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Author Topic: Adding modelines  (Read 407 times)

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keilmillerjr

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Adding modelines
« on: November 01, 2017, 09:34:20 am »
Using crt emudriver 2.0. What is the appropriate way to add odd resolution mode lines for games without messing up resolutions for groovymame? I am using kof13 and it requires 640x360 resolution.

buttersoft

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 08:00:38 pm »
I seem to repost this every fortnight, so maybe we should sticky it or something :)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153488.msg1608259.html#msg1608259

Make sure to use the latest tools, V10 right now not V9

However, in your case it's going to be interesting. What sort of display are you using? A 640x360 mode falls outside the 15kHz range. I've managed to squeeze some 384i modes onto my PVMs, but they look like absolute ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I was trying to run model 2 this way, and i reckon a 2D game would look even worse.

VMM will still calculate the modeline you want to add from the monitor range you select, so set your VMM options first. You'll need to modify your range lines, info for which is in the monitor presets sticky.

What i'm saying is that i changed the InterlacedLinesMin in my range line from 448 to 384 and got away with it on my sets by manipulating other timings in ArcadeOSD. You'll either need to use a mode with too many lines and leave some blank - which GM is fine to do - or try and go as low as 360 lines. Even going to 384 did weird stuff to the vertical size, so 360 probably wouldn't sync at all for me. The PVM's i did this with were older ones also designed to showcase mid-80's microcomputers, so they might be a little more flexible.

If you have a 25kHz display you're fine, of course, just grab that monitor preset from the list and install the mode :)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 08:04:25 pm by buttersoft »

keilmillerjr

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 09:41:21 pm »
I seem to repost this every fortnight, so maybe we should sticky it or something :)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153488.msg1608259.html#msg1608259

Make sure to use the latest tools, V10 right now not V9

However, in your case it's going to be interesting. What sort of display are you using? A 640x360 mode falls outside the 15kHz range. I've managed to squeeze some 384i modes onto my PVMs, but they look like absolute ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I was trying to run model 2 this way, and i reckon a 2D game would look even worse.

VMM will still calculate the modeline you want to add from the monitor range you select, so set your VMM options first. You'll need to modify your range lines, info for which is in the monitor presets sticky.

What i'm saying is that i changed the InterlacedLinesMin in my range line from 448 to 384 and got away with it on my sets by manipulating other timings in ArcadeOSD. You'll either need to use a mode with too many lines and leave some blank - which GM is fine to do - or try and go as low as 360 lines. Even going to 384 did weird stuff to the vertical size, so 360 probably wouldn't sync at all for me. The PVM's i did this with were older ones also designed to showcase mid-80's microcomputers, so they might be a little more flexible.

If you have a 25kHz display you're fine, of course, just grab that monitor preset from the list and install the mode :)

I have a wg k7000. I know crt emu driver can do 640x360 resolution, letter boxing the top and bottom. However, I was not doing it the correct way and groovymame would not select video modes. So I am back at square one.

buttersoft

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 01:57:46 am »

keilmillerjr

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2017, 05:29:53 am »
So I am back at square one.

How so?

Back at square one, trying a different method.

So just to be sure, here is the method I should be following? Can you confirm?

Edit monitor preset in monitors.ini to allow 360 vertical lines

crt_range 0-9   HfreqMin-HfreqMax, VfreqMin-VfreqMax, HFrontPorch, HSyncPulse, HBackPorch, VfrontPorch, VSyncPulse, VBackPorch, HSyncPol, VSyncPol, ProgressiveLinesMin, ProgressiveLinesMax, InterlacedLinesMin, InterlacedLinesMax

Default (allowed interlaced range 448i-576i):
crt_range0  15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

Modified (allowed interlaced range 360i-576i):
crt_range0  15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 360, 576

Add new modeline to vmmaker

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153488.msg1608259.html#msg1608259

>>modelist import
>> modelist list
>> mode add 640x360@60.000000
>> modelist list
>> modelist install

buttersoft

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 05:36:16 pm »
Not *quite*.

That's how you add the resolution, but you need to make sure the calculated modeline will fall within the horizontal scan allowed by your range line, otherwise VMM won't generate it.

Dot clock = scan rate x horizontal resolution
Scan rate = vertical resolution x fps.

Vertical resolution there is *total* resolution which means visible lines + blanking interval.

atm you'll have 15625 as your scanrate's lower limit:

15625 = (360 + blanking) x ~60

The first thing to do will be to generate the mode with the information you typed in your post. If VMM will allow this mode and let you create it, then test it in ArcadeOSD. Right now it's going to have a huge vertical blanking pulse, on the order of 40% of the visible size, where normal is about 8%. This will probably mean that the modeline is letterboxed to look at, if it works at all. You'll need to use the physical size adjustment on the chassis to correct for this. The other thing to do is to keep adjusting the mode in ArcadeOSD, see how high you can get the fps, unlock the v-freq, play with everything you can. Remembering that you hit esc to go back on any unsaved changes if you lose sync.

If the above fails, try altering your range line for a lower scan limit, to about 15,500. Then go again. If that doesn't work, try a little lower. Some older sets will go into the 14kHz range, but i have no idea if this is normal. By the time you get to about 15kHz flat, if nothing has worked, i'd pack it in.

The modeline may never work at all, it's just something you'll have to try.

keilmillerjr

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2017, 07:38:42 pm »
Not *quite*.

That's how you add the resolution, but you need to make sure the calculated modeline will fall within the horizontal scan allowed by your range line, otherwise VMM won't generate it.

Dot clock = scan rate x horizontal resolution
Scan rate = vertical resolution x fps.

Vertical resolution there is *total* resolution which means visible lines + blanking interval.

atm you'll have 15625 as your scanrate's lower limit:

15625 = (360 + blanking) x ~60

The first thing to do will be to generate the mode with the information you typed in your post. If VMM will allow this mode and let you create it, then test it in ArcadeOSD. Right now it's going to have a huge vertical blanking pulse, on the order of 40% of the visible size, where normal is about 8%. This will probably mean that the modeline is letterboxed to look at, if it works at all. You'll need to use the physical size adjustment on the chassis to correct for this. The other thing to do is to keep adjusting the mode in ArcadeOSD, see how high you can get the fps, unlock the v-freq, play with everything you can. Remembering that you hit esc to go back on any unsaved changes if you lose sync.

If the above fails, try altering your range line for a lower scan limit, to about 15,500. Then go again. If that doesn't work, try a little lower. Some older sets will go into the 14kHz range, but i have no idea if this is normal. By the time you get to about 15kHz flat, if nothing has worked, i'd pack it in.

The modeline may never work at all, it's just something you'll have to try.

Well, I added the 640x360@60.000000 mode. It seems to just work. I attatched a photo of arcadeOSD. I am so lost in your crt lingo. Should I be making adjustments? Or leave it as is?

buttersoft

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2017, 12:34:45 am »
I am so lost in your crt lingo. Should I be making adjustments? Or leave it as is?

Well, the mode is pretty letterboxed. The difference being that in this case your system thinks that's all there is to the screen. So anything you run is going to look squashed. Adjusting things might help that.

You're going to want to adjust the vertical blanking to reduce the total vertical lines. I'd start by playing with some horizontal timings first, as those changes are more visible - adjust the first timing option two notches higher, hit enter, and the right side of the screen should move inwards. Have a play around with the other timings. Hit esc to go back if you get into trouble, and save any changes you like the look of.

Vertical timings make less immediate difference, it's more about thresholds built into the chassis. That said, go the edit modeline option, unlock v-freq (but do not let it go over ~65FPS when you make changes) and then adjust the v-total down a bit. Then hit enter, and if it works, go again. When it stops working, adjust the other vertical timings down a bit and try again. The other two timings probably won't do much. If you get things the right size, try lowering the FPS/vfreq and go again.

When you've made the modeline look as good as you can, with a framerate close to 60 if possible, save it. Now look at it again and write down as much info as you can - you want to specify a complete range line that will generate this exact modeline again because GM generates modes on the fly, it doesn't use your saved settings from ArcadeOSD. Then go to your GM folder, and create a folder called ini, and inside that copy your mame.ini and rename it kofX13.ini and remove everything except the crt_range 0 line, which you replace with your own.

The range line needs to look like those ones you wrote down in terms of layout, but the numbers in it should only generate the mode you want. This can mean that the  interlaced lines values are 360 for both min and max, but it doesn't have to so long as the line will produce a workable mode.

Calamity

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 07:49:40 am »
Two notes:

- The "copy modeline to clipboard" option comes very handy when you want to create custom configurations for GM (control+V into notepad to get the copied modeline).

- As a general rule, playing with vertical values is a waste of time, specially with arcade monitors. V-size is determined by hardware. With TVs or monitors that are designed to accept PAL/NTSC you can play with the values that trigger the switch of video standard to some extent, but usually you can't make any practical use of it.

PD: a working 360i mode is actually possible as demonstrated here, although I doubt someone would use it as a final solution. Unless you have a real EGA monitor that runs at that resolution natively, it's certainly an extreme compromise.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

buttersoft

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Re: Adding modelines
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 06:20:05 pm »
PD: a working 360i mode is actually possible as demonstrated here, although I doubt someone would use it as a final solution. Unless you have a real EGA monitor that runs at that resolution natively, it's certainly an extreme compromise.

Agreed. I should have made that point stronger from the outset.

You might be able to get it to work, but it isn't very adjustable save with the chassis controls for the physical size of the screen. Still it's a learning exercise.

  
 

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