Daytona USA article in The Guardian.

[MrThunderwing]

The Guardian newspaper recently ran an article about Daytona USA. Pretty impressive for an over 20 year old arcade racer to get a mention in the mainstream UK press.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/06/daytona-usa-arcade-racing-game-1993-sega-coin-op-driving

[POOTERMAN]

Good article Al, can't agree with their list of the 10 most influential racing games tho, what ya reckon? Half of them I'd happily throw under a bus... (including the journo as #1 - he didn't mention Chase HQ and #2 - from the looks of him he only left writing school last week and arcades in the UK had all but closed down when he was still in short trousers!)

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gallery/2017/may/26/retro-driving-games-in-pictures-night-driver-pole-position-and-out-run-to-daytona-usa-ridge-racer-and-gran-turismo

[MrThunderwing]

Yeah, I'd agree with about 50% of the choices, but the rest are a bit 'meh'. Virtua Racing should definitely be in there and probably Sega Rally too.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't know guys, that's probably the most definitive list you are going to see.  F1 GP and Test Drive really shouldn't be there, but I don't necessarily think Virtua Racing or Sega Rally should be in there either.  They are really good games, but that doesn't make them influential.  What's missing is Cruisin' USA to represent fantasy racers, Mario Kart to represent combative kart racers and Grand Turismo for the sims. 

[Malenko]

  What's missing is Cruisin' USA to represent fantasy racers, Mario Kart to represent combative kart racers and Grand Turismo for the sims.

Gran Turismo was #2 from the bottom.... (and is listed in the header of the "article")

[Howard_Casto]

I see it now... I have a stupid "don't use adblockers" pop-up obscuring it.  Sorry about that. 

[MrThunderwing]

I don't know guys, that's probably the most definitive list you are going to see.  F1 GP and Test Drive really shouldn't be there, but I don't necessarily think Virtua Racing or Sega Rally should be in there either.  They are really good games, but that doesn't make them influential.  What's missing is Cruisin' USA to represent fantasy racers, Mario Kart to represent combative kart racers and Grand Turismo for the sims.

Totally with you on Test Drive and F1 GP. My thinking behind Virtua Racing was due to the fact that it pretty much kickstarted the whole 3D polygon arcade racer genre (I know early polygon stuff like Hard Drivin' and Winning Run pre-date Virtua Racing, but I don't think they ever had the same impact). Likewise I feel that without Sega Rally the whole slew of Rally games that followed in its wake would never have happened. This could just be the Sega fanboy in me talking though 

Also totally with you on Mario Kart, pretty much kickstarted the whole Karting genre. Don't know if I'd included Crusin' USA though. I never really encountered any of the Crusin' games in the arcade when I was growing up (maybe they weren't as prevalent in the UK as the USA?) and never owned an N64. I'd add WipEout to the list myself, as I feel that it was very synonymous with Sony's branding of the PS1 as an 'edgier' more adult orientated alternative to Nintendo and Sega's consoles and was therefore influential in that way.

[BadMouth]

Also totally with you on Mario Kart, pretty much kickstarted the whole Karting genre.

I was about to say that Chase Bombers (arcade) was earlier, but checked the dates and Marko Kart predates it by 2 years.
 


The Cruisin' series has always seemed like a time waster to me, not a game I play to try to get better at.

[MrThunderwing]

Funnily enough, I dug my Dreamcast out of storage yesterday, to get some video capture for an upcoming video project I've got on the back burner, and one of the games I was video capturing was San Francisco Rush 2049. It's a fun game, but man it's got some pretty obnoxious rubber band AI, not helped by the fact the cars feel like they weigh as much as paper mache, judging by how easily they end up flipping over it you hit a bit of adverse camber. I must've spent about 5 hours trying to get a 1st place on the Civic track (hadn't intended to spend that long trying to do it) and best I could mange was 2nd.

[Howard_Casto]

That's why I mentioned Cruisin'  USA.   It kind of re-invigorated the "wacky" racing genre and I've gotta think that games like rush wouldn't be around without it.  Games like burnout also take heavy influence from it.  I'm not saying it was a great racer by any means, but it was influencial.  I also figure that a game with "USA" in the title probably did better here in the states. 

I can see virtua racing, but there were a lot of those early polygonal racers that released all at the same time.  Stunt Race FX comes to mind.   I think ridge racer kind of nailed that genre of racer and it's on the list. 

You could add Outrun 2 on there, but only to replace the test drive slot.  Those games he mentioned were "blue sky" games which were obviously inspired by sega arcade racers, particularly Outrun 2.  Then again Sega Rally is kind of blue sky as is Daytona usa.  Half the damn racing genre was invented by Sega.

[POOTERMAN]

I really don't want to upset anyone or trample on their childhood memories but I've been so surprised to read about the love for "The Cruisin' series" of games. I've seen it mentioned on so many different videos and web pages now and have always noticed that it's always posts or videos by people that live in the USA. I'd never even heard of the series until a few years ago since emulation became a thing and I was always in and out of the arcades in my youth here in the UK and never once spotted a single Cruisin' arcade machine in any of the many arcades I frequented back in the day. I've tried all the games in the series now and can't for the life of me understand why it's held in such great esteem and can only put it down to the nostalgia held for it if you played it when it was new on the scene as it where . We're the Cruisin' games only ever released in the USA or was it just that that was their biggest rollout area? My vote would without doubt go for Outrun, Sega Rally, Daytona,  Virtua Racing and finally Ridge Racer.  I'd say without hesitation that these are the best top 5 arcade racing games AND also the most influential too. Your Grand Turismo's, Test Drive's, Need For Speed's and Forza's only exist (in the home console and PC market) because somebody played one of those 5 arcade games and made their game for the home market. I can't imagine any developer ever saying that there new IP racing game was inspired by "F1GP", "Test Drive", or "Gran Turismo" as the influence behind their game can you guys? Night Driver and Pole position may have very well been among the first ever 3rd person driving games out there but I don't think their style of game play influenced the huge amount of racing games that those early Sega racing games did.

[Malenko]

Test Drive is on the list for being the first "MMO Driving game"

As for the Cruisin series..... I mean its a great throw away point to point time waster but its not a great game to me. If I break the fasted "lap record" by 8 seconds and come in last, then on the very same track go 25 seconds slower and win, the AI is likely a problem.   The Chicago track is the thing nightmares are made of in `USA.   World is probably my most favorite of the series, fun without being too goofy. Cruisin USA is the only one of the series I owned, and I wanted to swap World into it but could never find a PCB within my price range.

Im not going to get into the whole "new IP inspired" because Im pretty sure GT was inspired by Test Drive, and Forza was inspired by GT.

[MrThunderwing]

Night Driver and Pole position may have very well been among the first ever 3rd person driving games out there but I don't think their style of game play influenced the huge amount of racing games that those early Sega racing games did.

Yeah, totally agree with that. Sega was the Daddy when it came to arcade racing games throughout the late 80's and early to mid-nineties. I'd give Namco an honourable mention too, they made some solid arcade racers (and to this day Ridge Racer Type 4 remains one of my all time favourite PS1 games) but in my mind they just were never quite up to the same level of design, aesthetics and playability as the best Sega racers. I'll give Pole Position its dues though. It wasn't a game I can say I ever really played as a kid, but it was definitely a game I was aware of through popular culture at the time. I definitely remember seeing it feature in a film called D.A.R.Y.L. years ago (just checked, D.A.R.Y.L.came out in 1985 so I would've been 9 years old then) I also can't help but hear this in my head whenever I think of Pole Position. It's damn catchy.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't.  Night driver showed developers how to make a racing game in third person...  you keep the car in a stationary position and warp the "road" around it.  Pole position showed how to do it on a sprite based game and then outrun showed how to do elevation changes and scaling of objects.  From a programmer's perspective it's quite obvious how they influenced games.  Without Pole Position there would be no Outrun and without Night driver there wouldn't be third person racers at all.

I get the feeling that you guys think that a game has to be a clone of another game to have been influenced by it, and that isn't the case.  An influential game can inspire a whole new genre, or just be a evolutionary step for one very important game.

[yotsuya]

I’ll fistfight any man who disses Night Driver.

[yotsuya]

I don't.  Night driver showed developers how to make a racing game in third person...  you keep the car in a stationary position and warp the "road" around it.  Pole position showed how to do it on a sprite based game and then outrun showed how to do elevation changes and scaling of objects.  From a programmer's perspective it's quite obvious how they influenced games.  Without Pole Position there would be no Outrun and without Night driver there wouldn't be third person racers at all.

I get the feeling that you guys think that a game has to be a clone of another game to have been influenced by it, and that isn't the case.  An influential game can inspire a whole new genre, or just be a evolutionary step for one very important game.

Wise words, Mr. Casto

[POOTERMAN]

So what if it's the first example of it's kind? it means nothing apart from gaining a label as 'being the first' of it's type and therefore historians deem that it must be classed as therefore being influential? At the end of the day "Night Driver" and "Pole Position" are long forgotten titles that 99.9% of people (apart from yotsua obviously;) don't care about and they never ever get a mention today unless it's in a shite article like the one mentioned above. You simply can't say that about the early Sega racers as they still get a regular mention today even after 25 years because they are very good games that still stand the test of time and obviously influence current day racing titles. Was anybody in 2001, 25 years after the release of "Night Driver" saying what a really great game it still is, or not so long ago in 2007 were people lighting up the forums saying how great "Pole Position" was and how they're so happy that they can play it on their home PC's\Cabs via emulation finally? No, thought not.

[yotsuya]

So what if it's the first example of it's kind? it means nothing apart from gaining a label as 'being the first' of it's type and therefore historians deem that it must be classed as therefore being influential? At the end of the day "Night Driver" and "Pole Position" are long forgotten titles that 99.9% of people (apart from yotsua obviously;) don't care about and they never ever get a mention today unless it's in a shite article like the one mentioned above. You simply can't say that about the early Sega racers as they still get a regular mention today even after 25 years because they are very good games that still stand the test of time and obviously influence current day racing titles. Was anybody in 2001, 25 years after the release of "Night Driver" saying what a really great game it still is, or not so long ago in 2007 were people lighting up the forums saying how great "Pole Position" was and how they're so happy that they can play it on their home PC's\Cabs via emulation finally? No, thought not.

Go to KLOV and see how many people have signed up for the replacement Pole Position board and then tell me it’s not a highly desired, very influential game.

Go back and read what Howard wrote.

[MrThunderwing]

I get the feeling that you guys think that a game has to be a clone of another game to have been influenced by it, and that isn't the case.  An influential game can inspire a whole new genre, or just be a evolutionary step for one very important game.

That's a fair point. I was basing my thinking pretty much entirely on the games that I felt had had the biggest influence in terms of the most copycat, or at least very similar, racing  titles that followed after their release. Night Driver isn't something that I would've ever thought of in that regard,  based purely on the fact it was something I never encountered in an arcade  when I was younger, but I take on board your point about the 'evolutionary step' and how it paved the way for pretty much all the third person racing games that followed.