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Author Topic: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!  (Read 1364 times)

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keilmillerjr

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We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« on: March 01, 2017, 07:14:38 am »
I have a raspberry pi 2  that I quit working on once I learned that it couldn't do 240p over composite. There is a limitation put in place by the firmware. Some one yesterday came out with a test firmware allowing 240p and another user tested it and said it worked! This is huge for the retro community! I might order a pi3 and the composite dongle to try it out.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/683#issuecomment-283179792

Quote
I have a test firmware here:
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B-6zmEDJwxZEME9lSEFZRmQ5RGs&export=download
Can you set (in config.txt):
sdtv_progressive_scan=1
and report back.
We have a progressive scan bit in the VEC (composite) register set.
We've tested that before and it wasn't sufficient. I've also tried disabling the interlaced signal that gets set. I'm not sure if it does the right thing (my composite TV's quality is a bit too low to tell).

Quote
popcornmix:
You're amazing! I just bought an old SOny Trinitron CRT that I'm planning on RGB modding and putting into an arcade cabinet. I'm still waiting on a Gert's VGA adapter though, so until then I've been playing around with composite 480i... which looks like a total flickering mess! I happened to check the thread today and saw your new firmware, so I just briefly tested it out.

It's such a huge improvement running this monitor over 240p. No more flickering, just beautiful stable scanlines. Everything seemed to be solid for the few minutes I played around with it. The only thing I noticed was that my picture was noticeably warped and slightly titled near the edges of the screen. It could just be my TV, since it's opened up right now, but I didn't notice it when I was running 480i. Could be an issue with the sync over composite... not sure. I'll have to do a better comparison with 240p vs. 480i on the set tomorrow. (There was also a high-pitched whine from the speakers, but I'm guess that's just because the TV's guts are exposed right now)

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 10:41:02 am »
I'm really interested in checking this out. I have the composite cable and a handful of crappy old TVs
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nitrogen_widget

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 04:20:16 pm »
I have some pi 2's and 3's and those cables.
Any video camera or portable dvd player cable should work on the rpi2 to get composite out.
you just might have to put the red or white connector to the video in because wires aren't 100% for the rpi.

will load up rasbian lite tonight and see if this works.

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 01:19:04 am »
By the way, the Zune composite cable works great. And they're cheap on Amazon :)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:21:32 am by mahuti »
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nitrogen_widget

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 09:06:04 am »
stuff was compiling on my pi3 when i left for work so maybe i'll get to try this out tonight.

so....is advmame the way to go with this or will libretro fit stuff on the screen correctly also?
anyone try advmess or should i just stick with libretro for everything?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 09:25:54 am by nitrogen_widget »

nitrogen_widget

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 10:10:06 pm »
seems to work.
Zero flicker over composite on a thrift store 20" flat tube emerson TV.

This is advance mame 3 running on a rpi3 via command prompt.
will try NES/SNES/genesys emulators tomorrow.



« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 10:17:22 pm by nitrogen_widget »

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 10:57:18 am »
Very cool. Now I just need to stop making AttractMode themes long enough to do a compile.
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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 01:35:24 pm »
Very cool. Now I just need to stop making AttractMode themes long enough to do a compile.

I just installed pixel rasbian, ran raspi-update, downloaded the retropie script, installed advmame 3 (with advmess) along with attract mode, tweaked the advmame .rc file to make video and keyboard SDL, realized AM wasn't automagically configured properly and just made sure sdtv=16 in config.text

rebooted to command prompt
navigated to the advmame install folder and ran a ROM.

I did copy some roms to the roms folder also. :)

advmame is running at 320x240 but ghost n goblins is 256 by 224 i think so if it's pixel to pixel mapping it makes sense the game shows up in the middle of the TV screen and a little small.
In the pics i did have to use fractional scaling to fill the screen better and i really couldn't see a difference in pic quality.
I want to try this on an old crappy curved 19" crt i have buried in the basement.
The curved screens have a mask pattern that looks more like an arcade monitor.
But, the fact the screen isn't flickering is huge.
I think console emulators will work better as they had standard resolutions.

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 04:03:26 pm »
2 Outta my 4 cabs have TVs in em. Curved 19". So yeah, I plan to back up my RPI image and try this out.
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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 08:56:45 pm »
Played around with this a bit today. It's so awesome to see how stable the picture is on my crt. That being said, all of the overscan is driving me bananas. Any way to adjust it so it fills the whole screen. Just using basic ass retropie right now.

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 09:36:00 pm »
open config.txt
Code: [Select]
sudo pico /boot/config.txt
edit overscan options

Code: [Select]
disable_overscan=0
overscan_left=24
overscan_right=24
overscan_top=24
overscan_bottom=24

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/config-txt/video.md
(search for overscan)
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nitrogen_widget

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2017, 11:54:54 am »
2 Outta my 4 cabs have TVs in em. Curved 19". So yeah, I plan to back up my RPI image and try this out.

I must of tossed the old 19" CRT.
And i can't find any currently in that size when i was tripping over them the last few months.
I told people i didn't want them because they only had composite in and wanted component in TV's.  :banghead:

Their still out there and i'm sure i will come across more.

sealcouch

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2017, 02:10:06 pm »
open config.txt
Code: [Select]
sudo pico /boot/config.txt
edit overscan options

Code: [Select]
disable_overscan=0
overscan_left=24
overscan_right=24
overscan_top=24
overscan_bottom=24

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/config-txt/video.md
(search for overscan)

Yeah I'm aware of the overscan options it's just difficult to change those and get it picture perfect. I'm gonna try it on a fresh install when I get home.

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2017, 03:21:29 pm »
I don't know of any better way. It would be useful to maybe create a PNG with a numbered grid. Then you'd know about how far off and how far of you were and when you made a change you'd get a sense of how much that change affected your setup.
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Locke141

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 11:58:14 pm »
I just wanted to jump in to point out that you can get RGB via VGA with a hat. If you have a CRT tv that can take RGB or an arcade Monitor this may be fun.

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 04:28:39 am »
I tested this out and responded on the GitHub page.  240p works well, nice flicker-free picture at 60Hz.  Scanlines are obvious.

Downside is the Pi's CVBS is noisy as hell, and there's a lot of dot-crawl.  Comparing the Pi running, say, a Megadrive/Genesis emulator via CVBS/240p with an actual Megadrive/Genesis also via CVBS/240p, and the console is an ever so slightly cleaner picture. 

CVBS isn't pretty at the best of times, but the Pi's seems to get a lot of interference (straight off the chip - it's definitely not cables causing the problem). 

All the same, this is a great option for people who want a literal plug-and-play solution.  Cables are trivial to find, or you can solder straight to your Pi if you want a more permanent solution.   I've set up a a few CRT based arcade machines for friends using CVBS and a Pi, and they've all been 480i (interlaced) which sucks.  I'll make my way around them all converting them to 240p now as soon as I can.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2017, 06:47:57 pm »
I just wanted to jump in to point out that you can get RGB via VGA with a hat. If you have a CRT tv that can take RGB or an arcade Monitor this may be fun.

i found an applecolor rgb monitor and just got in the adaptor for it so looking forward to using the pi with it for amiga/apple/atari st emulation.

Also going to toy with rgb to component conversion when i have time.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2017, 06:53:12 pm »
I tested this out and responded on the GitHub page.  240p works well, nice flicker-free picture at 60Hz.  Scanlines are obvious.

Downside is the Pi's CVBS is noisy as hell, and there's a lot of dot-crawl.  Comparing the Pi running, say, a Megadrive/Genesis emulator via CVBS/240p with an actual Megadrive/Genesis also via CVBS/240p, and the console is an ever so slightly cleaner picture. 

CVBS isn't pretty at the best of times, but the Pi's seems to get a lot of interference (straight off the chip - it's definitely not cables causing the problem). 

All the same, this is a great option for people who want a literal plug-and-play solution.  Cables are trivial to find, or you can solder straight to your Pi if you want a more permanent solution.   I've set up a a few CRT based arcade machines for friends using CVBS and a Pi, and they've all been 480i (interlaced) which sucks.  I'll make my way around them all converting them to 240p now as soon as I can.

agreed.
but still looks WAY better than 480i.

keilmillerjr

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2017, 03:23:22 am »
240pcomposipi. :)

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2017, 07:30:58 pm »
I just set this up. Backed up my card, copied over the files mentioned here:

http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2017/03/raspberry-pi-240p-composite-output.html

And was good to go. Now messing with settings. Anyone have any configs they wanna share?
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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2017, 10:37:18 am »
For someone that has this working, could you please post the key elements of your config.txt.

I am trying this with a g07 monitor but can't get a full size picture, nor will it sync properly.

Pi 3 with hdmi_group=1,  hdmi_mode=8 for 240p
Hdmi to vga adapter, the typical cheap model on ebay/amazon.
ultimarc j-pac with the 15khz jumper in place
jamma video wires running into the g07.

Other pcbs work with the jamma harness including original pacman pcb, so I know the jamma harness and monitor are wired and working properly. 

thank you.

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2017, 01:25:07 pm »
I'll review the post in a bit, but it's off topic. This topic is referencing composite output. Not output to hdmi. Might wanna start a new thread
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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2017, 01:41:18 pm »
I'll review the post in a bit, but it's off topic. This topic is referencing composite output. Not output to hdmi. Might wanna start a new thread

forgive my choice of words as I likely might not even understand how to do it so using the word HDMI could be incorrect on my part.  Above I see the words hdmi to vga.  and the jack on the pi is physically an hdmi jack. 

If you could post with exact clarity how to get output from a pi to show up on an arcade monitor, that's what I'm actually seeking.

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2017, 01:58:39 pm »
No big. Just sayin. This post is related to getting low res video out of the headphone composite jack. HDMI/vga... totally different settings. I'll see what I have on CGA via JPAC and vga

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 02:34:06 pm »
ok, i have a 3 wire rca plug that goes into the 3.5mm jack, as well.

I am interested in how you set this up to work.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 02:35:39 pm by 1500points »

mahuti

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2017, 03:29:14 pm »
That probably won't help with arcade monitors. Only TVs. Which... is why your question is totally off topic :-)

That said, do you have the 5v powered off the jPac? Or off your cabinet's power supply? If going off the Jpac, it'll probably be too low.

Have you checked the indicator light on the JPac to see if the signal is valid?

is your Pi set to output Pal, or the default NTSC?

My one arcade monitor is crapping out right now otherwise I'd test the JPac I have laying around (I need a cap kit). Personally, I use one of those VGA-CGA converters and it works fine, but I hear the straight JPac method works better.

The last settings I was using for it won't really apply for you, but this is what they were

Code: [Select]
hdmi_drive=1
config_hdmi_boost=6
hdmi_ignore_edid=0xa5000080
hdmi_group=2
hdmi_mode=4 (640x480 @60hz... which is what the crappy CGA converter uses)
disable_overscan=1

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Re: We possibly have 240p over composite on rpi now!
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2017, 04:25:34 pm »
thanks for the t-shooting ideas.
I guess I was hoping for some magic cross-over to get arcade crt working.
I do see a somewhat related thread on the list, I'll see what I can shake loose in that one.
:)

  
 

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