Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility  (Read 1034 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Hey gang.  I got through the  14 gague stainless, and the USB controllers are working ok but now that I am going SCART RGB input with the beast, I want to be able control consoles with the control panel, as the good Lord intended.

What console controllers would be the best to hack that would let me buy adapters to hotswap to different consoles between a dozen adapters in a bin?  I am looking from a 100% coverage AND affordability. 

It needs to go USB but I see there are USB options for almost every console.

I am looking at psx, but not seeing anythin ready made to get me to an snes (where I assume I can double adapt to get back to NES).

Consoles in play:
NES
SNES
N64
Gamecube
genesis
Sega Saturn
Sega dreamcast
Psx
Ps2
Ps3
Xbox
Xbox360


I feel like this could require a bedroom full of corkboards and strings running between notes to properly decide the best "starter" but any advice is appreciated

Thanks All!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 02:10:53 pm by bimm25e »

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16400
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 02:46:23 pm »
Full stop. 

Most console games don't play well on arcade controls.  Movements are too precise and gameplay sessions are too long.  The good lord intended you to play those console games sitting in front of your tv with the gamepads they came with.  If you insist on playing those games on your arcade cabinet anyway, it doesn't make any sense to use the real consoles as it will be a unmitigated nightmare managing everything.  Just run emulators and your usb interface will be fine. 

That being said there are a few avr solutions, but either they only allow for one conversion, or they require a avr that you can no longer easily purchase.

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 04:23:05 pm »
Full stop. 

Most console games don't play well on arcade controls.  Movements are too precise and gameplay sessions are too long.  The good lord intended you to play those console games sitting in front of your tv with the gamepads they came with.  If you insist on playing those games on your arcade cabinet anyway, it doesn't make any sense to use the real consoles as it will be a unmitigated nightmare managing everything.  Just run emulators and your usb interface will be fine. 

That being said there are a few avr solutions, but either they only allow for one conversion, or they require a avr that you can no longer easily purchase.

Well that's like, your opinion, man. My cabinet already has an rgb scart input and is working very well so far with all of my rgb scart consoles besides having to use the original controllers instead of the option to use my CP.

If anyone has any advice on console controller adapters is appreciate it :D


Pics related, my current setup is very simple, I would kill for 2x male controller sockets that I could adapt to multi consoles, or just loop them back to a usb converter female "insert console here"port mounted on the cab. Then put the 2x male and female ports on a panel with the a.c. and scart sockets where all my old pinballs are laying
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 04:48:38 pm by bimm25e »

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4530
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 04:42:18 pm »
I share H_C's opinion. Keep the consoles games for couch playing, on their designed-for controls.  Just like Arcade games should use the controls they were designed for (Time Pilot or Gyruss with a Spinner is just wrong - sorry lew).

But it's your life, do you man.

I would suggest a Toodles' MC Cthulhu board and build your own RJ45 cables, and just get controller adapters for the consoles that it doesn't support.

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 04:56:58 pm »
I share H_C's opinion. Keep the consoles games for couch playing, on their designed-for controls.  Just like Arcade games should use the controls they were designed for (Time Pilot or Gyruss with a Spinner is just wrong - sorry lew).

But it's your life, do you man.

I would suggest a Toodles' MC Cthulhu board and build your own RJ45 cables, and just get controller adapters for the consoles that it doesn't support.
First off, nothing I'm doing prohibits one from taking the console, hooking it to the tv, sitting on one's duff and playing with an original controller for hours in an immobile state.  I'm just adding the ability to hook up to my control panel if I want to.


There is no way you could convince me that clayfighter 2 would be better on a snes paddle than through my control panel, and that emulating it on pc it is just as good a playing on console, or a composite cable looks as good as RGB. 

You also can't convince me that MvC2 on dreamcast is better on a DC controller, or an emulator.

 I could go on, I have my reasons, let's keep it technical. killer advice on the cthulu though, I have seen some about this already and i am still  leaning towards 2 hacked gamepads and a basket full of adapters.  My concern with it is having to have wires for each system linked to it all at once AND if I have it connected to a pc and a console at the same time does the console get zapped?

Any more advice is certainly appreciated.  Thanks all!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:24:48 pm by bimm25e »

Grasshopper

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2280
  • life, don't talk to me about life
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 04:57:34 pm »
Most console games don't play well on arcade controls.  Movements are too precise and gameplay sessions are too long.

I disagree. In my opinion, a good joystick is always far more precise than any gamepad. Ever tried playing Pacman or Defender with a gamepad? It's a horrible experience.

The reason why gamepads were introduced is mainly because joysticks really to be anchored to something solid to work well. Gamepads are also generally cheaper to make than joysticks, although that does depend upon the quality of the components used.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4530
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2017, 05:12:47 pm »
There is no way you could convince me that clayfighter 2 would be better on a snes paddle than through my control panel, and that emulating it on pc it is just as good a playing on console, or a composite cable looks as good as RGB. 
But that game sucks anyway, so either way the experience will be ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  >:D


Quote
You also can't convince me that MvC2 on dreamcast is better on a DC controller, or an emulator.
But if you're already emulating the actual arcade version of games, why would you play a inferior port?


Quote
I could go on, I have my reasons, let's keep it technical. killer advice on the cthulu though, I have seen some about this already and i am still  leaning towards 2 hacked gamepads and a basket full of adapters. 

Any more advice is certainly appreciated.  Thanks all!
The cthulu will save you both time and money than 2 hacked gamepads and a bunch of adapters. 


Most console games don't play well on arcade controls.  Movements are too precise and gameplay sessions are too long.

I disagree. In my opinion, a good joystick is always far more precise than any gamepad. Ever tried playing Pacman or Defender with a gamepad? It's a horrible experience.

The reason why gamepads were introduced is mainly because joysticks really to be anchored to something solid to work well. Gamepads are also generally cheaper to make than joysticks, although that does depend upon the quality of the components used.
Precision isn't the only thing to compare apple to oranges. Button layouts, amount of buttons, they sometimes just don't work well with console games on arcade controls.  Case in point, Einhänder on PSX. In theory it should be better on arcade controls, but with the amount of buttons used, with switching weapons up and down as well as gun position changing...it doesn't work well on an arcade layout. The game was specifically designed with controller pads in mind.

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 05:31:08 pm »
This seems like trolling almost, I like the clayfighter games, dreamcast MvC2 is #2 only to the naomi version, and only by a little it is far superior to any other port or emulation I've ever played. And the cthulu will cost an extra $5-10 for each controller socket I have to scavange putting me near $125 per player by the time I'm done

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 05:48:23 pm »
Sitting on the toilet and bam! It hits me!

Start with cthulu, hardwire like 4 systems, then buy adapters to fill in as necessary.  Having 4 options to adapt from should make filling in the missing adapters easily.

I'll post as the project moves along, taking advice for 4x starter cables, thinking snes, psx, dreamcast and something ffor genesis/saturn

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4530
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 06:19:36 pm »
There you go.   :cheers:

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16400
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 08:14:21 pm »
I'm glad you figured out how to do your cluster- ---fudgesicle--- that you'll never use.  Listen to your elders... we've all been there and done that.  ;)

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 10:49:09 am »
I'm glad you figured out how to do your cluster- ---fudgesicle--- that you'll never use.  Listen to your elders... we've all been there and done that.  ;)

Bro, is it hard moving with all those chips stacked on your shoulders?  Do you talk to people like that in real life?  You dont know me and you don't know how much of this stuff I've already done.  From our short discussion, I think I would smoke you in a video game trivia challenge, or even a 1v1 in any game you want.

 If I asked a room full of people an honest question, and the first thing I heard back was "full stop." I would probably berate that person for being both full of themselves and counter productive to the discussion.

Enjoy sitting on the couch and playing your video games for hours, I'd rather have friends over and play MvC2 on my arcade machine, try to wrap your giant brain around that and keep your opinions in the barn with the rest of the ---smurf-poo---


Mike A

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1756
  • Buy a Multimeter
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 11:13:09 am »
I am sure your infantile retort will force Howard to reevaluate his entire life. ::)
Video game trivia challenge? Seriously?

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2017, 11:22:11 am »
I am sure your infantile retort will force Howard to reevaluate his entire life. ::)
Video game trivia challenge? Seriously?

Super serious, any game any time, if people want to throw the word "elder" at me please believe I will be more than happy to flex accordingly and embarass said agitator.  Preferably in a public setting

I've been running emulators since a buddy showed me nesticle back in 98. I am fully aware of the benefits and limitations, that's why I am happily modding my cabinet to accept real console hookups.  I was hoping to get some facts to make a decision to further my project but oh how the opinions flow on byoac
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:25:46 am by bimm25e »

Mike A

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1756
  • Buy a Multimeter
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 11:32:07 am »
If one of my buddies showed me his nesticle, I would punch him.

You are only embarrassing one person right now.

yotsuya

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17716
  • 2014 UCA Winner, 2014, 2015, 2016 ZapCon Winner
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1420628.html
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 12:05:06 pm »
The is the most vagina-drying conversation this site has ever seen.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

yotsuya

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17716
  • 2014 UCA Winner, 2014, 2015, 2016 ZapCon Winner
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1420628.html
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 12:08:48 pm »
Ya’lll come to ZapCon and settle this like men. Trivia at 50 paces.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Mike A

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1756
  • Buy a Multimeter
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 12:11:04 pm »
My weapon of choice is a sharpened Pi.

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7468
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 12:16:56 pm »
The is the most vagina-drying conversation this site has ever seen.
I bet it's up there but there's no way it's #1
This site doesn't really score high on the strokeability scale

Mike, do me a favor and look up the word " toadie"
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:19:02 pm by bimm25e »

Mike A

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1756
  • Buy a Multimeter
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 12:26:29 pm »
No thanks. I am too busy trying to moisturize.

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7468
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2017, 12:42:40 pm »

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16400
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 12:48:27 pm »
I am sure your infantile retort will force Howard to reevaluate his entire life. ::)
Video game trivia challenge? Seriously?

Super serious, any game any time, if people want to throw the word "elder" at me please believe I will be more than happy to flex accordingly and embarass said agitator.  Preferably in a public setting

I've been running emulators since a buddy showed me nesticle back in 98.

Yes but you see I've been BUILDING CABINETS since 98.  Not to mention my software contributions, which, particularly early on, revolved around writing software to fix the various issues you are going to run into when running multiple non-mame emulators.  I know what works and what doesn't, as do most people in this thread... so again, listen to your elders.  Sounds like you are the one with a chip on your shoulder... I'm just trying to keep you from wasting time and money.  Any good engineer will tell you that simple is better.  If changing something makes it more simple with more or less the same result, that is what you do. Ignoring the war crime that is putting console games on your arcade cab, the main problem with your "plan" is that you have a singular set of controls and monitor, that you wish to hook up to several things, so if you were a good engineer you would ask yourself "Is there a way to avoid hooking up several things to this one cabinet and still be able to play the games I want?"  and you would answer yourself  "Why yes!  If I use emulators and a pc, I only have to hook up one thing."  Then you would move forward with the more sensible solution.  If you were a good engineer that is. 

The fact that you think a competition on game trivia would have anything to do with software and hardware development just shows that you really don't know as much as you think you do.  I don't particularly care if you can beat me in nerd quiz bowl or not.  Myself I like to actually play the games. 

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 01:14:44 pm »
It already does all the regular stuff you are talking about, I can already play these games on emulators, I am done with the easy part. I have been hooking up consoles via RGB and the picture is always AMAZING, I want to keep going down This path. This thing is my hobby and this is what I want to do with it this winter.  I don't care if someone thinks I shouldn't, if that's your opinion, I would ask you not post in my thread

If anyone on this arcade control forum has some info regarding console controller adapters or something similar, it would be nice if you could post it here. Im going to post about how my research and decision pan out as a thank you to the community.


 I'm still not happy with the "answer" I posted yesterday and would love some open discussion focused on problem solving, if anyone is still not disgusted by this post and wants to jump in with info on these devices or similar solutions like the cthulu it would help a brother out.

I'd really like to skip the cthulu and just have 1 pair of (inset console here) plugs coming from the cp with the way I am making the input/output panel it would be really nice to only have 1 set of male plugs to set a failsafe that only 1 thing is plugged in at once
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 01:28:34 pm by bimm25e »

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 01:38:31 pm »
SNES seems to be in the lead atm.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/214612-snes-to-ps1ps2-adapter-video-review/

I'm wondering if I can double dip adapters up to a dreamcast from there
like snes ->psx->DC
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 02:09:10 pm by bimm25e »

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 01:06:23 am »
Anyone have any experience with tototek? Looks like psx is in the lead again.  They have a LOT of ready made adapters coming from psx controllers

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=Converter&inc_subcat=0&sort=20a&page=1

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4530
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2017, 01:19:20 am »
I've got the SNES Joypad Converter, it's solid.

But if you're going to the adapter route, I would suggest the Raphnet adapters. He's got a lot of options, and a lot of PSX support if that's the path you're taking.   They are awesome adapters with no perceivable lag from what I can tell (and I'm very sensitive to lag).


bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2017, 10:56:54 am »
Okay so this is maybe not the best control scheme

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4530
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2017, 04:48:36 pm »
I am sure your infantile retort will force Howard to reevaluate his entire life. ::)
Video game trivia challenge? Seriously?

Super serious, any game any time, if people want to throw the word "elder" at me please believe I will be more than happy to flex accordingly and embarass said agitator.  Preferably in a public setting

I've been running emulators since a buddy showed me nesticle back in 98.

Yes but you see I've been BUILDING CABINETS since 98.  Not to mention my software contributions, which, particularly early on, revolved around writing software to fix the various issues you are going to run into when running multiple non-mame emulators.  I know what works and what doesn't, as do most people in this thread... so again, listen to your elders.  Sounds like you are the one with a chip on your shoulder... I'm just trying to keep you from wasting time and money.  Any good engineer will tell you that simple is better.  If changing something makes it more simple with more or less the same result, that is what you do. Ignoring the war crime that is putting console games on your arcade cab, the main problem with your "plan" is that you have a singular set of controls and monitor, that you wish to hook up to several things, so if you were a good engineer you would ask yourself "Is there a way to avoid hooking up several things to this one cabinet and still be able to play the games I want?"  and you would answer yourself  "Why yes!  If I use emulators and a pc, I only have to hook up one thing."  Then you would move forward with the more sensible solution.  If you were a good engineer that is. 

The fact that you think a competition on game trivia would have anything to do with software and hardware development just shows that you really don't know as much as you think you do.  I don't particularly care if you can beat me in nerd quiz bowl or not.  Myself I like to actually play the games.

I think you guys should have a high score throw-down.  Pick 3 games each and see who's got the metal to claim being the bigger arcade nerd between the two of you.


bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2017, 06:45:52 pm »
"mettle"

Looks like dude is into racing sims, I would say best 20 lap race time in Daytona USA for Saturn or dreamcast or original arcade cabinet could be #1

Or I would do 5 laps on tsukuba circuit on gt5, you pick the car


High score in DK, or Mario bros for #2. whatever boardset you like.


Maybe 1 credit in twinkle star sprites or areofighters, or UN squadron

Or if you got a way to play point blank or area 51 or police trainer
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 06:57:11 pm by bimm25e »

yotsuya

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17716
  • 2014 UCA Winner, 2014, 2015, 2016 ZapCon Winner
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1420628.html
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2017, 06:55:40 pm »
"mettle"

Looks like dude is into racing sims, I would say best 20 lap race time in Daytona USA for Saturn or dreamcast or original arcade cabinet could be #1

Or I would do 5 laps on tsukuba circuit on gt5, you pick the car


High score in DK, or Mario bros for #2. whatever boardset you like.

Naw dude, ---smurfin---’ metal!

***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

bimm25e

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 07:01:55 pm »
Or wait since this is is the consoles section maybe we should keep it to console versions only

Oh my god if I actually had a mega man 2 speedrun face off to settle some pissing match on a message board that would be awesome despite how sad it is at the same time
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 07:07:39 pm by bimm25e »

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4530
Re: Best starting controller to hack for multi console adapter compatibility
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 07:11:04 pm »
Naw dude, ---smurfin---’ metal!


---smurfing--- metal!!!!  zzzzzzzzz...


  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31