Guide: custom resolutions through EDID with plain video driver

[pakoman]

Hi there,

I made a quick tuto about adding custom resolutions without the need of installing any modified drivers. It's supposed to work even with non ATI cards.

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1216#p1216


PD is Vmmaker able to install emulated EDID with non ATI cards?


EDIT: What is this about? Just to clarify a bit:

An emulated EDID can trick the system to think a fake monitor is connected to the graphics card. We can add to that EDID the supported custom resolutions to that fake monitor, and they will be available for that screen.

FOR ATI (tested by me):
-Almost any ATI card  (5000 series and higher?) with standard drivers can be used with custom resolutions through EDID.
-Vmmaker/CRU can install an emulated EDID with standard drivers. CRU can add custom resolutions to that EDID.
-Vmmaker can install custom resolutions with standard drivers (10 maximum and above 640x480 but these can be easily removed on standard drivers with ATI Pixelclock patcher. Calamity removed these limitations in CRT Emudriver long time ago).
-Calamity added to CRT Emudriver the ability to create resolutions on the fly without restarting the driver, GroovyMame uses this feature.
-GroovyMame source can be easily modified to work with standard drivers by adding the resolution and reseting the graphics card instead of use the above mentioned feature (that is not present on standard drivers). If the needed resolution is bigger than 640x480 it won't work (unless the driver is patched) and if a graphics card reset is needed to add the custom resolution the screen will do a blink more than CRT Emudriver and the "USB plug and detect hardware" will sound.
-Theoretically, if GroovyMame could add resolutions to the EDID instead of to the driver and reset the card it would work out of the box with standard drivers.


FOR OTHERS:
-Almost any Nvidia card with standard drivers can be used with custom resolutions through EDID. May need a dongle connected for the emulated EDID.
-There is a Nvidia Patcher to remove some driver limitations.
-CRU can install an emulated EDID with standard drivers. CRU can add custom resolutions to that EDID.
-Some intel cards with a special driver can be used with custom resolutions through EDID with CRU.

[buttersoft]

Wow, great stuff. I suspect it won't fly for Nvidia though, I remember Calamity posting up about how it was a feature of 5000 series plus cards, indicating the 4000 series and below didn't have it. The implication being only the 5000 series cards have it, and it's not part of Nvidia.

That said, I'm looking into this right now - http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3569/~/managing-a-display-edid-on-windows

I have a Quadro FX 880m I'm going to try it with, assuming I can convert Sailorsat's soft15kHz dongle EDID.bin into a text file with hex values Unless someone else would like to supply a 15kHz EDID...? The Arcade_15 EDID from VMM might work as well, and I might be able to extract that using phoenix.

(Also, you never mentioned VMM in this post - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152767.msg1600123.html#msg1600123 so do you need VMM to use CRU like this, or not?)

CRU won't seem to work with Nvidia to enable 15kHz modes. At least, not without an EDID dongle or device, or perhaps the workaround listed above.

No criticism intended here, I'm keen to help find more ways to get 15kHz, especially on Nvidia cards!

EDIT: I wonder if 15kHz could be done with some sort of fake monitor driver. Obviously monitors don't really need drivers anymore, but there might be a loophole.

[buttersoft]

Post removed.

I got 480i working on the quadro laptop once, briefly, using the above links (in my post, not pakoman's) following which episode it shat itself and did something, probably to the display info in the registry, that means it won't boot and i have to install windows over again. I've had laptops do that when you try to force the built-in display into modes they can't handle, so the permanently-active EDID file when combined wit the low resolution of the secondary monitor is probably screwing with that. Thankfully it's my test rig, so that's easily done. I'll post up if i get something stable.

[pakoman]

I don't think Vmmaker is mandatory but is very handful to create an emulated EDID at least with ATI. I'm using a TV through VGA-SCART cable and Windows 10, thus not detected by the system, so an emulated EDID solves this (and can also be used to add some custom resolutions).

I believe CRU is also able to create EDIDs.

CRU won't seem to work with Nvidia to enable 15kHz modes. At least, not without an EDID dongle or device, or perhaps the workaround listed above.

No criticism intended here, I'm keen to help find more ways to get 15kHz, especially on Nvidia cards!

EDIT: I wonder if 15kHz could be done with some sort of fake monitor driver. Obviously monitors don't really need drivers anymore, but there might be a loophole.

No problem, I'm happy to read the testing results on other configurations

I think that as far as you create the proper EDID the way of doing it doesn't matter. For ATI is very straight forward with Vmmaker, for Intel I think a kind of patch is needed and I read somewhere about a dongle also (for NVIDIA maybe?).

This is useful information:  https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU

[/Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) allows custom resolutions to be defined for both AMD/ATI and NVIDIA GPUs by creating EDID overrides directly in the registry without dealing with .inf files.

 Download: cru-1.3.zip

 If you find this software useful, donations are welcome.

Requirements: •Windows Vista or later (Windows XP does not support EDID overrides)
•AMD/ATI or NVIDIA GPU (Intel GPUs and laptops with switchable graphics are partially supported with this test driver: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downloa...est-Driver)

Before doing anything, familiarize yourself with getting into safe mode just in case you can't see the screen. If you don't have a recovery drive, press and hold the power button to shut off the computer while Windows is booting. Doing this twice should give you recovery options that you can use to get into safe mode: http://www.asus.com/US/support/FAQ/1013074

Getting started:
1.Run CRU.exe.
2.Choose a monitor from the drop-down list.◦"(active)" means the monitor is connected and recognized by the graphics driver.
◦"*" means changes were made and an override was saved in the registry.
◦Upgrade notes:◾"

• " means the override has no extension blocks. CRU now adds a blank extension block to work around NVIDIA driver issues. Making any change will fix this.

◾"[!]" means the override has disabled extension blocks. CRU no longer supports disabled extension blocks. Making any change will remove them.



3.Edit the configuration as desired. Please read the sections below for more information.
4.Repeat steps 2-3 for other monitors if required.◦The "Copy" and "Paste" buttons at the top can be used to copy the resolutions, extension blocks, and range limits if included. It will not copy the name or serial number, but it will copy the inclusion of these items using the monitor's own information. Import follows the same logic unless "Import complete EDID" is selected.


5.Click "OK" to save the changes.
6.Run restart.exe to restart the graphics driver.◦If the display does not return after 15 seconds, press F8 for recovery mode. This will temporarily unload all the EDID overrides without deleting them. Restart the driver again to reload any changes.


7.Set the resolution in the Windows display settings. To set the refresh rate:◦Windows 10: right-click on the desktop > Display settings > Advanced display settings > Display adapter properties > Monitor tab
◦Windows Vista/7/8/8.1: right-click on the desktop > Screen resolution > Advanced settings > Monitor tab


To reset a display back to the default configuration, use the "Delete" button at the top to delete the override from the registry and reboot. To reset all displays, run reset-all.exe and reboot. This can be done in safe mode if necessary.

Detailed resolutions: •Detailed resolutions are the preferred way to add custom resolutions. More detailed resolutions can be added using extension blocks.
•The first detailed resolution is considered the preferred or native resolution. All other resolutions can be removed if they are not needed. The graphics driver will automatically add some common lower resolutions as scaled resolutions.

There is a utility here to patch pixel clock limitations in ATI drivers to allow higher resolutions  (not lower! )  but maybe it can be useful to remove some of the driver limitations.

https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-AMD-ATI-Pixel-Clock-Patcher

[Calamity]

I didn't know where to answer, so here it is: http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1217#p1217

[pakoman]

Incredible news!! Just patched stock drivers to work with Vmmaker!!   

This means: with stock drivers Vmmaker is able to add more than 10 custom LOW RES modelines and GM on the fly generated timings are accepted by the driver 

[buttersoft]

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1217#p1217

Ah, so the EDID emulation is lower level. The EDID overrides I'm attempting feel far from perfect. They're obviously just floating on the surface. And i suspect the Quadro system-topology method might not be low-level enough. The only time I was able to set a 15kHz mode for the Quadro working was when using CRU and the Nvidia override concurrently. Using either method by itself doesn't seem to do much. I think that some check in the driver is still just rejecting anything under ~29kHz, i.e. in the NVCP you can click the options for interlaced and timings adjustments, but the scan rate box stays at 31kHz. You can also add a perfect 15kHz 480i mode in CRU, and it just comes up with the side-by-side double image when you use it, so 480p. Windows will even tell you the mode is running at 30Hz, but it clearly isn't.  Added to which I'm using a laptop, which just complicates things. Extensive testing will be required.

Calamity, could I ask for copies of the EDID's crt_emudriver uses for emulation? Specifically the Generic_15 and Arcade_15 ones? Bin or Hex files should be fine, but I should be able to work with whatever you have. I'd love to give them a go, and compare them with stuff I might create. I also have a $2 programmer on order, and some 24C02 2kbit eeproms for dongle testing - I hope. (I hear you can use those for EDID chips rather than the 24LC22A's, which are a pain to program.)

Can CRU export those created EDID's, Pakoman?

After this it's going to be time to investigate registry hacks. 

Incredible news!! Just patched stock drivers to work with Vmmaker!!   

This means: with stock drivers Vmmaker is able to add more than 10 custom LOW RES modelines and GM on the fly generated timings are accepted by the driver 

That is good news


EDIT: Pakoman, a dongle is required for Nvidia, as Sailorsat discovered with Soft15kHz. I'm not sure CRU can get around this. Windows handles the overrides, but the Card sits below that. You need to feed the card the right EDID info. I'd love to find a way to do that without a dongle.

So, is VMM and EDID emulation required for CRU to work with low resolution modes on ATI?

[buttersoft]

I got things working for the Quadro graphics card, and thought I'd make a separate post for clarity.

I figured out that as soon as the EDID is inserted via the NVidia driver, windows duplicates the desktop, and since the EDID only contains 15kHz modes, and the laptop's primary display can't get anywhere near that = BSOD. The answer is either to force detection of the VGa output beforehand, which might be trouble when you later plug or unplug stuff, or modify the EDID to include a mode the primary LCD can handle, say, 1024x768. I did the latter, which was reported as having a bad checksum when i went to actually use it, but it worked.

However, after this adding resolutions through the NVidia drivers just crashes the system, if it doesn't BSOD. The NVCP tries to test the resolutions before it will let you install them, and I have to hard reset each time i try to install something with a 15kHz rate. CRU, however, can add resolutions quite handily. I then use the restart64.exe included with CRU, and blammo, 480i. I've also tested 640x240p and 1280x240p. Rough timings are available from the picture in pakoman's guide.

I believe the system destroyed windows before by adding resolutions the primary LCD of the laptop couldn't handle that also had a dotclock below what the graphics card could deliver, but that's a guess at this stage. In other words, steer clear of soft15kHz for this one unless you want to reinstall windows

So this might be a method for constructing dongles for new NVidia cards. At least, if it's a dot clock minimum that's the problem? (Is there a problem? Anyone using a 15kHz dongle on a newer card?)

[pakoman]

Good news for Nvidia users indeed

It may be a good idea to create a shared online spreadsheet with different chipsets, drivers and options available for each one...

I attached the edid.bin from my CRT Emudriver folder and the GENERIC_15 exported from CRU.

If minimum Dot Clock is a problem you always can create resolutions like 2560x224 to user higher Dot Clocks.

[Calamity]

Calamity, could I ask for copies of the EDID's crt_emudriver uses for emulation? Specifically the Generic_15 and Arcade_15 ones?

VMMaker creates an edid.bin file on run time, based on the current monitor preset, you can grab it from there. If you have troubles with it I can pass you the files.

[Calamity]

Incredible news!! Just patched stock drivers to work with Vmmaker!!   

This means: with stock drivers Vmmaker is able to add more than 10 custom LOW RES modelines and GM on the fly generated timings are accepted by the driver 

Just to avoid confusion: GM still can't apply on the fly generated timings on stock drivers Currently that's only possible with a specific modified version of GM that uses the ADL api to update the mode list (basically it's a sort of soft-reset so the mode table is rebuilt). On my system, this had some drawbacks, like hearing the typical plug/unplug system sound upon mode list rebuild. Besides I'm wondering if you notice some slowdown once you start adding modes. In my experience, the time it takes torebuild the mode table seems to grow exponentially the more modes you add. Maybe this is not so bad on newer hardware. CRT Emudriver has an additional patch that allows GM to add new video timings and use them immediately without rebuilding the mode list. Hopefully we can get rid of this patch in the future too, once short modelist become the norm.

[pakoman]

Incredible news!! Just patched stock drivers to work with Vmmaker!!   

This means: with stock drivers Vmmaker is able to add more than 10 custom LOW RES modelines and GM on the fly generated timings are accepted by the driver 

Just to avoid confusion: GM still can't apply on the fly generated timings on stock drivers Currently that's only possible with a specific modified version of GM that uses the ADL api to update the mode list (basically it's a sort of soft-reset so the mode table is rebuilt). On my system, this had some drawbacks, like hearing the typical plug/unplug system sound upon mode list rebuild. Besides I'm wondering if you notice some slowdown once you start adding modes. In my experience, the time it takes torebuild the mode table seems to grow exponentially the more modes you add. Maybe this is not so bad on newer hardware. CRT Emudriver has an additional patch that allows GM to add new video timings and use them immediately without rebuilding the mode list. Hopefully we can get rid of this patch in the future too, once short modelist become the norm.

Well, to be honest I was so excited when I patched the driver and worked that I rushed to share the news without intensive testing

Yes, the 'usb sound' is there when GM starts and closes and it only works with that specific modified GM. About GM/Switchres speed when generating modes on the fly compared to CRT Emudriver I didn't test properly and I only tried 4 or 5 games, but it wasn't slow at all.

However, the Low res and number of modes limitation is removed and Vmmaker can add resolutions without trouble.

[buttersoft]

Righto, I have those EDID's now, thanks guys I'll keep running with what I'm doing and report back.

[buttersoft]

So the Arcade15 EDID works ok with a dongle - as expected. The Quadro laptop recognises and names the monitor, though it does go into duplicate-display mode again. Only this time the primary finds the 480i mode but runs at 480p, so windows 7 doesn't bluescreen. I only tried soft15kHz before though, so it might have been the 800x600@50Hz interlaced mode that was the problem.

Once you tell the desktop to extend, things are fine. The laptop's primary screen goes back to where it should be, and the VGA-out is delivering 480i. (There were some colour issues, but I think that was my cable. I'll check.) There are no other modes available to that EDID, so none appear. Presumably you can add modes with something like CRU. The drivers would still have a lower pixel clock limit though.

I next bit the bullet and tried it on my desktop 980ti, and it didn't work. The Arcade15 monitor the EDID describes shows up, but it's not possible to get the desktop to extend or clone to it, i.e. any picture, using either the windows display utility, or the NVCP. I'm wondering if the lower pixel clock limit has increased on later cards/drivers, so I'll try editing the EDID to use a 2560x240 mode or something. Unless it's there's a horizontal rate check in the driver now, that operates despite the external EDID.

Does anyone know about the lower pixel clock limits of Nvidia cards? If these are driver-imposed, will ToastyX's Nvidia pixel clock patcher work with the lower limit as well as the higher? I presume not.

[pakoman]

So the Arcade15 EDID works ok with a dongle - as expected. The Quadro laptop recognises and names the monitor, though it does go into duplicate-display mode again. Only this time the primary finds the 480i mode but runs at 480p, so windows 7 doesn't bluescreen. I only tried soft15kHz before though, so it might have been the 800x600@50Hz interlaced mode that was the problem.

Once you tell the desktop to extend, things are fine. The laptop's primary screen goes back to where it should be, and the VGA-out is delivering 480i. (There were some colour issues, but I think that was my cable. I'll check.) There are no other modes available to that EDID, so none appear. Presumably you can add modes with something like CRU. The drivers would still have a lower pixel clock limit though.

I next bit the bullet and tried it on my desktop 980ti, and it didn't work. The Arcade15 monitor the EDID describes shows up, but it's not possible to get the desktop to extend or clone to it, i.e. any picture, using either the windows display utility, or the NVCP. I'm wondering if the lower pixel clock limit has increased on later cards/drivers, so I'll try editing the EDID to use a 2560x240 mode or something. Unless it's there's a horizontal rate check in the driver now, that operates despite the external EDID.

Does anyone know about the lower pixel clock limits of Nvidia cards? If these are driver-imposed, will ToastyX's Nvidia pixel clock patcher work with the lower limit as well as the higher? I presume not.

That's nice progress!

In my own experience resolutions like 2560x240 do the trick and avoid pixel clock issues, I don't have a Nvidia card myself, but I used the equivalent ATI clock patcher and it actually patches far more limitations than just the higher pixel clock limit! It removes the maximum of 10 custom res, allows resolutions below 640x480 and a few more things. So it may be worth trying the Nvidia equivalent

[buttersoft]

Quick update: the 2560x240p EDID I created works fine with the quadro card, when programmed to a dongle, but does not work at all for the GTX 980ti. So it's not the pixel clock, it must be a scanrate check in the NVidia drivers. Next step is to test out what ToastyX's NVidia pixel clock patcher will do - I hope not kill my windows install.

[pakoman]

The Ati one is quite simple and safe to use. And even allows to restore the original drivers. I was also a bit scared at first but now a happy patched drivers user 

[buttersoft]

Update in general: I killed another windows install on the laptop, and on reinstalling ran into a snag - I think you need to change resolutions before anything will work. As in, you set an EDID, then clear the modes and add a single custom 15kHz resolution, and windows will tell you it's using only that resolution, but won't actually go below 480p. If you create two custom 15kHz resolutions, say 480i and 240p, you can switch between them and they work fine. This might mean a dongle won't work without further modeline tweaking as described.

[pakoman]

Update in general: I killed another windows install on the laptop, and on reinstalling ran into a snag - I think you need to change resolutions before anything will work. As in, you set an EDID, then clear the modes and add a single custom 15kHz resolution, and windows will tell you it's using only that resolution, but won't actually go below 480p. If you create two custom 15kHz resolutions, say 480i and 240p, you can switch between them and they work fine. This might mean a dongle won't work without further modeline tweaking as described.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I've never had such problems, maybe it's just I'm using Ati... Does patching the driver solve the below 480p issue?

All the changes I did always applied to the fake emulated monitor through EDID and VGA output. Never to the main laptop LCD. Actually in my setup, every screen seems to use a different proprietary set of resolutions so if I mess with the VGA at 15 kHz it doesn't affect at all the LCD screen and resolutions.

Let's hope Calamity will add some day custom resolution through EDID in Vmmaker to make life easier for us mortals

[Calamity]

Let's hope Calamity will add some day custom resolution through EDID in Vmmaker to make life easier for us mortals

That's high in the todo-list. I intend to have an edid.ini file with a list of resolutions.

[pakoman]

That's great, thanks.

Will you add Nvidia support also or it would be a mess?

[buttersoft]

That's great, thanks.

Will you add Nvidia support also or it would be a mess?

An EDID is universal, but resolutions below 31kHz won't work without a hacked driver. Or was that what you meant?

And no, I haven't yet got around to trying the NVidia pixel clock patcher to try and get around the scan rate limit. Changing the monitor over in one of my cabs is taking up all my free time.

[u-man]

First of all, i apologize if i didnt understand everything in this thread here and i hope that i can contribute something, but i would like to share my experiences.

I did get a Nvidia card working in a standard PC setup (no laptop) with Soft15khz and Powerstrip and i didnt need a dongle. It was a old 7800 GS AGP card and this was my first steps into a 15khz arcade-setup. The moment i read about GroovyMAME, i changed my setup to ATI .

I also tried to get my laptop running. Its a hybrid Intel-Nvidia setup with Optimus technology, which is bad for GM because the Intel-driver manage the output resolution. Trying to find a solution, i found this tool: http://www.clevertec.co.uk/productsfree.htm#dtdcalc

With that tool, i could manage to "inject" only super-resolutions into the Intel-driver (and only 6, i used 5 because i needed one native resolution for my laptop screen) with the help from SailorSat. It worked quite well for MAME, but not for the desktop or other apps like VLC and similar, because they didnt handle well the super-resolutions.

Here is a example how the destop screen looks in Linux, just to clarify what i am talking about: http://www.arcadezentrum.com/forum/index.php?attachment/26934-intel-1200x300-jpg/

I dont know why, but i reverted everything and since then i didnt try any further to get 15khz working out of my laptop (sadly ).

But this thread and this CRU tool sounds somehow promising and i think i will try it again. My biggest hope is, that guys like pakoman or Calamity, will maybe take a look into my provided link, as DTD-Calculator was at least a way to get Intel-Nvidia setups with Optimus technology (or onboard Intel) working with 15khz CRTs. It would be just great, to get those laptops running with GM, as we would have mobile arcade setups .

Modelines used with DTD-Calculator:

modeline '2560x224-15khz-2560x224-15,72kHz-60,0Hz' 48,418 2560 2632 2864 3080 224 238 246 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline '2560x240-15khz-2560x240-15,72kHz-60,0Hz' 48,418 2560 2632 2864 3080 240 246 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline '2560x256-15khz-2560x256-15,72kHz-60,0Hz' 48,418 2560 2632 2864 3080 256 254 262 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline '2560x288-15khz-2560x288-15,72kHz-50,064Hz' 48,418 2560 2632 2864 3080 288 296 305 314 -hsync -vsync
modeline '2560x300-15khz-2560x300-15,72kHz-50,064Hz' 48,418 2560 2632 2864 3080 300 302 311 314 -hsync -vsync

One important thing is, to NOT use the clone mode, because it expects that both screens can handle the resolutions. You need to use the extended desktop mode to get everything working right.
Hope that helps a little, since i last tried this stuff 4 years ago.

[pakoman]

That's great, thanks.

Will you add Nvidia support also or it would be a mess?

An EDID is universal, but resolutions below 31kHz won't work without a hacked driver. Or was that what you meant?

And no, I haven't yet got around to trying the NVidia pixel clock patcher to try and get around the scan rate limit. Changing the monitor over in one of my cabs is taking up all my free time.

With ATI cards you can add any resolution to the EDID without patching the driver. But to add resolutions below 640x480p to the driver (not to the EDID) you need to patch the 640x480 limitation (the EDID hasn't this limitation). And Vmmaker will add resolutions to plain ATI driver (no need to use CRT Emudriver for this one).

If Nvidia drivers don't allow 15Khz resolutions through EDID then that's behaviour is different than ATI's. Maybe patching the driver it's a solution.



u-man that DTD-Calculator seems like a good tool to calculate and center modelines and then copy the values to the EDID. IIRC CRU also works with intel with some special drivers.

7) There are other ways you can use the DTD Calculator-- a pure way of calculating a Modeline from the EDID (or vice versa). It's an excellent tool and I urge anyone who comes up with a useful application for it aside from what I've outlined here to post your experiences.

Yes, it's very important not to clone screens as they use totally different resolutions and will cause problems for sure!

This CRU and EDID thing is about adding the custom resolutions to the emulated EDID. Adding them to the driver / hacking the registry is a different approach.


I'll edit the first post to clarify things a bit.