Speechless.

[lilshawn]

yikes 

screwing handles onto this thread to hold onto for when this thread gets whisked away to post hell.

[Titchgamer]

Ya know this almost makes me want to dig out my 64 and invite some mates over for a experiment LOL

But I doubt anyone ever holds a 64 controller sideways, It would be very awkward!!

eh if you have anything with 4 controllers, just use that.
This is an experiment I'd like to see.

I'd also like to see identical 4 player cabinets put on location somewhere and see if people react differently to the one with angled sticks vs straight ones.  I guess you would go by how long they bothered playing before losing interest.

I'd like to see it, but can't say I have the time, money, or motivation to actually conduct it.

Must admit that would interest me.

God when Did I become this sad? Lol

[yotsuya]

Must admit that would interest me.

God when Did I become this sad? Lol

When did you join this site?

[pbj]

Obligatory 4 people will never use your cabinet ever joke.

[Titchgamer]

Must admit that would interest me.

God when Did I become this sad? Lol

When did you join this site?

May.

Does that mean.... I have turned!?

[Le Chuck]

Guy throws a party and a few friends play some drunken double dribble.  Announce that this is the coolest contraption in the world.  Guy swells with pride.  Made his friends happy for 3.4 minutes.  Friends made him happy for a few days.  Building it made him happy for weeks.  Hell, he probably was chuffed as ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- when he got the CP together. 

Perhaps he has two kids close in age who are just coming into their own on gaming.  Think they care what it looks like?  It plays a shitload of games that are unfamiliar to them.  Sure, they quarter feed and get bored after a minute on a game but there are literally hundreds of decent games on it and those minutes add up into hours and memories. 

Who gives a flying ---fudgesicle--- if its "ugly" a lot of happiness can be generated by an "ugly" cab.  I built a pedestal shaped like a tree with a face holding a stone tablet.  It is weird and doesn't go with any decor.  It's made of foam and bondo.  The guy I built it for still texts me drunk when he's playing with his brother in law or the kid across the street to tell me how tits it is.  I wouldn't have that thing in my house for all the tea in china. 

Whilst I still stand by my parable of Cyrano's nose, I will add that sometimes a dick will do just fine. 

[Le Chuck]

sometimes a dick will do just fine.

Can that be my new quote?

[Malenko]

Talking in circles, the new BYOAC.

Non-Member less than half asses a cab and tries to sell it for $3,000 and gets defended. Member of BYOAC tells an OP something to make his cab more playable, gets told to STFU and let the guy build his project the way he wants.

And yet we wonder why the site is dying. The RAID not getting fixed for over a month was the slashing of the wrists, the safe space whining is just the bleeding out.

[Le Chuck]

Non-Member less than half asses a cab and tries to sell it for $3,000 and gets defended.

Does anybody buy those $3000 monstrosities?  Am I to feel bad for rube or mad at the shill if both walk away happy?

[Malenko]

Does anybody buy those $3000 monstrosities?  Am I to feel bad for rube or mad at the shill if both walk away happy?

Is that question existential or rhetorical?
If neither and you are legitimately asking I say both. Shill then builds more garbage in hopes of more rubes. The rube is happy, until they find out they over paid by a country mile or until something stops working due to poor construction.


Now you have a witty rejoinder and we continue our circular conversation.

[leapinlew]

You know Malenko, a voluntary section to roast your own cabs is different than making fun of someone who built a cab and posted it on their own website.

You saying

I get yelled at anytime I don't suck the OP's dick no matter how ---smurfy--- the cab is. Gold stars for everybody!

Might be just a tad over-dramatic you think? 

I'm not saying "gold stars from everyone" just like I know you aren't saying to harass all arcade builder who aren't conforming to the latest and greatest standards. I suppose we disagree on when it's appropriate to offer criticism and how heavy handed the suggestion should be, but life goes on. I don't think BYOAC needs to be the festering hate pool that KLOV is to survive. It's a niche arcade forum built on the nostalgia of mostly middle aged men. It's not going to last forever.

 

[Titchgamer]

You know Malenko, a voluntary section to roast your own cabs is different than making fun of someone who built a cab and posted it on their own website.

You saying

I get yelled at anytime I don't suck the OP's dick no matter how ---smurfy--- the cab is. Gold stars for everybody!

Might be just a tad over-dramatic you think? 

I'm not saying "gold stars from everyone" just like I know you aren't saying to harass all arcade builder who aren't conforming to the latest and greatest standards. I suppose we disagree on when it's appropriate to offer criticism and how heavy handed the suggestion should be, but life goes on. I don't think BYOAC needs to be the festering hate pool that KLOV is to survive. It's a niche arcade forum built on the nostalgia of mostly middle aged men. It's not going to last forever.

 

Less of the middle aged!

Ime as young as the woman I feel!

[Malenko]

I suppose we disagree on when it's appropriate to offer criticism and how heavy handed the suggestion should be, but life goes on.

That's not it at all. No feedback is welcomed at anytime even if asked for. Its why I stay out of the project section other than to update my own or pal around with people I know aren't thin skinned.

[ChadTower]

I feel soiled that the person whose thread input I most agree with is pbj.  Seriously.  This is not cool.   

[leapinlew]

No feedback is welcomed at anytime even if asked for.

lol, is that REALLY what you think? Nobody likes blanket statements. I think you confuse feedback not being accepted or someone defending their opinion as thin skinned. Of course criticism is going to result in some heated discussion, you just got to know going in, the builder may travel down a road that you think is a mistake.

Its why I stay out of the project section other than to update my own or pal around with people I know aren't thin skinned.

If you don't frequent the Project Announcements because you can't criticize their projects - that's a shame. You got some awesome builds and skills. It's BYOAC's loss. Truth is though, I bet you are in there a lot and just said that for dramatic effect.    You redheads really are fireballs aren't you... 

[Malenko]

While this back and forth is really helping me pass the slow work day, just go read some threads where people left feedback, or put on your fire suit and read some angled joystick threads.

If you don't frequent the Project Announcements because you can't criticize their projects - that's a shame. You got some awesome builds and skills. It's BYOAC's loss. Truth is though, I bet you are in there a lot and just said that for dramatic effect.    You redheads really are fireballs aren't you... 

"I dont post because I cant criticize" is not the same thing as "most people cant handle criticism"
I'm always in there reading, rarely ever posting (unless in my thread or a thread of someone I consider cool). I am not much of a builder but I am a competent restorer. Clickie my name and look at my posts, see how much negativity I've spewed (spoiler, almost none) http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=119

[Titchgamer]

Going back to the angle of the controller thing from earlier I just tried a experiment with the Ms getting her to play some playstation and periodically moving her round the room and sitting in different positions.

Shes now slightly freaked out by "watching her and not the game" and now thinks me a little mad after telling her why lol

Anyways results were as I expected pretty much.
She held the controller in the normal position (ie parallel to her) regardless of the angle she was sat at in relation to the TV.

I would of loved to try this with a actual arcade machine but I only have the 2 player lol

Be interested to see if you guys get similar results if you fancy trying it with wife\kids

[leapinlew]

I play my consoles at an angle from the screen and I don't adjust to make sure the controller is lined up parallel to the TV, either In fact, sometime's I'm 90 degrees out of true north.

Back in the X-Box days, me and 3 friends would play Fuzion Frenzy and 2 guys were on the couch directly in front of the TV and 2 were on the love seat with their controllers pointed 45 - 90 degrees out. When the game got fast paced and hectic, the love seat dudes didn't adjust their controllers/hands/bodies to try to point directly at the TV.

At least for controllers and consoles, it's not that disorienting.  :shrug:

[Titchgamer]

Cheers Lew.

I would love to try this on a arcade at 45 degrees as ime sure its one of those "in ya head things"

[yotsuya]

Cheers Lew.

I would love to try this on a arcade at 45 degrees as ime sure its one of those "in ya head things"

FFS...

This weekend, when I went to Castles N' Coasters, I decided to try this out for myself. My natural inclination would be that yes, P3 and P4 should be angled to the screen in order for things to feel right. They have a few 4 player games there, and I checked - all the joysticks from the factory are installed straight up (no angling).

I put some credits in and I used the P3 controls (far left). I started off by playing straight-forward, directly in front of the machine. Obviously, I had no issues. I then, stepped to the side, playing as if I were the third player and someone were occupying the P1 area. Although my body was angled towards the screen, I had NO issues with the joystick. When I wanted to move up on screen, reflexively I pushed the joystick in the up direction relative to the screen, not "up" relative to me. It the same with the sides. I even moved so that I was standing on the side of the cabinet altogether (you should have seen the looks I got), but it made no difference. You just instinctively know where to go.

So there you go, tested out in an arcade on a real machine 5 days ago. You don't need to angle your sticks.

Look at the date....

But build what you dig. Angle the joysticks, invert them, LED them, do what you dig..

[Titchgamer]

Cheers Lew.

I would love to try this on a arcade at 45 degrees as ime sure its one of those "in ya head things"

FFS...

This weekend, when I went to Castles N' Coasters, I decided to try this out for myself. My natural inclination would be that yes, P3 and P4 should be angled to the screen in order for things to feel right. They have a few 4 player games there, and I checked - all the joysticks from the factory are installed straight up (no angling).

I put some credits in and I used the P3 controls (far left). I started off by playing straight-forward, directly in front of the machine. Obviously, I had no issues. I then, stepped to the side, playing as if I were the third player and someone were occupying the P1 area. Although my body was angled towards the screen, I had NO issues with the joystick. When I wanted to move up on screen, reflexively I pushed the joystick in the up direction relative to the screen, not "up" relative to me. It the same with the sides. I even moved so that I was standing on the side of the cabinet altogether (you should have seen the looks I got), but it made no difference. You just instinctively know where to go.

So there you go, tested out in an arcade on a real machine 5 days ago. You don't need to angle your sticks.

Look at the date....

But build what you dig. Angle the joysticks, invert them, LED them, do what you dig..

Yeah but you angle your controller :p

I may try playing pac man or something at 45 degrees on my cab just for shits n giggles.

I would try turtles or something but I think the button mashing would be uncomfortable lol

[yotsuya]

I can't believe in 35+ years of console gaming that some of you have NEVER seen someone move the controller in their hands to try and make something on the screen go a certain way. You don't THINK about doing it, you just do it.

[Titchgamer]

Oh Ive seen people move the controller.

Like bouncing and lifting it when jumping playing mario or something (that always makes me chuckle!)

But I have never seen someone angle a controller to be parallel to the screen.

In my mind I cant see why you would, its unnatural and uncomfortable.

[yotsuya]

Oh Ive seen people move the controller.

Like bouncing and lifting it when jumping playing mario or something (that always makes me chuckle!)

But I have never seen someone angle a controller to be parallel to the screen.

In my mind I cant see why you would, its unnatural and uncomfortable.

So when they are moving the controller, what do you THINK they are doing???

Time to go chill in the ZapCon thread... that one makes me happy...

[Titchgamer]

Oh Ive seen people move the controller.

Like bouncing and lifting it when jumping playing mario or something (that always makes me chuckle!)

But I have never seen someone angle a controller to be parallel to the screen.

In my mind I cant see why you would, its unnatural and uncomfortable.

So when they are moving the controller, what do you THINK they are doing???

Time to go chill in the ZapCon thread... that one makes me happy...

Getting over excited? Trying to jump higher? I have no idea but its damn funny watching them jump up and down trying to jump over a pit lol

Maybe they think its a Wii mote? Maybe thats why the Wii was so successful??
Its taken Nintendo to learn the true meaning of getting in the game!

Nah I dunno but at no point has anyone to my knowledge angled a controller at 45 to match the TV or said "Hey its easier if I hold the controller at a angle"

Like I said my theory is its a in ya head thing, maybe perception based.
Ie you move relative to the character/player whatever vs you move relative to the screen.
I guess it would be like using inverted controls on FPS games or flying a plane in battlefield etc.

I really do think there is more to this than theres made out to be.

[yotsuya]

Oh Ive seen people move the controller.

Like bouncing and lifting it when jumping playing mario or something (that always makes me chuckle!)

But I have never seen someone angle a controller to be parallel to the screen.

In my mind I cant see why you would, its unnatural and uncomfortable.

So when they are moving the controller, what do you THINK they are doing???

Time to go chill in the ZapCon thread... that one makes me happy...

Getting over excited? Trying to jump higher? I have no idea but its damn funny watching them jump up and down trying to jump over a pit lol

Maybe they think its a Wii mote? Maybe thats why the Wii was so successful??
Its taken Nintendo to learn the true meaning of getting in the game!

Nah I dunno but at no point has anyone to my knowledge angled a controller at 45 to match the TV or said "Hey its easier if I hold the controller at a angle"

Like I said my theory is its a in ya head thing, maybe perception based.
Ie you move relative to the character/player whatever vs you move relative to the screen.
I guess it would be like using inverted controls on FPS games or flying a plane in battlefield etc.

I really do think there is more to this than theres made out to be.

Clearly you don't understand what BadMouth or I have brought up. No one sits there and purposely holds the joystick at the angle of the TV screen. But when you WANT the character to really go a certain way, instinctively you move that controller in you hand, more often than not in the direction you want the character to go. You can do that with a controller. You CAN'T with a fullsize arcade cabinet control panel. That's where the disconnect lies.

[Titchgamer]

Oh Ive seen people move the controller.

Like bouncing and lifting it when jumping playing mario or something (that always makes me chuckle!)

But I have never seen someone angle a controller to be parallel to the screen.

In my mind I cant see why you would, its unnatural and uncomfortable.

So when they are moving the controller, what do you THINK they are doing???

Time to go chill in the ZapCon thread... that one makes me happy...

Getting over excited? Trying to jump higher? I have no idea but its damn funny watching them jump up and down trying to jump over a pit lol

Maybe they think its a Wii mote? Maybe thats why the Wii was so successful??
Its taken Nintendo to learn the true meaning of getting in the game!

Nah I dunno but at no point has anyone to my knowledge angled a controller at 45 to match the TV or said "Hey its easier if I hold the controller at a angle"

Like I said my theory is its a in ya head thing, maybe perception based.
Ie you move relative to the character/player whatever vs you move relative to the screen.
I guess it would be like using inverted controls on FPS games or flying a plane in battlefield etc.

I really do think there is more to this than theres made out to be.

Clearly you don't understand what BadMouth or I have brought up. No one sits there and purposely holds the joystick at the angle of the TV screen. But when you WANT the character to really go a certain way, instinctively you move that controller in you hand, more often than not in the direction you want the character to go. You can do that with a controller. You CAN'T with a fullsize arcade cabinet control panel. That's where the disconnect lies.

Yeah I understand what you are saying, And to some degree understand the logic behind it.

But having spent a great deal of time with a controller in hand and watching mates with controllers in hand I know I dont and ive not witnessed anyone doing it.

I (and ime sure most others) sit in a relaxed position sometimes with feet up and controller sat around my waist line where it stays.

If I am playing something "heated" say cod I tend to lean forward and rest my elbows on my thighs.

My position changes but the position of the  controller doesn't.

Instinctively I know that if I push my thumb forward I go up regardless of position.

Maybe its because I am a veteran gamer?
Going back to people bouncing with controllers its always people who dont play games that do it.
Maybe thats why the industry adopted the straight approach as most people who play arcade games didn't have one at home?

Ive just tried playing my machine at 45 degrees and it feels very un natural to me. Ime hitting diagonals when I dont want to.
It feels wrong totally but again its something I am not accustomed to doing.

The science and logic behind the whole subject rather fascinates me if ime honest.
Bed time now but I think ile test some more tomorrow.
The more I tinker the more interesting it gets lol

[Le Chuck]

I've been doing kegels while playing.  Really helps. 

[Titchgamer]

I've been doing kegels while playing.  Really helps.

Helps with what!? LOL

[Titchgamer]

Well I have experimented some more today with varying results.

I tried playing PAC MAN with my stick set to 8 way at 45 degrees and it didnt go well at all.
Lets just say I didnt like them corners lol
Now obv pac man does not play well with a 8 way anyway but as I wanted to test my ability to control direction at angles this seemed the perfect way to test it.

Interestingly though I tried at 90 degrees and I could play ok.
I think this is due to my perception of the screen/character. Ie when I wanted Pac man to go up it looked like I wanted him to go left so I was pushing the joystick left (up).

Tried a few other games as well including Joust as someone mentioned it with basically the same results.

So from my personal testing I think I would prefer a angled stick at 45 degrees but straight at 90 degrees.

I also wonder if distance from the screen would make much difference.

[yotsuya]

You picked the weirdest games to "test" this theory out with.

I dunno,  I'm sure Konami play tested these games extensively, and if the overwhelming feedback had been, "the corner players didn't like the way the joysticks were oriented", they would have changed it. But they didn't, and I trust those companies.

[Titchgamer]

Well I couldnt think of anything more directionally important lol

[yotsuya]

A 4 way vertical game and a 2 way joystick game. Yet all these 4 player games are 8 way horizontal games....

[Titchgamer]

Oh I tried others to Yot.
Including turtles lol
Buttons were awkward but I was more interested in the movement of the stick.
The actual game being played was largely irelivant.

As for play testing ime sure they did.
I was just pointing out my findings for me personally.

[ark_ader]

I have to admit, I am guilty of controller orientation manipulation when in a tight spot during a session on the PSP.  Mostly when I play Ridge Racer.  I go one way, the controller/unit goes another, then an instant later I relax, and get back into position with the controller/unit.

I think everyone does this, especially when you make a mistake, getting close to the goal of high score or level completion and you panic.

What the above conversation is all about is denial and cover up.  Really?  Let's start by being honest with each other here.  You do it, we all do it.  Let's move on.

[Titchgamer]

I have to admit, I am guilty of controller orientation manipulation when in a tight spot during a session on the PSP.  Mostly when I play Ridge Racer.  I go one way, the controller/unit goes another, then an instant later I relax, and get back into position with the controller/unit.

I think everyone does this, especially when you make a mistake, getting close to the goal of high score or level completion and you panic.

What the above conversation is all about is denial and cover up.  Really?  Let's start by being honest with each other here.  You do it, we all do it.  Let's move on.

How the hell does that work with a PSP?
The controls and screen are fixed in position lol

[CCM]

Really!?   Are you nerds seriously arguing and getting butt hurt over 'controller orientation manipulation'?   Or am I just missing the sarcasm in all of these posts?     

[pbj]

I am totally confused by this thread.  What the hell are we debating?

[Titchgamer]

I am totally confused by this thread.  What the hell are we debating?

Nothing, thats why its Speechless

Ile get my coat lol

[lilshawn]

I am totally confused by this thread.  What the hell are we debating?

we where discussing who would be the last celebrity to die in 2016.