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Author Topic: RANDY T from Groovy Game Gear PW reset on website doesn't work no email response  (Read 3553 times)

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jimmer

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Looking up some data on another joystick and spotted this. Fair to say Kowal is not impressed either.

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joyJ8LS.htm

On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

mrclean

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Looking up some data on another joystick and spotted this. Fair to say Kowal is not impressed either.

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joyJ8LS.htm

Not sure what that link is to but it doesn't seem to function properly. Still pursuing on trying to get Wico-like LEAF joysticks made @ UNDER $10.
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Mr. Peabody

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Not sure what that link is to but it doesn't seem to function properly. Still pursuing on trying to get Wico-like LEAF joysticks made @ UNDER $10.

Please. The current ebay NOS cost is fair.

The Kowal links via google give the same result. But someone sells his parts.

https://www.focusattack.com/brands/KOWAL.html

mrclean

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Not sure what that link is to but it doesn't seem to function properly. Still pursuing on trying to get Wico-like LEAF joysticks made @ UNDER $10.

Please. The current ebay NOS cost is fair.

The Kowal links via google give the same result. But someone sells his parts.

https://www.focusattack.com/brands/KOWAL.html

I never said the NOS wico's on eBay weren't fair, if you properly read through the thread you would see that I stated IF they were for my own games / collection I would absolutely have zero problems with shelling out that kind of cash for those joysticks no problem. The fact is I'm building machines for customers / clients. While I don't want to sacrifice on quality thus I'm looking for a cost effective LEAF joystick with a standard mounting pattern. I had dug up links to old inventory from a vendors website of which he distributed after speaking with on the phone to not only Randy T. from GGG but as well as big names in the arcade parts world such as Bob Roberts. Randy claims initially didn't know where the parts were / collecting dust on some shelf...parts are shoddy, yet he wants to hold onto them for research & development, & than claims IF i can get them reproduced he will become my best customer !? Bottom line is that I'm concerned about keeping the BOM or (Build of Materials) down yet I want it to have certain features such as LEAF joysticks on all my builds. Currently Randy T from Groovy Game Gear has them at really my cap @ $20 per unit however they SUCK THAT THEY AREN'T A STANDARD MOUNTING PATTERN. sure you might say just drill holes... Now I need to drill hundreds yes hundreds of holes / and sand already pre-finished control panels which have standard mounting patterns. All that can be resolved if Randy's had a standard mounting pattern. He said he could do it but it would drive the cost way up & his products of the Leaf Pro's are already at my cap. I've already started to inquire with distributors / manufactures / including the original vendor who had those wico LEAF knock-off's for 6$ per stick ! He said the company lost his original molds... I'm still pursing it to help my BOM & perhaps anyone else that's looking for a Wico type feel at a fraction of the cost. 
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mrclean

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I found these in my garage, I'm pretty sure these were the Knock off Wico's I had several years ago...


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RandyT

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That one is a clone.  But it is not the Chinese made one.

The switches seem to be a mash up of Chinese, the originals it came with and an oddball.

behrmr

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I was poking around today and stumbled on this.  This looks like a copy of Randy's leaf pro

http://www.happmart.com/Pro_Details.aspx?id=855&sid=46&px=0

RandyT

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his looks like a copy of Randy's leaf pro

It's not a copy.  But we do use parts from the same manufacturer.  The switches they come with barely qualify as switches, as they have no contacts and are just bent pieces of metal.  Those are the first things to get replaced. We also replace a few more parts on them to aid installation, and increase performance / durability.

The sad thing is there is at least one retailer out there who does none of that, and sells them for nearly the same price as ours.  :-\

pbj

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Africa style joystick?  WTF.    :afro:

mrclean

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Groovy Game Gear is now currently out of stock on the LEAF PRO's I basically ordered as many as I could with what Randy had left in inventory. Despite the fact that I just recently ordered...I think I'm completely done ordering that particular stick due to it mainly not complying with a standard mounting pattern. Also to me the value seems inflated feels more like a $9.95 stick or max $14.95, basically quality of a zippy joystick with leafs as opposed to micro-switches. The skinny shaft, the dimple on the ball top, the overall ball-top size & plastic feel, just doesn't seem right to me . Another familiar feel / look or whatever would be those plug-in arcade games which come with those sticks, they just seem & feel cheap to me. I don't know I suppose I've become so accustom to Wico's (& yes I know drastically different & would be much more comparible to the Dom8's but those are CRAZY inflated IMO). Wico Joysticks are what I've come to love & my quest won't stop on what I'm looking to accomplish. It's to bring a wico-type look & feel while keeping the price extremely competitive. 



Africa style joystick?  WTF.    :afro:

Just in case anyone was wondering the company Happmart which was willing to sell me LEAF PRO type they call it an "Africa Joystick" which looked like this:


 @ $3.00 per joystick it seemed extremely too good to be true & it was..., & yes the quality isn't the same but to warn people the company Happmart is shady as hell. Basically PayPal said we won't send money to that vendor & protected me.

Fast forward.... It was also mentioned to me within a PM without revealing who etc, that some one else already has the wheels set in motion in terms of bringing a wico-type replica to market. It wouldn't be the first time that this has been done (probably not the last either), & hopefully it happens. Really my whole goal is to get a suitable wico replacement while driving the cost way down to not exceed a 20$ price point. I've been communicating with Chinese manufactures putting out feelers to see if it's possible, & I think it is...no I KNOW IT IS.. It's just a matter of me willing to proceed. At some point I'll probably send them a sample etc but I have many other things on my plate as I'm continuing to build various new relationships with several vendors. A wico replica will happen soon weather it stems from me or someone else... I think it's funny that when you mention you are going to bring an item to market several people and this has happened to me before come out of the woodwork & say well I've been working on this you are too late etc etc...
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pbj

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Alright, dude, cash in hand.  Let us know when you have something for sale.


yotsuya

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As long as there are Pac Pros left, you can have all the Leaf Pros... :cheers:
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Mike A

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This is going nowhere.

RandyT

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Also to me the value seems inflated feels more like a $9.95 stick or max $14.95, basically quality of a zippy joystick with leafs as opposed to micro-switches. The skinny shaft, the dimple on the ball top, the overall ball-top size & plastic feel, just doesn't seem right to me .

Heh.  Go to to just about any website which still carries quality leaf switches with gold plated contacts and check the price of them.  The Leaf-Pro has 4 of them, which we have custom made to our design, and we are required to order 5000 at a time just to get them.  There are also several other custom parts which we make and then we have to build, adjust and test each one.  I think if you start adding up parts costs and labor, you'll find that the price is about as low as possible to even make them worth producing.

Yes, we could keep those contact-less bent metal "switches" on there and sell exactly what you received from a Chinese seller for Zippyy prices.  But in that form, they do not meet the quality level people expect when buying from us, so we won't do it.

*edit*

For those who have been waiting, more parts are on the way for the Leaf-Pros, and should be here in about a week. 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 02:01:33 pm by RandyT »

mrclean

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As long as there are Pac Pros left, you can have all the Leaf Pros... :cheers:

For those who have been waiting, more parts are on the way for the Leaf-Pros, and should be here in about a week.

Noticed the Pac Pro's are also now sold out but only 2x were in-stock for a while... I have NOS Wico-Knock off type joysticks that I'm about to send to a vendor / manufacture in china.
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mrclean

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Just curious Randy are you caught up from the back-orders / Holidays yet ? Prior to placing an order what's your projected turn-around time on an in-stock item, just curious. Thanks.
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wweumina

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This is a really interesting thread.

From a cynical point of view:

The OP was originally just after an expedited shipping time.  The decision to ask whether this was possible in a public forum is an interesting one and potentially calls into question the reliability of the vendorís shipping times if it cannot be met. 

The OP has since questioned the value and/or quality of numerous products from the vendor and stated that he was investigating the possibility of undercutting the vendor with his own product.  Even whilst promoting the possibility of becoming competition to the vendor, the OP has requested that the vendor (again publicly) reveal details of his business model including costs and suppliers.

The OP continually raises the possibility of a bulk order if/when the vendor agrees to potential product modifications and possible preferential shipping.  This is the most normal part of the discussion, but would normally be discussed in private.  Given the occasional supply issues, I think most members of the public forum might selfishly prefer bulk orders removing all supply were not forthcoming.

Itís been fascinating to read (and Iím not sure the cynical view is entirely justified) but Iím amazed Randy has responded in the depth that he has and that at some point one or both parties didnít think it was better discussed in private.  The world is changing.

mrclean

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This is a really interesting thread.

Sometimes things happen for a reason, & items get placed into the market because of peoples wants and needs. While I don't argue with you that a portion of this thread could have been hashed out with the vendor directly.

I'm also getting feedback from the public to see how they feel about re-introducing a product that's been missed at least by me for far to long. In that which is an affordable LEAF wico type joystick. I agree that I probably should of started an "interest" thread etc... Bottom line is no one else seems to produce LEAF joysticks right now new other than RANDY & apparently some shady dude which paypal doesn't want me to send my money to.

With that being said I'm going to be persistent in my quest to have another choice of a LEAF joystick that I'm going to bring to market if no one else does. It just simply put really needs to happen. It's a part I need / want / prefer with my builds. These aren't for my personal games (If it was i'd just be buying NOS Wico's period). I'm building about 1x gross per year yes 144 + cabinets for customers & the Wico Joystick is what I prefer, but I can't afford to place 50-60$ NOS wico's inside each cabinet just doesn't make sense for me. That's big money $9k worth of joysticks yep... that's alot right ? I also can't afford to spend time drilling 576 holes into metal panels with the LEAF PROs which aren't a standard mounting pattern + I'm not a huge fan of them anyways. The Dom8's are literally & apologize to those that already read my previous posts, but at the same price point as NOS Wicos simply does not work for me period.

 The thread certainly took a shift from not being able to log in, to me wanting to produce something that I personally simply would benefit from because I have a need for it. Likely along with the entire arcade community of those interested parties if done right. It might not happen right away but it's coming trust me. I won't mention any names, but again a MOD reached out to me telling me that the very product I'm discussing is coming soon...

He had asked me within a PM (I apologize & don't know the rules about posting things from a PM especially from a MOD... so if it's an issue please let me know, but again I'm not mentioning names. Which nothing should be wrong with me reposting this because nothing is wrong in the response & I think others should see this as a positive / sneak peek perhaps)

PM Stated:

Quote
"Anyway, in passing they mentioned that they are working on a Wico replica.  Said they were working with a guy and told me to be on the look out for a release in the future.  Hmm.

Just wondering if you had anything to do with that?   :applaud:  If you did that's great!  I won't mention anything in the forums of course.  If you didn't then I guess it's some hope for your Wico replicas.  Hopefully they will stay on budget.  Just curious if you knew anything." - anonymous

I think that's great and hope it happens ALBEIT from ME, or someone else... I truly don't care so long as it's priced right and done right. But if that was all just hog wash that's fine as well. I just really want these brought to market period.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:05:16 pm by mrclean »
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jimmer

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wweumina is right that there is something odd about the thread title and the turn the thread has taken. I don't feel comfortable contributing to a discussion on undercutting the dominux stick in a thread specifically addressed to Randy!   thankfully there is now a thread somewhere else.
On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

jennifer

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  OMG, Whatever M/clean.... First off Randy is an advertiser here, and as such should be given some respect,
                                          And to his credit he is even here in this thread, trying to address your initial concerns
                                     #2    , Quality comes at a price, Cheap is just that
                                     #3   , Not everyone is on the cheap, and even in bulk,  will pay for quality... (usually with a quanity discount)
                                     #4   , Go to china ?... I feel jenn doesn't even need to validate that point.
                                     #5   , Bob Roberts wasn't the cats meow as a gold standard supplier, The guy who didn't do online credit transfers, So ya, mail a check, and wait .
                                     #6   , Your design sounds off, and Del is right, (That's for a undercut wood, or metal C/p)
                                     #7   , You should know your suppliers before you commit to large orders
                                     #8   , And finally Dr/evil, go pet your cat out in this glorious fab shop of doom of yours... Because results speak volumes. 

mrclean

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  OMG, Whatever M/clean.... First off Randy is an advertiser here, and as such should be given some respect,
                                          And to his credit he is even here in this thread, trying to address your initial concerns
                                     #2    , Quality comes at a price, Cheap is just that
                                     #3   , Not everyone is on the cheap, and even in bulk,  will pay for quality... (usually with a quanity discount)
                                     #4   , Go to china ?... I feel jenn doesn't even need to validate that point.
                                     #5   , Bob Roberts wasn't the cats meow as a gold standard supplier, The guy who didn't do online credit transfers, So ya, mail a check, and wait .
                                     #6   , Your design sounds off, and Del is right, (That's for a undercut wood, or metal C/p)
                                     #7   , You should know your suppliers before you commit to large orders
                                     #8   , And finally Dr/evil, go pet your cat out in this glorious fab shop of doom of yours... Because results speak volumes.

#1, First off mrclean is (what I consider) a long time forum member here I'll be celebrating my 12th year on BYOAC in I think two days ?... & I'm doing just that....I'm entitled to an opinion in which directly relates to a vendors website / turn around time as well as product which he's selling & what I consider inferior based on the design for one. My intentions were never to insult Randy directly If that's the case I apologize. I'm just pointing out what I consider some flaws in the end users experience as well as the product he's selling.

#2 I couldn't agree more, see #1.

#3 I agree with you that not everyone is cheap... When considering a build of materials on a larger scale every dollar counts and is amplified. see #2

#4 Did I say I'm physically going to China ? if I did... I meant to say I'm dealing with negotiating & building relationships with various vendors in China to see if I can provide another LEAF Joystick choice. Yes many of the products sold by vendors in this hobby the parts come directly from "China". I've already noticed a few vendors here re-branding parts they are buying in China, some don't even hide it at all with the exception of increasing the price. I'll always be a collector & work on my own personal games & when available will always use OG parts in my dedicated machines & PAY for them respectively. However I also need to focus on profit margins as a business & in doing so I might also have a product that I will also bring to market somewhat unintentionally. I might purchase 1k joysticks have them custom made from China & not even offer them I really don't know. Arcade parts that SUZO / HAPP is a major company who come to mind as well as many other parts which are likely inside your very machine are mostly imported from China. You know what other product comes to mind & again you will have certain fanboys as well as people that don't care for them but the iPhone... yeah *designed in California but majority of the parts come from southeast Asia, and is only assembled at Foxconn in Taiwan (which wouldn't you know it those other knock off wico's came from). Even Randy within this very thread stated & admitted about him importing that cheap $3 Joystick and using some of the parts etc...

5# I love this one as perhaps you never really were fully immersed with dealing with one of the best assets to the hobby. nor did you apparently deal with Bob Roberts because had you of ... he was so trust worthy that he shipped product prior to receiving payment known as "cross shipping" if you were on his good list. I'm sad he's no longer part of the arcade community. For you to say:
Quote
Bob Roberts wasn't the cats meow as a gold standard supplier
Is a flat out insult. Not only did he provide free knowledge to help other people his prices were beyond fair & also carried certain products which no one else did at the time, + gave away free gifts & moon pies.... yeah he sure wasn't the cats meow.

#6  Your reply sounds off, My design / intentions is to at this point send a NOS Wico joystick (again this is very bias but I absolutely personally love Wico's to me they are incredible & I wish I hate to keep reiterating that an inexpensive repro existed which matched it's quality. Again not mentioning beyond this but apparently via a PM from a MOD someone else claims to already have the wheels in motion on exactly what I'm looking to do or wasn't sure it was me etc... All I say is I hope that if some one beats me to the punch it's done right; both quality & price point which is collectively what my focus is. But it doesn't mean I'm going to flat out stop trying or not being persistent about inquiring on what it will take to get a proper wico replica to market at a reasonable cost. Many people make various parts to rebuild original sticks. I have news for you the NOS parts etc.. That's eventually going to dry up. The thread at this point should be seen as a positive in possibly bringing another option to the market which I think it needs. No matter my efforts of how much money or the quality you will always have a conflict of interest, I've already prepared my self for that.

#7 agree, you should know your vendors, part of this thread describes just that.... which is why this thread took a turn & they do say "Necessity is the mother of invention".. Thus why I never initially intended on attempting on bringing a product to market but It might just happen by default. Also directly agree with you again refer back to #4 where I say "dealing with negotiating & building relationships with various vendors in China" (which was already previously mentioned in this thread prior to you posting). I need / want specific parts for my business which no one seems to offer in bulk & exactly what I need: price point nor exact product. Again & I hate to keep reiterating things I've already mentioned in the thread but sure I can buy NOS Wico's for $54 shipped. But for one that source will be gone eventually. Or I can just purchase re-built Wico's.. Those would be fine solutions for my own personal games. Again I just want NEW LEAF Wico's at what I consider to be a reasonable cost for bulk purchasing.... it's plausible I know it is. 

8#Unnecessary comment, so I'll give you a nicer more subtle one in return... I like your avatar, I'm a huge Disney fan, & if anything I'm a dog person. P2 of#8
Quote
results speak volumes
You are certainly correct with that 100% couldn't agree with you more.
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pbj

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Alright, dude, cash in hand.  Let us know when you have something for sale.

 :cheers:

jennifer

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  Your business model seems a bit archaic,.... Go get some pie at the truck stop, and pick up a copy of USA today and check out the stock market, and news on import tariffs, and particularly that story on how iPhone building a plant in the states.  innovation is back baby..."Made in USA" 

  
 

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