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Author Topic: First it was Predator, now it's Alien...  (Read 24500 times)

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pbj

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2017, 09:52:32 am »
It may just be me, but I always get a sense of unease whenever it's been awhile since a Xiaou2 post. 

Like.... good news ain't the reason he isn't posting.


CheffoJeffo

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #81 on: February 24, 2017, 09:54:59 am »
I'm sure we will see some decent people slide down the wrong path.  Just protect yourself and use your common sense.  Just remember how lucky you are, and how easy it is to lose it all.   :o
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #82 on: February 24, 2017, 11:14:54 am »
It may just be me, but I always get a sense of unease whenever it's been awhile since a Xiaou2 post. 

Like.... good news ain't the reason he isn't posting.
It's not just you. I have actually reached out to him before when it's been a while since he's posted. I know a lot of people don't care for him, but he's still one of us.
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #83 on: February 24, 2017, 11:15:54 am »
Like, I'm being sincere when I say I wish there was some way we could get him out to ZapCon.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

dkersten

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Re: MAME Legality - Real World Example
« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2017, 12:01:26 pm »
Why did you not sue the sites hosting your book? You could have easily recovered some of your losses, and stop future copyright violations.
You didn't read my post very well.

If there was someone making a lot of money on my book, I would sue in a second.  But there isn't. 

It gets pirated, but it gets pirated by people who would never buy it anyway.  So there is no money lost by me. 

The copyright holders of roms are not losing money when people pirate the roms.

The people pirating roms either would never pay for the roms, or are willing to pay but the owners are not offering it for sale. 

Either way, no money in it, and you can't get blood from a turnip.


Frankly, piracy is a spin topic, a way for media companies to claim losses where there are little to none.  Of everything I have pirated in my life, I would have paid for less than 5% of it if it had not been so easily available for free.  The rest I just would never have bothered with.  I could spin my own situation and say that potentially thousands of books have been pirated from me, and then claim losses of nearly ten thousand dollars.  In reality, I probably gained from it because those people who pirated it read it and some told paying customers about it and I made sales as a result. 

And when it all comes down to it, what skin do you have in this game?  How much has piracy cost you?  Because if you have not lost anything from piracy, you are arguing a case on behalf of people who don't bother to argue because there is nothing to gain from it.  If you want to join an effort, get with the RIAA and help them go after old ladies whose grandkids download music for free.  Nobody is campaigning for ending the piracy of 80's software. 

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2017, 12:03:13 pm »
I think it is a great wake up call, and if you do not protect yourself, then it only you who is to blame.
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Re: MAME Legality - Real World Example
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2017, 01:45:33 pm »

The people pirating roms either would never pay for the roms, or are willing to pay but the owners are not offering it for sale.
You are ignoring the category of people who will download for free when they can but will pay if they can't. You later backtrack on this false dichotomy using yourself as anecdotal evidence that this omitted category is insignificant,  but anecdotal evidence has the reputation it has for a reason. It's a pretty bold claim that nearly everybody who pirates something wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't available for piracy. It's not the type of claim I would make without real evidence.

Quote
In reality, I probably gained from it because those people who pirated it read it and some told paying customers about it and I made sales as a result.
I hope that's true. If that's how you defend/cope with/market the piracy of your product, and it works for you, then that's swell. However, if the owners of some other IP take a different stance (not just talking about arcade games), then it's nothing but self-serving BS to claim that you're helping them to market their product by pirating it.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 01:49:17 pm by DrakeTungsten »
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2017, 01:48:51 pm »
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Le Chuck

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2017, 07:09:53 pm »
Like, I'm being sincere when I say I wish there was some way we could get him out to ZapCon.

You mean besides paying his way and putting him up on your/haruman's couch/hotel?  Seems pretty straight forward.  ::) 

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2017, 07:30:12 pm »
Like, I'm being sincere when I say I wish there was some way we could get him out to ZapCon.

You mean besides paying his way and putting him up on your/haruman's couch/hotel?  Seems pretty straight forward.  ::)
Well, yeah, I'm sure that van doesn't run on rainbows and wishes!
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2017, 07:33:03 pm »
It runs off the blood of narcissists.

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2017, 08:10:00 pm »
Well he can do what he likes since it isn't a crime any more to sell your cabinet with roms inside.   :o
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Re: MAME Legality - Real World Example
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2017, 08:25:36 pm »
You are ignoring the category of people who will download for free when they can but will pay if they can't. You later backtrack on this false dichotomy using yourself as anecdotal evidence that this omitted category is insignificant,  but anecdotal evidence has the reputation it has for a reason. It's a pretty bold claim that nearly everybody who pirates something wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't available for piracy. It's not the type of claim I would make without real evidence.
Not ignoring them, just have never seen a shred of evidence that shows they are a significant group of people.

And who better to talk about the real effects of piracy than someone who is an actual victim?

Quote from: Tommy Boy
Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.

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In reality, I probably gained from it because those people who pirated it read it and some told paying customers about it and I made sales as a result.
I hope that's true. If that's how you defend/cope with/market the piracy of your product, and it works for you, then that's swell. However, if the owners of some other IP take a different stance (not just talking about arcade games), then it's nothing but self-serving BS to claim that you're helping them to market their product by pirating it.
It's a common belief among self publishers.  It didn't come naturally though, it is a consensus derived from many authors spending the time tracking sales and experimenting with different marketing techniques, including making their books available for free.  In fact, that kind of marketing is well established and offers a ton of empirical insight into how having your media out there for free affects your ability to make money.  There is also a lot of evidence out there that people who get your book for free would never have bought it.  When you track your numbers closely and experiment with different marketing techniques, you are no longer working with "anecdotal evidence", you are working with empirical evidence.

Furthermore, although I am not going to go search out examples, I recall more than once a company "leaking" copies of music or movies to garner exposure.  If you believe for a second that half the music that is making money today would have made more than a few pennies if not for rampant piracy (and the exposure that comes with it) then you are delusional. 

I don't support piracy.  And I am also guilty of practicing it once in a while, particularly in my youth. I accept that it is a fact of life and that there is nothing I can do to stop someone who wants my IP for free.  I am pretty damn sure piracy isn't holding me back from being a best seller either, or even taking food off my table.  Can I prove it?  No, but common sense combined with what I have experienced in my life strongly suggests that I am on the right track.  When it comes down to it, I know what sells books - exposure.  I can run an ad in a given market and tell you ahead of time within 5-10% how many books I will sell.  You can't do that based on feelings, you do it with hard evidence. Then I can use the sales from that ad and determine with relatively good accuracy just how many ancillary sales I will get.  The same can be applied to pirates.  Expose them to your product and you will get ancillary sales.  That only leaves a question of whether a pirate will pay for your product if he can't steal it.  Based on a lot of collected data on free giveaways, the answer there is pretty clear as well:  no, most people who will download your free book would never have bought it.

But none of this matters, if you believe piracy is evil and every download is taking food off some copyright holder's table, then you aren't going to listen to any kind of evidence, empirical or anecdotal.  Trust me, it sucks the first time you see something you worked hard to create sitting out there for free, but just like a bad review on your product, you learn to live with it, and do your best to use it to your advantage.  No sense in whining and complaining about it, particularly when it never even affected you directly.

dkersten

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2017, 08:27:00 pm »
It runs off the blood of narcissists.
aaaaaand, we're back to mental disorders.. :angel:

CheffoJeffo

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2017, 08:31:59 pm »
It runs off the blood of narcissists.
aaaaaand, we're back to mental disorders.. :angel:

If you play in the toilet you are bound to get ---smurfy--- eventually.
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2017, 08:32:56 pm »
You guys are really ---smurfin---' up my beer thread here...
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2017, 08:35:54 pm »
So is there a gofundme or not?

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2017, 08:36:11 pm »
Here you go. Back on track.

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2017, 08:38:22 pm »
You guys are really ---smurfin---' up my beer thread here...

I'm happy with it, and  that is what is important.  ;)

How about for every donation, I'll find an appropriate ArkMangle(tm) response?
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2017, 09:00:40 pm »
You guys are really ---smurfin---' up my beer thread here...

I'm happy with it, and  that is what is important.  ;)

How about for every donation, I'll find an appropriate ArkMangle(tm) response?
I'm gonna donate daily then!!!

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2017, 09:09:02 pm »
I am not alone in this thinking. 
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Nephasth

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Re: MAME Legality - Real World Example
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2017, 09:20:38 pm »
So is there a gofundme or not?

Start a go fund me to get your money back. I will donate a dollar i promise.

Or you could just https://www.paypal.me/nephasth a dollar...
%Bartop

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2017, 09:57:47 pm »
Gotcha man

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Re: MAME Legality - Real World Example
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2017, 10:01:37 pm »
You are ignoring the category of people who will download for free when they can but will pay if they can't. You later backtrack on this false dichotomy using yourself as anecdotal evidence that this omitted category is insignificant,  but anecdotal evidence has the reputation it has for a reason. It's a pretty bold claim that nearly everybody who pirates something wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't available for piracy. It's not the type of claim I would make without real evidence.
Not ignoring them, just have never seen a shred of evidence that shows they are a significant group of people.
And I've never seen a shred of evidence that they aren't significant. Granted, I haven't looked for myself, but whenever I ask the "my piracy is actually beneficial for the producers of the work" advocates, they've never given me evidence for their claims. I don't claim to know either way. I would just expect people who do take a stance have something to back it up with.

Quote
It's a common belief among self publishers.  It didn't come naturally though, it is a consensus derived from many authors spending the time tracking sales and experimenting with different marketing techniques, including making their books available for free.  In fact, that kind of marketing is well established and offers a ton of empirical insight into how having your media out there for free affects your ability to make money.  There is also a lot of evidence out there that people who get your book for free would never have bought it.

Well, if you say so, sure, I guess.  Other than lack of citation, I have no reason to doubt you.

Quote
When you track your numbers closely and experiment with different marketing techniques, you are no longer working with "anecdotal evidence", you are working with empirical evidence.
Seriously, I'm not doubting that you're accurately describing your own experience or that your conclusions are valid for your experience, but you're not providing anything concrete to make me consider "my piracy actually helps out the IP owners" claims are anything more than feel-good justifications. You do understand when people claim that their illegal activities actually benefit the folks that would appear to be possibly harmed by said activities, then a degree of skepticism is warranted, yes?

Quote
I recall more than once a company "leaking" copies of music or movies to garner exposure.
I have no reason to doubt this. And that was their choice. Others do not choose this. For the ones who decide not to market in such a manner, don't insult my intelligence by telling me that you're doing charity marketing work for them when you pirate their product. Are you also going to volunteer to do HR work for them? Accounting, maybe? If your interest is in marketing and you feel so strongly that their marketing department is dropping the ball and you need to fix it, then apply for a job in their marketing department.

Quote
If you believe for a second that half the music that is making money today would have made more than a few pennies if not for rampant piracy (and the exposure that comes with it) then you are delusional.
I have no opinion on the subject at all. But until you deign to link to real research, I'd hold off on calling people delusional.

Quote
I am pretty damn sure piracy isn't holding me back from being a best seller either, or even taking food off my table.  Can I prove it?  No, but common sense
Yeah, common sense. Everyone's a genius marketing expert/professional sports coach/armchair general/political strategist. I'll take empirical evidence over common sense any day.

Quote
But none of this matters, if you believe piracy is evil and every download is taking food off some copyright holder's table,
This doesn't describe me at all

Quote
then you aren't going to listen to any kind of evidence, empirical or anecdotal.
Don't get so defensive. Pre-emptively accusing me of a closed mind is a low tactic. Here's an idea: provide your empirical evidence, and then when I dismiss it as you predict, you'll have the pleasure of pointing to my closed mind and laughing. When someone throws anecdotal evidence at me and only claims they have empirical evidence, and then gives themselves an excuse for not providing empirical evidence, I have to wonder about the existence of this alleged empirical evidence. Would you not entertain the same skepticism in my position?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 10:32:37 pm by DrakeTungsten »
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2017, 10:09:30 pm »
Cheffo... Deven just dropped $25 into the beer fund! Give that man a wall of ArkMangle(tm) responses!
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2017, 10:18:37 pm »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2017, 10:40:28 pm »
Damn at this rate the beer fund could have the potential to reach titties out level by Zapcon

Nephasth

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2017, 10:42:53 pm »
$74.82 as of now...
%Bartop

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2017, 10:51:51 pm »
%Bartop

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #109 on: February 25, 2017, 12:15:42 am »
Sorry to here about the scam, bro! Donation sent. ;)

Bring on the next ark quote!

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #110 on: February 25, 2017, 12:27:12 am »
Sorry to here about the scam, bro! Donation sent. ;)

Bring on the next ark quote!

There are plenty of gems on here to get that 4K together.
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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #111 on: February 25, 2017, 05:53:52 am »
Sorry to here about the scam, bro! Donation sent. ;)

Bring on the next ark quote!

There are plenty of gems on here to get that 4K together.

Does that count as an Ark quote?

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #112 on: February 25, 2017, 10:28:27 am »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.


 :'(

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #113 on: February 25, 2017, 10:31:53 am »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.


 :'(
Well since you didnt go, it sounds like you owe 20 to the beer fund.

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #114 on: February 25, 2017, 10:38:59 am »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.


 :'(
Well since you didnt go, it sounds like you owe 20 to the beer fund.
Naw, PBJ donated $65  to the Eats Committee. He's aces in my book.
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thomas_surles

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #115 on: February 25, 2017, 10:40:30 am »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.


 :'(
Well since you didnt go, it sounds like you owe 20 to the beer fund.
Naw, PBJ donated $65  to the Eats Committee. He's aces in my book.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.

yotsuya

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #116 on: February 25, 2017, 10:43:10 am »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.


 :'(
Well since you didnt go, it sounds like you owe 20 to the beer fund.
Naw, PBJ donated $65  to the Eats Committee. He's aces in my book.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.

So are you still scuffing up the Michelin, or are you gonna commit?
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #117 on: February 25, 2017, 12:07:30 pm »
I find it funny that beer fund has probably raised over 60 bucks, and we only got twenty bucks to get PBJ to ZapCon.


 :'(
Well since you didnt go, it sounds like you owe 20 to the beer fund.
Naw, PBJ donated $65  to the Eats Committee. He's aces in my book.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.

So are you still scuffing up the Michelin, or are you gonna commit?
Firestone.

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Re: Neph's ZapCon Beer Money Extravaganza!!!1!1
« Reply #118 on: February 25, 2017, 03:07:49 pm »
Cheffo... Deven just dropped $25 into the beer fund! Give that man a wall of ArkMangle(tm) responses!

I know I get that all the time.
You are such a cunny funt. 
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Re: MAME Legality - Real World Example
« Reply #119 on: February 25, 2017, 03:08:59 pm »
You are ignoring the category of people who will download for free when they can but will pay if they can't. You later backtrack on this false dichotomy using yourself as anecdotal evidence that this omitted category is insignificant,  but anecdotal evidence has the reputation it has for a reason. It's a pretty bold claim that nearly everybody who pirates something wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't available for piracy. It's not the type of claim I would make without real evidence.
Not ignoring them, just have never seen a shred of evidence that shows they are a significant group of people.
And I've never seen a shred of evidence that they aren't significant. Granted, I haven't looked for myself, but whenever I ask the "my piracy is actually beneficial for the producers of the work" advocates, they've never given me evidence for their claims. I don't claim to know either way. I would just expect people who do take a stance have something to back it up with.

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It's a common belief among self publishers.  It didn't come naturally though, it is a consensus derived from many authors spending the time tracking sales and experimenting with different marketing techniques, including making their books available for free.  In fact, that kind of marketing is well established and offers a ton of empirical insight into how having your media out there for free affects your ability to make money.  There is also a lot of evidence out there that people who get your book for free would never have bought it.

Well, if you say so, sure, I guess.  Other than lack of citation, I have no reason to doubt you.

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When you track your numbers closely and experiment with different marketing techniques, you are no longer working with "anecdotal evidence", you are working with empirical evidence.
Seriously, I'm not doubting that you're accurately describing your own experience or that your conclusions are valid for your experience, but you're not providing anything concrete to make me consider "my piracy actually helps out the IP owners" claims are anything more than feel-good justifications. You do understand when people claim that their illegal activities actually benefit the folks that would appear to be possibly harmed by said activities, then a degree of skepticism is warranted, yes?

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I recall more than once a company "leaking" copies of music or movies to garner exposure.
I have no reason to doubt this. And that was their choice. Others do not choose this. For the ones who decide not to market in such a manner, don't insult my intelligence by telling me that you're doing charity marketing work for them when you pirate their product. Are you also going to volunteer to do HR work for them? Accounting, maybe? If your interest is in marketing and you feel so strongly that their marketing department is dropping the ball and you need to fix it, then apply for a job in their marketing department.

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If you believe for a second that half the music that is making money today would have made more than a few pennies if not for rampant piracy (and the exposure that comes with it) then you are delusional.
I have no opinion on the subject at all. But until you deign to link to real research, I'd hold off on calling people delusional.

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I am pretty damn sure piracy isn't holding me back from being a best seller either, or even taking food off my table.  Can I prove it?  No, but common sense
Yeah, common sense. Everyone's a genius marketing expert/professional sports coach/armchair general/political strategist. I'll take empirical evidence over common sense any day.

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But none of this matters, if you believe piracy is evil and every download is taking food off some copyright holder's table,
This doesn't describe me at all

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then you aren't going to listen to any kind of evidence, empirical or anecdotal.
Don't get so defensive. Pre-emptively accusing me of a closed mind is a low tactic. Here's an idea: provide your empirical evidence, and then when I dismiss it as you predict, you'll have the pleasure of pointing to my closed mind and laughing. When someone throws anecdotal evidence at me and only claims they have empirical evidence, and then gives themselves an excuse for not providing empirical evidence, I have to wonder about the existence of this alleged empirical evidence. Would you not entertain the same skepticism in my position?

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