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Author Topic: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help  (Read 941 times)

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TheMythTheLegend

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ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« on: December 18, 2016, 10:26:16 pm »
Hi hows it going guys/gals.

I am working on a board I purchased as a dead dead non working board.

The board was filthy, so after a small cleaning and rub down with a soft toothbrush, I had a fairly clean board.

At first plug in, the board had no display, nothing, I pulled all eproms and re-seated, along with the cards and actually have a picture{ish} on the screen.

I am linking a link to the video of what it is currently looking like and asking for suggestions, I have put a good 3 hrs into this today, and well this board has kicked my @ss.

https://youtu.be/u8zSxXHIUKw


Also, yes this is in a working Pac man cabinet, and I need to do a fuse block job on it, as I am getting occasional what I am guessing is hum bars. only had the machine a week and waiting on parts.

Any ideas? no one really posts videos on you tube of dead boards, just of sprite issue Rom fixing and caps.

really just trying to see if anyone has seen this before.

One bar on top of screen and a few verticals on right of screen spaced out, which to me looks like the game is running in these little bars.... as I see color changes... so perhaps in the video processing section?

Thanks in advance, I plan on posting everything I find in this thread until this thing is fixed or I take an shotgun to it. ....j/k....
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 10:52:29 pm by TheMythTheLegend »

Ian

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 12:28:09 am »
I am still very new to repairing boards... but this link has helped me and I think it has enough info to at least get you started. I am sure there are guys here that have some pretty good experience working on these things..

Check out this link.

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=177192
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2016, 01:12:21 am »
just finished reading that link... all nine pages....

still im just doing a feeler to see if anyone had a similar issue... I have a couple of donor pac boards, I will next be checking by chip swapping, but I hate to blind it out since there are chances of breaking pins and solder joints on sockets..

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2016, 01:52:48 am »
post a picture of the board or board "set"
so we can better guide u

ed
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TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2016, 09:37:07 am »
Sorry buddy. Here are some pics and also a pic of the monitor output.

The monitor and power work in the cab, as my other ms pac. With the abc all on 1 chip board.

http://m.imgur.com/a/3n9lH


ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 11:31:17 am »
holy crap was that dirty...
try cleaning and reseating all of the socketed chips
btw u are not getting video at all
to clean the chip legs use a rubber eraser (go slow and careful)
1 at a time reseating them back in there proper sockets and placed the proper way "ie pin 1 to pin1" of the socket/chip

ed
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TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2016, 12:24:36 pm »
K. Hmm ill take your word for it. Could have sworn i saw colors in the vertical and the single line at the top. Could be my imagination.

I will have another go at that tonight.

If all chups except cpu ate removed was there a hatch pattern that should be displayed?

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 12:28:51 pm »
no
the board dose not work that way
3 of the most needed chips (to display video of anykind) are the 3 ram chips
normally in sockets, some do some donot have a heat sink on them
but they must be in and working to get video

ed
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TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 12:41:23 pm »
Gotcha. Thank you very much for the much needed info. Will report back tonight what I find out.

Thanks again.

TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2016, 01:34:59 am »
Well found a chip with 2 broken legs at r3. Replaced with a spare.


But i got my fluke out and found that I did NOT have voltage running across the large 10000uf caps...

Taking the board out and placing on a table. And measuring cont. Around it... I find that the caps by the audio chip are holding .5vdc voltage... All of the other caps are dead....


So I think I am going to bite the bullet and order a few cap kits and dick around with that for this weekend....


So c3 c10 c8 bad is what i am thinking. On ohms, i should see the caps slowly climb and then reversing would be slowly in the opposite....

I also thought an open cont. Capacitor was faulty to leakage and would not measure voltage.


These big caps read between half a v dc and 1.01v dc... So I am guessing they are shot

I think they are fake chinese parts... Not even a temp rating on Them...


Am i going the right direction guys??

I figure if I am gonna recap the board... Might as well do them all...

Or solder in place with just the tips of leads in and test. Then resolder and cut shorter if it works lol


Im shot.   3 hrs working on this board....  Why oh why this hobby..... Fml


Edit...

Ok my use of some electrical terms is crap, as I was very tired and decided to stop playing with electricity. I will look over and fix my word usage.


Also

I am looking at more in the area of D9-in4735 and Q6-d44vm4...

I am thinking either I have a grounding issue and the c7/c8 10000uf caps are not getting voltage...  And the d9 q6 may not be getting ground and sending a signal... Which i did not check last night (need a fking bench setup).

This is where a logic probe would save me...

But then again I had continuity in the same places as my working pacman board.

But I did not check line voltages... Which I should have and written this all down...

Pure speculations... But it is either a ground issue or caps or the d9&q6.  As the other side c caps had a .5/.6ish voltage so i would assume ground is good... Atleast on that side

So that would be the "A" solder side ground 7V GND...

Or the 7V at d&4 pins... Which also brings me back to d7&d8 on the phase a of the 7v line....

I need to do some serious testing...


Can anyone tell me if I am atleast tracking this down right?

My connector is a little toasty... Im adding a pic to the album on imgur.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 10:15:24 am by TheMythTheLegend »

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2016, 11:34:27 am »
on your board
is a 12volt regulator
i will dig my orignal ms pac out and give u a break down of the vcc path
however it will not hurt to do a cap kit on the board (sound) suffers the worest with these crap caps

ed
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TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2016, 11:53:17 am »
Thanks ed. I am going to toss links in this thread to what I have been finding and to info to try to centralize it.

I have a total of 3 dead pac boards And I want to share what I am learning/ finding/asking.

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2016, 12:03:10 pm »
do u have the full schmeatic ?
it is 9+meg. if not i will see if i can host it

ed
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TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2016, 12:24:58 pm »
I got it at mikes arcade site.

Which part am i looking for.

I have the schematic open on my phone.

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2016, 12:32:29 pm »
please down load this 9.9meg file
as it is the 1 i am using (master)
link >https://ufile.io/94c59
let me know , i need to step away for a few hours

ed
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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2016, 05:02:32 pm »
Got it. So it could be the diode d9 or that trans at q6.

I think its a diode.

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2016, 11:39:04 pm »
ok if u are on ?
u say u have a multi meter.
set it to ac volts
and do a readout at the secondary side of your power transformer (at the fuses) that lead to the wire harness that leads to the ms pacman board
lets see if we have ac power there first before we blame diodes/transistors etc
so set to ac volts and chk on the jama interface (power in pins)
#c and 3 and d and 4 so c and d or 3 and 4 should give u 14 volts ac
then c and a should give u 7 volts ac
these to are the low voltage ac in for the 5v system
so we chk them first
them we move on to the high power 1's (16volt) which is your 12 volt feed

ed
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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2016, 12:57:55 am »
Hey ed. Sorry if I was not clear. But im working on a second board. My main ms pac is working in my cabinet. Which I needed to check on the voltages because the pcb that is working has some burn on the edge connector. Game still works. But I hear a hum and have "screen hum bars"...

Had this thing a week. First arcade, bare with me on this.

I have a fluke 115.

Let me get you the cabinet voltages

On fuse block getting 12.43, 12.31, 7.28, & 7.18 im losing .05 on the 7vac lines across the fuseblock.

Also.... The damned ground is cut inside the cabinet...

Shouldn't this pacman be grounded through the socket?

« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 09:01:51 am by TheMythTheLegend »

ed12

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2016, 01:14:16 am »
ok
there important to know
take your time
i am off to bed

ed
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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2016, 09:03:08 am »

http://m.imgur.com/TK396vR

That image is to what I have seen across my 4 pacman boards. Good is the working board in my cabinet. M16 is the one I am working on currently, pcman and 585 are next to be worked on but the 10k caps are blown on them.... (Buldging inflated like a puffer fish).


From my own testing I am seeing that on the m16 board. D6 is WAY above my working board number .552 to .616. And D9 .104 working to .120 thats .016 higher or 16 thousandth higher.   Also the r53 4ohm at 10w. Is up to 4.8ohm highest of the 4 but only 1tenth of an ohm higher than the working board.

I would have to check the tolerances of the components tomarrow.


I ran out of time tonight working on the cab. Add another 3 hrs... So 6 hrs about total time now...

So thank you Ed for the help, I am really trying to include as much as I can. As I appericiate the help.

Tomarrow I will check the voltages at the harness.

That damned thing is original and very hard to handle.... This seems to be a pretty origial cab. I am going to replace the broken t-molding tho...

TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2016, 02:59:05 pm »
Found a d9 6.2v zener diode at a local shop checking tonight.

Whats the best version of a pac edge connector fix?

Jammaboards seemes to be closed atm

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2016, 04:39:59 pm »
the edge conector (i use) is a modified normal jamma connector..
i did look your table over
i do not find faults to chat about
a ohm here or there , ah age/stress (your hair goes grey to believe it or not)
a volt here or there ? thats a little much but .05 eh not worth the grey hair...
if the zener is bad there is olny a few ways
normal is dead short
second is leak
third is open
so in short unless u have seen little grey smoke fairys ?
and or your board will not even power up
u are reading it in circuit (bad)
normal test (unsolder 1 end lift out of board) read if good ? put end back in carry on
if open u will see 5.2 volts go to the full rail voltage of the feed (ie 5.2 would =12) like that
if leaky? well then that is open

ed

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TheMythTheLegend

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2016, 07:17:21 am »
Lol smoke fairies....

Genie out of the bottle is how I learned it.

I unsoldered one leg on the components...board looks like crap right now lol

But I have a couple I am going to replace. I will document here. I need a day away

Gotta package 25lbs of summer sausage.

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Re: ms PacMan PCB Diag Help
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2017, 05:51:35 pm »
Also check out this AMAZING guide about pac boards.  Apparently this guy worked at Midway (cool story about Crazy Otto and Ms. Pacman too - Great read).
http://lawnmowerman.rotheblog.com/#settings

DeL
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 05:54:25 pm by DeLuSioNal29 »
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