Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!  (Read 706 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« on: August 03, 2017, 11:16:21 am »
I picked up a cheap semi-working Hydro Thunder recently. There was no response from the wheel pick a track or boat, but the boost button works. Once I get into the race the boat goes forward and constantly turns hard right. I went into the menu and did a factory restore, now the boat won't move at all in the race. No response from steering or throttle in the test menu. I tried unplugging the motor like I've seen suggested, but there was no change there. I measured both potentiometers with the multimeter and they both appear to be reading what they should be.
I've looked around and found others with this issue, but there was never a solution found.
Anyone have any ideas

Malenko

  • KNEEL BEFORE ZODlenko!
  • Trade Count: (+58)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 12293
  • Redhead pee the bed, blame it on a cabbage head.
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142404.msg1475162.html
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 11:39:50 am »
did you calibrate the steering?
2014 Standup UCA Runner Up
2015 Restoration UCA Winner
2016 thomas_surles choice award
2017 International Evil Buddhist Award

Latest project: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,150902.0.html
RedheadKingPinball aka GingerBalls

KI to Open Ice Conversion: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152600.0.html

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6437
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 11:44:11 am »
I measured both potentiometers with the multimeter and they both appear to be reading what they should be.
To be clear and thorough, did you perform these checks and get these readings?

- Power off resistance check from tab 1 to tab 3 should read 5k IIRC.

- Power off resistance check from tab 1 (or 3) to tab 2 should read around 2.5k with the axis centered and vary as you move the axis.

- Power on voltage check from tab 1 to tab 3 should read 5v IIRC.

- Power on voltage check from tab 1 (or 3) to tab 2 should read around 2.5v with the axis centered and vary as you move the axis.


Scott

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 11:49:13 am »
Thanks for the responses

Malenko,
I tried to calibrate, but I get no response from wheel or throttle

PL1,
I have not tried measuring with power applied, only resistances

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes the voltage reaching the coin mech can be anywhere from 4.66-4.8v
This is the same +5v that is going to the steering and throttle potentiometers. Would I voltage slightly lower cause no response?
I measured from the power supply and I'm getting +5, and there doesn't seem to be anything it goes through before it reaches those points.

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6437
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 12:27:29 pm »
One thing I have noticed is that sometimes the voltage reaching the coin mech can be anywhere from 4.66-4.8v
This is the same +5v that is going to the steering and throttle potentiometers. Would I voltage slightly lower cause no response?
I measured from the power supply and I'm getting +5, and there doesn't seem to be anything it goes through before it reaches those points.
When adjusting the power supply, you should measure 5v at the board since the wiring can drop some voltage.

The slightly low voltage probably won't cause "no response" unless the voltage dips low enough to keep the A/D converters from working but stays high enough for the rest of the circuits.  :dizzy:


Scott

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 03:09:49 pm »
Everything is coming from the PC power supply. I swapped it out for another one I had and getting the same results, so I guess that's not it (too bad)
I guess my next step is to try and take measurements at the diego board

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 05:57:12 pm »
I think I finally tracked down an answer from someone who had the same issue, although their post was on a different thread so it's possible they had more than one issue. They said they had a bad video card, and it tools months to figure out that was the problem.
I hope this is not the case, because the only video card I can find now is $200 on eBay. There is a hack out there to use Any Voodoo 2 video card, but even those are almost $100 on eBay

05SRT4

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 893
  • Check out my Pow Pow
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 07:06:27 pm »
Do you have more info on this "Hack" you speak of. I think I need a new video card for one of my Rush 2049's and I havent been able to find any video cards.

DudeRegular

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 262
  • I have no idea what I am doing
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 09:42:12 pm »
Video card causing the steering to go doesn't sound too likely honestly.

There is info on KLOV covering the video card hack.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


05SRT4

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 893
  • Check out my Pow Pow
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 10:07:39 pm »
Thanks Dude

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 06:04:28 am »
Video card causing the steering to go doesn't sound too likely honestly.

You're probably right. I think the issue they had was with the control buttons, which have been intermittent for me. I think my machine probably has more than one thing causing issues, was hoping everything would just be because of a card not properly seated.
I reseated the video card and even changed slots in the pc, no luck. But there is one pin missing on the connector***, so maybe that is causing intermittent connections? I'm running out of ideas on the steering and throttle issue. I know it's not the pots because I just bought the throttle from a working hydro thunder

***Update - Turns out the "missing pin" from the DB15 connector to the video card is one that is not used. So much for that theory***
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 09:50:00 am by Shaybe »

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 09:48:25 am »
- Power off resistance check from tab 1 to tab 3 should read 5k IIRC.
- Power off resistance check from tab 1 (or 3) to tab 2 should read around 2.5k with the axis centered and vary as you move the axis.
- Power on voltage check from tab 1 to tab 3 should read 5v IIRC.
- Power on voltage check from tab 1 (or 3) to tab 2 should read around 2.5v with the axis centered and vary as you move the axis.

Hopefully I can try these measurements tonight.

I'm looking at the diagram from the manual and see +5V Throttle, Throttle Sense, and Throttle Ground (Same for steering pot).

Wheel and Throttle sense both go to JP7 on the Diego Board. Anyone know what sort of signal sense is sending? I can try to pull that plug off and measure those pins to make sure the signal is reaching, but I don't know what I'm measuring for!

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6437
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 12:17:27 pm »
I'm looking at the diagram from the manual and see +5V Throttle, Throttle Sense, and Throttle Ground (Same for steering pot).
Yes, Sense is the middle tab ("wiper") on the potentiometer.

Anyone know what sort of signal sense is sending?
A potentiometer acts as a voltage divider.

The black resistive element is a resistor.

5v on the top tab and ground (0v) on the bottom tab allows you to select a voltage (a.k.a. "potential") between those values.

A wiper arm slides over (wipes across) the surface of the board, making contact between the silver ring in the center and a point on the resistive element.

The contact point is the bump on the right side of the wiper.

When you center the knob, the arm makes contact at the green bar, giving you 2.5 volts on the wiper. (assuming it is a linear pot)

When you turn the knob to the blue bar, you get 4.5 volts on the wiper.

If you reverse the 5v and Gnd tabs, green will still give you 2.5v and blue will give you 0.5v.



I can try to pull that plug off and measure those pins to make sure the signal is reaching, but I don't know what I'm measuring for!
If you pull the plug off, it defeats the purpose of doing the power-on checks.

Check at the potentiometer tabs to see if you have:
- 5v on tab 1 (or 3?)
- Ground on tab 3 (or 1?)
- Voltage on tab 2 that is controlled by the position of the potentiometer.

Those readings indicate that the pot is working correctly and that the problem lies elsewhere.


Scott

jennifer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2017, 03:53:25 pm »
      Back up a bit... Games like that were subject to physical abuse, most likely you would be able to see manifestations of this in bent and cracked steering brackets, PL1 is not wrong, But how we got there should be understood ...stress... Those C/pots absorbed considerable physical energy over time and still may read ok but not-so much in certain positions. (Honeypoo would scope them) but that's just me trying to save the good ones. Because... Here is the thing, they are really hard to find anymore,( the real carbon disk) and when you do quite spendy. The plastic pregged cheapos are junk, Don't waste your time (IMHO).

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6437
  • 2013 UCA Awardee
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2017, 06:23:09 pm »
I totally agree on not using cheap pots.   :cheers:

Long-life versions by Allen Bradley (very hard to find, expensive) or Honeywell/Clarostat (RV4 series, easier to find, less expensive, depending on the model you may need to cut the shaft to the proper length and add a flat with a Dremel cutoff wheel) are great choices IF you have worn-out/damaged pots.

In this case, the fact that there is no response at all from the pots suggests that it probably isn't worn pots.


Scott

jennifer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 12:31:33 am »
    Control pots are only a small part of that C/P, I was thinking perhaps They were triggering a reset....However, after getting a minute, (and reading the manual,)That most likely would put into watchdog mode and be perpetually loading. Jennifer would now be inclined to think its something to do with that steering control board, (abused steering controls) or hard drive problems. Either way the diagnostic menu should tell you where to look...That looks like a fun project, Jealous much? ::)

Shaybe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 10:15:32 am »
Things have been crazy between work and having a new baby. Finally got time and had a friend help take measurements. Everything looks fine with both pots, or at least enough that I would get some sort of response from them in the calibration menu.
Trying hard to find someone around Norfolk VA who has one of these games to let me try my boards in. I've inspected both boards and I don't see anything physically wrong. Reseated all wires and the only socketed chip on the wheel driver Board. Maybe the socketed chip needs replaced, but I have no way to test it and don't want to waste money. Maybe the ribbon cable that connects the two boards? I don't know what data is passed along that though

jennifer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Hydro Thunder Restoration - Steering Issue Help!
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 03:56:43 pm »
Things have been crazy between work and having a new baby. Finally got time and had a friend help take measurements. Everything looks fine with both pots, or at least enough that I would get some sort of response from them in the calibration menu.
Trying hard to find someone around Norfolk VA who has one of these games to let me try my boards in. I've inspected both boards and I don't see anything physically wrong. Reseated all wires and the only socketed chip on the wheel driver Board. Maybe the socketed chip needs replaced, but I have no way to test it and don't want to waste money. Maybe the ribbon cable that connects the two boards? I don't know what data is passed along that though
Sounds like you covered your basics, However I would be really surprised if there wasn't a diag/test mode that would basicly tell you whats up doc.... Swapping boards seems like a good way to not waste money, but Ya, not so much, the pins are only rated for like 15 insertions (or something like that, a fact few people know) then the plating becomes compromised, as does relilabilty, and swapping bad parts into a buddys machine is a really good way to lose friends fast.

  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31