CONTROL PANEL LAYOUT SUGGESTIONS- 6 BUTTONS OR 7 BUTTONS??

[JBED]

Hi guys,

I am working on a new layout for my mame machine. Please check out my design and artwork.

I was thinking about making a 4 player control panel because my mame machine is a tmnt themed cabinet but the more I read up on 4 player control panels it was enough to change my mind.

I plan on playing neo geo games so I wanted to know who uses a 7 button layout and is it worth having the 7th button to play neo geo/mk run button??

Any suggestions on my layout is greatly appreciated

Thanks

[Titchgamer]

I dont use a 7 button layout, just the 6 and I use button 4 as A for neo geo then buttons 123 for BCD.
That works fine for me but each to their own.

My only comment is your  (start?) buttons are not symmetrical :p

[JBED]

Thanks for the reply Titchgamer. I meant to add that is better to put the start/player 1 and 2 symmetrical to the select/exit etc buttons. I will move up the start buttons.

[paigeoliver]

6 buttons is all you need, anyone who is that accustomed to 4 button Neo Geo fighting games is going to stomp all over you even if the layout is wrong.

[Necro]

If you're only going to do fighters and it's 'everything', do the 7 - just realize you need to make a joystick placement choice that either has the NeoGeo 4 buttons or the other fighter 6-buttons aligned 'properly'. 

Biggest suggestion is get some fiberboard, cut out your layout, and try both before you build the final.  That'll give you a good idea of what you are most comfortable with and something I did for AWHILE before finalizing.  (I also had an X-Arcade originally that helped me determine that a 6-button layout was fine for me.)

One question - what's the purpose of the 4 buttons at the top?  I'm assuming the two buttons lower are start buttons. Are they for controls? 

[keilmillerjr]

Eliminate 3 buttons at the top, eliminate the trackball, eliminate the LCD I know is there even though it's absent from the drawing, and limit to 4 buttons per player. Then buy yourself a Fosters. Its Australian for Kade.

[TheDotEater]

Six buttons are plenty for the vast majority of games so this typically comes down to personal preference. The suggestion to make a test panel out of cheaper materials is correct and something you will definitely want to do.

I know for me personally I opted for the seventh button because Neo Geo games are some of my favorites. I also went for the more ergonomic curved layout as fighting games aren't my favorite. None of my friends who are into fighters seem to mind or even notice and can play SFII and the like just fine.

Another thing to consider is what platforms you want to support. If you're going straight MAME or MAME with some old school consoles then a six button layout is just fine. However, if you decide to expand into newer generation consoles or even PC games then there are advantages to having more buttons. For instance, if you go with seven buttons then the seventh (thumb) button can be a shift key that turns your L1 and R1 triggers into L2 and R2. Or, if that's too clunky you can opt for eight buttons although keep in mind the more buttons you add the more complicated and intimidating your panel becomes.

The one thing that ultimately made me decide to go with a seven button layout is using button 4 for A and 123 for BCD makes certain Neo Geo titles cumbersome to play. Take Windjammers for example. That game is super fast paced and making the split second decision to lob vs throw is difficult when the B button is stacked on top of the A button. But yeah, personal preference. My advice, look at the games you want to support, decide how many buttons you think you want, build a test panel, revise, build again, etc until you get it just the way you want it.

The last thing I'll add is if you're adding a trackball you may want to move it down slightly. This puts the P2 joystick out of the way for left and right movement and also gives you more room above so you're not breaking your fingers on the bezel playing Golden Tee.

Hope this helps. 

[JBED]

6 buttons is all you need, anyone who is that accustomed to 4 button Neo Geo fighting games is going to stomp all over you even if the layout is wrong.

Thanks Paigeoliver

[JBED]

If you're only going to do fighters and it's 'everything', do the 7 - just realize you need to make a joystick placement choice that either has the NeoGeo 4 buttons or the other fighter 6-buttons aligned 'properly'. 

Biggest suggestion is get some fiberboard, cut out your layout, and try both before you build the final.  That'll give you a good idea of what you are most comfortable with and something I did for AWHILE before finalizing.  (I also had an X-Arcade originally that helped me determine that a 6-button layout was fine for me.)

One question - what's the purpose of the 4 buttons at the top?  I'm assuming the two buttons lower are start buttons. Are they for controls?

Thanks for the suggestions Necro, Cut outs will definitely help! The top buttons are for ENTER/PAUSE/GENRE (also used as my tab for mame)/EXIT 

[JBED]

Eliminate 3 buttons at the top, eliminate the trackball, eliminate the LCD I know is there even though it's absent from the drawing, and limit to 4 buttons per player. Then buy yourself a Fosters. Its Australian for Kade.

Thanks for the suggestions but you're wrong its not an LCD its an LED TV!!! had to go slim do to where the machine is placed in the basement.

[JBED]

Six buttons are plenty for the vast majority of games so this typically comes down to personal preference. The suggestion to make a test panel out of cheaper materials is correct and something you will definitely want to do.

I know for me personally I opted for the seventh button because Neo Geo games are some of my favorites. I also went for the more ergonomic curved layout as fighting games aren't my favorite. None of my friends who are into fighters seem to mind or even notice and can play SFII and the like just fine.

Another thing to consider is what platforms you want to support. If you're going straight MAME or MAME with some old school consoles then a six button layout is just fine. However, if you decide to expand into newer generation consoles or even PC games then there are advantages to having more buttons. For instance, if you go with seven buttons then the seventh (thumb) button can be a shift key that turns your L1 and R1 triggers into L2 and R2. Or, if that's too clunky you can opt for eight buttons although keep in mind the more buttons you add the more complicated and intimidating your panel becomes.

The one thing that ultimately made me decide to go with a seven button layout is using button 4 for A and 123 for BCD makes certain Neo Geo titles cumbersome to play. Take Windjammers for example. That game is super fast paced and making the split second decision to lob vs throw is difficult when the B button is stacked on top of the A button. But yeah, personal preference. My advice, look at the games you want to support, decide how many buttons you think you want, build a test panel, revise, build again, etc until you get it just the way you want it.

The last thing I'll add is if you're adding a trackball you may want to move it down slightly. This puts the P2 joystick out of the way for left and right movement and also gives you more room above so you're not breaking your fingers on the bezel playing Golden Tee.

Hope this helps. 

Thanks for the suggestions TheDotEater. The cabinet is going to be used strictly for mame games. I would love to have another cabinet for strictly neo geo games but I don't have the space. Thanks for the heads up on the trackball!  I will test out some other button layouts that I have seen on the forum.

[pbj]

6 buttons, do the NeoGeo layout like this;

B C D
A X X

Close enough.  Most of the games have not held up well, and those that have generally only use 2-3 buttons anyway.

[JBED]

6 buttons, do the NeoGeo layout like this;

B C D
A X X

Close enough.  Most of the games have not held up well, and those that have generally only use 2-3 buttons anyway.

Thanks for the layout Pbj.

[TheDotEater]

6 buttons, do the NeoGeo layout like this;

B C D
A X X

Close enough.  Most of the games have not held up well, and those that have generally only use 2-3 buttons anyway.

If anything I would think setting it up like this:

A B C
D X X

Most Neo Geo titles with the exception of fighters don't use all four buttons. This seems especially true of earlier titles. This would also be the natural control mapping in MAME.

[JBED]

We play a lot of Baseball All Stars 2 so I kept the (Time out) as the 4th button in the past.

[Titchgamer]

6 buttons, do the NeoGeo layout like this;

B C D
A X X

Close enough.  Most of the games have not held up well, and those that have generally only use 2-3 buttons anyway.

Thats the layout I use.

Thumb on A and 3 fingers for BCD.
I have the curved button layout and find that comfortable.
Never liked the 2 straight line layout personally.

When I actually marked out the panel for my CP i spread my fingers and used my fingertips as the placement guide for the buttons :p

[thomas_surles]

6 buttons, do the NeoGeo layout like this;

B C D
A X X

Close enough.  Most of the games have not held up well, and those that have generally only use 2-3 buttons anyway.

Thats the layout I use.

Thumb on A and 3 fingers for BCD.
I have the curved button layout and find that comfortable.
Never liked the 2 straight line layout personally.

When I actually marked out the panel for my CP i spread my fingers and used my fingertips as the placement guide for the buttons :p

ABC
DXX

I like mine like that and use the thumb for D. I mostly play metal slug and it only uses 3 anyway

[Ian]

I love my 7 button layout... why not have a 7th button? Buttons are like $2!!!!!


If you are thinking about it... then do it. it's super simple and who the hell cares if you have to wire a couple extra buttons. Im not the best neogeo player, but having the row of 4 buttons is nice to have for sure!

[Titchgamer]

Oh the other reason I have mine laid out like I do is so my RGB buttons light up in the correct layout lol

[Ian]

I just don't understand why we would be encouraging just using the 6 buttons when 7 buttons is not a hard thing to do, nor is it expensive, nor does it affect the game play of nonneogeo games... why are we over complicating things (layout x or layout y). You don't need to do a special layout when you drill an extra hole.

[pbj]

Because it looks stupid and is unnecessary.

[Ian]

Because it looks stupid and is unnecessary.

Great reason. I never thought of that. Thank you for cracking that egg of knowledge all over me.


In other news... it's easy to do and it looks just fine. This will make playing neo geo games the way they are meant to be played. And as an added bonus most neo geo games have a tutorial on what buttons are what in the actual game which is much easier to explain to a guest than... "ummm... a b c are on the top... d is on the second row I think... youll figure it out".

[keilmillerjr]

Eliminate 3 buttons at the top, eliminate the trackball, eliminate the LCD I know is there even though it's absent from the drawing, and limit to 4 buttons per player. Then buy yourself a Fosters. Its Australian for Kade.

Thanks for the suggestions but you're wrong its not an LCD its an LED TV!!! had to go slim do to where the machine is placed in the basement.

[pbj]

---fudgesicle--- it, go 10 buttons.  15.  Do it.  It's so easy and inexpensive.

[Titchgamer]

Because it looks stupid and is unnecessary.

I think it looks fine when they are positioned right.

IE Neo Geo layout of A-D then 3 buttons directly bellow B-D.

Though tbh If I was going to do 4 in a Row I would make it a 8 button setup rather than 7 but I like symmetry :p

[8BitMonk]

Whichever way you go you've got some spacing issues to resolve. See the attached pic with center lines. The controls should be centered in each half, the 2 admin buttons in the upper left and right should have matching positions on either side.

[Ian]

---fudgesicle--- it, go 10 buttons.  15.  Do it.  It's so easy and inexpensive.

Yep... because that was the plan... man you are on point today PBJ!

[JBED]

Thanks again for all the suggestions! Thanks for the info 8Bitmonk.

Its not the price or the extra hole to add the 7th button more the advice from people that have or had the 7 button layout. Do you guys only use the 7th button setup for neo geo games or do you use it for any other mame game like MK3 (run button)?

Thanks for your time! 

[Ian]

Thanks again for all the suggestions! Thanks for the info 8Bitmonk.

Its not the price or the extra hole to add the 7th button more the advice from people that have or had the 7 button layout. Do you guys only use the 7th button setup for neo geo games or do you use it for any other mame game like MK3 (run button)?

Thanks for your time!

That's exactly my point. I have 7 buttons and its great to have for games for the Neo Geo. You can set it up with the run button as well. It's there for anything you want really. I personally use mine for only Neo Geo games, but I love it and hope you do it for your set up. I doubt there are any arcade games that are actually 7 buttons so chances are those of us who have the 7th button only use it for Neo Geo.

[romshark]

My current big cabinet uses the 7-button layout. Besides the Neo-Geo, this layout is also used for the BlazBlue games (played via the Taito-X and NESICA systems on your PC). Just something to note.

That being said, I don't use the 7th button very much otherwise, and personally, I plan to leave it out on my next revision (going with the standard 6-button layout. Also planning on leaving out the trackball) However, that's just me. Build some prototypes out of cheep wood and play it for a week, to see what works best.

[Malenko]

When I had a MAME cab I had the 7th button.  The obvious use for it is both the run button in MK3/UMK3 and the A button in NeoGeo.

Im in the minority but I mapped the "ABC" of the neogeo row to inputs 1,2, and 3 because it was more comfortable for me and made more sense than playing above a row of buttons.  Takes a little extra work to set up (have to remap all the 6 button games) but it was worth it to me.

No trackball for me, don't like centipede or missile command enough to add it.

[JBED]

Thanks Malenko,

I would want to use the lower buttons as well. The trackball would be for some classics and guests that ask for golden tee.... some spinner games I can get away with using the trackball. Also playing a poor man's game of T2.

[TheDotEater]

Where's that post that says something like "ultimately it's your cab, your decision, and who cares if others don't agree. If you're happy with it then that's all that matters."? Can that be stickied or something?

Do you guys only use the 7th button setup for neo geo games or do you use it for any other mame game like MK3 (run button)?

I stand by my decision to go with 7 buttons and still believe that was the right choice for me. However, my circumstances are different from yours. I support more than just MAME games so in addition to giving a proper Neo Geo layout, it's useful for newer titles where the extra button really helps. That said, being perfectly honest, there are some drawbacks. The button layout is not uniform. A lot of my guests treat it as a thumb button even though I've configured it in such a way that it's really not intended to be used that way. It clutters the control panel. It's not the six-button Street Fighter layout so many of my friends are used to. There's always going to be explaining your control setup to guests but having a button that is only sometimes used makes it even more difficult. Making it even more confusing is I currently have the seventh button mirroring the first button in MAME so guests will often hit that button first and then just assume the second button is the one next to it on the bottom row. I do have ring LEDs setup so that I can contextually highlight the active buttons but until I get artwork on my control panel I'm not wiring the LEDs up. In your case of only supporting MAME games I would say maybe it's best to start on a test panel with only six buttons and see if you really need that seventh button. Maybe add it after playing on six for awhile and see if it's really getting you that much added benefit.

As for the trackball, I do kind of regret adding one to my cab. They're cool and all but honestly, it hardly gets used. Also, I don't know if it was just the one I got but the ball doesn't seem seated properly. If I push on it the right way I can feel it lift up off the axis and there's a fair amount of drift to it. About the only good thing I can say about it is I had the space for it, it's fun occasionally for Golden Tee, and even without it I would want the same spacing between P1 and P2 because some of my friends are... lets say... broad shouldered. Your mileage may vary though.

[jeremymtc]

I'm a seventh-button heretic too. I do pretty much use it only for Neo Geo titles, but I play enough of those that it's worthwhile to have, for me. I've done the six-button mapping too, but do find it awkward to use with the stacked A/D or D/A setup - using the real cabinets so much in my younger years has irrevocably conditioned me to the four in a row setup.

For guests, it's always been pretty easy: "Neo Geo uses bottom row. Capcom and everything else uses the standard six. Have fun."

[rackoon]

I got two rows of three and slap the fourth button with my thumb and I'm a beast at neo-geo games. Long live Sam Show 5 special