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Author Topic: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive  (Read 1064 times)

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processedmeat

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Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« on: January 10, 2018, 11:42:58 am »
Hi, I've been playing with GroovyArcade + JPAC + USB flash drive to my arcade cab but my linux experience is limited.  I'm using WinSCP to SSH into the build which makes it easier to upload files but its still a learning curve figuring out where everything is located and how to customize things.

I know the problem with using Windows is that hard powering off of the hard drive will eventually lead to lots of corruption.  Would you get the same issues when using a SSD drive instead?  Is there a different version of Windows that might avoid some of these issues? 

I guess I can just use a smart strip with a momentary button like on my other Mame builds but I guess I was looking for an easy drop in Jamma solution which would require no alteration of the cabinet.

Thanks for looking.

thorr

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 07:24:55 pm »
You should be able to use a power button that performs a graceful shutdown procedure on Windows.  You press it quickly and it is the same as telling Windows to shutdown.  If you hold it down, then after several seconds, it performs a hard/instant power off.  Using SSD won't make any difference.  It has more to do with the type of file system used rather than the physical storage type that determines how much corruption could take place.

JamesTKirk

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 03:06:07 am »
+1 on the PC power button solution. That's how I have my Mame upright (which has a SSD) built. Momentary switch soldered onto the original PC power button. When pressed, windows shuts down gracefully and the PC stays powered off until the button is pressed again. I DONT abruptly turn off the cabinet with a master kill switch like on a power strip or something because, you're right, the OS would get brutalized that way.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 03:08:09 am by JamesTKirk »

Titchgamer

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 07:37:39 am »
Another +1 from me.
Its the only sensible way to do it.

I have the button mounted under the CP so its not accidentally knocked and I have a Black fused spur on the bottom right side of the cabinet for protection and its used as a master power switch.

processedmeat

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 12:09:43 pm »
Thanks for all the replies.  That's what I thought.  I guess I'm stuck with GroovyArcade running Linux off of a USB flash drive for the most comparable Jamma PCB experience.  Or a PiJamma setup...

keilmillerjr

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 12:44:24 pm »
Thanks for all the replies.  That's what I thought.  I guess I'm stuck with GroovyArcade running Linux off of a USB flash drive for the most comparable Jamma PCB experience.  Or a PiJamma setup...

Most machines have a toggle switch in the coin door area to shut down. Stick a monetary switch in its place and use a smart strip inside the cabinet. My machine shuts down super quick with win 10 and ssd.

thorr

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 01:35:11 pm »
After re-reading your first post, I have a few more thoughts.  Any operating system (Linux or Windows) should be shut down properly to avoid corruption.  You could simply hook up a wireless keyboard and mouse and not have to modify your cabinet.  When it is time to shut down, use the keyboard and/or mouse.  Also, if that is not an option, you could create an image of your working PC and if it ever gets corrupt, restore the image.  This works fine as long as you don't make any changes to it.  If you do, first restore the old image to get rid of any corruption, make your changes, and then make a new image.

kujina

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 02:02:06 pm »
I was thinking about a scenario where the mains switch is flipped to turn off a cabinet (with PC) and it is doable but does require an extra thing.

You should be able to do this if you use a UPS, could be a small one like this then hook up a usb cable to pc, install apc PowerChute software and have the software immediately shutdown (gracefully) the PC when the power is cut.

paigeoliver

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 02:34:01 pm »
Thanks for all the replies.  That's what I thought.  I guess I'm stuck with GroovyArcade running Linux off of a USB flash drive for the most comparable Jamma PCB experience.  Or a PiJamma setup...

Most machines have a toggle switch in the coin door area to shut down. Stick a monetary switch in its place and use a smart strip inside the cabinet. My machine shuts down super quick with win 10 and ssd.

Oh how I wish this was actually true. Off hand out of the hundreds of machines I have owned the only ones that ever had power switches inside the coin doors were candy cabinets. Everything else they were on the top, on the back, or down low on the side. I have spent a lot of time in my life relocating power switches so they can be accessed in the front.
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keilmillerjr

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 03:52:10 pm »
Thanks for all the replies.  That's what I thought.  I guess I'm stuck with GroovyArcade running Linux off of a USB flash drive for the most comparable Jamma PCB experience.  Or a PiJamma setup...

Most machines have a toggle switch in the coin door area to shut down. Stick a monetary switch in its place and use a smart strip inside the cabinet. My machine shuts down super quick with win 10 and ssd.

Oh how I wish this was actually true. Off hand out of the hundreds of machines I have owned the only ones that ever had power switches inside the coin doors were candy cabinets. Everything else they were on the top, on the back, or down low on the side. I have spent a lot of time in my life relocating power switches so they can be accessed in the front.

Sorry, let me rephrase that pretending my comment - “out of the ones I have seen”. Regardless, my point still stands that it’s not hard to add a momentary switch in the same location.

paigeoliver

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 05:48:02 pm »
Mine actually just has the tower right behind the coin door so I can hit the button myself!
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Paradroid

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 06:00:18 pm »
I know the problem with using Windows is that hard powering off of the hard drive will eventually lead to lots of corruption.

I have four cabs that run 9 hours every day. They power-up when digital timers switch on at 7 am and then the power cuts at 4 pm when the timers go off.

There is no graceful shutdown at all but I haven't had any issues (aside from high scores not saving if a game was running).

All I did was disable write-behind caching and also set Windows to ignore all startup errors.

This approach may seem primitive but I can assure you that it has worked just fine for me for over 2 years...
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paigeoliver

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 06:43:45 pm »
I know the problem with using Windows is that hard powering off of the hard drive will eventually lead to lots of corruption.

I have four cabs that run 9 hours every day. They power-up when digital timers switch on at 7 am and then the power cuts at 4 pm when the timers go off.

There is no graceful shutdown at all but I haven't had any issues (aside from high scores not saving if a game was running).

All I did was disable write-behind caching and also set Windows to ignore all startup errors.

This approach may seem primitive but I can assure you that it has worked just fine for me for over 2 years...

You can also image the windows drive to a second drive and just recopy back over it once it poops the bed.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

UEDan

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 06:51:49 pm »
If you really want to do hard poweroffs use Deepfreeze or Shadow Defender to discard all changes.

jimmer

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 08:06:30 am »

I have four cabs that run 9 hours every day. They power-up when digital timers switch on at 7 am and then the power cuts at 4 pm when the timers go off.

There is no graceful shutdown at all but I haven't had any issues (aside from high scores not saving if a game was running).

All I did was disable write-behind caching and also set Windows to ignore all startup errors.

This approach may seem primitive but I can assure you that it has worked just fine for me for over 2 years...

Interesting. I've found XP to be very resilient to users flicking the power off, I've just swapped to windows7 so fingers crossed it will be OK too.  Note: I've turned off as many background functions as I know about.

flicking the power off can corrupt the Attract Mode front end (I think due to a couple of files being open). I will try disabling the write cache (hadn't heard of that before) and then do some testing!  It will be hard to do it, but my customers do so I should as well.

Testing results: (will be updated  as more results accrue)
4 successful flick power off
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:45:41 am by jimmer »

processedmeat

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2018, 04:01:40 pm »
Fingers crossed for myself as well.

I eventually did a Win 7 build on a SSD drive. 

Disabled write cache, disabled updates, and setting Windows to ignore startup errors.

So far so good.

Any other things that I can make sure to turn off?

Is there a way to check the ssd drive to see if it is operating properly?  Hoping that it isn't a time bomb waiting to happen.

Osirus23

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2018, 04:28:28 pm »
It's just a PC. Wire up a power switch to turn it on and off and let Windows do its job. Don't overthink things.

jonbenderr

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2018, 06:58:43 pm »
You can actually create a shortcut on your desktop to invoke the shutdownnof windows.

Simple google search will show you how.

I do this and just use the properties to set up a "ctrl-alt-key" command to run the shortcut. Using xpadder, setup a a button combination to execute that same ctrl-alt combination.

Works great and doesn't require any crazy wiring

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Re: Hard power off of Windows 7 on SSD drive
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2018, 09:51:44 pm »
I been flicking the power on & off since the day I built my cab..... then again I'm running in PURE DOS :)

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