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Author Topic: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab  (Read 2198 times)

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richardoswald

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PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« on: August 19, 2017, 10:17:01 pm »
Hello All,

Long time reader, first time poster. I am in the planning/designing stage of my first arcade cabinet! Most of my arcade memories were throughout the 90's and I'm a sucker for fighting games and beat-em ups. A few months back I setup a RetroPi system out of a Raspberry Pi 3 and I'm loving that already just plugged into my TV, nothing fancy, which started a spark to finally plan my build! I couldn't be more excited!

For my first cab I want to do it right as it may be the only one I ever build. For the brains of the system I'm imagining a RetroPi (for classic 90's era arcade games), a PS3 (mostly collecting dust right now, but I have a number of fighting games for it), and PS4 (I would probably be moving this back and forth from my main TV to the cabinet, but lots of great fighting games already on this one, with more to come).

My dilemma:
I'm looking for ideas or advice on how to connect the arcade controls to these three systems, with the ability to switch between the systems. If any of you have ideas or could point me in the right direction maybe to equipment or a similar project I could learn from, I would be very grateful.

Here are the bullet points so far:

Brains:
RetroPi on Raspberry Pie 3
PS3
PS4

Controller:
4 - Player controls (must be compatible with PS3, PS4, and RetroPi)
11 buttons per player (8 PS buttons + Select + Start + Home), still debating if that's overkill and might reduce # of buttons for players 3 & 4
Buttons to switch between the three systems.

Other devices:
32" LCD TV
LED lights
Coin Door
3.1 sound
Volume knob w/ headphone jack
Pull out tray for Keyboard and Mouse.

Must have games:
Mortal Kombat Series
Street Fighter Series
VS. Series (x-men vs SF, Marvel vs. Capcom)
Beat-em ups (Ninja Turtles, Simpsons, Alien vs. Predator)
NBA Jam
X-Men
Avengers
NEO GEO games

Inspirational cabs  :notworthy::
ChanceKJ's FLYNN'S ARCADE
aspirex's Pathway Cabinet Build
deezdrama's MortalKab

My Sketch


My Connection Diagram (so far) just to give you an idea of what I'm looking for. I'm sure this will have to change:


Thank you for your time and for any suggestions !  :)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 11:41:01 pm by richardoswald »
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thomas_surles

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 02:48:41 pm »
What 4 player game needs that many buttons?

richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 03:16:24 pm »
What 4 player game needs that many buttons?
Good question. Definitely only need those amount of buttons for PS3/PS4 couch co-op games and you might be surprised how many there are for 4 players. A good list here:  http://www.co-optimus.com/system/2/playstation-3.html

Mortal Kombat 9 actually had 4-player co-op and it was a lot of fun!

Just a concept for now, at the very minimum it would be 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.


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reptileink

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 05:35:45 pm »
Can the PS systems, and build a 4 player fighting/beat em up cab.

Nobody can smash 11 buttons for ANY game successfully.  :dizzy:

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rablack97

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 11:15:40 pm »
Marquee my brother  :cheers:

The problem with 30 day deadlines, is that you dont think things through.

Before you build a disaster, let me stop you here on the multi-console idea....don't do it.

Your going to run into issues for the controls, it's really not worth the hassle.  Last i heard ps4 controls are only emulated by a hacked stick or the brooks fighting boards, which run 90.00 a piece per player.

PS3 and retropie controls are feasible on other cheaper devices, but you'd have to setup up one helluva smart relay board to switch the controls over to the correct control device, and relays are known to fail.

From what it looks like you just want a mame machine, you might wanna go PC as that would cover your list, not sure why you want a PS3 or PS4 console coupled with MAME.  Really sit down and think about what games your really going to play the most.  Dont cram alot of crud in there for a one game fix.

The 8 8 8 8 panel is  :whap not a good idea at all.  It's just ugly, and emulating mk9 4 player will be slow as hell.

Rethink your plan man, downsize and make it more efficient to what your really going to play.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 11:17:39 pm by rablack97 »
   

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richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 01:51:04 am »
Thanks guys for the input. I do realize 8 8 8 8 may be a bit overkill so that definitely might change. That deadline is definitely soft to give me something to aim for, I'm DEFINITELY not going to rush this by any means. But button count and deadlines aside, I REALLY want to at least try the multi-console route and must something together before even attempting to build the cab.

I'm going to start small by connecting my PS3 and Rasberry Pi to the same PS3 Joystick I have and go from there. But need to figure out how. Maybe an HDMI/USB KVM ???

I also saw this video on youtube and it's almost exactly what I want, but need to know how to have a button switch the video and controller input at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3mtOyWnILc&t=15s
The description states using a Jamma Connector, but still not crystal clear on how they have this working on their setup. Any ideas?

BTW, rablack97 that MK cab is a masterpiece!
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EssexMame

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 05:22:07 am »
Regarding PS3 and PS4, ask yourself - do you EVER stand up to play your PS3/PS4 currently? Because, in a cabinet, that is essentially what you'd be doing.

As others have said, keep the cabinet as the RetroPi - arcade games - and play the PS3/PS4 as intended - on a couch, with a PS controller.

richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 01:55:13 am »
Thank you guys again for your input, but I'm stubborn as hell. If it doesn't work in the end at least I tried and I can only blame myself. So on with the show!

My first concept behind the scenes didn't work out. It involved the below equipment in case anyone's curious:
Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 joystick for PS3
IST Pre-Installed Brook PS3/PS4/PC Fight Board PCB Kit https://www.focusattack.com/ist-pre-installed-brook-ps3-ps4-pc-fight-board-pcb-kit/
4-Port USB 3.0 powered HUB https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TPMEOYM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
HDMI KVM https://www.amazon.com/KVM-4UHM-4x1-USB-HDMI-KVM/dp/B00IVBGW6G

Problems with above setup. The PS4's Home button stopped working after switching Video inputs on the KVM. That particular KVM was also was slow and had some syncing issues.

I had to rethink a few things and thanks to this thread on Shoryuken forums http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/194825/third-party-ps4-padhack-options/, was introduced to the Hori Fight Commander 4 which they successfully pad hacked. I now have my concept working with the following equipment:
Hori Fight Commander 4 (PS3/PS4/PC)
4-Port USB 3.0 powered HUB (same USB port as above)
A different HDMI KVM https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M1GRZ1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The great thing with this is the HFC4 has a system selector switch, so I can now successfully switch the input on the KVM, flip the SPDT switch on the HFC4 to the system I'm using and all buttons are working. This KVM is also speedier that the last one.

Here are my next steps in which I'm struggling with
1. Rewire the gamepad to turn the 3-way SPDT switch into three separate buttons (one for each system).
2. Once I can do that successfully my plan is to daisy chain those system buttons across all 4 gamepads.
3. I will then have to wire in the KVM somehow to switch the video and USB connections.

I'm testing step one with a multimeter but can't change the inputs from the pins where the SPDT switch use to be. Can anyone help me with step 1?

Here is a new diagram I drew up and the PCB of the device:
Diagram:


Hori Fight Commander 4 - Front:

3-way SPDT switch on HFC4 - Front:

3-way SPDT switch on HFC4 - Back:


Thanks again for listening. As always any help would be appreciated!
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Mike A

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 02:26:17 am »
 :'(

leapinlew

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 08:20:52 pm »
You are going to be doing a good amount of trail blazing. The good news is, if you change your mind down the road and concentrate on a single system, you won't have lost anything but time.

Good luck.

Titchgamer

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 03:57:15 am »
Well ide say ya crazy but ile leave this here for you it might help :)

https://www.arcadeworlduk.com/products/brook-universal-fighting-board-ps4-ps3-xboxone-xbox360-pc.html

richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 12:00:41 am »
Thanks for the support! Doing more research it looks like if I really want to convert that 3-way system switch on the gamepad to three seperate push buttons I'm dealing with converting toggle switches to momentary push-buttons, which from what I'm finding is not that straightforward.
Well ide say ya crazy but ile leave this here for you it might help :)

https://www.arcadeworlduk.com/products/brook-universal-fighting-board-ps4-ps3-xboxone-xbox360-pc.html

I'm actually going to take your advice and try a PCP converter again. I did this in the beginning with another board, the IST Pre-Installed Brook PS3/PS4/PC Fight Board PCB Kit, but the home button wouldn't work after switching inputs. Going to try again with this guy https://www.focusattack.com/brook-ps4-fighting-board-with-audio-v2017-ps4-ps3-pc/ since I now have a better quality HDMI/USB KVM, plus a powered USB hub. I'll post an update when I receive the board.
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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 01:46:22 am »
Good luck!

Drnick

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 02:50:56 pm »
Why not just get some larger SPDT's and fit them to the control panel? then you can just flick them to the correct position much like the ones on the gamepad.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Terminals-SPDT-Position-Toggle-Switches/dp/B01DEM2QNY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1515527347&sr=8-5&keywords=spdt+switches

richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 12:39:08 am »
Why not just get some larger SPDT's and fit them to the control panel? then you can just flick them to the correct position much like the ones on the gamepad.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Terminals-SPDT-Position-Toggle-Switches/dp/B01DEM2QNY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1515527347&sr=8-5&keywords=spdt+switches

Drnick that's a great idea actually! With one of those I would use that to switch the system controls (hopefully I can daisy chain them across all 4 controllers) and then have push buttons for each video input (from the HDMI KVM). This will be my plan B, if it doesn't work out with the  Brooks board I ordered. I should get that this weekend hopefully so I can report back. The later would allow me to only have to switch the video inputs via buttons since the board is suppose to automatically work for all three systems. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Drnick

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 08:01:15 am »
I don't know about using 1 switch to switch all units at the same time, In theory you would be tying all 4 devices grounds together and I'm not sure how well that would be handled.  (Wouldn't want you to destroy 4 controllers with 1 flick of a switch)  maybe a more electrically minded user can advise on this? 

richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 01:55:13 am »
The new Brooks board didnít work :/ My heart sank a little when I had the same symptom as before, a non-working PS4 home button. Luckily Focusattack has a good return policy.

Drnick, you made me realize something. I am working way too hard on having a streamlined system switching solution when this whole time itís been staring at me in the face. Iíll have, as you suggested, four spdt switches per player on the control panel. And then three video switch buttons from the kvm. I gotta say this Hori Fighting Commander 4 gamepad is pretty reliable when it comes to system switching and itís an easy pad hack.

I originally didnít want to go this route because of the extra buttons, but as you can see itís already looking like teletraan 1, so whatís a few more :)


I gotta say Iím feeling real good about this, now that I have a clear working solution. Thanks guys!
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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 10:04:11 am »
From the looks of the list of games you are looking to play could they not all be done on a single PC?  Instead of using the PS3 and PS4 for the fighting games, why not download, SF5, MKX, etc and setup a Steam system that you can launch from a front end like Hyperspin?


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richardoswald

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2018, 12:11:08 am »
From the looks of the list of games you are looking to play could they not all be done on a single PC?  Instead of using the PS3 and PS4 for the fighting games, why not download, SF5, MKX, etc and setup a Steam system that you can launch from a front end like Hyperspin?


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It's funny since I've been down this path before with others, but it's the way you said it. I had myself so convinced with my concept up until a few days ago, but reading your post had some major impact. There were purists out there who told me consoles where meant for the couch, but most of the games I play are fighting games and, IMO, are meant for an arcade cabinet. I thought a multi-system arcade cabinet was such a cool idea. It would allow me to play modern fighting games in my own arcade cabinet! And I would have all the retro games on the Retropie. I knew it was going to be a challenge and I was up for it, but I've gone through a number of iterations of the equipment (KVMs, Brooks PCBs, different gamepads) and I never got exactly what I wanted, and was disheartening. In my last post I was content with a working concept and was about to add switches and extra buttons to my already big panel, I was actually in a good place with my idea.

But now I'm in a better place since after much thinking I'm going to scrap the multi-system and go modern PC! One system to rule them all! Arroyo, I knew there were PC ports of fighting games but didn't give it that much thought and you're right! All my favorites are there, Street Fighter 5, Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite, Mortal Kombat X, Injustice, even Tekken 7 and Killer Instinct, etc. Plus some of the retro-games that were a little slow on the Retropie (Marvel Vs Capcom 2, Mortal Kombat sound issues), that will go a way with a PC. And all of that weight trying to manage the multi-system controls has been lifted off my shoulders.

Before I made my final decision (it wasn't easy) I made this pros/cons list:
Arcade Cabinet: PS4/PS3/Retropie vs PC Pros & Cons

PS4/PS3/Retropie Pros:
1. Systems already purchased.
2. Games already purchased.
3. PS4 and PS3 games run stable (built for console)
4. Multiplayer with PSN friends online (PS4)
5. RetroPie images and themes already made and are awesome!
6. Never been done before! Can set a new trend if accomplished!

PS4/PS3/Retropie Cons:
1. Wonít be able to play modern fighting games when PS5 is released. Not very future proof.
2. Much to do when switching systems (changing control input + video input) not user friendly.
3. Many input components means more points of failure.
4. Some RetroPie games are slow, need beefier machine for some emulation.
5. Never been done before! So not much guidance.


PC Pros:
1. One system makes inputs (controls AND video) much simpler to manage.
2. Itís been done before, much guidance out there since not specialized.
3. Less room for error, and errors can be controlled better.
4. A modern PC can run most if not all emulation.
5. For fighting games (genre of choice), PC is almost always supported.
6. Future proof since controls wonít change, just upgrade PC hardware every 5 or so years to keep up with newer games.

PC Cons:
1. Must purchase PC
2. Must re-purchase games (fighting games mostly) previously owned on PS3 and PS4.
3. Have to sell some equipment purchased for multi-console project (HDMI KVM, xtra gamepads, usb hub, Brooks board) (already done!)

So major update! I'm going to spec out my machine (haven't built a PC from scratch since 2003) so I have a lot of research to do. But I'm also going to do a few Sketchup Tutorials to also work on the cabinet design.

Thanks to your post Arroyo for making me think rationally about this, and thanks to all those you warned me before, and to those few who even supported my earlier idea. On with the show!
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Drnick

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2018, 03:51:30 am »
If you want to future proof yourself then look to an I7 either 7xxxk or 8xxxk 32GB Ram and a 1080TI Graphics card. Add a large ssd for OS Drive, a good mechanical drive for roms etc find a quiet but fairly powerful psu and you should be good to go.  bad news is expect to wave bye bye to the best part of 2k  :dizzy:

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2018, 08:39:17 am »
Thanks to your post Arroyo for making me think rationally about this,

 Iím sure you did that all by yourself[emoji6] :cheers:


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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2018, 01:01:03 am »
Bump....howís the planning coming?


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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 02:50:58 am »
im very interested in your cab build. i want to build something almost identical. i actually came on these forums because im stressing trying to design my cab to start building it.

im not sure why everyones hating on the 8 button thing. p1 and p2 is guaranteed 8 buttons. 3 and 4 are easily 6buttons if youve got n64 and ps2 emulator. whats the big deal about adding an extra 2 buttons for p3 and p4?

Drnick

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Re: PS3 + PS4 + RetroPie 4-player Arcade Cab
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2018, 04:18:32 pm »
im very interested in your cab build. i want to build something almost identical. i actually came on these forums because im stressing trying to design my cab to start building it.

im not sure why everyones hating on the 8 button thing. p1 and p2 is guaranteed 8 buttons. 3 and 4 are easily 6buttons if youve got n64 and ps2 emulator. whats the big deal about adding an extra 2 buttons for p3 and p4?


Purism.  I don't think there were any 4 player games released into the arcade where players needed more than 4 buttons.  Sure you need 8 buttons to cover n64 and ps2 etc but almost every game that uses that many buttons will feel a bit clunky on an arcade machine. for starters how would you have the layout of your buttons,  L1,L2,R2,R1 on top row and Tri/Square/Circle/X on bottom row sounds good until you have to hold L1/R1 and press X and circle together to make that throw/Jump/Attack ? 


  
 

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