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Author Topic: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)  (Read 5791 times)

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rootbeer

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As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« on: April 19, 2017, 10:34:00 pm »
Hi, folks.

After spending a while reading Saint's book and a bunch of posts here, I'm gearing up for a cabinet build of my own.

Here are some of my design goals so far:
  • Not ugly.
  • Quite comfortable.
  • Two-player.
  • Title will not include my name, the word "MAME," or a portmanteau with the suffix "-cade."
  • Full-sized stand-up arcade cabinet.
  • 23.8" LCD IPS 16:9 monitor. This will play MAME, other emulators, and certain PC games. (The widescreen monitor is required for some of my target games, not a compromise. It's already purchased.)
  • Proper aspect ratio always. The display should never be stretched.
  • Two U360 joysticks, eight buttons per player in the Slagcoin square-and-equilateral-triangle layout (http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout/cluster36_s.png), using the lowered-pinky-button configuration. (Yes, I have specific games I want eight buttons for.)
  • U-Trak trackball. No dedicated trackball buttons.
  • No spinner, steering wheel, dedicated four-way joystick, Tron stick, or light guns.
  • No pinball buttons. I love pinball, but my CP is going to be too wide to use pinball buttons comfortably.
  • Only four admin buttons: Coin Up and Start for each player. (Possibly an additional Shift button hidden on the side of the CP. If not, P1 Start = Shift.)
  • Happ over/under coin door, with working mechs. (Already purchased.)
  • No keyboard drawer. Wireless keyboard (+trackpad?) instead.
  • No paint. Laminate.
  • I'm not sure what the art theme will be yet.
  • I haven't used any front ends yet, but AttractMode looks like it might be the one.
  • Windows (Win10, probably)-based PC.

I looked over some of the plans that have been published, and decided to adapt existing ideas and design my own plans. My touchstones included builds by Knievel and Robert Downey. I've been drafting the plans in SketchUp, and I've got a good chunk of that done so far. There are still several elements to model and some refining to do.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 11:24:49 pm by rootbeer »

harveybirdman

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 10:42:35 pm »
What trackball games are a must?

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 10:50:23 pm »
What trackball games are a must?

One of my featured games will be Super Mario Strikers Charged (Wii). I was able to get the motion-controlled elements (navigating the menus, and more importantly, saving super-strike goals) to work well with a mouse in the Dolphin emulator. The trackball is required for those controls.

Beyond that, I have some interest in the usual: Centipede, Marble Madness, Golden Tee, Silver Strike.

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 11:03:48 pm »
Its my duty as a circle jerker to question why you want a console game on your cab instead of remaining where it belongs on your Wii,  however I like most everything else about what you got going on here other than the CP size.

Thought about any themes or colors?

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 11:38:53 pm »
Its my duty as a circle jerker to question why you want a console game on your cab instead of remaining where it belongs on your Wii

Thank you for addressing this important matter! ;) The answer is, "because I think it'll be fun." It's a favourite game in my group, and I think it'd be fun to play in an arcade-style context. Also, my build won't be slavishly-devoted to the classic arcade aesthetic. Builds that do that are awesome, but this won't be one of those.

however I like most everything else about what you got going on here other than the CP size.

Thought about any themes or colors?

Thanks. The CP is 32" at it's widest point. Not totally svelte, but it's narrower than Lusid's 34", the same as RDowney's Wild West Arcade, and just a little more than arcadecab.com's 30-3/8". I've mocked it up on paper, and it has a comfortable amount of room around the controls. I'd make it smaller if it felt like there was any excess, but I don't want it to feel cramped. What would you do about the CP size?

I've mulled over a few theme and colour ideas, but haven't firmly settled on anything yet. Maaaybe a Strikers or other modern-Mario theme, but I'd want to find a way to tone it down so it doesn't look too garish. It won't be a retro arcade-authentic style. Perhaps something sort of minimalist-geometric with some theme imagery blended in.

I ran across a palette I liked on a comic book title page the other day. (Pic below.) It originally had white, three shades of grey, and yellow. I changed the yellow to a hue to match Ultimarc GoldLeaf light blue buttons. The light blue could still change to another colour. I haven't mocked up any art with this palette yet, but I like the look. I'd probably use Formica Storm (912-58) laminate, and change the darkest grey of my palette to match that.

rablack97

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 01:43:21 pm »
Its my duty as a circle jerker to question why you want a console game on your cab instead of remaining where it belongs on your Wii,  however I like most everything else about what you got going on here other than the CP size.

Thought about any themes or colors?

Don't you take this here Harvey, don't you do it. >:D

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 01:50:44 pm »
Its my duty as a circle jerker to question why you want a console game on your cab instead of remaining where it belongs on your Wii

Thank you for addressing this important matter! ;) The answer is, "because I think it'll be fun." It's a favourite game in my group, and I think it'd be fun to play in an arcade-style context. Also, my build won't be slavishly-devoted to the classic arcade aesthetic. Builds that do that are awesome, but this won't be one of those.

however I like most everything else about what you got going on here other than the CP size.

Thought about any themes or colors?

Thanks. The CP is 32" at it's widest point. Not totally svelte, but it's narrower than Lusid's 34", the same as RDowney's Wild West Arcade, and just a little more than arcadecab.com's 30-3/8". I've mocked it up on paper, and it has a comfortable amount of room around the controls. I'd make it smaller if it felt like there was any excess, but I don't want it to feel cramped. What would you do about the CP size?

I've mulled over a few theme and colour ideas, but haven't firmly settled on anything yet. Maaaybe a Strikers or other modern-Mario theme, but I'd want to find a way to tone it down so it doesn't look too garish. It won't be a retro arcade-authentic style. Perhaps something sort of minimalist-geometric with some theme imagery blended in.

I ran across a palette I liked on a comic book title page the other day. (Pic below.) It originally had white, three shades of grey, and yellow. I changed the yellow to a hue to match Ultimarc GoldLeaf light blue buttons. The light blue could still change to another colour. I haven't mocked up any art with this palette yet, but I like the look. I'd probably use Formica Storm (912-58) laminate, and change the darkest grey of my palette to match that.

Word of advice and you wont see this till after you build it, following those plans is going to give you a monster of a cab.  You will find out you won't need half of that real estate for your controls.

Don't go crazy on your admin panel as well rdowney had alot on his and i copied it and i dont use half of em.

You base doesnt have to be that deep as well, unless its just the look you want.

And tell Harvey to go chase a Tree :cheers:  I put consoles in all of my machines, you wanna know why cause i hate playing on a couch with console controllers, the games are so much more fun standing up.  Tell him to stop being lazy.....

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 03:32:51 pm »
I made a pedestal and included console games. I used pretty much the same controls as you. The u360's don't feel anything like arcade controls. They lack that specific feedback you get from a normal joystick. I regret getting them, especially when I don't even play console games on it. I end up using a controller on the couch. It is pretty crazy to spend $300 more on PC hardware in order to emulate 1 or 2 games on the wii, and also downgrade the arcade controls in order to play them. It's great to have it all in theory, but you may find yourself regretting it like 99% of people who do it.

As far as the trackball goes, the distance from the ball to the screen is short. You are going to find yourself uncomfortably using it in order to stop your hand from hitting the wall of the screen. The P2 joystick is also going to get in the way for those aggressive trackball games, because you are going to paddle the trackball using the side of your hand and will not roll it exactly strait head on.

You can build what you think you want, but there is a reason why people are constantly bringing up these points and trying to persuade you to do otherwise. The joystick will be the biggest casualty in all of this.

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 03:42:34 pm »
I like the color scheme FWIW.


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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 04:45:15 pm »
I like the profile of your cabinet.  It is very similar to my Tron cabinet which was also inspired by Knievel.  You CP looks roughly the same size as mine and I don't find it to be overly large--although I did cram a spinner and Tron stick on mine.   >:D

Having said that I'd have to echo rablack97 a little and suggest that since you are using an LCD you consider a slimmer cabinet.  If you are happy with the look keep it as is.  Your proportions are classic.

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 05:28:58 pm »
Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

Word of advice and you wont see this till after you build it, following those plans is going to give you a monster of a cab.  You will find out you won't need half of that real estate for your controls.

Don't go crazy on your admin panel as well rdowney had alot on his and i copied it and i dont use half of em.

You base doesnt have to be that deep as well, unless its just the look you want.

The 24" monitor might be making the cab seem bigger than it is. The cabinet is only 24.5" wide (not counting the CP), and the base is 25" deep. I'll put up a pic with some other cabs for size reference later on.

I'm not going to have a separate admin panel, just coin-up and start buttons for each player.

I like the look of the base as-is. I'm not really into the super-slim look. I initially had the whole body a couple inches deeper, but found that I could fit both sides on one sheet of plywood/laminate if I slimmed it down a little. As a nice bonus, it ended up looking better (to me) slimmer. I tried even slimmer but didn't like it as much.

I made a pedestal and included console games. I used pretty much the same controls as you. The u360's don't feel anything like arcade controls. They lack that specific feedback you get from a normal joystick. I regret getting them, especially when I don't even play console games on it. I end up using a controller on the couch. It is pretty crazy to spend $300 more on PC hardware in order to emulate 1 or 2 games on the wii, and also downgrade the arcade controls in order to play them. It's great to have it all in theory, but you may find yourself regretting it like 99% of people who do it.

As far as the trackball goes, the distance from the ball to the screen is short. You are going to find yourself uncomfortably using it in order to stop your hand from hitting the wall of the screen. The P2 joystick is also going to get in the way for those aggressive trackball games, because you are going to paddle the trackball using the side of your hand and will not roll it exactly strait head on.

You can build what you think you want, but there is a reason why people are constantly bringing up these points and trying to persuade you to do otherwise. The joystick will be the biggest casualty in all of this.

I appreciate your thoughts, TW. I've read posts from a number of users on the U360s, positive and negative. I recognize that the U360s represent a compromise with regard to feel, but so far I think the tradeoff is worth it to me. I haven't played many arcade games in the last 20 years, so I'm not expecting a certain feel from the stick. I also like the 4-way/8-way switchability of the U360. They're not the only ones that do this, but it's a feature that I'll use.

On the other hand, I haven't actually used a U360 myself. Can you describe the aspect of their feel that you dislike?

As it's laid out now, the trackball's bezel is 9-3/8" from the back edge of the CP. I could move it back another 3/8" without expanding the CP box -- 9-3/4" from the glass. What distance from the screen do you recommend?

The trackball is 2-3/4" from the P2 joystick, laterally. Diagonally, it's about 3". That'd increase a little if I moved it back 3/8" as noted above. I see what you mean about the joystick interfering with a sidearm thrust. That might have to be a compromise I'll have to deal with, but I'm open to other ideas.

I like the profile of your cabinet.  It is very similar to my Tron cabinet which was also inspired by Knievel.  You CP looks roughly the same size as mine and I don't find it to be overly large--although I did cram a spinner and Tron stick on mine.   >:D

Having said that I'd have to echo rablack97 a little and suggest that since you are using an LCD you consider a slimmer cabinet.  If you are happy with the look keep it as is.  Your proportions are classic.

Thanks, 34, I like your Tron Legacy build! I tried modeling mine a little slimmer, but ended up liking it at this size.

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 10:21:55 pm »
Here's that comparison pic, with my cabinet in between Moon Patrol and Dig Dug.

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 10:45:20 pm »
I like the profile.  I appreciate that "Not ugly" is your first design goal.   :D  (I'd say you hit it.)

The control panel looks a little bit big to me, visually.  It's not an aircraft carrier or anything (mad props for that) but if you can shave an inch or so or so off it in width and/or depth I think it might help the balance.  (Might not be possible with 8 buttons per player, though.)

Incline angle on the control panel maybe feels a little steep to me.  Angle and height might be worth mocking up to test out before you cut wood, just to be sure.  (Edit - I take that back, based on the Dig Dug / Moon Patrol comparison shot, sorry!)

My trackball is similarly close to my p2 stick and I haven't regretted it.  Course, I don't play drunken-superman style either...  your habits and a matrix of guests / beers will probably govern how much space you actually need.

Nice design.  Looking forward to seeing it progress.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 11:07:30 pm by Laythe »

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 11:15:27 pm »
I like the profile.  I appreciate that "Not ugly" is your first design goal.   :D  (I'd say you hit it.)

The control panel looks a little bit big to me, visually.  It's not an aircraft carrier or anything (mad props for that) but if you can shave an inch or so or so off it in width and/or depth I think it might help the balance.  (Might not be possible with 8 buttons per player, though.)

Incline angle on the control panel maybe feels a little steep to me.  Angle and height might be worth mocking up to test out before you cut wood, just to be sure.

My trackball is similarly close to my p2 stick and I haven't regretted it.  Course, I don't play drunken-superman style either...  your habits and a matrix of guests / beers will probably govern how much space you actually need.

Nice design.  Looking forward to seeing it progress.

Thanks, Laythe.

The CP does look a little big, especially next to the vintage machines with their compact CPs. It's a tough balance: I don't want it to look dumb, but another fundamental design goal (that I forgot to list above) is "quite comfortable." I'd rather have a CP sized right so that my hands are comfy than one that looks trim but causes physical discomfort. I won't have vintage cabs neighbouring this one, so there won't be that juxtaposition, at least.

I actually did a bunch of measurements to see what a comfortable angle was for my head to be looking down at, how far a monitor of this size should be from my eyes, where the resultant centre point of the monitor was, where a comfortable CP height was, etc. Then a bunch of trigonometry to make it all line up. The depth of the CP allows for some follow-through on a forward trackball thrust, and puts my body at the desired distance from the monitor. Which is not to say that the design is infallible, just that I've been trying to balance comfort along with the visual design.

My initial plan was build the whole thing in cardboard before cutting any wood. I don't know if I'll do the whole thing now, but it'd probably be good to do the CP and monitor area.

I read that 5-10 degrees of CP angle was typical. One post indicated that 7 degrees was the perfect angle. Not knowing any better, I modeled mine at 7.1 degrees. (I didn't want to have to measure things down to sixty-fourths of an inch to hit 7.0 exactly.) I think it ended up with almost exactly the same slope as the Turtles in Time CP. That's something I'll have to test for feel when I make the cardboard mockup.

In some (non-angled) tests, 40" feels like a comfortable height for the controls. With some further trigonometry I was able to get the base of the joystick at 39 31/32" from the ground. Another thing to check on my mockup, but it's not arbitrary as-is.

Thanks for your trackball feedback. The guests and beers will be moderate, so I think the trackball spacing will be acceptable. I've mocked that up on paper, and it seems like there's a decent amount of room.

Thanks again for checking this out.

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2017, 11:24:02 pm »
...if you can shave an inch or so or so off it in width and/or depth I think it might help the balance.

Seeing my cabinet next to the other two, it looked a little too narrow. I moved the left and right sides out half an inch each, adding one inch to the total cabinet width. The body is now 25.5" wide. I think it helps the CP look better proportionate to the body, and the bezel ended up looking a little better, too.


rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2017, 11:27:04 pm »
The u360's don't feel anything like arcade controls. They lack that specific feedback you get from a normal joystick. I regret getting them

Hey, TW. Were your U360s stock, or did you use any of the options -- longer shaft, harder spring, restrictor plate?

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2017, 12:01:57 am »
Definitely more proportionate now bruh

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2017, 05:58:57 pm »
Good start, but not feeling that CP - it looks kinda plopped on.

rootbeer

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2017, 06:19:50 pm »
Good start, but not feeling that CP - it looks kinda plopped on.

Thanks, Stigzler. The CP's not perfect, but I'm not sure what I can adjust to make it look better. My design's in the vein of Knievel's Neon MAME (http://knievel.webs.com/neonmame.htm). I notice in his pics that the all-black CP helps hide its shape. Mine'll likely be a dark charcoal grey, so I think it won't stand out as much as it appears to in these all-white SketchUp renders.

I'm open to suggestions, though.

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2017, 05:19:25 pm »
Have you considered doing two CPs? One with a two player, and one with a trackball (or even two) for competitive Strikers?

Wire everything up to a quick release harness, and swap 'em out come game time. Just a thought, plans look good, now let's see some sawdust!

~Building Arcade Cabinets are like raising children, you always mess up your first~

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2017, 11:10:25 pm »
Yesterday I modeled the CP and monitor area in cardboard. I'd measured things like the CP and monitor heights and angles individually before, but it was good to see them all at once, and the relationships between them. It was comfortable. I liked it.

I've got a few little things -- monitor mount, speaker holes, marquee light mount, vents -- that I want to model in SketchUp, mostly to get their positioning figured out. The SketchUp stuff is close to complete, though!

Have you considered doing two CPs? One with a two player, and one with a trackball (or even two) for competitive Strikers?

Wire everything up to a quick release harness, and swap 'em out come game time. Just a thought, plans look good, now let's see some sawdust!

Thanks, Rep. I hadn't thought of that. It's not my preference, but it was worth considering. I don't want to add much to the complexity/cost of the project. More importantly, I know that, even if the CP change only took a couple minutes, I'd view it as an annoyance and avoid doing it most of the time. I'm happy with my design as-is. Thanks for bringing up the option, though.

Sawdust... I don't know when that'll be. I think it'll be sooner than I would have guessed a month ago, but likely not soon enough for people around here. I'm working on rounding up the tools, bits and blades and stuff. I put in an order today. Gotta wait for that to arrive. And learn how to use a saw and router safely.

Also, picking up plywood means borrowing a pickup truck, so I want to get the laminate in the same trip. That means confirming that I definitely want the dark grey laminate, which means at least some rough-draft art mockups. Lots to do, and I'm not going to be pulling any all-nighters on this, so this build might not move as quickly as some others.

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Re: As-yet-untitled cabinet (planning phase)
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2017, 07:52:22 pm »


Here are some of my design goals so far:

  • Title will not include my name, the word "MAME," or a portmanteau with the suffix "-cade."

This guy right here.  This guy knows what's up.

If you can't be a good example at least try to be a horrible reminder.