settings for EGA, CGA, and VGA. Does it really save settings for each resolution or video mode?

Moneyhead

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 02:23:23 am »
A lot of the CGA games are for a vertical monitor setup.

I have been increasingly thinking of doing two arcade cabinets. One horizontal and one vertical. I think it would cost about the same to build 2 cabs with 2 TVs than one with a $600 Arcade monitor.

Yes, also great if you have enaugh space.

D9200 is saving the setup for each resolution.

I thought it only saved settings for EGA, CGA, and VGA. Does it really save settings for each resolution or video mode?

No, storing the setting is based on the resolution frequency.
Triple sync also doesn't mean you have 3 fixed frequencies.
You have 3 ranges and VMMaker and Groovymame are generating resolutions with slighty different horizontal and vertical frequencies for each resolution anyway.

I am sure the number of stored settings is limited somehow. But there are definitly more than 3 settings.


« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 02:28:09 am by Moneyhead »

yo1dog

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 11:40:26 am »
Triple sync also doesn't mean you have 3 fixed frequencies.
You have 3 ranges and VMMaker and Groovymame are generating resolutions with slighty different horizontal and vertical frequencies for each resolution anyway.

I know :)

No, storing the setting is based on the resolution frequency.

Are referring to the horizontal frequency? Of course, there are games that run at the same horizontal frequency but varying widths, number of lines, and vertical frequencies.

I am sure the number of stored settings is limited somehow. But there are definitly more than 3 settings.

This is what I am doubting and I hope someone can confirm. In this thread we discussed controlling an analog tri sync with servos. Someone brought up the advantage of being able to adjust at a game-by-game basis. I take this to mean that it is not possible to adjust to individual games/video modes on a typical digital tri sync.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 11:42:02 am by yo1dog »

Moneyhead

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Re: Multi/Tri-Sync CRTs switching frequencies
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2018, 12:11:20 pm »
The manual for D9300 says:

3-5 Control panel.
If you require different display characteristics other than the factory mode presets of size,
position, color settings, use the control panel to program it to your requirements in each
resolution mode. These adjusted settings are kept in memory even if you change resolution
mode or turn off the monitor.

I can say, that I never had any problems needing to readjust something, that I've had changed.

  
 

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