Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: 4 player Warlords?  (Read 598 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
4 player Warlords?
« on: August 21, 2017, 05:14:22 pm »
Does anyone know if a Pi can handle or play 4player Warlords via mame?
Using 4 usb spinners?

It would be kind of expensive including a new cocktail wg flat panel along with 4 retro spinners....so it wouldn't be a good "fail" project.

4 player atari 2600 wouldn't be too cheap either with getting a 4 player console and two sets of paddles....

Nothing better than a 4 player melee...if you think Gauntlet is the definition of 4 player fun...try warlords.  :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 05:16:38 pm by 1500points »

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 12:11:31 pm »
As far as I know Warlords had potentiometers, not spinners. So that would be the same as two analog joysticks when it comes to input.
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6362
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 01:45:39 pm »
As far as I know Warlords had potentiometers, not spinners. So that would be the same as two analog joysticks when it comes to input.
You are correct, Matsadona.  Warlords used potentiometers.

Warlords also works fine in MAME with spinners, but at ~$70 each, that gets very expensive.

If you want to reduce the costs, Mark, you can:

1. Use long-life Honeywell/Clarostat RV4 series potentiometers with an analog encoder.
- A-pac or KADE miniArcade 2.0 are good encoder choices.
- U-HID Nano doesn't have enough inputs.
- U-HID would work, but is far more expensive.
- You can assign the player and admin buttons to gamepad buttons.

2. Use rotary encoders like this one or this one (quadrature waveform outputs) with an optical encoder. (translates quadrature waveforms into mouse movements)
- Opti-Wiz (2 ea.) or StefanBurger's Illuminated Spinner firmware for Arduino (2 ea.) are good optical encoder choices.
- You will need to enable multimouse
- The potential difficulty with the rotary encoders linked above is mounting them -- I have a few ideas that might be helpful.
- You will also need a separate encoder for the player and admin buttons.


Scott

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 04:15:20 pm »
Cool info.  Looks like an interesting project to explore the KADE and pots sounds like the path of least resistance (ha ha, almost a pun)
thank you.

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 08:32:15 am »
Cossackwarrior on klov sells the original 5k pots with the clutch that warlords used.  Pricey though.

I am going to try out a turbo twist spinner i have laying around, with retropie first to see how much lag is felt.

If it is acceptable I will proceed.   I have access to a trashed midway cabaret with a 13in crt and an arpicade pcb so I hope pi does warlords adequately


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6362
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 10:47:45 am »
midway cabaret with a 13in crt
So . . . you want to hang a 4 player control panel . . . off a cabaret with a 13 inch CRT?   ???   :dizzy:

You could make a well-proportioned 4 player cocktail with a 13" CRT, but you may want to seriously consider using a larger monitor/cabinet for an upright 4 player build.

KLOV Warlords monitor info for 2-player upright cab and 4-player cocktail:
Quote
Upright: four color overlay, 22-inch Wells Gardner monitor, half-silvered mirror reflects a backdrop of castle walls and battlegrounds Cocktail: 14-inch color Sanyo monitor, no overlay


Scott

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 10:55:02 am »
midway cabaret with a 13in crt
So . . . you want to hang a 4 player control panel . . . off a cabaret with a 13 inch CRT?   ???   :dizzy:

You could make a well-proportioned 4 player cocktail with a 13" CRT, but you may want to seriously consider using a larger monitor/cabinet for an upright 4 player build.

KLOV Warlords monitor info for 2-player upright cab and 4-player cocktail:
Quote
Upright: four color overlay, 22-inch Wells Gardner monitor, half-silvered mirror reflects a backdrop of castle walls and battlegrounds Cocktail: 14-inch color Sanyo monitor, no overlay


Scott

This would be a custom cocktail build. 

Where I am in Iowa and the resources available there is zero chance of obtaining a larger crt monitor. Everyone in the hobby who has a spare monitor will not give one up.
So I make due when I come across a trashed cab which is quite unoften. ;)

If this ends up working out I would likely rebuild a bigger cocktail with a new wells gardner flatpanel for cocktails but that is a fast $200.  Uggh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6362
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 11:01:49 am »
This would be a custom cocktail build. 
Sounds good, Mark.   :cheers:


Scott

Spawn2k

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 11:22:58 pm »
Any update on this topic? Did the pi handle 4 spinners ok?

ark_ader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5344
  • Present for you Grandfather...
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 03:12:19 am »
Any update on this topic? Did the pi handle 4 spinners ok?

Why not use mice for spinner control?  I have been doing it for donkey years.
"I really do feel pity for those who go out of their way to perform a personal slight, than taking the effort in joining the conversation and creating some useful dialogue which would benefit the persons' perusal of this topic.  Yet where would we be without the persistant antagonist?"

Spawn2k

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 05:15:57 pm »
Well I assume a turbo twist or spintrak spinner is emulating a usb mouse. Just looking for more info before committing to build a dedicated warlords cab.

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6362
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 06:01:54 pm »
Well I assume a turbo twist or spintrak spinner is emulating a usb mouse.
Correct.  The GGG OptiWiz and Ultimarc optical encoders are USB HID mouse devices.

Just looking for more info before committing to build a dedicated warlords cab.
Reply #2 above has the basic control/encoder requirements.   ;D

What further info are you seeking?


Scott
EDIT: Mark got the spinners working with MAME on a Pi.  Info here.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 06:24:35 pm by PL1 »

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 02:58:12 am »
What is the purpose of proceeding with spinners for a dedicated Warlords cabinet when it will make the build more complex and expensive?  ???
And it would be less authentic when it comes to game play, since there is quite a big difference in the controls with a fixed potentiometer and an endless rotating spinner...

Of course everyone is free to do as he/she wants, so the question above is just by pure curiosity. In this hobby I consider every build as a good build. Eh well, almost every one since there are some examples of builds that would be better never built  ;D
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

Spawn2k

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 04:02:06 am »
I wouldn't mind using pots but i never used them before. What pot specifically /  knobs would work? Using a spinner seemed less complex with a verity of knobs and pretty common. I'm also building the control panel with 3/4" plywood so im not sure how the pot would be mounted.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 04:06:20 am by Spawn2k »

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
4 player Warlords?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 09:00:43 am »
First attempt at uploading pics from phone....
Project update.  Pots came in mail. They have hard stops.  Medical use clarostat 5k with knobs 7.50 apiece shipped.  Shaft is long so plenty of space to build a proper mount in a 3/4 panel.

A-Pac in mail and hoping it really does make 4 usb mouse inputs for the pots.

Here is a turbo twist that does work well in retropie advance mame warlords.  I got it from chopper on here.

Saw this cocktail on facebook yesterday.  Very clean layout and design of the original. Need to look up more google pics.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 09:02:29 am »
Also,  the turbo twist knob does fit on the pot shaft but it is so heavy that might end up destructive to the pot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spawn2k

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 01:55:04 am »
First attempt at uploading pics from phone....
Project update.  Pots came in mail. They have hard stops.  Medical use clarostat 5k with knobs 7.50 apiece shipped.  Shaft is long so plenty of space to build a proper mount in a 3/4 panel.

I seen an ebay listing for something like that. only had 3 left though. what is the label on the back of the pot?

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
4 player Warlords?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 08:48:51 am »
53c1    5000-s   19-9003  stamped into back.   A-pac arrived need to prep wiring on pots next

That auction you saw is probably same as he had seven until I bought 4

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 12:44:24 pm by 1500points »

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 08:21:59 am »
Thanks to big help from Scott the proof of concept for the 4 paddles works in mame from pc with the a-pac and 5k clarostat pots!!!!!

The details here- http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,155328.0.html

For the final Warlords project I'll need to figure out how to fill out the advance mame .rc file so it'll all work in Retropie.
Got some hints on how to get started from the Retropie forum here- https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/12972/ultimarc-a-pac-with-5k-potentiometers/6

Spawn2k

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 03:13:58 pm »
How did the pot work for you? I have decided to go with pots instead of spinners for my project as well. The best reason i found to use pots were due to accurately predicting where the paddle will be. So turning clockwise then turning back to the starting position would be on point. When I tried to find the data sheet on your pots it said they were s taper and not linear. Did the speed  twisting back at forth feel even to you?

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 04:03:19 pm »
yah, very even in warlords (you saw it doesn't work well as a spinner for tempest, etc which would need a turbo twist type spinner)
with the warlords movement, the player gets to the end of travel before the pots, too so there shouldn't be any wild banging of the stops beyond typical.

I was able to get pc/mame to map the pots just fine from the mame/tab gui.

Retropie advance mame doesn't allow you to set the analog joystick axis' from the tab gui.
Asked at Retropie
https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/12972/ultimarc-a-pac-with-5k-potentiometers/14
UPDATE- I figured out the advmame.rc entries for the paddles so now warlords in pi works with 4 player controls.
One of my pots is acting flakey so I'll have to dig into the mechanics of it.  They were brand new out of box but look like they'll come apart.


Also someone mentioned paddles work in Stella (not lr-stella) so I'll explore that in the future.  Having the atari paddle games would be a grand slam!

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:56:04 pm by 1500points »

Spawn2k

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 05:39:22 pm »
So are you going to build a cocktail cab for this project or are you converting a cab?

1500points

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
    • How to succeed at Robotron
Re: 4 player Warlords?
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 06:50:47 pm »
So are you going to build a cocktail cab for this project or are you converting a cab?

Just a cocktail. I like how that cocktail in The pic above looks.   Probably make the top half with the lcd and electronics.  Then a removable base below


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31