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| Windows tablets...Cheap Gen 1 Surface Pro vs. Dell Venue 11 pro |
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| Howard_Casto:
But it's a gap that doesn't need filled. If you need a powerful machine with a keyboard, you obviously need a laptop and not a tablet. If you don't then a netbook or tablet will do you at which point it's too expensive. Btw products like the surface will never be cheaper than desktops unless they stop making desktops. Why? Common sense. The latest and greatest processor/architecture/ect. is always going to be large... because it just became possible to mass produce it. By the time it is miniaturized for a laptop or similar device they've already came out with the next latest and greatest thing on the pc end of things. The surface, and products like it are even smaller and thus, even more expensive. Because windows and other OS always optimize to the average hardware, you'll always have to have a fairly powerful pc to run the OS well and thus you'll either pay a small fortune to buy something like the surface with cutting edge miniaturized tech, be more reasonable and buy a laptop, or be cheap and buy a tablet/netbook or buy outdated tech that may or may not perform well enough to get what you want done. |
| knave:
I think the Surface is aimed at business/corporate users who don't buy their own technology...meaning that any device around $1000 is an acceptable price point. For a home user or out-of-pocket businessman it feels like too much to me. Though tech junkies and early adopters might be ok with it. Long after I wanted one, I spoke to a co-worker who used his for everything. He loved it and could not say enough good things about it. After comparing the two windows tablets, I realize that the Dell is one generation newer than the Surface and has a 4th generation i3 vs. the 3rd gen i5 of the surface. Right away other manufacturers released windows tablets with comparable specs for abut half the price of a surface. CPU benchmarks still place the i5 way ahead of the i3, loosing only in terms of power consumption. This is a trend I noticed in once I started to pick up older Business class units...the older gen core CPU can often handle more operations then the newer gen equivalent. Both of the these tablets handle any average productivity use with ease. I remember hating Netbooks with a passion as I did not find the Atom CPUs up to average tasks. Where windows tablets win is their ability to run standard software. Windows 8.1 was an ok tablet interface...windows 10 is even better. in some ways though windows still lags behind tablet veterans such as IOS and android...the UIs are just more intuitive and streamlined. For me it is a done deal...I'm not invested in either the Apple or Android ecosystems but do have lots and lots of windows software. It is real cool to take all my stuff with me in one device. |
| dkersten:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on December 09, 2016, 01:04:56 pm ---But it's a gap that doesn't need filled. If you need a powerful machine with a keyboard, you obviously need a laptop and not a tablet. If you don't then a netbook or tablet will do you at which point it's too expensive. --- End quote --- A part of me agrees. Then I look at a $250 tablet vs a $1000 laptop and have a desire for near laptop performance out of something costing closer to a tablet (and has the other conveniences of a tablet, like hyper-portability) and I can see the gap pretty clearly as well as a need to fill it. Like Knave said though, this need to fill it is more for business use. I have hundreds of guys in the field calling on customers. A moderate business laptop with an Office license is around $1200 and lasts 4-5 years. Then there is the smartphone, which when you strip away the padded monthly costs, is a $500-700 device that lasts about 2 years. But when standing there talking to a customer, it is inconvenient to pull out your laptop to look at literature and pricing. And the phone is too small. So the tablet is perfect, but another $250+ for the device, plus support from IT staff and that extra bit of tech adds up in a hurry. So if we can combine the laptop and tablet it could be cheaper and easier, right? But the tablet isn't going to last 4-5 years, most keyboards are junk, the screen is small unless you spend more, and in the end it can't do everything a laptop can. That's where the Surface comes in (or should anyway). But at $900-$1000 for a 2 year device... well, still not quite there. No price incentive to switch. It needs to get down to the $400-500 range. I can get a bare bones Surface Pro 4 right now for $700, but what I really need is the $800+ version with the core i5 for a few hundred less... FYI, a lot of people in similar industries are moving to virtualization with tablets. Get them a tablet and a citrix client and you have a 2 year device for well under $500 that can run any desktop software. Not bad if you can spring for a server to run a few hundred virtualized desktops... --- Quote ---Btw products like the surface will never be cheaper than desktops unless they stop making desktops. Why? Common sense. The latest and greatest processor/architecture/ect. is always going to be large... because it just became possible to mass produce it. By the time it is miniaturized for a laptop or similar device they've already came out with the next latest and greatest thing on the pc end of things. The surface, and products like it are even smaller and thus, even more expensive. Because windows and other OS always optimize to the average hardware, you'll always have to have a fairly powerful pc to run the OS well and thus you'll either pay a small fortune to buy something like the surface with cutting edge miniaturized tech, be more reasonable and buy a laptop, or be cheap and buy a tablet/netbook or buy outdated tech that may or may not perform well enough to get what you want done. --- End quote --- Intel has been releasing their laptop parts before the desktop counterparts for the last 2 generations. Desktops are already dead, and the pricing out there shows it. Pricing is driven by demand and there is almost no demand for midrange desktops any more. For a few years now, the drive for manufacturers has been focused on smaller, more efficient parts and pieces and small batteries to run it. The smartphone market has proven that there is a demand for high end miniaturized computers. Unless you are looking for a workstation or gaming machine, the price difference between laptops and desktops is currently a wash. And for the kind of tablet I am talking about filling that gap with, it just needs to be a viable desktop/laptop replacement, doesn't need to be a bleeding edge powerhouse. When these tablets can do what a laptop can do and be priced somewhere between an ARM based tablet and a laptop/desktop, then the gap will be filled. We are getting close, but not quite there yet. |
| Howard_Casto:
Sorry but that just isn't true. The desktop version is cheaper because it's easier to mass produce and that will always be the case. Desktops are alive and well and so long as there are businesses they always will be. |
| dkersten:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on December 09, 2016, 08:47:11 pm ---Sorry but that just isn't true. The desktop version is cheaper because it's easier to mass produce and that will always be the case. Desktops are alive and well and so long as there are businesses they always will be. --- End quote --- When was the last time you bought a computer from a mainstream manufacturer like Dell, HP, or Lenovo? I just bought 30 desktops and 15 laptops. The laptops have the same specs, right down to the 128gb ssd drives, chipset series, cpu series and generation, ram, and screen resolution. The laptops started edging out the desktops with monitors 2 years now ago.. Up until then there was a clear price difference. Not so any more. Desktop demand dropped out on the consumer side, which drove prices up on the business side where there is still demand. But laptops outsell desktops be a huge margin, and that is not going to stop. When desktops get too expensive, businesses will just replace them with laptops, thin clients, or just the newer micro desktops which are just laptops with desktop processors in them and no screen or keyboard attached. If manufacturers have their way, tablets will do the same to laptops in the next few years. Cheaper to make, no serviceable parts, shorter lifespan... it's a manufacturers dream. Only thing holding them back is businesses, and when you can convince businesses to get a tablet instead of a laptop, like the Surface for example, you have effectively started the clock on the demise of the laptops... |
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