Convert existing arcade to MAME

[jkimrey]

Hi.

I have an older full size arcade. 

Initially I purchased a Pandora's Key that plugged into the JAMMA harness.

Unfortunately the 20" CRT had several issues that were not resolved by a full cap kit replacement, so I've decided to replace the CRT with an LCD.

Since I'm doing that, I've decided to go ahead and go the rest of the way and upgrade the control panel and switch from the Pandora's Key to a computer running MAME.

I already have a J-PAC, so I am planning on using it to connect to the JAMMA harness and just ignore the video ports on the J-PAC and plug directly into the monitor from the computer.

My first decision is the monitor replacement.  As mentioned, a 19" CRT was previously used, but it was mounted on a frame with a cardboard bezel, so there is more room available.  It looks like a size up to 30" would fit, although I will have to find some way to mount it.

My main goal is to play the classic arcade games, although I'd rather not limit it if possible.

I know the classic arcade games are mostly 4:3 but since they are difficult to find now and can't be found larger than 19", I was thinking about a monitor with a wider display and have it convert to 4:3 for those older games.

That, of course, means I'd need a size larger than 19" to display those games at the same size as the previous CRT.

Having said all of the above, could anyone help with the things I should be looking for and good options?

I assume low response time (5ms or lower); anything else I should be looking for?

I was hoping not to spend more than $200-$300 on the monitor.

After that decision I will have to decide on the PC.  For money constraint concerns, I might get something lower spec'd that will play the older arcade games and upgrade later. 

For the monitor, however, I was hoping to get something that I wouldn't need to upgrade for awhile, as another upgrade would be more difficult after I put in a new mounting solution, etc.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to give enough information.

I know I have a lot of work ahead - monitor replacement, MAME setup, controller board replacement, etc.

With the knowledge here I'm hoping to make it as painless as possible.

TIA.

[paigeoliver]

The best budget choice is an older 21" CRT computer monitor. Probably won't cost more than $25 to $50, and will give you basically the same 4:3 viewing area that a 27" widescreen would anyway.

[1500points]

Since you are willing to spend 200-300 just get the new wells-gardner 19in arcade flat panel takes in cga or vga and outputs super bright vga with deep viewing angles.  Retrofits perfectly for an old arcade monitor too


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[jkimrey]

The best budget choice is an older 21" CRT computer monitor. Probably won't cost more than $25 to $50, and will give you basically the same 4:3 viewing area that a 27" widescreen would anyway.

I've been looking around on Craigslist and local thrift stores but haven't found anything yet.

[jkimrey]

Since you are willing to spend 200-300 just get the new wells-gardner 19in arcade flat panel takes in cga or vga and outputs super bright vga with deep viewing angles.  Retrofits perfectly for an old arcade monitor too


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Do you have any experience with the monitor? Think it's worth the extra cost over a used CRT?

Also would the VGA only limit playing any of the newer arcade games?

Would definitely be much easier solution - like you said, it should fit right in!

BTW - do you have the model number of the newest ?

Thanks

[1500points]

Supposedly high score saves started carrying it now.  I use one and it is better than computer monitor. Tempest in mame really glows great, not like vector obviously but much brighter than computer monitor


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[wp34]

Supposedly high score saves started carrying it now.  I use one and it is better than computer monitor. Tempest in mame really glows great, not like vector obviously but much brighter than computer monitor


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How did Star Wars look on it?

[1500points]

Supposedly high score saves started carrying it now.  I use one and it is better than computer monitor. Tempest in mame really glows great, not like vector obviously but much brighter than computer monitor


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How did Star Wars look on it?

They all look good including major havoc.  As long as you don’t have the cab side by side with the real thing.  The brain is good at compromising


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[wp34]

Supposedly high score saves started carrying it now.  I use one and it is better than computer monitor. Tempest in mame really glows great, not like vector obviously but much brighter than computer monitor


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did Star Wars look on it?

They all look good including major havoc.  As long as you don’t have the cab side by side with the real thing.  The brain is good at compromising


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[Mike A]

Once again a bunch of bad excuses for going with a LCD. Original cabinets were not designed for the monitor you want to shove in there. Have some patience and pick up a CRT when one becomes available at the right price. At 200 to 300 dollars that should not be difficult at all.

[jkimrey]

Understood.  My concern is not only finding a CRT, but finding one and then have issues with it soon after.

I've spent alot of time trying to repair the existing CRT, but nothing seems to fix the issue.

At this point I'm looking for something reliable that my son and I can use to finally enjoy the arcade we have.

Finding a CRT that would accomplish that would be great.  If it came down to a reliable LCD without the authentic look vs a unreliable CRT that is authentic when it works, I'd prefer the LCD.

I'm not saying a reliable CRT isn't possible, just that it hasn't been with my current situation.  That's one reason I created the thread to get feedback on the thoughts and experiences of others.

[keilmillerjr]

Understood.  My concern is not only finding a CRT, but finding one and then have issues with it soon after.

I've spent alot of time trying to repair the existing CRT, but nothing seems to fix the issue.

At this point I'm looking for something reliable that my son and I can use to finally enjoy the arcade we have.

Finding a CRT that would accomplish that would be great.  If it came down to a reliable LCD without the authentic look vs a unreliable CRT that is authentic when it works, I'd prefer the LCD.

I'm not saying a reliable CRT isn't possible, just that it hasn't been with my current situation.  That's one reason I created the thread to get feedback on the thoughts and experiences of others.

I just upgraded to a new family crt tv, but old one is 25 years old. I think they are reliable, just prone to issues like burn in which can be avoided.

[jkimrey]

Understood.  My concern is not only finding a CRT, but finding one and then have issues with it soon after.

I've spent alot of time trying to repair the existing CRT, but nothing seems to fix the issue.

At this point I'm looking for something reliable that my son and I can use to finally enjoy the arcade we have.

Finding a CRT that would accomplish that would be great.  If it came down to a reliable LCD without the authentic look vs a unreliable CRT that is authentic when it works, I'd prefer the LCD.

I'm not saying a reliable CRT isn't possible, just that it hasn't been with my current situation.  That's one reason I created the thread to get feedback on the thoughts and experiences of others.

I just upgraded to a new family crt tv, but old one is 25 years old. I think they are reliable, just prone to issues like burn in which can be avoided.

Are you saying you replaced your arcade CRT with a CRT from a TV?

[1500points]

I just spent $200 on art to bring a pacman cabaret back from bad hack land.
Got it all setup just right. Proud of the effort.
This evening I turned it on and g07 popped now dead.  Not the visible fuses.

If they made a 13in arcade quality flat panel I would totally replace that pesky monitor.


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[jkimrey]

Supposedly high score saves started carrying it now.  I use one and it is better than computer monitor. Tempest in mame really glows great, not like vector obviously but much brighter than computer monitor


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Is there a model number?  I see several WG 19" with different model numbers and would like to make sure I get the latest.

Any idea when WG released this model?

Thanks

[1500points]

This is the one I bought but you should ask him what the pros and cons of each one are.  I would be curious, too.

http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200_512_515&products_id=507&zenid=pm88r5mrr7k3t7n1j70s2gpul4


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[DeLuSioNal29]

Where are you located?  I have a few computer CRT monitors (VGA connectors) that you can choose from.  I'm in the NYC area.

DeL

[jkimrey]

Where are you located?  I have a few computer CRT monitors (VGA connectors) that you can choose from.  I'm in the NYC area.
DeL

Really appreciate that offer!  Unfortunately I live in NC.

I did find a company (Sharp Image Repair in NV) who actually advertised here.  They work on my brand of chassis, so I'm going to send it in and hope for the best!

Thanks again

[paigeoliver]

I run about 25 CRTs at any given time and have done so for about 16 years now (hundreds of them in total). None of the ones I have personally serviced have ever given me any problems again. And I have only had maybe a half dozen of them that I found working actually end up going out on me later, all of those that I can remember had either been stored for years and failed rather quickly or were ones I necked the tube on. In any case all of the half dozen got repaired eventually, with the exception of this ancient 13" black and white monitor that I ended up selling off the game before ever even troubleshooting why the monitor died.

Remember, CRT monitors are the most reliable monitors in the world, and you probably won't put a solid month's worth of on-time into one in 10 years of home video game use.

[jkimrey]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

[keilmillerjr]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

Use crt emudriver compatibile card.

I have 2 HD4350 cards I’m not using. 1 is brand new, other used. One atom15 bios flashed z make offer via pm if interested.

[jkimrey]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

Use crt emudriver compatibile card.

I have 2 HD4350 cards I’m not using. 1 is brand new, other used. One atom15 bios flashed z make offer via pm if interested.

I assume the benefit is more processing power in most of the crt emudriver comp cards?

Would a HD4350 cover running all the different arcade emulations or would I need a card with more power?

[keilmillerjr]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

Use crt emudriver compatibile card.

I have 2 HD4350 cards I’m not using. 1 is brand new, other used. One atom15 bios flashed z make offer via pm if interested.

I assume the benefit is more processing power in most of the crt emudriver comp cards?

Would a HD4350 cover running all the different arcade emulations or would I need a card with more power?

mame uses cpu for processing power. Advantage of crt emudriver is the ability to change installed modelines I believe. Your stuck with the arcadevga. Crt emudriver is easy to setup if you follow tutorial their website.

[jkimrey]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

Use crt emudriver compatibile card.

I have 2 HD4350 cards I’m not using. 1 is brand new, other used. One atom15 bios flashed z make offer via pm if interested.

I assume the benefit is more processing power in most of the crt emudriver comp cards?

Would a HD4350 cover running all the different arcade emulations or would I need a card with more power?

mame uses cpu for processing power. Advantage of crt emudriver is the ability to change installed modelines I believe. Your stuck with the arcadevga. Crt emudriver is easy to setup if you follow tutorial their website.

So if I understand correctly you're saying that I will need to use an ArcadeVGA card if I'm going to run MAME on a CRT (or, at least that it's the best option)?  (For instance, an ArcadeVGA with j-pac if I'm going to be using existing JAMMA harness).

Regarding the CPU for processing, the current desktop I have that I was planning on using has the following specs:
         -Processor:   Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         860  @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
         - OS : Windows 10
         - RAM : 8GB
         - Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 SE

I'm planning on using a j-pac to allow me to use the existing JAMMA harness for wiring.  If my CRT gets fixed, it sounds like I'll need to replace the GTX 560 SE with an ArcadeVGA.  If it doesn't and I go with an LCD, I assume the GTX 560 would work.

Based on the above specs, should I run into any issues running with Hyperspin frontend ?

TIA

[keilmillerjr]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

Use crt emudriver compatibile card.

I have 2 HD4350 cards I’m not using. 1 is brand new, other used. One atom15 bios flashed z make offer via pm if interested.

I assume the benefit is more processing power in most of the crt emudriver comp cards?

Would a HD4350 cover running all the different arcade emulations or would I need a card with more power?

mame uses cpu for processing power. Advantage of crt emudriver is the ability to change installed modelines I believe. Your stuck with the arcadevga. Crt emudriver is easy to setup if you follow tutorial their website.

So if I understand correctly you're saying that I will need to use an ArcadeVGA card if I'm going to run MAME on a CRT (or, at least that it's the best option)?  (For instance, an ArcadeVGA with j-pac if I'm going to be using existing JAMMA harness).

Regarding the CPU for processing, the current desktop I have that I was planning on using has the following specs:
         -Processor:   Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         860  @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
         - OS : Windows 10
         - RAM : 8GB
         - Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 SE

I'm planning on using a j-pac to allow me to use the existing JAMMA harness for wiring.  If my CRT gets fixed, it sounds like I'll need to replace the GTX 560 SE with an ArcadeVGA.  If it doesn't and I go with an LCD, I assume the GTX 560 would work.

Based on the above specs, should I run into any issues running with Hyperspin frontend ?

TIA

No. Arcadevga is limited to preinstalled mode lines. Crt emudriver is software to reprogram compatible cards, and is more configurable. Click on the groovymame sub forum and look for sticky topics. HD 4350 like I have would be good choice, or other HD series cards too.

[jkimrey]

So if I do get lucky and get the CRT repaired, what's the best way to run MAME on it?

Is an ArcadeVGA 5000 still the best option?

Use crt emudriver compatibile card.

I have 2 HD4350 cards I’m not using. 1 is brand new, other used. One atom15 bios flashed z make offer via pm if interested.

I assume the benefit is more processing power in most of the crt emudriver comp cards?

Would a HD4350 cover running all the different arcade emulations or would I need a card with more power?

mame uses cpu for processing power. Advantage of crt emudriver is the ability to change installed modelines I believe. Your stuck with the arcadevga. Crt emudriver is easy to setup if you follow tutorial their website.

So if I understand correctly you're saying that I will need to use an ArcadeVGA card if I'm going to run MAME on a CRT (or, at least that it's the best option)?  (For instance, an ArcadeVGA with j-pac if I'm going to be using existing JAMMA harness).

Regarding the CPU for processing, the current desktop I have that I was planning on using has the following specs:
         -Processor:   Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         860  @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
         - OS : Windows 10
         - RAM : 8GB
         - Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 SE

I'm planning on using a j-pac to allow me to use the existing JAMMA harness for wiring.  If my CRT gets fixed, it sounds like I'll need to replace the GTX 560 SE with an ArcadeVGA.  If it doesn't and I go with an LCD, I assume the GTX 560 would work.

Based on the above specs, should I run into any issues running with Hyperspin frontend ?

TIA

No. Arcadevga is limited to preinstalled mode lines. Crt emudriver is software to reprogram compatible cards, and is more configurable. Click on the groovymame sub forum and look for sticky topics. HD 4350 like I have would be good choice, or other HD series cards too.

Ah, gotcha.  I misread the "you are stuck with ArcadeVGA" comment.  I understand what you're saying now that with ArcadeVGA you are stuck with only the preinstalled mode lines.  I'll check out sticky as well - thanks

[jkimrey]

Sent my chassis off for repair after doing a cap kit myself didn't fix my wavy lines issue with my monitor.

They did some work on the board and sent it back after there were no issues after leaving plugged in for around an hour.

Unfortunately after getting the chassis back and hooking up, the wavy lines returned in about 5 minutes.

I've also tried unattaching the degaussing coil on the monitor but the same results.

Since it was working at the repair center, I'm thinking it must be something specific with my cab and not related to the chassis itself.

Here's a short video showing the issue:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CjYoGe0QeH4fp1Lb2

Any other suggestions?

I've spent alot of time and  money trying to get this fixed.  On the one hand this makes me want to continue and fix the issue, on the other hand it makes me want to stop wasting resources as it may never get fixed.

Very frustrating...

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[keilmillerjr]

Understood.  My concern is not only finding a CRT, but finding one and then have issues with it soon after.

I've spent alot of time trying to repair the existing CRT, but nothing seems to fix the issue.

At this point I'm looking for something reliable that my son and I can use to finally enjoy the arcade we have.

Finding a CRT that would accomplish that would be great.  If it came down to a reliable LCD without the authentic look vs a unreliable CRT that is authentic when it works, I'd prefer the LCD.

I'm not saying a reliable CRT isn't possible, just that it hasn't been with my current situation.  That's one reason I created the thread to get feedback on the thoughts and experiences of others.

I just upgraded to a new family crt tv, but old one is 25 years old. I think they are reliable, just prone to issues like burn in which can be avoided.

Are you saying you replaced your arcade CRT with a CRT from a TV?

No.

Neo Geo MVS - WG K7000
Retired to storage last year - Sony Trinitron 1993 Model?
Retired to storage last week - Toshiba CN36X81 I’m the second owner, with original purchase receipt and manual.
New bedroom tv - Sony KV-32HS500
New family tv picking up tomorrow - Sony KV-40XBR800

The only issue I have ever had with a crt (maybe I am lucky?) is the slight burn in on my neo geo, and the original owner of my toshiba must have been rough with the component cables as some of the rca receptacles are missing the plastic insert and needs to be replaced.

[keilmillerjr]

Sent my chassis off for repair after doing a cap kit myself didn't fix my wavy lines issue with my monitor.

They did some work on the board and sent it back after there were no issues after leaving plugged in for around an hour.

Unfortunately after getting the chassis back and hooking up, the wavy lines returned in about 5 minutes.

I've also tried unattaching the degaussing coil on the monitor but the same results.

Since it was working at the repair center, I'm thinking it must be something specific with my cab and not related to the chassis itself.

Here's a short video showing the issue:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CjYoGe0QeH4fp1Lb2

Any other suggestions?

I've spent alot of time and  money trying to get this fixed.  On the one hand this makes me want to continue and fix the issue, on the other hand it makes me want to stop wasting resources as it may never get fixed.

Very frustrating...

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I am not a crt professional, but your hard work will pay off. Try posting in the video section here, and try „the crt collective“ Facebook group as well.

[behrmr]

Sent my chassis off for repair after doing a cap kit myself didn't fix my wavy lines issue with my monitor.

They did some work on the board and sent it back after there were no issues after leaving plugged in for around an hour.

Unfortunately after getting the chassis back and hooking up, the wavy lines returned in about 5 minutes.

I've also tried unattaching the degaussing coil on the monitor but the same results.

Since it was working at the repair center, I'm thinking it must be something specific with my cab and not related to the chassis itself.

Here's a short video showing the issue:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CjYoGe0QeH4fp1Lb2

Any other suggestions?

I've spent alot of time and  money trying to get this fixed.  On the one hand this makes me want to continue and fix the issue, on the other hand it makes me want to stop wasting resources as it may never get fixed.

Very frustrating...

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

If you mentioned it I missed it. What monitor is this?  This could be caused by a number of things like a bad B+ filter cap, voltage regulator failure, or other interference in your cabinet.  And what was this cabinet originally?

[leapinlew]

I've went down the CRT path that these CRT nut jobs are sending you down. Never again.

I spent tons of money, only to find out that some of the resolutions the games I was using wasn't supported. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, or maybe the solution is ass. Either way, I use a computer monitor for mame, or an arcade monitor with VGA hookups designed to support the resolutions I need, or I use a LCD.

Some of these guys go a little KLV and think it's some sort of major blunder to use a LCD. I use them in a couple machines. They're fine. Give it a shot if you want, but using a LCD vs a CRT is a sacrifice I'm willing to live with.

[csnow]

I've went down the CRT path that these CRT nut jobs are sending you down. Never again.

I spent tons of money, only to find out that some of the resolutions the games I was using wasn't supported. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, or maybe the solution is ass. Either way, I use a computer monitor for mame, or an arcade monitor with VGA hookups designed to support the resolutions I need, or I use a LCD.

Some of these guys go a little KLV and think it's some sort of major blunder to use a LCD. I use them in a couple machines. They're fine. Give it a shot if you want, but using a LCD vs a CRT is a sacrifice I'm willing to live with.

I guess I am one of those CRT nut jobs.  I tried LCD on two cabs and it was horrible.  Viewing angles were wretched, colors were too vibrant and crisp, no scan-lines, and the input lag was noticeable on certain games.  I only use CRTs now.  I typically send the monitor chassis to either Chad or Buffet for rebuild and never think twice about them after that.  I keep an eye on Craigslist to find CRTs to keep as spares. 

I am not exaggerating when I say I would rather not have a classic cabinet than have one with an LCD and micro-switches.  CRT and leafs all the way for me unless the cabinet came with micros. I do like multi-machines, but I try to keep the games as true to form as possible with dedicated 4-way vert, dedicated 8-way vert, etc cabs.  I have a Neo Geo MVS with micro-switch buttons and controllers.  I would never change that to leafs because it changes the way the game was intended to be experienced.  To me, the presentation and feel is equally important as playing the game.  Either way, go with what you enjoy.  Its your money and your machine.  Make it the way you want it.

[leapinlew]

I've went down the CRT path that these CRT nut jobs are sending you down. Never again.

I spent tons of money, only to find out that some of the resolutions the games I was using wasn't supported. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, or maybe the solution is ass. Either way, I use a computer monitor for mame, or an arcade monitor with VGA hookups designed to support the resolutions I need, or I use a LCD.

Some of these guys go a little KLV and think it's some sort of major blunder to use a LCD. I use them in a couple machines. They're fine. Give it a shot if you want, but using a LCD vs a CRT is a sacrifice I'm willing to live with.

I guess I am one of those CRT nut jobs.  I tried LCD on two cabs and it was horrible.  Viewing angles were wretched, colors were too vibrant and crisp, no scan-lines, and the input lag was noticeable on certain games.  I only use CRTs now.  I typically send the monitor chassis to either Chad or Buffet for rebuild and never think twice about them after that.  I keep an eye on Craigslist to find CRTs to keep as spares. 

I am not exaggerating when I say I would rather not have a classic cabinet than have one with an LCD and micro-switches.  CRT and leafs all the way for me unless the cabinet came with micros. I do like multi-machines, but I try to keep the games as true to form as possible with dedicated 4-way vert, dedicated 8-way vert, etc cabs.  I have a Neo Geo MVS with micro-switch buttons and controllers.  I would never change that to leafs because it changes the way the game was intended to be experienced.  To me, the presentation and feel is equally important as playing the game.  Either way, go with what you enjoy.  Its your money and your machine.  Make it the way you want it.

The joystick portion of your post is interesting and a place where I see people deviate from original hardware the most.

I use WICO 4 way for my classic 4 way vertical cabinet. I use Happ microswitch 8 way for my horizontal cabinet. I use a 3" trackball to play trackball games. It's bigger than the centipede trackball, but that's a compromise I can live with. I hate Nintendo joysticks, so I use the WICO for them and it's an upgrade to me. I have a yoke for star wars. For Robotron, I have to make due with microswitch 8 way and while it's a downgrade, I can't justify the expense of 4" WICO 8 ways.

See, even in an area where I prefer to be authentic, I have to make some sacrifices. CRT's aren't worth it to me. I have a couple, but if they died, I'd replace them with a LCD and not think twice.

[Mr. Peabody]

If you love WICOs, you should have them.

21'' CRTs are getting damn scarce. Recently someone had a lot of ten or more NI-freaking-B Sonys. Even at $300 with shipping it was so worth it. Oh, wait, that's in the OP's price range. Too bad.

[csnow]

The joystick portion of your post is interesting and a place where I see people deviate from original hardware the most.

I use WICO 4 way for my classic 4 way vertical cabinet. I use Happ microswitch 8 way for my horizontal cabinet. I use a 3" trackball to play trackball games. It's bigger than the centipede trackball, but that's a compromise I can live with. I hate Nintendo joysticks, so I use the WICO for them and it's an upgrade to me. I have a yoke for star wars. For Robotron, I have to make due with microswitch 8 way and while it's a downgrade, I can't justify the expense of 4" WICO 8 ways.

See, even in an area where I prefer to be authentic, I have to make some sacrifices. CRT's aren't worth it to me. I have a couple, but if they died, I'd replace them with a LCD and not think twice.

Yeah, the joystick was something I actually wasn't expecting to be honest.  I bought a Galaga/Ms Pac reunion cabinet and put an ArcadeSD board in it.  As much as I enjoyed it, something felt off.  I couldn't put my finger on it but the experience was definitely not what I remembered back in 1981, but then again I was eleven so I thought it was probably just the fog of time.  I stumbled across one of those blow up threads on the leaf vs micro controversy and the complaints on micros was what I was experiencing with my cabinet, so I decided to try leafs.  I found an original Ms Pac control panel that I restored and added a period correct leaf fire button to it.  That was the missing ticket.  The games just play better and the feel was back to what I remembered.  I wouldn't have believed it until actually experiencing it.  I will admit that if I had to pick between CRT/LCD or micro vs leaf on classic titles, I would go with an LCD before giving up the leaf controller and buttons.