BYOAC racer that probably won't get made.

[Howard_Casto]

Ok after the various failed racing game kickstarters, we've begun to throw around the idea of making our own racing game for fun and possibly profit.  Right now it's just in the idea stage.  Programmers, modelers, ect are needed!  If you want to help please let us know!

Current Volunteers:
Howard_Casto - light programming/art assets
eds1275 - music
MrThunderwing - 2d art assets / music



*RESERVED FOR PROJECT GOALS/STATUS*

[Howard_Casto]

*RESERVED FOR PROJECT GOALS/STATUS*

[Howard_Casto]

Ok just some ideas of mine.  I say do an outrun/crusin' usa style game, just because one long track is more fun imho than doing laps in a raceway.  We could call it Racin' and have a Daytona USA style theme song for the attract mode.  Lots of different kinds of cars would be fun so long as the controls are arcadey and things aren't taken too seriously. 

Suggested Cars (Which would have to be altered to avoid copyright issues):

Early 90's Camaro/Trans-am
70's Firebird
Corvette
Road Runner
Charger
Tesla Roadster
Hot Rod based on 30's era Ford body
Ferrari (any will do)
Lamborghini (any will do)
Mini Cooper
Hummer
Nascar (Maybe Ricard Petty era just for a change of pace)
El-Camino
F1 Car

These are just ideas guys.... throw up suggestions/comments.

[wp34]

Ok just some ideas of mine.  I say do an outrun/crusin' usa style game, just because one long track is more fun imho than doing laps in a raceway.  We could call it Racin' and have a Daytona USA style theme song for the attract mode.  Lots of different kinds of cars would be fun so long as the controls are arcadey and things aren't taken too seriously. 

Suggested Cars (Which would have to be altered to avoid copyright issues):

Early 90's Camaro/Trans-am
70's Trans-am
Corvette
Road Runner
Charger
Tesla Roadster
Hot Rod based on 30's era Ford body
Ferrari (any will do)
Lamborghini (any will do)
Mini Cooper
Hummer
Nascar (Maybe Ricard Petty era just for a change of pace)
El-Camino
F1 Car

These are just ideas guys.... throw up suggestions/comments.

Add a 72 Datsun Z and I'm in.

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[Howard_Casto]

That's a nice car.  I'm all for it.  It might be fun to put some real clunkers in there as well.  Maybe a dodge Omni..... Mom had one of those and if you went up a steep hill you had to turn the AC off so it could make it. 

We probably need to find a suitable game engine.... making a racer from scratch would be a major undertaking.

[ugleymatt]

Often wished for a 80s themed CannonBall run game, always surprised that it never got made into a game.

[BadMouth]

Speaking of Cannonball, there is a track editor for the Outrun recreation called Cannonball.

So for an Outrun style game, the tool and original art assets are already there.  I know you can insert alternate music.  Not sure how hard the art would be to change.
EDIT:https://github.com/djyt/layout/wiki


Personally I want the Sega blue skies and lush landscapes promised by 90's Arcade Racer.  But I am too busy these days to be of any help.



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[BadMouth]

Since I don't have time, I am willing to chip in $100 toward a kit from the Unity Assets Store. 

I just looked at one on YouTube, but it, like most modern games seemed all about modding the car to your personal taste.  I'd prefer to stay as far away from that as possible.

Seems to be tutorials on how to make a racing game quickly, but I don't have time to watch them  at the moment.

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[BadMouth]

If going the Unity route, how about this:

Get the track layouts and handling correct, than do a kickstarter in order to buy the scenery?

Not that the kickstarter route has worked out before, but if the game is already done and just needs made pretty...then maybe not such a bad idea.

[eds1275]

lol at the el camino. On December 6th, I shoulder checked and there was nobody coming. I put my pickup truck in to drive, and pulled out into an el camino and totally caved in the whole side. He had been in a driveway behind me, and pulled out beside me. Still totally my fault but he got out of his wrecked classic car and started swearing at me. Then he sized me up and decided he probably didn't want to fight. Although I felt bad, he was out of line for flying off the handle like that. A week later he left a message on my phone that he was going to get the police after me. I called the insurance company and they had been waiting on information from you, but I hadn't received their mail yet. In the end my insurance went up a few dollars a month.

[BadMouth]

I have an idea for a stage.  I think the smokey mountains in the fall would make a cool stage:
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+ridge+parkway&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyg6HI1fnTAhWK7CYKHZquCSUQ_AUICygC&biw=2048&bih=697

There's also this turn between Gatlinburg and Cherokee that I thought I was going to die on.

I went into it way too fast on a motorcycle.  It's diminishing radius, has a tunnel at the end and when you come out of the tunnel you've pretty much made a complete circle and are going the same direction was when you entered the turn.  The asphalt ate away the right edge of my boot sole.

EDIT: There's also a place in WV (on Rt 50 near the saddle mtn overlook IIRC) where it looks like you're driving toward the center of a large wind turbine, then the road turns sharp right.
I've thought that would make a neat segment of an arcade racer track.  I can't seem to find it on a map.  At least not anything that shows the turbine or how close it is to the road.

[BadMouth]

I am not a programmer, but what do you guys think of this kit?
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/22615

The things listed under the package contents sound like a good start to me.
It includes support for slipstream and nitro boosts.


If you follow the forum link it says it's currently being rewritten though. 
https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/racing-game-starter-kit-easily-create-racing-games.337366/
(better list of features here)

[Howard_Casto]

Ok thoughts on the comments:

I think Unity is a sure front-runner for the game engine.... it can be ported to other platforms and there are a lot of templates out there.  Cannonball is certainly an option, but it's literally reverse-engineered source code from the arcade roms, so you are pretty much limited to an outrun clone and I'm not even sure how legal that would be. 

I've always dreamed of making a Cannonball game (the movie).  I think it might be a massive undertaking though considering half of the film was about setting traps for the other racers, wacky situations, ect.....  It'd be the first racing game with a story mode.  I also had that idea about a 2d racer with landscape paintings for textures, but that would be all on me (or anyone else that can paint) and the results might not be what everyone is looking for. 

I think a working prototype, regardless of the direction we choose, needs to be the first step.  If we can't make a car model race through a stage with some traffic and have it feel right, we are just kidding ourselves. 

There are a ton of great places throughout the states (hell, throughout WV alone) that would make great courses or course elements.  Ideally it'd be nice to represent every state, but fifty courses would be insane. 

I'm all about the arcade style racing myself....  each car would have three stats.... top speed, acceleration, and handling, those wouldn't be based on the real cars' stats at all and you can't change or upgrade them.  That's just me though.

In regards to the cars I suggested, I only suggested them because they look interesting visually.    If you are going arcade racer then real world specs don't matter which is why some of those cars are really slow compared to the others. 

Something else that warrants discussion is traffic.  Are we going to have some or will it just be other ai cars?  If we do is it going to be intelligent traffic, or traffic on rails like outrun 2k6?  There are actually merits for both.  Some people actually prefer the "stupid" traffic of 2k6 because cars will always be in the same place every race, so the game becomes more of a puzzle in regards to avoiding cars and using their slipstreams to get through the course as fast as possible.


As far as money, ect goes let's not put the cart before the horse.  I didn't want to bring it up, but I have a heart cath scheduled for Monday, so if something goes wrong or a get a poor diagnosis from what they find, I might not even be able to help and thus far I'm the only programmer to have volunteered. 
 

[Howard_Casto]

I am not a programmer, but what do you guys think of this kit?
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/22615

The things listed under the package contents sound like a good start to me.
It includes support for slipstream and nitro boosts.


If you follow the forum link it says it's currently being rewritten though. 
https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/racing-game-starter-kit-easily-create-racing-games.337366/
(better list of features here)

It looks like a good value.  If it's being rewritten I dunno though.

[BadMouth]

The one thing that bugs me about it is that all I see are flat tracks without elevation changes.
I will look through the tutorial videos for it this weekend to see what's up with that.

[Howard_Casto]

I played it via the web demos.  Some of the physics are wonked out as well.  The wheel seems to determine your steering via comparing the last two reads of the analog stick, which seems like a good idea but it isn't.  If you leave the stick centered and then slam it to the left, the car will make a sharp left turn but if you gradually turn the stick (like you would with a wheel) the car never cuts sharp enough, even if the stick is full left and it's full left well before the turn.  Impacts with other cars cause the cars to scatter and spin, like they are on ice or something.  Also I did the motorcycle course and for no reason all the other racers just made a right turn into the barrier and I never saw them again. 

The flat tracks concern me as well. 

Maybe I'm just being hard on it.  Can you guys try some of the demos on the site and see what you think?  You can use 360 gamepads on the demos apparently. 

[BadMouth]

How about starting a list of possible stages.  I started thinking about the stages I'd want to see and then thought maybe the music could be defined by the location.

Smokey Mountains in the fall - old time country or bluegrass
Big Sur - surfer ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---
Detroit City - straight up rock
Desert - rip off zztop
Swamp - zydeco
Swiss Alps - yodeling   

I'm just spitballing.  Not sure whether it would be fun or a nightmare for eds1275. 

EDIT: This is more if going for a Cruis'n style of Play, rather than Sega or Namco style.
I'd still prefer the sega feel.

[Howard_Casto]

Sega physics are way better, but there isn't anything stopping us from adding in some Midway level silliness with the stage and music design. 

I wonder if a service like vevo would loan out songs?  Maybe have the album art and song pop up at the start of the race or something.  Supplying your own music via mp3s  and/or a cd is a route as well. 

I would like to see Vegas and LA as stages.  Vegas would be great because you could spoof Elvis for the music, or even better, one of those horrible/wonderful musical acts that's been doing vegas for the past 40 years.  (Newton, Mannalow, ect.)

This might be a bit ambitious, but I would like to have stages rigged for multiple times of day and possibly different seasons. It might keep the game from getting stale as quickly. 

[BadMouth]

I feel like our imagination has run us off the rails.

A simple arcade game with a few closed circuits, a few vehicles, and a unified vibe/music is a more realistic goal.
It's all about the handling.  If we can't get that to feel right, there's no point in doing anything else.

First I'd replicate a track layout from Daytona or Ridge Racer, then tweak the handling until it has a satisfying feel.
It doesn't have to match the original.  It just has to feel good.  (I will refrain from posting pepe. )

Get the handling right, then ditch that track layout in favor of new and original ones.

[MrThunderwing]

I dunno how relevant this would be to a 3D racing game, but I'd be happy to help out with any 2D art

http://mr-alexander.deviantart.com/gallery/

I've also done a wee bit of dabbling in music too using FL studio, so would be happy to contribute in anyway I can there.

[Howard_Casto]

We'll need a HUD and menus... works for me. 

[VirtuaIceMan]

I have an idea for a stage.  I think the smokey mountains in the fall would make a cool stage:
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+ridge+parkway&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyg6HI1fnTAhWK7CYKHZquCSUQ_AUICygC&biw=2048&bih=697

There's also this turn between Gatlinburg and Cherokee that I thought I was going to die on.

I went into it way too fast on a motorcycle.  It's diminishing radius, has a tunnel at the end and when you come out of the tunnel you've pretty much made a complete circle and are going the same direction was when you entered the turn.  The asphalt ate away the right edge of my boot sole.

EDIT: There's also a place in WV (on Rt 50 near the saddle mtn overlook IIRC) where it looks like you're driving toward the center of a large wind turbine, then the road turns sharp right.
I've thought that would make a neat segment of an arcade racer track.  I can't seem to find it on a map.  At least not anything that shows the turbine or how close it is to the road.

Reminds me of a turn in the Canada track on NFS2

[buttersoft]

Ok, I'll have a word to my friend and see what he thinks. He might not go for it at all, what with creating models day in, day out.


GL Monday, Howard!

[buttersoft]

Sadly my friend is out, so no models from him. He said he does it all day and that's enough, and then pointed out that because he works for a multinational studio he's under a really heavy non-compete clause. He might be able to make a few models for his portfolio, but if he contributes anything for a game the company lawyers will have a field day :/ It wouldn't matter if it was non-profit, or that he only contributed a little bit, the studio might try to claim ownership of the whole project.

[FALSE]

20 bucks for some simple assets to prototype with...
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/37490

Did that 90's Arcade Racer project tank?

[BadMouth]

Did that 90's Arcade Racer project tank?

See the dedicated 90's arcade racer thread.
TL;DNR = The publisher Nicalis got on board, said they'd handle the gameplay mechanics and publishing, then kept announcing new platforms and never published it.
They are known for hyping games and then never releasing them.  I can only assume it's some kind of scam to get venture capital.
Antonis, the original kickstarter said it was out of his hands now and has since stopped answering emails. 
Last year he was still returning my emails, but I tried again a few weeks ago and he didn't reply.

All the art assets for the game were finished.  If Nicalis isn't going to release the game, they could at least hand those over to the kickstarter backers.
I'd like to see them get leaked. 

[buttersoft]

All the art assets for the game were finished.  If Nicalis isn't going to release the game, they could at least hand those over to the kickstarter backers.
I'd like to see them get leaked. 

I'd love to see that too, but maybe the purported venture capitalists own them now.

[Howard_Casto]

So I'm out of the hospital  (finally!).  Prognosis is good.  Then again I went straight to Bojangles after I got out, so maybe my days are still numbered. 

It looks like I'll be riding the bench for the rest of the week, so if I feel like it all look at some of these unity kits and maybe revisit game maker. 

Btw we need a force-feedback expert and/or a book that explains how to properly implement it.  2k6's ff was a achieved mostly via trial and error on my part because while there is a ton of info out there about how to setup and play effects, how to manipulate effects and which ones to use for the desired result is sparsely documented. 

Oh and just for payback towards not being able to unknow pinballjim's grooming habits..... I'm dolphin smooth down to the kneecaps!

[pbj]

Glad to hear you've joined the 21st century.  You'll never go full beast again.

 

[ugleymatt]

Anyone got the mind bleach?

[eds1275]

I've got some ideas for music and a new show coming up starting on the 3rd with a 2 hour break between so I should have some serious time in the coming weeks to lay down some demos. I like the music based on locale idea.

[Howard_Casto]

Sounds good man. 

Unfortunately I've been a little sore and cranky, so I haven't gotten a chance to really dig through the unity kits.  If anyone finds a good kit with a demo link to it and I'll try it.  I want to watch some tutorials to see how hard it is to do a racer from scratch.  We probably shouldn't go that route, but it would at least let me know if I'm capable of doing the lead programming for this thing.   

[BadMouth]

What I would like is some setup with a generic car and track that allows me to tweak handling/physics settings.
This way non-programmers could contribute by test driving and comparing notes until we come to some kind of consensus on what makes a great handling arcade racer.

Lack of elevation changes on some of the generic track builders bothers me.

[Howard_Casto]

I have trouble searching the kits.  Are there any off road racing packages?  Those would probably have jumps and ect. and while the physics would probably be a bit too springy for our use, at least the problem of changes in terrain would be covered. 

[BadMouth]

I keep coming back to the one I linked earlier and this one which doesn't seem to be sold in the asset store (and may be dead as of 2015 judging from the unity forum posts):
http://www.unityracingkit.com/
It seems a bit much for a simple arcade racer, but the physics look halfway decent and the AI doesn't sound too bad.
There is a demo on the main page, but also if you go to the support tab then freebies you can download a stripped down version for free.

EDIT: Latest release on the dedicated website is December 2016, which isn't that old.

[eds1275]

I haven't messed with unity loately but ther default test assets package used to have a race car setting with some tweakable bits. I'm headed to work now but have a computer there of my own and I'll try to find it. On company time! 



...actually I was working for 14 friggin hours and didn't get to it. But I did this morning. In the Standard Assets package under vehicles, likely in the asset store but I think it's an option to install from the get go.

[Laythe]

I'm a game developer.  Among those many hats, I'm a 3D artist.

I've got plenty of my own projects... but if you guys get something going, I'd be willing to do some modeling and texturing for you.

I'm not offering enough to complete a game.  That's what I do for my own projects, and so I know how much work that is.

To prove I'm not just talking checks that my posterior could not cash, here's a <2k low poly mesh I made just now to see if I'd find this fun.  Car of my imagination's design, somewhere between a Pantera and a Mach 1, no texture, poly count somewhere around what 90s racers would have used.



Probably won't get made is correct from my experience of communal projects, but, Howard's done some cool and difficult stuff, so I'm holding a possibility.

if you start getting somewhere, I'll chip in.  PM me if you wanna talk shop.

[Howard_Casto]

Sorry gentlemen, it's been a hectic week(end).  I assumed I would feel better at this point and I've got other real world stuff going on in addition to that.  Yeah unity has a stock racing kit and I tried it a few years back.  It's more geared towards the sim end of the spectrum if I remember correctly.  Yeah Laythe, I can't speak for everyone, but I welcome any help we can get.  I've got to just decide on a kit, sit down with it over the course of a few days (that's the tough part atm) and make it feel arcade like. 

In terms of programming my main concerns are AI and variable terrain.  I've never done any AI but the most rudimentary 8-bit stuff so if we can't find a kit with good AI, we might have to do traffic/npcs on rails like outrun.  I know that unity's physics engine handles most things pretty well, but if anything the physics have to be LESS realistic for a good arcade racer and that might be deceptively difficult. 

But menus and car handling and stuff, I can manage most of that no problem. 

[Howard_Casto]

So has anyone been researching kits or anything?  I had a bunch of Dr. Appointments lately that's kept me busy so I haven't really had a chance.  I probably just need to throw unity on this pc and start playing around.  My time is limited atm.... Drs.  really want me to lose weight so I have to spend a lot of time doing *gasp!* physical activity.  I've also got an ear infection, so that's fun. 

I want to get this setup and work on it at night since I'm not sleeping well anyway.  I'm determined to at least attempt this and if a full 3D game is beyond my scope I might do a simpler racing game instead if anyone wants to help out on that.   

[ugleymatt]

pfftt poor excuse

Get a standing desk and a treadmill