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Author Topic: RANDY T from Groovy Game Gear PW reset on website doesn't work no email response  (Read 3692 times)

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mrclean

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LONG TIME BYOAC User.... Just trying to reach out to RANDY T from Groovygamegear.com no email response, no PM response, Website forgot my password it's not sending my forgot password information. Any one have his # where I can call and place an order on phone etc ?

Thanks !
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Bengaz

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Be careful mate, People may see you as confused lol ;D
(Check Robotron thread above lol^)

mrclean

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Not confused. Looking to make purchases from a vendor but having difficulties in doing so. I just wish he was more responsive I had noticed he was logged in / on this site today, not sure if he read this thread, but again I did send PMs including my personal cell, & as well as Emails. I need to see if he can guarantee me delivery by this Friday / Sat. The website really states 2-3 day shipping however the last time i purchased from him which was only 2-3 weeks ago it took me over 1 week to get my stuff granted that was during the holidays not sure if that affected anything. If not no worries I'll simply have no choice & go to a different vendor by days end as I really need various stuff asap.
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Bengaz

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Not confused. Looking to make purchases from a vendor but having difficulties in doing so. I just wish he was more responsive I had noticed he was logged in / on this site today, not sure if he read this thread, but again I did send PMs including my personal cell, & as well as Emails. I need to see if he can guarantee me delivery by this Friday / Sat. The website really states 2-3 day shipping however the last time i purchased from him which was only 2-3 weeks ago it took me over 1 week to get my stuff granted that was during the holidays not sure if that affected anything. If not no worries I'll simply have no choice & go to a different vendor by days end as I really need various stuff asap.
Mate I'm in EXACTLY the same boat, need few questions answered before I order... :cheers:

Mike A

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Just post in the virtual reality thread. I think he lives there. ;D

opt2not

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Be careful mate, People may see you as confused lol ;D
(Check Robotron thread above lol^)
:lol

Well you certainly did seem ďspecialĒ. Someone shared his web store and you responded asking him for trades.

Rather than being a snarky noob, you could have said I have some questions to ask before ordering. Or better yet you could have asked the community your questions if it was indeed about his products, there is a lot of knowledge here to tap into.

But yet you chose the ---meecrob----side. Quality member right here.

Bengaz

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Be careful mate, People may see you as confused lol ;D
(Check Robotron thread above lol^)
:lol

Well you certainly did seem ďspecialĒ. Someone shared his web store and you responded asking him for trades.

Rather than being a snarky noob, you could have said I have some questions to ask before ordering. Or better yet you could have asked the community your questions if it was indeed about his products, there is a lot of knowledge here to tap into.

But yet you chose the ---meecrob----side. Quality member right here.
Get back to work and stop the name calling lad, is this really worth ALL your effort/input?

DeLuSioNal29

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Guys, give it a rest please.

I sent you a PM with the contact info for Randy T.

DeL
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:27:38 pm by DeLuSioNal29 »
Stop by my Youtube channel and leave a comment:

Bengaz

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Guys, give it a rest please.

I sent you a PM with the contact info for Randy T.

DeL
Thanks for that, tried the GGG one will try other ta!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:28:03 pm by DeLuSioNal29 »

opt2not

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Guys, give it a rest please.

I sent you a PM with the contact info for Randy T.

DeL

Del, the over-modding of the forum is getting bananas lately. I take it youíre the one who locked down the Ond thread?
I was annoyed before when you started retro editing all your posts from before you became a mod, but now itís like you canít say anything without it being all butterflies and lollipops. What gives?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:28:26 pm by DeLuSioNal29 »

DeLuSioNal29

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Del, the over-modding of the forum is getting bananas lately. I take it youíre the one who locked down the Ond thread?
I was annoyed before when you started retro editing all your posts from before you became a mod, but now itís like you canít say anything without it being all butterflies and lollipops. What gives?
Nope, that topic locking wasn't my doing.

DeL
Stop by my Youtube channel and leave a comment:

opt2not

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Well my point still stands. Anything remotely negative seems to be under a microscope these days.
Though itís inconsistent since thereís still a lot of banter from other older members. Just wondering why my posts got deleted. I didnít violate any forum rules. There wasnít any direct name calling.
I wasnít the one carrying over a conversation from another post into this one...aka spam.

mrclean

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Del...Any ways I still need help if you can also PM me i'd appreciate it... I need to really talk to Randy to place an order to see if he can guarantee me delivery by this Friday / Sat... nothing on my end was accomplished yet as I'm still unable to even place an order regardless of getting into contact with him. Any way I can have his info so that I can talk to him prior to & ultimately make my purchase ? Again I'm really looking to build relationships with vendors as I anticipate on buying in bulk. For what it's worth I've been on this forum for over 10-years hopefully a BYOAC member can assist & I'm able to get in touch with him at some point today.
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yotsuya

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Del...Any ways I still need help if you can also PM me i'd appreciate it... I need to really talk to Randy to place an order to see if he can guarantee me delivery by this Friday / Sat... nothing on my end was accomplished yet as I'm still unable to even place an order regardless of getting into contact with him. Any way I can have his info so that I can talk to him prior to & ultimately make my purchase ? Again I'm really looking to build relationships with vendors as I anticipate on buying in bulk. For what it's worth I've been on this forum for over 10-years hopefully a BYOAC member can assist & I'm able to get in touch with him at some point today.

How have you been - itís been a while!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

mrclean

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How have you been - itís been a while!

Yeah man I've been good... glad to see sites still running strong.

I finally did get an email which reset my password... I (somewhat reluctantly only because due to when I need them) placed my order today prior to really having a full conversation with Randy. Although in all fairness he did state in the email with the pw reset that he's still "backed up" from the holidays. I'm not sure if he can deliver my units when I need them... we shall see. I prey that's the case as I have several other people counting on me. I'm not sure if it matters or not but I'm looking to start purchasing periodically / & in bulk. I'm looking to build a solid relationship with various vendors etc. I had inquired about him changing a product to suit my needs. I'm looking at the GGG Pro Leaf Joysticks, my only gripe with them is they don't have standard mounting pattern for my control panels as would a Wico / Happ. He said it would be expensive to change it ?, but I really don't want to be drilling extra holes into panels when STANDARD holes are already pre-drilled / present. I bit the bullet and regardless ordered a bunch of them for the time being but once I go through that inventory I really ideally would want a standard mounting pattern thus wouldn't need to drill additional holes. I'm going to perhaps soon start a seperate thread about that... perhaps it might get resolved in the future. I know about the Dominux8, but doesn't work for me from a BOM price point perspective $20 is my sweet spot per unit. At the listed $46.95 for the Dominux8+ Tax + Shipping I might as well just slap on real wico's at that point.

Goal...
STANDARD Mounting Pattern !
Leaf Joystick
20$ per unit max.


   
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eds1275

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In the past when I have gone to replace a joystick that didn't have the right mounting holes, I just added new holes to the mounting plate instead of adding more to the panel. Not sure if that's an option for you, but I've had no issues with it.

pbj

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You need guaranteed delivery by Saturday....


Want to know how I know that this story isn't going to end well?

 :lol

Ginsu Victim

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Hey mrclean! Good to see a familiar face. :)
(Pretty much everyone here is familiar, though, so I don't know why I said that.)

DeLuSioNal29

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In the past when I have gone to replace a joystick that didn't have the right mounting holes, I just added new holes to the mounting plate instead of adding more to the panel. Not sure if that's an option for you, but I've had no issues with it.
+1 Universal plate can be had here:  https://paradisearcadeshop.com/paradise-universal-plates/1175-universal-arcade-joystick-adapter-plate.html

Also, GGG makes a modified Happ Super 8-way with leafs: 
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=403
Stop by my Youtube channel and leave a comment:

mrclean

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You need guaranteed delivery by Saturday....

Want to know how I know that this story isn't going to end well?

 :lol

I suppose spill the beans ? 

Hey mrclean! Good to see a familiar face. :)
(Pretty much everyone here is familiar, though, so I don't know why I said that.)

Yeah man it's been a long long time... I pop in / lurk sometimes... good to see you.


Also, GGG makes a modified Happ Super 8-way with leafs: 
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=403

I really appreciate the links. I've browsed many vendor sites... Randy's got it really close with the Leaf Pro.

Price Point
Size
Feel
** I just wish it was a standard mounting pattern.

It's all about keeping the Build of Materials down. 5$ here 20$ there really adds up if you build over +100 cabinets per year ;-) I don't care for the battops. I want a round / ball top / leaf / standard mounting pattern @ or under $20. I think I want Dominux8's at a 20$ price point but would settle for the True Leaf Pro's if he can fix the standard mounting pattern issue on them.

I'm really surprised no one can build spec' Repro Wico's at a reasonable cost ... I coulda sworn when Bob Roberts was around he had Wico Knock off's which again just switching out the dull shaft/ball they came with to an actual wico stick and on the top of the control panel you had no idea / feel was virtually identical to them & if I remember correctly the price point was perfect. To me for the most part the Wico's are the best Joystick for most "80's" games on the planet. People build repro parts for Wico's etc... They would sell like crazy if you can make a look & feel of an original Wico @ a $20 price point.   
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 04:49:23 pm by mrclean »
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behrmr

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I would be willing to bet you could have a local fabricator make you your own leaf pro to standard bolt pattern adapter pretty inexpensively, especially since you would need 100+.  The universal plate is just that but there would be a lot less drilling and fabbing needed for a single purpose adapter. 

Just curious if you're a builder that does 100 cabinets a year do you have any problems with customers with leaf sticks calling because leafs need to be cleaned or adjusted?  I would be worried with the leaf pros in the field since 1) they're leafs and going to need some tweaking at some point and 2) end-user serviceability since the tabs where the connector attaches to the switches are pretty easy to bend and break if not handled properly.   

yotsuya

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Have you looked at the Pac Pros? I like those better than the Leaf Pros, and they use the Happ pattern.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

pbj

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Just curious if you're a builder that does 100 cabinets a year do you have any problems with customers with leaf sticks calling because leafs need to be cleaned or adjusted? 

"Adjusted?"  ---fudgesicle--- no.  You charge them $100 for a replacement, wipe off the old one, and stick it in the next cabinet.


mrclean

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Have you looked at the Pac Pros? I like those better than the Leaf Pros, and they use the Happ pattern.

I considered the Pac-Pro's but they sit a bit too low to the control panel, the ball top seems smaller no doubt good if your exclusively playing 4-way games, specifically the Pac's etc... But I would prefer the height of the Leaf Pro, as well as the 8-way compatibility. The wico ball tops 8-way again to reiterate is really the best of the best at least in my humble opinion for pretty much majority of all the 80's classics... I just wish someone could faithfully reproduce them at a price point. Dominux8's for almost the same price as NOS Wico's ?... just look on eBay currently right now and they are $51+shipping for NOS wico's. If they were for my own personal games without a doubt Wico's all day long even at a 50$ price point doesn't matter to me, but I'm more focused on building units for the masses but trying to keep costs down with keeping authentic feel where it should be.

I almost feel like sending a NOS Wico to china / manufacture and see if they can re-produce them at a cheap price point, I'm willing to bet yes. Any one have any connections in that regard please PM me. I came across an old KLOV thread from almost 10 years ago when I was a member, a link was given to a Chinese knock off leaf joystick etc... to give you an idea of price point they were $8 or if buying in bulk $6. & That was being sold by a retailer... I need to see if somehow someway I can get them reproduced again. Or getting in touch with someone that's sitting on a bulk amount of them. Again I'm almost certain these are the same ones that Bob Roberts used to sell on his site as well. This is what they looked like:



"Adjusted?"  ---fudgesicle--- no.  You charge them $100 for a replacement, wipe off the old one, and stick it in the next cabinet.

Not exactly how to build good relationships with customers, but an unethical way to increase revenue.
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thorr

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Couldn't you just cut a metal square to the standard size, drill the standard holes in the corners, drill the holes for the leaf pro, and drill the center hole?  Then mount the leaf pro to the plate and the plate to the cabinet.  It would require a bit more time and very slightly more money, but otherwise might work.

As an aside, the Dominux8 in the short throw metal configuration is fantastic.  It just costs a lot more than most joysticks which makes sense since it is probably lower volume than needed to get the price down.

opt2not

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Would any of the Universal Mounting Plates by ParadiseArcade work for your needs?

eds1275

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Would any of the Universal Mounting Plates by ParadiseArcade work for your needs?

Again I think that the price pushes it out of his target price point.

Couldn't you just cut a metal square to the standard size, drill the standard holes in the corners, drill the holes for the leaf pro, and drill the center hole?  Then mount the leaf pro to the plate and the plate to the cabinet.  It would require a bit more time and very slightly more money, but otherwise might work.

I think getting a local metal fabricator to do this in bulk would be the cheapest way to get it done without spending a lot of time in the garage plus they've got the tools to make it look like it wasn't a home job.

mrclean

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I'm not looking for an adapter plate at this point for Randy's existing product... They need to be designed from the ground up.

I don't want to give any one hopes, and perhaps I'm the only one that wants a costly effective solution to the Wico's but I've gotten in touch with the original vendor who made the "knock off wico's". Ironically enough he apparently knew & sold to Bob Roberts as well as to Randy from GGG. He stated that they were of the same "molds" etc. It would be a grommet centering leaf joystick under $20 & *possibly less, & perform & feel pretty much spot on just like a Wico. I'm just trying to get preliminary information from him to see if it's remotely possible even prior to getting an interest list etc. Again if that doesn't pan out if anyone has experience with alibaba or of the likes with a Chinese manufacture to keep costs down please PM me.   
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Ginsu Victim

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Remember the terrible condition Wicos I sent you years ago? :lol
(At least they were free)

mrclean

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Remember the terrible condition Wicos I sent you years ago? :lol
(At least they were free)

ahhh memories....I still got em' lol
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Ginsu Victim

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Remember the terrible condition Wicos I sent you years ago? :lol
(At least they were free)

ahhh memories....I still got em' lol

At least I cleaned 'em first. ;)

(Wow, I just looked....that was a decade ago...)

opt2not

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I don't want to give any one hopes, and perhaps I'm the only one that wants a costly effective solution to the Wico's but I've gotten in touch with the original vendor who made the "knock off wico's".
Let us know how this goes. It sounds interesting.

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jimmer

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I'm not looking for an adapter plate at this point for Randy's existing product... They need to be designed from the ground up.

I don't want to give any one hopes, and perhaps I'm the only one that wants a costly effective solution to the Wico's but I've gotten in touch with the original vendor who made the "knock off wico's". Ironically enough he apparently knew & sold to Bob Roberts as well as to Randy from GGG. He stated that they were of the same "molds" etc. It would be a grommet centering leaf joystick under $20 & *possibly less, & perform & feel pretty much spot on just like a Wico. I'm just trying to get preliminary information from him to see if it's remotely possible even prior to getting an interest list etc. Again if that doesn't pan out if anyone has experience with alibaba or of the likes with a Chinese manufacture to keep costs down please PM me.   

There I was, about to tell you that if they were $20 in the past it was because someone in china made a batch of 10,000. And then you come up with the vendor (presumably in USA)* . 

Anyway, put me down for 200 as long as they have 38mm red balls.

note: I currently make and sell my own grommet leaf stick for $100 each (but only as part of a control panel)



* although that doesn't rule out it being a batch of 10000 from china

On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

SNAAKE

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 :dunno

ordered some red t-molding from GGG the other day and it was shipped in 2 days..cant complain

DeLuSioNal29

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Have you looked at the Pac Pros? I like those better than the Leaf Pros, and they use the Happ pattern.
I considered the Pac-Pro's but they sit a bit too low to the control panel...
That's because they are meant for metal control panels only unless you route out from underneath.

DeL
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I don't want to give any one hopes, and perhaps I'm the only one that wants a costly effective solution to the Wico's but I've gotten in touch with the original vendor who made the "knock off wico's". Ironically enough he apparently knew & sold to Bob Roberts as well as to Randy from GGG.

Heh.  If you are referring to the ones sold by a company in PA, I ordered 100 of them many years ago.  The bases were shoddily molded and warped, the shafts rattled in the grommets like a rat-tail in a rain barrel, the balls looked awful and the switches, while the only thing available at the time, were grossly inferior to the ones we now have custom made.  Most of them were molded with the leaves off by about 15 degrees to each other so that the contacts barely touched.  Bare copper contacts came pre-tarnished.  The sticks never made it to the store, as I couldn't bring myself to sell them to someone (I have a conscience.)  So I ate the loss and shelved the lot of them.  Probably still here somewhere, but I haven't seem them for years.  If you are talking to someone else off-shore who claims we purchased these types of sticks from them, they are just lying to you, and throwing around the GGG name in hopes of giving them some credibility.

As for getting a custom design from China, I wish you luck (seriously, not being facetious.)  My experience has been that unless you can commit to thousands of units and pay up-front, or it's an item they believe they can sell 250K+ of, they won't tool up for it.  And, with existing molds/products, if you aren't willing to foot the expense for the changes in tooling (which they won't even do if it's a standard product they already sell by the ton) it's unlikely to happen.  The last custom part I had made required a 5000pc order, and that was from existing tooling, only a different color.  Also, plan on doing all the QC yourself.  You WILL have a scrap pile which you will not be credited for.  And if you have someone who is eager to start up production from an old mold, and offers you a price which seems too good to be true, be very cautious.  You could very well end up with something like I described above.  And finally, don't send them more money than you are willing to lose. Dealing with an unknown entity in China is a gamble in the truest sense of the word.  I have been doing business with some companies there for over a decade, and still run into issues from time to time.

The issue with the lost password function is your ISP, who is blocking the store's emails.  The only way I am able to reset passwords for folks is by inserting my own email address in their account and using the forgotten password function on the site, changing it back once the new password is received.  Very time consuming, but it works every time.  As for the order, as I stated in the email before you ordered, we were deluged with orders after the first of the year (and it's continuing), and there is no way we could meet your delivery schedule.  Too many people ahead of you, and it would be unfair to make others wait longer than they already have.  I have to hand-build and test each of the units you ordered, so the order is in my manufacturing queue with the many other items I must personally build.  T-Molding or off-the-shelf parts tend to go out more quickly.  I wish the situation could be different, but there are realities at play, and that includes the week+ of -20F weather which cost us both a water heater and a boiler, which we had to deal with concurrently.  We also had about 3+ft of snow to move, which has now turned to water/ice.  But we have started working on your order, in spite of these difficulties and the other orders we are working diligently to get shipped. 

The hardest part of of what I do is having to tell someone "I can't".  It's not something I take lightly, so when I do, it should be considered factual.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:52:22 am by RandyT »

pbj

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Pwnt

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Heh.  If you are referring to the ones sold by a company in PA, I ordered 100 of them many years ago.  The bases were shoddily molded and warped, the shafts rattled in the grommets like a rat-tail in a rain barrel, the balls looked awful and the switches, while the only thing available at the time, were grossly inferior to the ones we now have custom made.  Most of them were molded with the leaves off by about 15 degrees to each other so that the contacts barely touched.  Bare copper contacts came pre-tarnished.  The sticks never made it to the store, as I couldn't bring myself to sell them to someone (I have a conscience.)  So I ate the loss and shelved the lot of them.  Probably still here somewhere, but I haven't seem them for years. 

I'll tell you what If you happen to find those +/-100 joysticks sitting collecting dust I'd be interested in possibly taking all of them despite that you say you don't want to "sell" them because of quality control & you already ate the loss and shelved the lot. I'm seriously interested in those very joysticks. I'm pretty sure I have 2 of them in my garage, of which I'm considering sending back to the original vendor to see if they can have another run. If it's the same ones that Bob Roberts had on his website which I have good reason to believe they were I personally disagree & think they are perfectly suitable for going into games. Again I was purchasing my units directly from Bob, who apparently they came from the same vendor, I'm not sure if you had a different batch etc... But to me again when I switched out the ball tops for NOS Wico's they were very much from the top of the panel almost unmistakably like Wico's. Seriously since you didn't ship out my order yet... & If you find those older joysticks send a few for me to test out to insure they are the same as the ones that Bob Roberts used to sell & If that's the case I can assure you I'll take ALL of your remaining inventory on those dusty shoddy parts that is doing you no good. I know cost on them to the vendor was $3.50 and Bob Roberts payed $5.00 per stick and I believe If I remember correctly he charged I think like $12. The vendor still lists on his website which I can post a link that if you purchased 20x of them they were $5.99ea pretty amazing IMO.

Either way if you can't find them I'm seriously considering having that type of stick made again, a cost effective leaf wico type joystick.

Getting back to your product of the Groovy Game Gear Leaf Pro I really wish you can keep the cost a bit down if I were to buy more in bulk as most other vendors in this hobby will do. I also wish that in the future they would have it work with a "standard" mounting pattern as I think all of your other joysticks have the ability. It's counter productive for me to be drilling extra holes into panels etc. Going forward I can't really spend my cap on customer joysticks for my builds in addition to having to do extra unnecessary work of drilling extra holes. Don't get me wrong the Dominux8ô Premium Leaf-Switch Joystick is probably more in line to what I'm looking in terms of products you carry but @ the cost of nearly a NOS Wico makes zero sense to me. Everybody has a price point & feel / look of the product that suits them best the Wico like knock off's is what makes the most sense for what I'm looking for.
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I'll tell you what If you happen to find those +/-100 joysticks sitting collecting dust I'd be interested in possibly taking all of them ...

If I still have them, they are nothing but parts now.  Before we had our own gold plated switches made, the switches were removed, sorted, and the good ones extensively cleaned and adjusted for our leaf buttons way early on.  The grommets were ridiculously stiff for a short joystick, but they still have some value in my parts collection for different uses, including R&D.  I couldn't buy them alone today for what I paid for the sticks, so I have no interest in selling the parts.

Quote
Either way if you can't find them I'm seriously considering having that type of stick made again, a cost effective leaf wico type joystick.

I think others would agree with me that you should.  Perhaps they can update the parts and processes to come up with something better this time around.  The only way you will know is if you try.

We all want what we want at the lowest price possible.  That last word is the key.  It's not 40 years ago when I purchased my first real WICO for $10.  It's also not 10 years ago with regard to doing business with China.  As their processes and parts improved, so have the costs risen accordingly.  If the original manufacturer ceased production, you have to consider that there was a reason.  Insufficient demand, or skyrocketing parts costs are very good possibilities.  The WICO design is a niche item, so the economies of scale are not even close to the other types of sticks on the market.  It'll be a tough haul, but you may be able to pull it off.  And if you can, I will likely be your best customer.  ;)

As for the pricing on our products, if we can't at least make minimum wage for the labor, once parts costs are considered, then I would be doing myself a disservice by even offering the item for sale.  Some of our items don't even do that, but we continue to sell them as a service to the community, to fill a void where needed.  Creating something special which requires a $20,000 mold, to satisfy the demand for a couple hundred units per year which yield low margins is financial suicide.  Thus there are limits to what we are able to do where requests for custom parts are made.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 01:04:50 pm by RandyT »

jimmer

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Looking up some data on another joystick and spotted this. Fair to say Kowal is not impressed either.

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joyJ8LS.htm

On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

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Looking up some data on another joystick and spotted this. Fair to say Kowal is not impressed either.

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joyJ8LS.htm

Not sure what that link is to but it doesn't seem to function properly. Still pursuing on trying to get Wico-like LEAF joysticks made @ UNDER $10.
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Mr. Peabody

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Not sure what that link is to but it doesn't seem to function properly. Still pursuing on trying to get Wico-like LEAF joysticks made @ UNDER $10.

Please. The current ebay NOS cost is fair.

The Kowal links via google give the same result. But someone sells his parts.

https://www.focusattack.com/brands/KOWAL.html

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Not sure what that link is to but it doesn't seem to function properly. Still pursuing on trying to get Wico-like LEAF joysticks made @ UNDER $10.

Please. The current ebay NOS cost is fair.

The Kowal links via google give the same result. But someone sells his parts.

https://www.focusattack.com/brands/KOWAL.html

I never said the NOS wico's on eBay weren't fair, if you properly read through the thread you would see that I stated IF they were for my own games / collection I would absolutely have zero problems with shelling out that kind of cash for those joysticks no problem. The fact is I'm building machines for customers / clients. While I don't want to sacrifice on quality thus I'm looking for a cost effective LEAF joystick with a standard mounting pattern. I had dug up links to old inventory from a vendors website of which he distributed after speaking with on the phone to not only Randy T. from GGG but as well as big names in the arcade parts world such as Bob Roberts. Randy claims initially didn't know where the parts were / collecting dust on some shelf...parts are shoddy, yet he wants to hold onto them for research & development, & than claims IF i can get them reproduced he will become my best customer !? Bottom line is that I'm concerned about keeping the BOM or (Build of Materials) down yet I want it to have certain features such as LEAF joysticks on all my builds. Currently Randy T from Groovy Game Gear has them at really my cap @ $20 per unit however they SUCK THAT THEY AREN'T A STANDARD MOUNTING PATTERN. sure you might say just drill holes... Now I need to drill hundreds yes hundreds of holes / and sand already pre-finished control panels which have standard mounting patterns. All that can be resolved if Randy's had a standard mounting pattern. He said he could do it but it would drive the cost way up & his products of the Leaf Pro's are already at my cap. I've already started to inquire with distributors / manufactures / including the original vendor who had those wico LEAF knock-off's for 6$ per stick ! He said the company lost his original molds... I'm still pursing it to help my BOM & perhaps anyone else that's looking for a Wico type feel at a fraction of the cost. 
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mrclean

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I found these in my garage, I'm pretty sure these were the Knock off Wico's I had several years ago...


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RandyT

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That one is a clone.  But it is not the Chinese made one.

The switches seem to be a mash up of Chinese, the originals it came with and an oddball.

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I was poking around today and stumbled on this.  This looks like a copy of Randy's leaf pro

http://www.happmart.com/Pro_Details.aspx?id=855&sid=46&px=0

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his looks like a copy of Randy's leaf pro

It's not a copy.  But we do use parts from the same manufacturer.  The switches they come with barely qualify as switches, as they have no contacts and are just bent pieces of metal.  Those are the first things to get replaced. We also replace a few more parts on them to aid installation, and increase performance / durability.

The sad thing is there is at least one retailer out there who does none of that, and sells them for nearly the same price as ours.  :-\

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Africa style joystick?  WTF.    :afro:

mrclean

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Groovy Game Gear is now currently out of stock on the LEAF PRO's I basically ordered as many as I could with what Randy had left in inventory. Despite the fact that I just recently ordered...I think I'm completely done ordering that particular stick due to it mainly not complying with a standard mounting pattern. Also to me the value seems inflated feels more like a $9.95 stick or max $14.95, basically quality of a zippy joystick with leafs as opposed to micro-switches. The skinny shaft, the dimple on the ball top, the overall ball-top size & plastic feel, just doesn't seem right to me . Another familiar feel / look or whatever would be those plug-in arcade games which come with those sticks, they just seem & feel cheap to me. I don't know I suppose I've become so accustom to Wico's (& yes I know drastically different & would be much more comparible to the Dom8's but those are CRAZY inflated IMO). Wico Joysticks are what I've come to love & my quest won't stop on what I'm looking to accomplish. It's to bring a wico-type look & feel while keeping the price extremely competitive. 



Africa style joystick?  WTF.    :afro:

Just in case anyone was wondering the company Happmart which was willing to sell me LEAF PRO type they call it an "Africa Joystick" which looked like this:


 @ $3.00 per joystick it seemed extremely too good to be true & it was..., & yes the quality isn't the same but to warn people the company Happmart is shady as hell. Basically PayPal said we won't send money to that vendor & protected me.

Fast forward.... It was also mentioned to me within a PM without revealing who etc, that some one else already has the wheels set in motion in terms of bringing a wico-type replica to market. It wouldn't be the first time that this has been done (probably not the last either), & hopefully it happens. Really my whole goal is to get a suitable wico replacement while driving the cost way down to not exceed a 20$ price point. I've been communicating with Chinese manufactures putting out feelers to see if it's possible, & I think it is...no I KNOW IT IS.. It's just a matter of me willing to proceed. At some point I'll probably send them a sample etc but I have many other things on my plate as I'm continuing to build various new relationships with several vendors. A wico replica will happen soon weather it stems from me or someone else... I think it's funny that when you mention you are going to bring an item to market several people and this has happened to me before come out of the woodwork & say well I've been working on this you are too late etc etc...
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Alright, dude, cash in hand.  Let us know when you have something for sale.


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As long as there are Pac Pros left, you can have all the Leaf Pros... :cheers:
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This is going nowhere.

RandyT

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Also to me the value seems inflated feels more like a $9.95 stick or max $14.95, basically quality of a zippy joystick with leafs as opposed to micro-switches. The skinny shaft, the dimple on the ball top, the overall ball-top size & plastic feel, just doesn't seem right to me .

Heh.  Go to to just about any website which still carries quality leaf switches with gold plated contacts and check the price of them.  The Leaf-Pro has 4 of them, which we have custom made to our design, and we are required to order 5000 at a time just to get them.  There are also several other custom parts which we make and then we have to build, adjust and test each one.  I think if you start adding up parts costs and labor, you'll find that the price is about as low as possible to even make them worth producing.

Yes, we could keep those contact-less bent metal "switches" on there and sell exactly what you received from a Chinese seller for Zippyy prices.  But in that form, they do not meet the quality level people expect when buying from us, so we won't do it.

*edit*

For those who have been waiting, more parts are on the way for the Leaf-Pros, and should be here in about a week. 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 02:01:33 pm by RandyT »

mrclean

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As long as there are Pac Pros left, you can have all the Leaf Pros... :cheers:

For those who have been waiting, more parts are on the way for the Leaf-Pros, and should be here in about a week.

Noticed the Pac Pro's are also now sold out but only 2x were in-stock for a while... I have NOS Wico-Knock off type joysticks that I'm about to send to a vendor / manufacture in china.
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mrclean

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Just curious Randy are you caught up from the back-orders / Holidays yet ? Prior to placing an order what's your projected turn-around time on an in-stock item, just curious. Thanks.
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wweumina

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This is a really interesting thread.

From a cynical point of view:

The OP was originally just after an expedited shipping time.  The decision to ask whether this was possible in a public forum is an interesting one and potentially calls into question the reliability of the vendorís shipping times if it cannot be met. 

The OP has since questioned the value and/or quality of numerous products from the vendor and stated that he was investigating the possibility of undercutting the vendor with his own product.  Even whilst promoting the possibility of becoming competition to the vendor, the OP has requested that the vendor (again publicly) reveal details of his business model including costs and suppliers.

The OP continually raises the possibility of a bulk order if/when the vendor agrees to potential product modifications and possible preferential shipping.  This is the most normal part of the discussion, but would normally be discussed in private.  Given the occasional supply issues, I think most members of the public forum might selfishly prefer bulk orders removing all supply were not forthcoming.

Itís been fascinating to read (and Iím not sure the cynical view is entirely justified) but Iím amazed Randy has responded in the depth that he has and that at some point one or both parties didnít think it was better discussed in private.  The world is changing.

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This is a really interesting thread.

Sometimes things happen for a reason, & items get placed into the market because of peoples wants and needs. While I don't argue with you that a portion of this thread could have been hashed out with the vendor directly.

I'm also getting feedback from the public to see how they feel about re-introducing a product that's been missed at least by me for far to long. In that which is an affordable LEAF wico type joystick. I agree that I probably should of started an "interest" thread etc... Bottom line is no one else seems to produce LEAF joysticks right now new other than RANDY & apparently some shady dude which paypal doesn't want me to send my money to.

With that being said I'm going to be persistent in my quest to have another choice of a LEAF joystick that I'm going to bring to market if no one else does. It just simply put really needs to happen. It's a part I need / want / prefer with my builds. These aren't for my personal games (If it was i'd just be buying NOS Wico's period). I'm building about 1x gross per year yes 144 + cabinets for customers & the Wico Joystick is what I prefer, but I can't afford to place 50-60$ NOS wico's inside each cabinet just doesn't make sense for me. That's big money $9k worth of joysticks yep... that's alot right ? I also can't afford to spend time drilling 576 holes into metal panels with the LEAF PROs which aren't a standard mounting pattern + I'm not a huge fan of them anyways. The Dom8's are literally & apologize to those that already read my previous posts, but at the same price point as NOS Wicos simply does not work for me period.

 The thread certainly took a shift from not being able to log in, to me wanting to produce something that I personally simply would benefit from because I have a need for it. Likely along with the entire arcade community of those interested parties if done right. It might not happen right away but it's coming trust me. I won't mention any names, but again a MOD reached out to me telling me that the very product I'm discussing is coming soon...

He had asked me within a PM (I apologize & don't know the rules about posting things from a PM especially from a MOD... so if it's an issue please let me know, but again I'm not mentioning names. Which nothing should be wrong with me reposting this because nothing is wrong in the response & I think others should see this as a positive / sneak peek perhaps)

PM Stated:

Quote
"Anyway, in passing they mentioned that they are working on a Wico replica.  Said they were working with a guy and told me to be on the look out for a release in the future.  Hmm.

Just wondering if you had anything to do with that?   :applaud:  If you did that's great!  I won't mention anything in the forums of course.  If you didn't then I guess it's some hope for your Wico replicas.  Hopefully they will stay on budget.  Just curious if you knew anything." - anonymous

I think that's great and hope it happens ALBEIT from ME, or someone else... I truly don't care so long as it's priced right and done right. But if that was all just hog wash that's fine as well. I just really want these brought to market period.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:05:16 pm by mrclean »
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jimmer

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wweumina is right that there is something odd about the thread title and the turn the thread has taken. I don't feel comfortable contributing to a discussion on undercutting the dominux stick in a thread specifically addressed to Randy!   thankfully there is now a thread somewhere else.
On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

jennifer

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  OMG, Whatever M/clean.... First off Randy is an advertiser here, and as such should be given some respect,
                                          And to his credit he is even here in this thread, trying to address your initial concerns
                                     #2    , Quality comes at a price, Cheap is just that
                                     #3   , Not everyone is on the cheap, and even in bulk,  will pay for quality... (usually with a quanity discount)
                                     #4   , Go to china ?... I feel jenn doesn't even need to validate that point.
                                     #5   , Bob Roberts wasn't the cats meow as a gold standard supplier, The guy who didn't do online credit transfers, So ya, mail a check, and wait .
                                     #6   , Your design sounds off, and Del is right, (That's for a undercut wood, or metal C/p)
                                     #7   , You should know your suppliers before you commit to large orders
                                     #8   , And finally Dr/evil, go pet your cat out in this glorious fab shop of doom of yours... Because results speak volumes. 

mrclean

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  OMG, Whatever M/clean.... First off Randy is an advertiser here, and as such should be given some respect,
                                          And to his credit he is even here in this thread, trying to address your initial concerns
                                     #2    , Quality comes at a price, Cheap is just that
                                     #3   , Not everyone is on the cheap, and even in bulk,  will pay for quality... (usually with a quanity discount)
                                     #4   , Go to china ?... I feel jenn doesn't even need to validate that point.
                                     #5   , Bob Roberts wasn't the cats meow as a gold standard supplier, The guy who didn't do online credit transfers, So ya, mail a check, and wait .
                                     #6   , Your design sounds off, and Del is right, (That's for a undercut wood, or metal C/p)
                                     #7   , You should know your suppliers before you commit to large orders
                                     #8   , And finally Dr/evil, go pet your cat out in this glorious fab shop of doom of yours... Because results speak volumes.

#1, First off mrclean is (what I consider) a long time forum member here I'll be celebrating my 12th year on BYOAC in I think two days ?... & I'm doing just that....I'm entitled to an opinion in which directly relates to a vendors website / turn around time as well as product which he's selling & what I consider inferior based on the design for one. My intentions were never to insult Randy directly If that's the case I apologize. I'm just pointing out what I consider some flaws in the end users experience as well as the product he's selling.

#2 I couldn't agree more, see #1.

#3 I agree with you that not everyone is cheap... When considering a build of materials on a larger scale every dollar counts and is amplified. see #2

#4 Did I say I'm physically going to China ? if I did... I meant to say I'm dealing with negotiating & building relationships with various vendors in China to see if I can provide another LEAF Joystick choice. Yes many of the products sold by vendors in this hobby the parts come directly from "China". I've already noticed a few vendors here re-branding parts they are buying in China, some don't even hide it at all with the exception of increasing the price. I'll always be a collector & work on my own personal games & when available will always use OG parts in my dedicated machines & PAY for them respectively. However I also need to focus on profit margins as a business & in doing so I might also have a product that I will also bring to market somewhat unintentionally. I might purchase 1k joysticks have them custom made from China & not even offer them I really don't know. Arcade parts that SUZO / HAPP is a major company who come to mind as well as many other parts which are likely inside your very machine are mostly imported from China. You know what other product comes to mind & again you will have certain fanboys as well as people that don't care for them but the iPhone... yeah *designed in California but majority of the parts come from southeast Asia, and is only assembled at Foxconn in Taiwan (which wouldn't you know it those other knock off wico's came from). Even Randy within this very thread stated & admitted about him importing that cheap $3 Joystick and using some of the parts etc...

5# I love this one as perhaps you never really were fully immersed with dealing with one of the best assets to the hobby. nor did you apparently deal with Bob Roberts because had you of ... he was so trust worthy that he shipped product prior to receiving payment known as "cross shipping" if you were on his good list. I'm sad he's no longer part of the arcade community. For you to say:
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Bob Roberts wasn't the cats meow as a gold standard supplier
Is a flat out insult. Not only did he provide free knowledge to help other people his prices were beyond fair & also carried certain products which no one else did at the time, + gave away free gifts & moon pies.... yeah he sure wasn't the cats meow.

#6  Your reply sounds off, My design / intentions is to at this point send a NOS Wico joystick (again this is very bias but I absolutely personally love Wico's to me they are incredible & I wish I hate to keep reiterating that an inexpensive repro existed which matched it's quality. Again not mentioning beyond this but apparently via a PM from a MOD someone else claims to already have the wheels in motion on exactly what I'm looking to do or wasn't sure it was me etc... All I say is I hope that if some one beats me to the punch it's done right; both quality & price point which is collectively what my focus is. But it doesn't mean I'm going to flat out stop trying or not being persistent about inquiring on what it will take to get a proper wico replica to market at a reasonable cost. Many people make various parts to rebuild original sticks. I have news for you the NOS parts etc.. That's eventually going to dry up. The thread at this point should be seen as a positive in possibly bringing another option to the market which I think it needs. No matter my efforts of how much money or the quality you will always have a conflict of interest, I've already prepared my self for that.

#7 agree, you should know your vendors, part of this thread describes just that.... which is why this thread took a turn & they do say "Necessity is the mother of invention".. Thus why I never initially intended on attempting on bringing a product to market but It might just happen by default. Also directly agree with you again refer back to #4 where I say "dealing with negotiating & building relationships with various vendors in China" (which was already previously mentioned in this thread prior to you posting). I need / want specific parts for my business which no one seems to offer in bulk & exactly what I need: price point nor exact product. Again & I hate to keep reiterating things I've already mentioned in the thread but sure I can buy NOS Wico's for $54 shipped. But for one that source will be gone eventually. Or I can just purchase re-built Wico's.. Those would be fine solutions for my own personal games. Again I just want NEW LEAF Wico's at what I consider to be a reasonable cost for bulk purchasing.... it's plausible I know it is. 

8#Unnecessary comment, so I'll give you a nicer more subtle one in return... I like your avatar, I'm a huge Disney fan, & if anything I'm a dog person. P2 of#8
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results speak volumes
You are certainly correct with that 100% couldn't agree with you more.
2,370,650 Gun.Smoke

pbj

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Alright, dude, cash in hand.  Let us know when you have something for sale.

 :cheers:

jennifer

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  Your business model seems a bit archaic,.... Go get some pie at the truck stop, and pick up a copy of USA today and check out the stock market, and news on import tariffs, and particularly that story on how iPhone building a plant in the states.  innovation is back baby..."Made in USA" 

  
 

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