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Author Topic: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame  (Read 549 times)

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edgaus

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Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« on: December 30, 2017, 08:51:05 pm »
Hi, everybody
I have some questions and I was hoping for some help from the more experienced here, if it's not too much trouble.

The thing is simple, I have an arcade monitor that I acquired a while ago. It's working perfectly so far.
I have set it up with an arcade VGA (pci express version) and GroovyMame and so far no problem
I have Windows XP 32bit installed on that hard drive, because at the time I read somewhere here that it was the best OS to get
the best experience and that Windows 7 and newer OS had problems with the lower resolutions and video drivers and such...
now I'm not an expert or very knowledgeable with these things, but I got it working.

The thing is, I haven't been up to date with new versions of Groovymame for a while, but I decided to upgrade and I'm seeing that
there are no 32bit versions any more? Don't know if i'm wrong, but I just can't find them anywhere here... finally the questions.. lol, yea sorry:

1- Is there a GroovyMame 32 bit that I may be missing somewhere...? if there's not then...
2- What do you recommend? Do I change to Windows XP 64-bit?
or do I upgrade to Windows 7 64-bit?

Since I've been out of the loop for a while I don't know if Groovymame would now work fine with my ArcadeVGA and my arcade monitor on windows 7 or newer OS

Thanks in advance!

krick

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 12:38:52 am »
I think the recommended configuration for GroovyMAME is now the following:

Windows 7 64-bit
Radeon HD 5000 (or higher) video card + CRT EmuDriver 2.0 drivers

I think the ArcadeVGA can still work in a limited capacity with current versions of GroovyMAME, but you'll have much better results with a "normal" Radeon HD 5000 card (or higher).

funkycochise

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 02:26:25 am »
there are always 32 bits versions builds available in main groovymame topic.
usually built shortly after official calamity diff is released (I do it if I have the time)
these also includes d3dex and no nag screens option.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151459.msg1639543.html#msg1639543

haynor666 maintains a special builds including many features and fixes
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154799.0.html
my personal choice  :applaud:

what is you current version ?

keep in mind that you’ll need a roms set for that newer version.
many changes occured since 180 version
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 02:28:48 am by funkycochise »

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 10:00:42 am »
Thanks a lot for your replies!
krick: I didn't know about the Radeon HD 5000  :o , What are the advantages compared to the Arcade VGA? how much does it costs? and is it hard to find?

funkycochise: Hey, thanks for the info! I saw a thread about that, but I think it was up to version 192, I was trying to get version 193. Thanks a lot for the heads up! I'll check the links.

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2017, 10:28:31 am »
I've been researching about the Radeon HD 5000 series, but it seems the Arcade VGA I have, which I believe was the latest released, is based on a HD 5000 series. This is what is says on their website: Performance Enhanced HD5450 1Gb Version

So, does that means I could run Windows 7 64bit and the CRT EmuDriver 2.0 drivers with no problems?

keropi

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2017, 12:10:42 pm »
I believe it will work just fine, give it a shot!

krick

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 01:37:07 pm »
I've been researching about the Radeon HD 5000 series, but it seems the Arcade VGA I have, which I believe was the latest released, is based on a HD 5000 series. This is what is says on their website: Performance Enhanced HD5450 1Gb Version

So, does that means I could run Windows 7 64bit and the CRT EmuDriver 2.0 drivers with no problems?

I don't think so.  As far as I know, the ArcadeVGA has a custom BIOS and requires special drivers.  In the past, they were not compatible with CRT EmuDriver.  Give it a try to make sure though.

You don't specifically need a Radeon HD 5000.  That's just the minimum recommended.  There are other compatible 5000+ models...

non-GCN cards...
AMD Radeon™ HD 5000, HD 6000 Series, HD 7000-7600, HD 8000-8400 Series
AMD Radeon™ R5 235X, R5 235, R5 230, R5 220 Series

GCN cards...
AMD Radeon™ HD 7700-7900, HD 8500-8900 Series
AMD Radeon™ R7 200, R7 300, R9 200, R9 300, R9 Nano, R9 Fury Series

Note that Windows 7 64-bit or higher is required to run CRT EmuDriver 2.0

If you want to buy a new card, here is a fairly cheap card on Newegg for $32.  They also sell a fanless model with twice as much memory for $39.99 (after rebate)...

MSI Radeon HD 6450 1GB DDR3
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127584

MSI Radeon HD 6450 2GB DDR3 Fanless
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814127738

You can find cheaper cards on Ebay (usually starting around $20) but be sure to look for something with a VGA port for ease of use.  A lot of the cards on Ebay have a DMS-59 connector that requires a special breakout cable (usually at additional cost) to get a VGA port.

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 02:51:09 pm »
Oh, nice! Thanks a lot for all the useful info, guys!
I believe I can think of upgrading the card in the near future.
What would you think is the most popular choice, for a Windows 7 64bit build?
I'm sorry if I come across as ignorant, but the problem is I've always used Nvidia cards, heh so I'm a little lost with AMD cards and their models...

Hm, you said Windows 7 64-bit or higher? Does that means I could set it up with Windows 10?
Because I happen to have a Windows 10 installation in another hard drive.. might try it there.

krick

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 05:33:34 pm »
The Radeon HD 5450 and 6450 seem to be popular because they're fairly cheap cards to purchase.
You can find them new for around $35 give or take a few bucks.
They're a solid choice for an arcade cabinet.

If you want something a little more "future proof", consider getting one of the "GCN" (Graphics Core Next) cards since AMD has announced the end of driver support for non-GCN Radeon cards.   This isn't really an issue now, but I could see it being a problem in a few years if Calamity starts basing CRT EmuDriver off of a newer driver version.

More info:  https://techreport.com/news/29362/amd-ends-driver-support-for-non-gcn-radeon-cards

GCN cards supported by CRT EmuDriver...
AMD Radeon™ HD 7700-7900, HD 8500-8900 Series
AMD Radeon™ R7 200, R7 300, R9 200, R9 300, R9 Nano, R9 Fury Series

I personally have a Radeon HD 7750.  For reasons that I don't understand, they tend to be pretty expensive on Ebay right now.

Newegg has this Radeon R7 250 card for $49.99 after rebate, which seems like a decent card...
MSI Radeon R7 250 2GB
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127763

There are people using Windows 10 with GroovyMAME and CRT EmuDriver 2.0
I don't know if there are any drawbacks or limitations to using Windows 10 so I'll let other people comment on that.

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 04:12:01 pm »
I am running Windows 10 enterprise 1703, 100% hidden GUI, using hd5450 graphics card, jpac, wg k7000 monitor, groovymame + crt emudriver. Absolutely zero issues.

sean_skroht

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2018, 04:35:19 pm »
I am running Windows 10 enterprise 1703, 100% hidden GUI, using hd5450 graphics card, jpac, wg k7000 monitor, groovymame + crt emudriver. Absolutely zero issues.

You mentioned that the GUI is 100% hidden.

At the moment, I'm using Windows 7 with Hyperspin, GM 0.171 and an ArcageVGA.

I have it setup so that when Windows 7 starts up you see nothing except for the Vista style yellow scroll bar that briefly appears at the bottom of the screen for a second. (This appears instead of the normal boot animation because Windows 7 is running at a resolution below 800x600). The actual welcome screen is black and then it goes straight into Hyperspin. I would use my HD5970 with the CRTEmuDrivers except I get that annoying "Test Mode" watermark that I can't get rid of and that's a deal breaker for me. Plus test mode adds about 15 seconds to my boot up time (it would be nice if the drivers were signed).

So have you managed to hide everything (including all text and mouse pointers) on boot up in Windows 10 and how did you do it?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 04:38:38 pm by sean_skroht »

keilmillerjr

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 05:14:53 pm »
I am running Windows 10 enterprise 1703, 100% hidden GUI, using hd5450 graphics card, jpac, wg k7000 monitor, groovymame + crt emudriver. Absolutely zero issues.

You mentioned that the GUI is 100% hidden.

At the moment, I'm using Windows 7 with Hyperspin, GM 0.171 and an ArcageVGA.

I have it setup so that when Windows 7 starts up you see nothing except for the Vista style yellow scroll bar that briefly appears at the bottom of the screen for a second. (This appears instead of the normal boot animation because Windows 7 is running at a resolution below 800x600). The actual welcome screen is black and then it goes straight into Hyperspin. I would use my HD5970 with the CRTEmuDrivers except I get that annoying "Test Mode" watermark that I can't get rid of and that's a deal breaker for me. Plus test mode adds about 15 seconds to my boot up time (it would be nice if the drivers were signed).

So have you managed to hide everything (including all text and mouse pointers) on boot up in Windows 10 and how did you do it?

Yup. Everything. Only thing left to hide in video was the loading cursor. I hide it afterwards. I’ll send you a link to my incomplete guide with the cursor file.

https://youtu.be/bAQUHcUxSXg

https://keilmillerjr.github.io

https://youtu.be/ppy6INgXbJM

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2018, 08:14:18 pm »
krick, thanks a lot for all the help! I'll definitely consider buying a new card in the near future.

keilmillerjr, that sounds awesome! I have a windows 10 installation, I'm going to give it a try :)

sean_skroht, is that Windows 7 64bit? Nice, I have an ArcadeVGA 5000, I have never tried using it on Win7 for the reasons I stated in the first post. Hmm so does it works fine? with the switching of resolutions and all that? How do you have it set up?

Because I'm really considering changing OS, since I realized doing some searching that since version 0.171 they removed ddraw support from Mame and my setup in winXP is not switching the resolutions properly when I tried Groovymame 32bit latest versions... it worked fine with 0.170... dunno much of the technical side of things but I read in winXP it has to do with ddraw apparently, I tried using d3d but it's looking squished ..and weird.. like there some stretching or something going on, is not looking like it should, lol.

I can't really say what type of monitor I have exactly,  :-\ I bought it from an old arcade place, it belonged to what I believe was a golf game, I'm not sure... it is 27" I befriended a guy there that repaired the machines and he sold it to me and adapted a VGA connection to it...it's been working excellently.

Thanks a lot for all the assistance, this is really a nice community! :)


sean_skroht

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2018, 08:43:36 pm »
Yup. Everything. Only thing left to hide in video was the loading cursor. I hide it afterwards. I’ll send you a link to my incomplete guide with the cursor file.

https://youtu.be/bAQUHcUxSXg

https://keilmillerjr.github.io

https://youtu.be/ppy6INgXbJM

Thank you very much for that useful information. I will be looking into that for sure!

sean_skroht

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2018, 10:19:06 pm »
sean_skroht, is that Windows 7 64bit? Nice, I have an ArcadeVGA 5000, I have never tried using it on Win7 for the reasons I stated in the first post. Hmm so does it works fine? with the switching of resolutions and all that? How do you have it set up?

Yes Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit.

I have an ArcadeVGA 3000 and have had zero issues with it. There have been criticisms towards it for having only 30 modelines available and, whilst I perhaps understand why, I found those criticisms completely negated by using the ArcadeVGA with Powerstrip. With Powerstrip you can take an existing ArcadeVGA modeline and completely modify it's timing to suit any game it is intended for and then save it without replacing the original. You can center the image, reduce or increase the front and back porch and change the refresh rate. Then you can call that modified modeline up with your custom made ini file for that particular game. I find this setup particularly useful and versatile for getting the right refresh rate for vertical games with up to 264 lines on a horizontal monitor (I don't have the luxury of a vertical monitor).

For example, Galaxian was a pig of a game to run on a horizontal monitor at the right resolution and refresh rate but I used Powerstrip to modify the 352x256 AVGA modeline and, with a bit of tweaking in a custom .ini file created for Galaxian, I was able to get the game running at 352x256 @ 60.604Hz vertical refresh rate (near enough to it's original 60.606061 refresh rate). Smooth as silk. But you have to be careful because you risk cooking your 15KHz monitor since they have a tolerance for how far up you can push that horizontal refresh rate. The horizontal refresh rate of the game is currently at 16.666KHz. I had to reduce the front and back porch to keep the horizontal refresh rate down. If I hadn't I would have been pushing the monitor close to 17KHz, which I didn't want to do.

The learning curve is steep but worthwhile. Having said that, I'm having trouble getting this system to work with the latest GM since something has changed and I need to get to the bottom of what that is.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 10:40:12 pm by sean_skroht »

Calamity

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2018, 06:19:59 am »
The learning curve is steep but worthwhile. Having said that, I'm having trouble getting this system to work with the latest GM since something has changed and I need to get to the bottom of what that is.

I've created a new thread and moved your posts concerning this topic there so we can find the issue and a possible fix for next release: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156227.0.html
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2018, 12:24:09 pm »
Thanks, sean_skroht that's really interesting!
I was wondering if is not too much to ask, ...can you do a simple tutorial or steps on how to set up powerstrip and custom resolutions?  :'(


buttersoft

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2018, 05:26:37 pm »
...can you do a simple tutorial or steps on how to set up powerstrip and custom resolutions?  :'(

I was under the impression you could just use VMM over any driver you like (including NVidia, which will still disallow 15kHz modes)...? Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

For more info on the way GM handles modelines, check out the monitor presets sticky at the top of this forum, and section e) of the guide i wrote up - https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/87668-A-guide-to-connecting-your-Windows-PC-to-an-SD-CRT-TV-PVM-or-Arcade-Monitor

Google is also a great reference, of course ;)

sean_skroht

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 06:55:48 pm »
Thanks, sean_skroht that's really interesting!
I was wondering if is not too much to ask, ...can you do a simple tutorial or steps on how to set up powerstrip and custom resolutions?  :'(

Sorry I'll need to clarify, you can't create custom resolutions with Powerstrip and an AVGA (well not as far as I'm aware), but you can create as many custom refresh rates as you want for the 30 existing resolutions of the AVGA. I may have worded things unclear before. :)

I can try and walk you through some steps but I first need to have a look at some small issues that I'm having at the moment. Keep in mind that what may work for me may not work for you. Also there will need to be some understanding how CRT's work and how refresh rates are calculated. Have a look at Buttersoft's tutorial first. You may end up finding that using CRTEmudrivers with an ATI video card is the way to go. Whilst I can get a wide range of versatility out of my AVGA with Powerstrip, it takes quite some time and patience to setup and get right, and I can assure you it will mess with your head. :D
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 07:02:46 pm by sean_skroht »

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2018, 08:51:15 am »
Hey, no problem sean_skroht, I know how it is, when you have some issues with your set up and you want to resolve them, lol, I get pretty obsessive sometimes.
I've been doing some Google searching on some of the things posted here.

I've been checking the GCN cards and newer models, .. but they don't seem to have a VGA port...I know newer graphics cards have been ditching the vga port, even Nvidia .. so how do you guys set it up? some adapter or converter ?? or are there newer models with VGA out there?

krick

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2018, 09:51:25 am »
I've been checking the GCN cards and newer models, .. but they don't seem to have a VGA port...I know newer graphics cards have been ditching the vga port, even Nvidia .. so how do you guys set it up? some adapter or converter ?? or are there newer models with VGA out there?

If there's no VGA port, then you can usually use a DVI to VGA adapter like this...



However, note that there are three main "types" of DVI ports:

DVI-I supports both digital and analog
DVI-D digital only
DVI-A analog only (very rare)



Note that the DVI-D ports (digital only) are missing four pins that are required for transmitting analog signals.

I believe that most modern cards have at least one DVI-I port.

There are still modern cards that have actual VGA ports, if you don't want to use an adapter.  You just have to look around.

The MSI Radeon R7 250 that I linked above still has one...
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127763

Also this XFX Radeon R7 240...
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150812

Also this Gigabyte Radeon R7 240
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JRSPXMQ

If you want to shop on Ebay for cards, you can use this search to narrow things down a bit.  Add additional keywords to the front as necessary to filter it further...

radeon vga + (1GB,2GB,4GB,"1 GB","2 GB","4 GB")
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:17:42 am by krick »

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2018, 01:44:23 pm »
Thanks a bunch, krick! I've seen the different dvi ports! Just didn't know why they were different.

Thanks for the links too. I'm going to keep using Win XP with the arcade vga 5000 for now,
but this year one of my goals is to build a new PC just for retro gaming.

My setup right now is with my regular workstation... I have an Nvidia GTX 980 in there together with the ArcadeVGA, lol.

I work 3d, animation, illustration, vfx etc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/edgaus/ and https://www.instagram.com/edgaus/, if anyone want to checkout my work  ;))

so I usually have decent graphic cards in my computer and I decided to use the same PC for my retro fix, but it has become a little bothersome...so that's another reason I've been asking all this too.


And thanks again to all of you who replied! You've all been a great help, and I even learned some stuff  ;D
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 02:24:11 pm by edgaus »

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2018, 02:22:57 pm »
Oh, one last thing, can anyone recommend a good motherboard for a Mame centric gaming rig?
I've been thinking of buying a Micro ATX, for the space. I have to clarify that I don't have a full cabinet or anything...
I have the monitor inside part of an Ace Driver Victory Lap arcade...
lol, the guy that sold me the monitor gave it to me for free. Here are some pics:





Apparently it belonged to this arcade:


krick

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2018, 03:22:53 pm »
Oh, one last thing, can anyone recommend a good motherboard for a Mame centric gaming rig?
I've been thinking of buying a Micro ATX, for the space. I have to clarify that I don't have a full cabinet or anything...

I have an arcade cabinet with a custom-built PC inside with a microATX motherboard and a Silverstone Sugo SG10 case. I LOVE this case.
It's the smallest microATX case that supports a full-sized ATX power supply and full-height CPU coolers.
Here's a review of the previous version of the case, the SG9, which is basically identical except for the front panel...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSOxvwbke9w

My motherboard is an ASUS Z87-M PLUS microATX board.
I have an Intel Core i7-4790K overclocked to 4.8GHz and 16 GB of memory.
I know that this is total overkill for a dedicated MAME PC, but I think this system is going to be my last upgrade for a very long time.

I'm still using Windows 7 (not a fan of Windows 10) and this CPU and motherboard are some of the last that are supported with Windows 7.
More info: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7-wont-work-intels-current-next-gen-cpus/

Honestly, these days, it probably makes sense to go with a miniITX motherboard if you can find the one with the features you want (overclocking?) and at a decent price point.  You only really need a single PCI Express slot for the video card.  Everything else is built into the motherboard.

EDIT:  Check out this sweet miniITX case...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve47gXwkvaI
I think they intend you to use a radiator in the front as there's not much clearance for tall CPU coolers.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 05:06:45 pm by krick »

edgaus

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2018, 09:42:53 am »
Nice! Thanks krick, that's exactly what I was thinking, something like that. That case looks awesome for what I had in mind.
I've been checking the Mini ITX too, seems like a good idea!
I'm just worried about the space inside and the graphic card with those, they showed a special type of card made for ITX, shorter one....I might have to do a little more research.

Anyway, I know where to start now, thanks again.

krick

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Re: Please help! Need some advice on OS and GroovyMame
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2018, 11:29:43 am »
A Mini-ITX motherboard can use the same cards as any other motherboard, the only limitation is the size of your PC case.

There's nothing special about an "ITX" video card other than it being a shorter physical card to fit better in tiny small form factor (SFF) cases.

For example, here's two versions of the Nvidia GTX 1060 from Evga.  Usually since the longer card has better cooling they will often be overclocked...



Honestly, though, usually only the top of the line gaming cards are really long monsters with multiple fans.  Most of the kinds of video cards that you'd put in a dedicated MAME machine would likely be short single-fan designs.

If you decide that you absolutely *have* to fit a long double/triple fan monster video card, then they do make longer models of that case...





  
 

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