health insurance question (FL)

[SNAAKE]

my brother is married but his wife is unemployed. we have a company(I am the half owner) and we are under the company's payroll and company is paying for our health insurance too. my question is, who would be paying for his wife's health insurance? is it the government because she's a bum(lol) or he has to pay for her insurance too because he is employeed?

thx!

also does it depend on the state or its...federal?

[jmike]

A bum? I'm guessing you're not her favorite brother-in-law. Lol
Your brother would have to pay for her insurance. He should get a family plan that would cover her as well.
My company doesn't offer a good a health insurance plan as my wife's company so me and the kids are under her plan. She works for a pharmaceutical company.

[SNAAKE]

so anyone married and unemployed can't apply for the "free" health insurance? whatever I had when I was a bum. basically almost everything was covered in new york(I had fidelis care) because I made under 20k/year or whatever.

man...I(WE) are paying so much taxes. now there is another bill.. 

[jmike]

Just wait until they have kids... Uncle Snaake lol

 

[Phreakwars]

Honestly wouldn't buy health care at this point. If the ACA is repealed, you'll see over 20 million lose health care, providers will be able to deny pre-existing conditions and premiums are estimated to rise by 50%. Not good all the way around unless a better plan is formulated.

Florida is one of those states, where even with the ACA, premiums are way too high. I couldn't imagine what's going to happen to Floridians if the protections are removed. I'd say don't worry about your brothers bum wife getting healthcare, worry about yourself being able to get it. This is a very real probability that I hope people who hate the current system are aware of.

I'm in a situation myself, where I get AWESOME coverage from my employer (Polaris Industries), so I have no worries about myself. My issue is with my son, who has Autism. He has asthma and just turned 18 a little over a week ago. Under the ACA I am allowed to keep him on my health insurance till he is 26. If it is repealed, I'll no longer have health care for him to get his expensive life saving medication. As a result of that, I'll be forced to apply for Medicaid for him.. So yeah, get that straight... as a result of repealing that "AWFUL" ACA, I will have to resort to using government assistance where I have NEVER had to do that before. Now who is that gonna cost? Me or the tax payers?

Not that I am advocating the ACA, like I said before, Florida, among several other states, see ridiculous un-affordable premium prices, even with the "so called" affordable care act. Republicans are proposing turning medicare and medicaid into a voucher system... In other words, they wanna hand out vouchers people can use to buy health care... Try telling a child with Autism that after mom and dad have passed away, he'll need to apply for vouchers and buy health insurance in addition to all the other life events that we all take for granted that we need to do. And that he'll have to do it using the 47% reduction in SSI being proposed.. oh and buy food.

So while I do somewhat sympathize with the snarky remarks about "free healthcare", that simply isn't the reality, and I sincerely hope people get exactly what they asked for in regards to tearing apart that system. It might just be the slap in the face wake up call needed to realize... were all in this together.

[ark_ader]

Can she get medicade

[Howard_Casto]

Honestly wouldn't buy health care at this point. If the ACA is repealed, you'll see over 20 million lose health care, providers will be able to deny pre-existing conditions and premiums are estimated to rise by 50%. Not good all the way around unless a better plan is formulated.

Florida is one of those states, where even with the ACA, premiums are way too high. I couldn't imagine what's going to happen to Floridians if the protections are removed. I'd say don't worry about your brothers bum wife getting healthcare, worry about yourself being able to get it. This is a very real probability that I hope people who hate the current system are aware of.

I'm in a situation myself, where I get AWESOME coverage from my employer (Polaris Industries), so I have no worries about myself. My issue is with my son, who has Autism. He has asthma and just turned 18 a little over a week ago. Under the ACA I am allowed to keep him on my health insurance till he is 26. If it is repealed, I'll no longer have health care for him to get his expensive life saving medication. As a result of that, I'll be forced to apply for Medicaid for him.. So yeah, get that straight... as a result of repealing that "AWFUL" ACA, I will have to resort to using government assistance where I have NEVER had to do that before. Now who is that gonna cost? Me or the tax payers?

Not that I am advocating the ACA, like I said before, Florida, among several other states, see ridiculous un-affordable premium prices, even with the "so called" affordable care act. Republicans are proposing turning medicare and medicaid into a voucher system... In other words, they wanna hand out vouchers people can use to buy health care... Try telling a child with Autism that after mom and dad have passed away, he'll need to apply for vouchers and buy health insurance in addition to all the other life events that we all take for granted that we need to do. And that he'll have to do it using the 47% reduction in SSI being proposed.. oh and buy food.

So while I do somewhat sympathize with the snarky remarks about "free healthcare", that simply isn't the reality, and I sincerely hope people get exactly what they asked for in regards to tearing apart that system. It might just be the slap in the face wake up call needed to realize... were all in this together.

The ACA was a huge compromise and is actually based on Mitt Romney's health care plan... Obama's original plan was basically universal health care.  The ACA was a "get your foot in the door" bill... it was meant to be improved as time went on.  Note that I said improved NOT replaced.  It is fool hardy and ill advised to repeal and then replace a plan that covers 20 million citizens, most of which don't have any alternative.  Republicans aren't that stupid, so to be blunt, they are flat out lying.  When they say "repeal and replace" what they mean is repeal and then drag their heels on replacing it for 4 years so that it is someone else's problem.  Republican politicians care about money first and money last, so any program, no matter how needed, that requires money they are against.  It's why in this modern political stage they deny facts, because if the facts were to be agreed upon, any rational person would vote the way democrats do.... but again, money is more important to them than absolutely anything else. 

Anyway.... through the ACA (as long as it lasts anyway) she can apply for health care, but her husband's income is going to be taken into account.  He is the head of household, so when you put in the data, you basically put in his income, assets, ect.  It might just be cheaper to extened his healthcare to cover her.

Medicaid is also an option, but it varies from state to state.   

[SNAAKE]

not getting health insurance is an option now? thought that whole obama care business is carried over and its still illegal to have no health insurance?

Ive been googling but there is so much information..not even sure what is accurate. was hoping to speak to the adp rep about it. monday I guess..

[SNAAKE]

Can she get medicade

you mean medicaid?

I am not entirely sure. so far I understand that you can get medicaid if your household makes like 20k or less yearly. so my brother has to pay for her insurance. maybe there is a discounted plan or something. right now its pretty high..we are paying 1055/month for 2 employees(brother and I)

[Phreakwars]

not getting health insurance is an option now? thought that whole obama care business is carried over and its still illegal to have no health insurance?

Ive been googling but there is so much information..not even sure what is accurate. was hoping to speak to the adp rep about it. monday I guess..

No, you don't HAVE TO get insurance. You'll of course, be subject to a fine.   How much that will be, so that you don't catch some hear-say BS, is 2.5% of your annual income. So say you make $50k a year, your looking at $1250. If you only make $25k a year, your talking $625. But then only the part of your household income that’s above the yearly tax filing threshold ($10,300 for individuals, $20,600 for couples filing jointly) is counted.

Alot of people simply do not understand how this all works, and yes, it can be quite difficult to understand. But, your among friends here, not partisan biased pretentious jerks, so trust that you'll have a more open honest view from people.

One of the things that was discussed, was allowing insurance to be sold across state lines. In theory, this sounds like a good idea.. Someone like me here in Iowa will have a significantly better policy quote if I go onto the healthcare.gov website or try my luck at one of the other providers.

For myself personally, using my actual income of $72k, lowest price for me and my entire family, will run about $400 a month. My ACA credit however, is $311, making my payment about $90 a month. While this SAME figure of a family of 4 with a $72k a year income in Florida, will run a WHOPPING $913.58 a month,  for a decent enough plan with a decent deductible..

So that this makes some sense to you... this is a screen shot from healthcare.gov where I am getting these figures from.



You'll see that it says the premium is $913.58 a month. HOW THE HELL IS THAT AFFORDABLE?? It's not. Your talking about almost 25% of a person's income if they make the same I do. But again, this varies depending on the state you live in. But here's the thing you need to understand... Florida, along with many other states, did NOT expand their medicaid program, and did NOT expand their exchange coverage program.. Iowa did.

So in those regards, you CAN NOT blame Obamacare/ACA, but rather the state legislatures for screwing over Floridians. But then, this was done on purpose and not because any of those ---daisies--- give a rats ass about you personally.

How would you feel about paying what I pay in my state? Pretty good deal right? Imagine this happening in all 50 states. Imagine the PRAISE people would have for the President for actually making health care affordable.

But the sad reality, is HATE and the desire to see him fail, to give him no credit for anything at all (more then likely because he is black), was the cause of Floridians and many other states to get screwed over hard.

I'm sorry, but it's not only a damn shame, it's a ---gosh-darn--- travesty.

They did this on purpose, and who pays for it... YOU DO.

And like Howard_Casto was saying... they ain't stupid. They know damn well if they actually repeal it, that's gonna be political suicide. Sure there are TONS of people such as yourself who the ACA does not help one bit, but there are over 20 million people in other states who do now have health care, many for the first time in their lives. And, it keeps costs down..

Premiums have of course, still risen. There is no reason at all to think that they wouldn't rise. But instead of seeing huge increases of 15-25% annually, you are seeing minor increases now.. Mine went up... ain't gonna lie.. it went up a whopping $2 a month... others... not so lucky.

The thing of it is... you repeal it and give these ---daisies--- in the insurance industry free range, they are gonna screw you over even worse then they do now. They will screw us ALL over.

Republicans know this, Trump, unless he really is a complete and utter moron, probably also knows this.

I just hope they can work past their stupidity and prejudices over the black guy and IMPROVE the system. Not create a crisis to spite him. But then, I don't have much faith that they give 2 shits about the American people.

Good luck finding coverage.

[Phreakwars]

To digress on what I was getting at about selling policy's over state lines... Like I said "IN THEORY" it sounds like a good idea, but in reality, it is a TERRIBLE idea... here's why..

Credit cards.

We probably all have one.. one thing many of them have in common, is they are issued from South Dakota. You might not realize this unless you look real close and read the fine print, but a large percentage of cards are issued from that state.. Why do you think this is?

South Dakota has the most LAX protections when it comes to credit cards. The laws there allow the companies to charge ridiculous interest rates. The rates can be as high as 29.99%. This is almost the same as predatory lending. They used to be able to charge even more then that till a law was passed limiting them. It's a great way to keep someone who is unaware in revolving debt.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe selling insurance policy's across state lines will be any different. What will happen, is you end up with some provider who will sell you health care real cheap, offer a ridiculous deductible that you'll probably never reach, and offer you ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- coverage...

Funny thing about that, is it is my belief, that if policy's were sold across state line's, Florida would be the new South Dakota... I'm sorry, but when it comes to health care, Florida is the worst!!

I could totally see some bastard provider in Florida offering cheap policy's that don't cover ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to all Americans in every state. I actually feel real real bad for people in Florida... nice state to visit, but it is ruled by greed. And as an effect... the people suffer.

[Phreakwars]

Oh, and just one more thing.

You know in that first post of mine where I said you probably SHOULDN'T buy healthcare at this point.. Let me give you some solid advise.. But first, YES, I am a progressive. But I'm not one of those with a stick up ---my bottom--- and blinders on to what the ACA is and has done.

I am not at all for repealing because of the reasons I have mentioned, but I am for improving it. So my suggestion in the mean time is this..

Pay the fine, it's not as bad as you might think. Then invest in an HSA.

One of the things Trump said he wanted to do, and I am gonna tell you he was straight up lying his ass off, is make a law so that everyone can invest in an HSA.

Why was he lying his ass off?

Because you already CAN invest in one, you don't need a ---gosh-darn--- law to let you do it. All you need is GOOGLE.

How much do you put in? As a rule of thumb, go with 1 Dr. Visit's worth a month for starters.

Say a typical Dr's visit runs you $100, then go $100 a month.. $1200

The MAXIMUM you can be fined in the ACA, is $2085, add in $100 a month on the HSA, you have a grand total of $3285 ($695 per adult, $347.50 per child under 18), or $273.75 a month for health care, AT MOST !!

At minimum, your talking $157.91 a month.

This is a good plan if you very seldom ever need a Dr. And since an HSA will carry over, if you only see a doc every couple of years, you'll never have to worry about the bill. Just whip out the HSA card, pay up with it on the spot, be on your merry way.

But keep in mind, this method does not give you catastrophic coverage, and will not maintain you for very long if you need an expensive medication for an extended time. I would only recommend doing this, if you are young (under 40) and healthy.

Otherwise, one is pretty much at the mercy of insurance companies, even if the ACA is repealed.

[ark_ader]

Can she get medicade

you mean medicaid?

No medicade - this is BYOAC after all.   


In all seriousness go to a country that has socialized medicine.  I know it is not ethical to be a medical tourist, but it can be cost effective.

[dkersten]

The max penalty per adult for not having insurance in 2016 is $695.  The max for a family is $2085.

In order to be able to use an HSA, you need a high deductible medical plan.  Usually this kind of insurance is cheaper monthly but has a 100% out of pocket deductible, after which the plan starts covering you.  Max you can contribute per year into an HSA is around $3350 for a single adult, $6750 for a family.  I maxed my HSA deductible ($2100 100% out of pocket before it kicks in for 100% coverage) in the first 2 weeks in both 2015 and 2016, and in 2015 spent around $4500 in out of pocket medical (including dental work, glasses, contacts, and other medical stuff not covered in my regular insurance), so that limit hit me hard.  On the other hand, if I don't use my HSA at all, I can earn interest on it and even use it toward retirement later.  OR, I can use it for all sorts of medical related things, like laser eye surgery.  Considering my Fed tax alone is 25%, and the HSA lowers my taxable income (no SS/Fica, no state taxes), it ends up saving me right around 43% on anything medical.  My goal this year is to get it maxed to $6750 (added my kids this year) but my daughter's insulin pump alone will run nearly $8k, so we will see what happens, lol.

Trump already signed an executive order to end ACA, but it can't really do much by itself.  Dismantling it will take time.  I believe it did come with a regulatory freeze, which will mean no more increases in rates until it is all sorted out.  Every single person I know who was forced into Obamacare had to pay substantially more when it started, and their rates went up by 20-80% in the last year.  If you work for a company that has a health plan, no matter how bad or expensive, under ACA, you HAVE to take that health plan.  You don't qualify for ACA if your employer has a plan available.  And if you are below the poverty line, you can't have it either, you have to use Medicaid, which many states do not let you do unless you are a woman with kids.  There are glaring holes in ACA.  Not saying that some kind of government funded program isn't worthwhile, it just needs to be set up right, have the support of the states, not have holes in it, and doesn't cost more than what people could get before (or put businesses out of business or force them to cut hours).

Regardless of what happens with ACA, I would still pursue health insurance if you don't have it.  One little health issue can cost you tens of thousands of dollars, and if you can't pay it off quick, bankruptcy is your only option these days, and even bankruptcy is not as simple or cheap as it used to be.

Hell yes it is expensive.. Why do you think so many kids still live at home these days, often beyond their 30's..

[pbj]

Tax savings on HSAs are chicken scratch.  I've argued with my HR department over their plugging that benefit.  That money is better served going into a retirement account unless you have predictable and expensive medical care costs.

[Phreakwars]

In order to be able to use an HSA, you need a high deductible medical plan. 

Not true. An HSA requires no insurance what so ever. In fact, many local banks offer them. An HSA is nothing more then a glorified savings account used for only 1 purpose... medical bills. And it is YOUR MONEY. It is the EXACT SAME THING as opening a separate account at the bank and getting a debit card to go with it, tucking it under your mattress, and only whipping it out when you go to the Dr.

The only difference between an HSA and a regular bank account, is an HSA ENSURES you will only spend that money on specifically medical bills by making it a condition of it's usage. Anybody who tells you any different, is either lying, or does not know jack about how an HSA actually works.

[Phreakwars]

Max you can contribute per year into an HSA is around $3350 for a single adult, $6750 for a family. 

Also not true, read the above statement. If your HSA provider places caps on contributions, then you need to either find another HSA provider, or talk to your local bank. What you're probably thinking of, is a FSA or FLEXIBLE SPENDING ACCOUNT which will cap you accordingly and requires a "gold" class insurance plan.

[Phreakwars]

Trump already signed an executive order to end ACA,

Trump signed nothing but a document bloviating about wanting to repeal the ACA. That would be like me signing a document proclaiming I'm the best in the world at Super Pacman.. does it give any proof or documentation of skill or high score?? HELL NO, it would just say I declare myself the greatest. The so called executive order was nothing more then a ploy to give his supporters something to fap over.

Regardless of what happens with ACA, I would still pursue health insurance if you don't have it.

I'd only recommend that if you live in a state that has expanded on the ACA. In states like Florida, Texas, etc. Your gonna get screwed, your gonna pay alot of money, and you aren't gonna get any worthwhile coverage unless you have a catastrophic event.

[yotsuya]

I just wanna chime in that I want to buy Phreakwars a beer sometime.

[pbj]

Nothing stopping you from spending that HSA on whatever you want, you're just supposed to declare it on your taxes if it wasn't healthcare related.  I used mine to pay rent once.

 

[dkersten]

In order to be able to use an HSA, you need a high deductible medical plan. 

Not true. An HSA requires no insurance what so ever. In fact, many local banks offer them. An HSA is nothing more then a glorified savings account used for only 1 purpose... medical bills. And it is YOUR MONEY. It is the EXACT SAME THING as opening a separate account at the bank and getting a debit card to go with it, tucking it under your mattress, and only whipping it out when you go to the Dr.

The only difference between an HSA and a regular bank account, is an HSA ENSURES you will only spend that money on specifically medical bills by making it a condition of it's usage. Anybody who tells you any different, is either lying, or does not know jack about how an HSA actually works.

You must be talking about a regular savings account that is labeled for health expenses.  An HSA is a government monitored program that allows you to take pretax earnings and contribute directly to the account.  PRE TAX, which both reduces your taxable income (resulting in potentially lower tax rates on your income), and income that is not even counted when paying social security tax.  For me the savings is ~43%.  If I pay a $100 medical bill out of my pocket, it cost me nearly $190 in gross income to get that $100.  If I pay it out of my HSA, I save $90.  The ONLY way to do that with alternate plans is either with FLEX, which you lose each year if you don't use it, or by exceeding 7.5% of your adjusted gross income, which is not easy to hit if you make a median wage.

Here is more info on HSA's:
https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/health-savings-account-HSA/
Or perhaps you don't believe the government website, so here are some third party links:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertberger/2016/12/02/14-surprising-facts-about-health-savings-accounts-hsa/#127492624414
http://obamacarefacts.com/health-insurance/health-savings-account-hsa/

[dkersten]

Max you can contribute per year into an HSA is around $3350 for a single adult, $6750 for a family. 

Also not true, read the above statement. If your HSA provider places caps on contributions, then you need to either find another HSA provider, or talk to your local bank. What you're probably thinking of, is a FSA or FLEXIBLE SPENDING ACCOUNT which will cap you accordingly and requires a "gold" class insurance plan.

Flex is for regular insurance, and has to be used by the end of the calendar year or you lose it.

I used Flex for medical and day care (yes, you can use Flex for day care) for about 15 years.  It was tricky using all the money some years, and usually involved a trip to the eye doc in December to get more pairs of glasses, as well as hitting the pharmacy for bandaids, tums, cold medicines, and just about anything else that qualified under Flex. 

After my divorce I moved to the HSA, which I have been on for 6 years now.  HSA is more stringent on what you can buy over the counter, but you can pay for any medical bill from any year at any time, which is nice.  You can also pay out of pocket for medical if you don't have enough in your HSA, then pay yourself back later with HSA.  As PBJ said, you either have to claim it on your taxes and be taxed for it, or you should keep records to prove that at one time you spent that money on medical and are paying yourself back in case you are ever audited.  I have used it for gas, groceries, and other things in the past, but just to pay myself back for regular out of pocket medical costs, I have never used it as regular money and claimed it on my taxes.

[dkersten]

Trump already signed an executive order to end ACA,

Trump signed nothing but a document bloviating about wanting to repeal the ACA. That would be like me signing a document proclaiming I'm the best in the world at Super Pacman.. does it give any proof or documentation of skill or high score?? HELL NO, it would just say I declare myself the greatest. The so called executive order was nothing more then a ploy to give his supporters something to fap over.

I didn't say it held any real potency, just that he signed an executive order.  Nothing much can happen without Congress voting on it.  But the President does have some power, believe it or not.  Here is a quote from Wikipedia regarding Major Policies in relation to Executive Orders:

Major policy initiatives require approval by the legislative branch, but executive orders have significant influence over the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree legislation will be enforced, dealing with emergencies, waging wars, and in general fine-tuning policy choices in the implementation of broad statutes.

To me that reads that Trump's executive order could influence how well the government can enforce the ACA penalties for both businesses and individuals.  Read into it how you want though..

Regardless of what happens with ACA, I would still pursue health insurance if you don't have it.

I'd only recommend that if you live in a state that has expanded on the ACA. In states like Florida, Texas, etc. Your gonna get screwed, your gonna pay alot of money, and you aren't gonna get any worthwhile coverage unless you have a catastrophic event.

So what would you suggest for someone without insurance in those states?  Just go without and hope nothing happens? 

I could never, in good conscience, advise anyone to go without insurance.  I have seen several people go through tremendous financial stress because they were uncovered when something unexpected happened.  To each their own though, it's all a question of whether you are ready to take the risk. 

[pbj]

Cash price is about 20-30% of what hospitals charge the insurance companies.  Doubtless someone will run to wikipedia to argue that, but it's what I've seen when bidding out complicated surgeries.

 

[BadMouth]

I miss having a flex account to pay for expensive prescription transitions motorcycle sunglasses/goggles every year.
I didn't get transition lenses every year.  It's good to have options.
Probably the best company benefit I ever had...

[Locke141]

Snaake, tell your in law to log onto https://www.healthcare.gov/apply-and-enroll/how-to-apply/ and have a look. She can get actual quotes for all planes in the individual market from her state and see what subsidies she will qualify for. The only thing the rest of us can do is speculate on what may or may not apply to her situation.

Every single person I know who was forced into Obamacare had to pay substantially more when it started, and their rates went up by 20-80% in the last year.

Do you live in a state that took Medicaid expansion? In some states insurances company's could have places that covered very little and could kick you off if you stared to caused them to much. Many people had planes that were very cheep but were not worth having at all. The ACA set minimum that many junk insurances could not meet. In stated that expand Medicaid on average rates increased are lower.

At the end of the day Republicans made opposing and politicizing everything that Obama did. We would all be better off if elected Republicans worked in good faith the fix the issues in the ACA rather then trying to destroying in.

And for those of us who get healthcare throw an employer, Republicans may be coming after that next.

For years Republican critiques of the Affordable Care Act have zeroed in on the effect it has had on the individual heath insurance market. But the GOP lawmaker who will likely lead the Department of Health and Human Services has long championed a major overhaul to the much bigger employer-based insurance system in order to push consumers to buy their own plans.

"Effectively, the real value of the exclusion would drop over time until at some point, there would effectively not be a substantial subsidy through that route," Antos said, while pointing to tax subsidies Price's plan offers on the individual market. "At some point there is no question: it doesn't make any sense to stay with employer plans from a financial standpoint."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/tom-price-employer-heath-plans

Yes, if you get your health care plane through your employer it's government-subsidized and Tump's HHS pick and Paul Ryan would like to have everyone take personal responsibility, except for them selfs, who would still get their extremely comprehensive healthcare through their employer, the US federal government.

Other fun reads
http://acasignups.net
https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-florida/index.html

[SNAAKE]

The max penalty per adult for not having insurance in 2016 is $695.  The max for a family is $2085.

thats for the year? lol..I should have just paid the penalty when I was in new york..

thanks for the information @everyone

[Locke141]

The max penalty per adult for not having insurance in 2016 is $695.  The max for a family is $2085.

thats for the year? lol..I should have just paid the penalty when I was in new york..

thanks for the information @everyone

That sound like a monthly quote but it also sounds like the most exspesive option. Silver planes are what most people seem to go with but if she is healthy and doesn't use much healthcare a cheeper bronze plane may be the way to go. Ether way, January 31, 2017: Last day to enroll in or change a 2017 health plan. After this date, you can enroll or change plans only if you qualify for a Special Enrollment Period.

[Phreakwars]

No, that's for the year.

https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for-not-being-covered/

In alot of cases, that fine for the whole year, might be less then the fees for a month on some policies.

If they want to improve it, they should make a law setting a minimum deductible. Something that is within reason instead of some of these plans that give you a worthless $12,000 deductible.

Though, you will find that the plans that usually have that high deductible, are the bronze plans. The only way it MIGHT be worth it, is if you invest in an HSA.

I can maybe see paying a couple hundred a month for a super high deductible plan as long as it's supplemented with an affordable HSA amount.

I have heart problems and diabetes. I make frequent Dr. visits and specialist visits throughout the year so I meet my deductible pretty early. On my plan, once I meet that deductible, my coverage goes to 100% from my insurance. So what I do, is pay into my HSA the amount of my deductible every year. That way when my HSA gets close to running out, my insurance kicks in for the rest of the year.

I think alot of people who sign up for health care, really need more information about what they can do when the only plan they can afford has such a high deductible. It doesn't mean the insurance is worthless, it means they need to understand how to get the most of it without going into the poor house..

As for my statement earlier about not recommending people buy a health care plan at this time. This is ONLY because of the disarray that is now going on in Washington. I'd hate to see people sign up for a plan, then have the ACA dumped, then subsequently get dropped or denied coverage by a company they have been paying premiums to. I also agree, people SHOULD by health care... But then, if you were an investor, would you dare put money in a company that thinks it might go out of business? Think of the ACA as a business, and you can see where I am coming from. And again, it really is a ---gosh-darn--- travesty that the powers that be in Washington, choose to put profit over people.

I sincerely wonder what excuse they are gonna have a ways down the road when they don't have the Muslim, Socialist, Commie, Nazi, Marxist, Kenyan, Un-American, race baiting, traitor, (and not because he's black) guy to blame anymore. You can only cry wolf for so long before people catch on.

[dkersten]

I think alot of people who sign up for health care, really need more information about what they can do when the only plan they can afford has such a high deductible. It doesn't mean the insurance is worthless, it means they need to understand how to get the most of it without going into the poor house..

This.  Learn what you are buying, and understand how to pick a plan that works to your advantage.

But then, if you were an investor, would you dare put money in a company that thinks it might go out of business? Think of the ACA as a business, and you can see where I am coming from.

The ACA is just a govt program to provide guidelines and subsidize American Tax Dollars to pay for insurance under those guidelines.  No matter where you buy your insurance, you are ultimately getting it from an insurance company, and changes in ACA are not going to change that.  I.E. they are not going out of business, even if ACA is completely repealed before anything new replaces it.

One of the biggest issues when ACA started was stricter compliancy (forcing more coverage even when it was not wanted by the customer), which forced a lot of good affordable health plans to be cancelled, and more expensive plans to be put in place.  Whether the changes (or complete dismantling) of ACA will create the same problems, and result in existing plans being dropped, is questionable.  But health insurance is not an investment, it is a service.  You don't get a benefit from paying in over time, you get to use the service while covered, and when no longer covered, you get nothing.  You need coverage now, so you get insurance now.  If policies are going to change, they are going to change.  Either way you will still pay for what you use. 

In other words, this isn't like you are buying a house, and your needs might change next month and force you to sell the new house and lose money just so you can buy a different house.  At the worst, you will lose the time you invested in researching the best plan, and have to do it all over again when the plans change.

[Phreakwars]

Of course YOUR personal needs won't change, but the inevitable greed of the insurance industry will. Pre-existing conditions, dropped policy's, denied coverage. These things can and probably would change. Now tell me what good is paying on insurance for a few years that you have never used, just to be dropped from the policy by greed. That's money you the consumer used for absolutely NOTHING.

[dkersten]

Now tell me what good is paying on insurance for a few years that you have never used, just to be dropped from the policy by greed. That's money you the consumer used for absolutely NOTHING.

It's only good if you end up needing it.  If you do, it makes all the difference in the world.  In my experience, it isn't a question of if you will need it, only when.  Nothing makes you appreciate insurance like seeing a $50k doctor bill with a balance owed of Zero...

I buy life insurance, short term disability insurance, long term disability insurance, car insurance, home insurance, liability insurance, and health insurance.  Why?  Because ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can happen.  I would rather be covered and out a grand or two a month over being in debt the rest of my life.

I felt a LOT different when I was younger and went years without having to use insurance.  I saw insurance companies the way you do, I saw banks as predatory, and big business as evil and greedy.  Life changed my point of view on a lot of things.  The beauty of our country is you are entitled to have your own view on things, and are welcome to get into politics and try to change them. 

When it comes down to it, there are three scenarios over my lifetime regarding insurance:
1) I end up going through life and never needing it.
2) I end up spending about the same on insurance as I got back.
3) I end up getting more back than I ever paid in.

And my view on each:
1) I went through life with the peace of mind that if tragedy struck, I was covered.  And I contributed (voluntarily) to those who did need it.

2) I got to take erratic and unscheduled problems and spread the cost of them over my entire life.  And I still got to sleep better knowing I was covered.

3) I made a smart choice buying insurance and it served me well.

Not much downside from my perspective, but YMMV.  I might see it different if I were young, healthy, and forced to pay a fine if I didn't contribute to the pool that other people are using and I wasn't.  Funny, when you apply ACA to health insurance it sure starts to look like a tax...   

[Phreakwars]

You are OBVIOUSLY not understanding what I am getting at here. I also invest in life insurance, short term disability insurance, long term disability insurance, car insurance, home insurance (2 houses), liability insurance, and health insurance. Why... BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT. Obviously YOU can too. Now just because WE are able to do so, does not mean other's are so fortunate.

When you live paycheck to paycheck and every last bit counts, giving up, say $50 a week, can have a HUGE impact on those who are struggling. If you give up this money, then are faced with a reality, that the company that you have been paying all this time, will not cover you, or will deny you a claim, or even worse... drop you.. That money that you have contributed after all that time, becomes a loss.

Example: You pay $100 a month for 5 years... you NEVER needed a Dr. in that time. Then one day, you get sick, you pee all the time.. you go to the Dr. and discover you now have Diabetes. You submit the claim.. the insurance company drops you. Let's do that math.. $1200 for the year x 5 years = $6000 that you got NOTHING out of. In other words, that's $6000 you paid for someone to tell you the just ain't gonna help you. This ain't right, yet it is the REALITY that many people faced before the ACA. The problem now, is the uncertainty of what is to become of those protections with the looming threat of repeal. Does it REALLY make sense to roll the dice and take your chances that "well, things will come out OK"?

HELL NO.

[dkersten]

First off, if I pay $200 per month for 5 years for health insurance and never get sick, I lost the money anyway.  Insurance only pays off if bad stuff happens. 

Second, I understand very well what you are trying to say.  I lived paycheck to paycheck for over 10 years, and when I didn't have insurance and something happened, it hurt.  I don't have insurance because I can afford it, I have it because I can't afford to not have it.   I am thankful that I never had anything major happen when I was uninsured, or even when I was covered but couldn't afford the deductibles.  My closest friend spent a year in a hospital and is a paraplegic.  The first bill was $700k.  That was 20 years ago, and he is still paying it off.

Third, your pre-existing condition example is not very realistic.  If you have insurance and it was never diagnosed, they can't drop you, and never could.  If so they were doing it illegally.  You can't tell me that the companies that broke the law before ACA aren't still doing it, so that argument is invalid.  You also can't assume that the moment ACA goes away, that it is a given that insurance companies are going to start illegally dropping people who get diagnosed with expensive conditions.  You also can't assume that whatever replaces ACA will not include consideration for pre-existing conditions.   

Instead, look at a more realistic scenario, like you break your leg badly.  Surgery, visits, rehab, etc, and you now have a bill for $15,000.  If you can't afford that $50 per week, how in the hell are you going to afford the $15k?? And that doesn't even account for how you are supporting yourself for the 12 weeks you are incapacitated.  This is why I can't afford not to have insurance.

For the record, my daughter was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes BEFORE ACA kicked in.  Nothing changed on my insurance.  They didn't exclude it, they didn't drop her, and the coverage saved me tens of thousands of dollars.  Do you know what insulin costs when you have no insurance?  About $800 for 2 weeks supply.  That isn't including test strips, glucose meters, insulin pumps, needles, glucogon kits, or any of the other wonderful expenses associated with diabetes. 

I agree 100% that there is a range of incomes where insurance is a big problem.  And if you can't find a job with coverage, or are self employed, insurance is ridiculously high.  But name one thing that is easy in life when you make less than the median income, don't have a spouse who works (or are trying to do a stay at home mom thing).  You find a way, and you live within your means.  I did it for a long time.  I am fortunate enough to be in a better financial position now, and fortunate enough to not have been sick or injured when I wasn't in such a good position.  If I found myself back in that position, I would do whatever it takes to have insurance.  Like I said though, to each their own.

[Locke141]

Sorry for the double post. Was trying to fix my gramer and spelling. I'll leave the below mess to I can get to a computer.

[Locke141]

What state were you living in at the time and do you get your insurances throw your employer?

 Before the ACA how aggressively helth insrsance company's dumped people after a diegnoses be pended on what state you lived in and wether you got your plane throw your employer. That's because regulaters and the laws of each state made dumping people more or less posable. "Rescissions", the tearm for the people from plans who became to exspeseve after the fact, was a whole industry. Go read that article from before the ACA and think about what you would have done if some Lawyer who works for your insurance company Looked at some actuarial table and decided it would be cheaper to cut your daughter chances a lawsuit then to cover here.

The others factor is if you are like the 60% of Amiricans that get your coverege throw an employer, how buy the way get substadies to do so, then Thing cutting your daughter was simply not an option, because government subsidize employer-based insurance has always had pre-existing condition exemptions bands.

That's kind of the problem with just saying rate went up. There have always been going up. They went up to IN Some places because they can no longer save money by cutting people Who get sick after the fact.. In some cases rates went up because insurance companies tried to get in load to capture more customers and lose money for the first two years. In some places rates went up because Aetna dropped out of markets simply try to force government regulators to allow the merger, there are internal Aetna emails that acknowledge this fact. Also use it was a complicated more complicated laws and David fixes the time the problem is that the Republican Party the United States has completely abandoned any type of rational opposition and now simpaly wants to ecumulate power.