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Author Topic: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)  (Read 3742 times)

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Paradroid

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Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« on: October 05, 2017, 08:13:25 pm »
G'day BYOAC'ers,

Ever since I first caught wind of this game a couple years back, I've been daydreaming about building a dedicated cab when it was released.

Well, it's finally out now and the response seems to be overwhelmingly positive. To be honest, I haven't actually played the game myself yet but I'm already in love with it: the whole concept really speaks to me and all indications are that Studio MDHR have made their crazy idea a reality.

It seems I'm not the only one that sees the potential in a Cuphead cab so it'll be interesting to see if anyone else attempts something similar...

This will be my first scratch-build and also the first project I've taken the time to document at BYOAC. No set timeline (finishing by Christmas would be nice... but probably unrealistic) and the only other fixed parameters are that it's "CRT or nothing" and I'm abstaining from actually playing the game (aside from testing) until the project is completed. :)

Wish me luck... :P
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Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 08:15:11 pm »
Project Plan

Reserved for forthcoming project plan.

Specifications:

Display
  • CRT
  • 16:9 aspect ratio
  • Progressive scan (i.e. 480p)
  • Preferably direct RGB input (but component is an option)
Audio

Controls
  • iPac encoder
Computer

Cabinet
  • Perspex
  • Backlit by flouro light
Marquee

Configuration
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 07:48:57 pm by Paradroid »
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n3wt0n

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 08:36:21 pm »
This would be awesome and reminds me of the great job a member did on a dedicated cab when Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime came out. As far as I know, this game is currently only playable in 16:9 ratio so CRT may have a bit of wasted space unless you find one of those badass Sony widescreen CRT's.

Paradroid

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First CRT candidate
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 08:37:15 pm »
After getting excited about this idea earlier in the week, I scanned Trade Me (I live in the South Island of New Zealand) and chanced upon a 16:9 CRT with VGA input!

I have a couple other Philips Matchline III 4:3 CRTs in my shed and their image quality is exceptional using the VGA input. Hopefully this unit lives up to expectations!





My concerns are:
  • How do you design a widescreen cab that doesn't look ugly? (Sorry, I'm a child of the 80/90s... in my mind nothing's real arcade machine without a 4:3 CRT).
  • How do you build a 52 kg CRT into a cab and not have it want to topple over?!
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keilmillerjr

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 07:29:23 am »
That game looks awesome!!!

A lot of widescreen crt cabs were either sit down enclosed style (think Star Wars or jurrasic park) or pedastol. I'd build a pedastool. Some space between screen and player is needed for larger screens anyways.

n3wt0n

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 08:00:26 am »
Nice find on the widescreen CRT! I think a widescreen could be really cool. You may just have to get a really good bezel design. Think of all the design real estate vertical games had for bezels in their cab - this would be the same but horizontal. You may have to work with the tilt angle of the screen a bit to get the weight of the glass more evenly distributed over the entire base of the cab but lots of games did this like Konami cabs for NBA Jam, Mortal Kombat II, etc. Golden Tee is another cab that had a pretty severe screen angle. Good luck, you are going to have to build a beast of a cab to support that. Looking forward to seeing this thing built.

Ian

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 12:31:14 pm »
Just an idea or to inspire you a bit...

« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 04:06:13 pm by Ian »
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morton

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 08:05:56 pm »
the game looks awesome and you have a good cabinet in the making. i too have been daydreaming of a cab like this after seeing that black and white video the other day... glad someones gonna do it.

Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 04:55:31 am »


You may have to work with the tilt angle of the screen a bit to get the weight of the glass more evenly distributed over the entire base of the cab but lots of games did this like Konami cabs for NBA Jam, Mortal Kombat II, etc. Golden Tee is another cab that had a pretty severe screen angle.

I Googled those cabs to remind me of the screen angle and you're right: since the tube I end up with will most likely be 32 inch (due to availability), there's gonna need to be a fair bit of angling to distribute weight and also get some distance from the player's eyes.

The other issue is designing something that'll maneuver  through a standard door frame. Time will tell if that's possible...
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Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 04:57:35 am »
Just an idea or to inspire you a bit...


Glorious, eh?! :)

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keilmillerjr

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 08:32:54 am »


You may have to work with the tilt angle of the screen a bit to get the weight of the glass more evenly distributed over the entire base of the cab but lots of games did this like Konami cabs for NBA Jam, Mortal Kombat II, etc. Golden Tee is another cab that had a pretty severe screen angle.

I Googled those cabs to remind me of the screen angle and you're right: since the tube I end up with will most likely be 32 inch (due to availability), there's gonna need to be a fair bit of angling to distribute weight and also get some distance from the player's eyes.

The other issue is designing something that'll maneuver  through a standard door frame. Time will tell if that's possible...

Like I said - do a pedastool. They are module. Usually three pieces. The monitor section will fit through a door sideways and can use a dolly if designed with an even side (no pertrusions). One person carry the bridge. Two people lift and carry the control panel.

A conventional cabinet with a large wide screen would just be huge and cumbersome. Get tips by going to Dave and busters. Look at the shooters like time crisis and such. I know newer games have LCD and a super thin bridge, but you get the idea. The bridge not only to connect controls, but could be used as bracing.

Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 07:55:52 pm »
Like I said - do a pedastool. They are module. Usually three pieces. The monitor section will fit through a door sideways and can use a dolly if designed with an even side (no pertrusions).
I appreciate the advice: there are aspects of a pedestal design that would make the project more practical but, for me, there's no love there. I have a few fond memories of playing Last Blade 2 on a mega rear-projection pedestal setup in Timezone but, aside from that, all the amazing pedestal work I see here just leaves me cold.:dunno

It is a good point though, if the only way to make a 16:9 CRT work is to build a cab the size of a Port-a-loo then it may be a non-starter...
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pbj

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 12:59:39 am »
Pedastool?

Port a loo?

Can't grow your own vegetables?

 :timebomb:

Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 01:27:38 am »
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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 06:19:25 am »
What's your overall design aesthetic?  Are you going for that 1930s woodgrain TV unit look?  Something else?

I love the visual design of Cuphead, and have been trying to imagine what a dedicated cab for it (and a number of other indie games out lately) would look like.  I'm keen to see your progress on this one.

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2017, 06:47:45 am »
Could always get a smaller trinitron wega (widescreen crt). A smaller tv would make sense in a cab that you don't want to be enormous. Trinitron wegas are common and people still use them where I live. We even have some knock off of it too. Just an idea.

Easter

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2017, 05:52:23 pm »
You inspired me to try in my cab and it works brilliantly!
Just a 640x480i CRT Sony Trinitron but playability is spot on so far.
I need more buttons, and she playing Ďpress Zí doesnít re-map if you remap the jump / firee etc.
Thanks  :)


Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2017, 04:41:28 am »


Just a 640x480i CRT Sony Trinitron but playability is spot on so far.
Nice! Cool cab, BTW. You retrofitted a Trini in there?! Nice!

Yeah, button layout is gonna be interesting...

I count: shoot, jump, lock, dash, ex shot and switch weapon. Keen to come up with something logical based on usage in-game rather than just roll with a standard layout. We'll see...

Busy Monday but found 30 mins to mess around with this 32 inch Grundig that I picked for $2 recently. RGB via SCART but the picture is mangled by the dreaded 100 Hz processing.

Didn't have time start creating and testing 16:9 modelines yet... Just wanted to try to get some perspective on just how big a 32 inch widescreen is (or isn't).

Laptop and NZ standard issue control panel provide perspective.

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barrymossel

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2017, 05:53:12 am »
My potential favorite build! This game looks so cool and if you manage to stay close to the design, the cabinet should become fantastic!

vwalbridge

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2017, 11:07:54 am »
You need to build in a Black and White mode:



Full gameplay here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPcYW9dTAUw
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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2017, 05:01:28 pm »
I count: shoot, jump, lock, dash, ex shot and switch weapon. Keen to come up with something logical based on usage in-game rather than just roll with a standard layout. We'll see...

Yeah - I'd recommend playing for a while so you know what buttons you need.  You'll also need [escape] to come out of menus, shops etc. You may need some more so probably better to play so you know what you need!

Having played for a bit tonight:
 * Game is superb for an arcade build.  Feels 'just right'.  It's very hard though!
 * I need more than 4 buttons.
 * You can remap the buttons, but when it says 'press Z' you need to press 'z'.
 * Looks great on my 25" CRT, even with top and bottom borders.  You don't even notice them the CRT is so black!
 * Resolution looks great, even though it's 480i with borders.  It must be missing details but you don't notice.
 * The beauty of having is like this is it can be a multi-purpose cab and not humungous!

Good luck with the project, I can't wait to see what you do with it!

zinger

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2017, 07:32:12 pm »
Having played for a bit tonight:
 * I need more than 4 buttons.
 * You can remap the buttons, but when it says 'press Z' you need to press 'z'.

All that shouldn't be a problem. With an I-PAC you can reassign the keycodes so that a button can map to 'Z' or 'z'.

Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 11:05:36 pm »
You need to build in a Black and White mode

B&W looks cool, eh?! Apparently there is an inbuilt monochrome mode to unlock: Cuphead Secrets Guide: How To Unlock Black-And-White Mode And More

You can remap the buttons, but when it says 'press Z' you need to press 'z'.
All that shouldn't be a problem. With an I-PAC you can reassign the keycodes so that a button can map to 'Z' or 'z'.

That's weird... a bug, I guess. Will be interesting to see if they come out with many updates in the coming months.

Yes, I'm planning on using an I-PAC so I'm confident any controller quirks can be accommodated.
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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2017, 07:04:18 pm »
If I were you, I'd rethink the i-Pac encoder and go with hacked Xbox 360 controllers instead.  Most Steam games are Xinput friendly now, some even abandoning proper keyboard controls altogether.

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Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2017, 07:30:27 pm »
I'd rethink the i-Pac encoder and go with hacked Xbox 360 controllers instead. Most Steam games are Xinput friendly now, some even abandoning proper keyboard controls altogether.

Thanks for the tip! I have both gadgets on hand so at some stage I'll dive deep and determine if the I-PAC will do the job or not. I have no aversion to hacking a Xbox controller. In fact, it would probably be a fun (and maybe cheaper?) detour. :)

For me, the CRT display is the bright shining center of an arcade cabinet so I'm waiting on Mainfreight to collect and deliver the monster Philips 32 inch 16:9 CRT that I purchased. Once that arrives I'll determine whether it's going to be possible to build a cab that will house that tube and also squeeze through a standard 820 mm Aussie/Kiwi door frame. If the answer is "yes", then the rest of the project will pickup pace.

In my mind, controls are less of a concern (because you can still buy everything new) whereas CRT choices are limited to what surfaces on the second-hand market (and the bulk of NZ's CRT are already 6 foot under).
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Paradroid

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Artwork
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2017, 05:40:50 pm »
In my mind, any artwork considerations were weeks away until I saw these:







Would be amazing to have one or two of these as the cabinet side art!!! :D

Found on Twitter. I'm hoping the artist will give me permission to have them printed up somehow...
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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2017, 10:24:35 am »
That would look bloody awful.



Also keep in mind that if you use this, you have to come up with something in a similar style for the marquee, the CP and possibly a bezel.
                  

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2017, 11:03:34 am »
That would look bloody awful.



Also keep in mind that if you use this, you have to come up with something in a similar style for the marquee, the CP and possibly a bezel.

Word.

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2017, 11:34:18 am »
That would look bloody awful.



Also keep in mind that if you use this, you have to come up with something in a similar style for the marquee, the CP and possibly a bezel.

Word.

Agreed. Iím not feeling it at all.
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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2017, 11:36:47 am »
Slap these things on either side.  Done.




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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 11:39:40 am »
Slap these things on either side.  Done.



THIS ^. And then just put the title CUPHEAD under their feet. DONE. Do NOT over-think the art.
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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2017, 12:09:07 pm »
Collages always suck.

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2017, 02:50:21 pm »
Collages always suck.



True dat.  Especially when they contain raspberry pies.

Paradroid

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2017, 09:12:45 pm »
Well, the opinion leaders have spoken! ;D

That would look bloody awful.



Thanks for taking the time to mock that up... in that context, I can see it would definitely be problematic as is.

The framing could be improved if the artist provided non-cropped images allowing for more considered centering and (for the first example) additional whitespace. You know, like this kinda thing:



Also keep in mind that if you use this, you have to come up with something in a similar style for the marquee, the CP and possibly a bezel.

Yes, that's actually my biggest concern with that art style: I don't have the skills required to produce additional complimentary artwork. To make it work I'd have to contrast the hectic side art with something austere on the control panel and marquee.

Agreed. Iím not feeling it at all.

Is it a taste thing or an "it just ain't gonna work" thing? I like gaudy '80s art. Gives me that fuzzy yesteryear feeling (just like arcade games themselves).

Collages always suck.

I agree, but, strictly speaking, they're not collages. This is a collage:



Slap these things on either side. Done.



Yep, sure. In my defense, my original intention (and also still a safe bet) was to take the supplied official art, convert to vector, arrange to size and print.

Marquee:



Then stick a character on each side:



This would married to a wood grain cab (like some of the others I've put together):



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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2017, 01:07:19 am »
I keep saying that a cabinet for this game needs to have both protagonists on the sides. One on each.  And the tops of the side panels of the cab need to contour to the top of their art.  Think Burger Time. Hell, a wide-body variant of the burger time cab would be ideal.  That would allow for a 16:9 CRT, and two player controls.  I'd use them as a starting point, figure the width of a de-cased 16:9 monitor and use that plus a little extra as your width.  Mock it up, maybe in Sketchup quickly. If you are serious and have a good plan/concept in place i don't see why you couldn't approach the Moldenhauer's to get actual vector artwork for the whole cab. ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, maybe if your mockup and planning is on point and they can they might help you out. leave the top of the design somewhat open ended as to fit the sideart like the chefs hat does. Getting art from the source has happened a few times before for some of us. a HUGE part of the look of a cab is it's art package. it was 50% of my DK build.  Hell, they're also Canadian, so the worst thing they'll say is a very polite "No".  :)

CAD is available as a starting point...
http://www.classicarcadecabinets.com/burgertime.html

I've been wanting to build this cabinet for some time now. Red and blue bat top sticks with matching red and blue gold-leaf buttons from Ultimarc. Same branded matching yellow for the primary cab colour with a slightly darker then medium grey (instead of blue like on B.T.), and black for the kickplate and inside walls....   I just have too many restoration projects on my plate these days to take up a scratch build. 


« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 01:15:01 am by ChanceKJ »

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2017, 08:57:20 am »
I agree with Chance! Contact the MDHR team for official assets or even a chat about what an official promotional cab would look like in their eyes if it were to ever happen.

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2017, 02:08:39 pm »
                  

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2017, 02:33:20 pm »
^ No. 

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2017, 02:34:52 pm »
Ugh. No.

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Re: Cuphead dedicated cab (feasibility study stage)
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2017, 02:48:13 pm »
Think Burger Time. Hell, a wide-body variant of the burger time cab would be ideal. 

How the hell are you going to squeeze an aircraft carrier into the design if you do that?
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2016 thomas_surles choice award
2017 International Evil Buddhist Award

Latest project: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,150902.0.html
RedheadKingPinball aka GingerBalls

KI to Open Ice Conversion: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152600.0.html

  
 

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