So ... 3d Printers....

[Howard_Casto]

So have you tried vapor smoothing yet?    I'm only really interested in working with abs if I can get some smoothing action working in a reliable way.

[BadMouth]

So have you tried vapor smoothing yet?    I'm only really interested in working with abs if I can get some smoothing action working in a reliable way.

I have not.  Despite buying this roll of ABS with the printer long ago, this is the first time I've worked with it.  Haven't printed anything but Voron parts and a fan bracket for the Mega.  With this size print bed, I probably won't be printing anything but Voron parts for a few weeks, lol.

I think I have it dialed in except for the bridging.  Bridging is horrendous, but I'd have to learn something other than Cura to speed up or turn on a cooling fan only during bridges.  Could be that I'm only printing at 30mm/sec, but parts are printing while I sleep so might as well use the full 6-8 hours instead of 4.

[yotsuya]

Try SuperSlicer. I’ve moved over to it and love it.


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[BadMouth]

Try SuperSlicer. I’ve moved over to it and love it.

I need to.  Googled it before, but that's as far as I got.

Still getting some warping on long parts.  The the mating surfaces print face up and those come out level, so the parts are still usable.
I was hoping not to resort to "ABS juice" or hairspray, but might have to. 
Big parts either warp a little where I can get a putty knife under the edge and remove them easily or don't warp and are next to impossible to remove without damage.
Gonna print everything, then reprint the imperfect ones if time and ABS permit.
Some of the skirting on the 350x350 Voron is too big to print on the mini anyway, so going to wait until the Voron is functional and use it to do those large pieces.

I will probably give ABS a try on the Mega this weekend since an all metal hotend has been installed.  The print bed is larger and gets a lot hotter.
The print quality isn't as dialed in and I really don't want to mess with building an enclosure for it though.

[nitrogen_widget]

So have you tried vapor smoothing yet?    I'm only really interested in working with abs if I can get some smoothing action working in a reliable way.

Yes.
This was a rush smooth job with no primer for one of my tap handles after I decided to bring hard cider to a party last yr.
just red filament.
Had to blob paint onto it because it wasn't adhering well to the smoothed ABS so that's why it isn't pretty, but I think it worked out.

[yotsuya]

That looks cool!

I’m pretty happy with where my printer is now. The axes are all dialed in, I’ve got the z offset set just right. It’s pretty much set and forget when it comes to prints now.


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[BadMouth]

While the mini is printing black parts, I thought I'd try the red ABS on the Mega.
Don't have any full parts to show for it yet, but this Hatchbox ABS wants a much lower temperature than expected.
Started at 235 and had to step all the way down to 220 before the surface finish on each layer looked correct.
If other colors are the same, an all-metal hotend is not required for this brand.

I question whether it is really ABS, but the test parts I let print halfway seem tough....maybe a bit too flexible for ABS, but tough.
It still warps like ABS.  Gonna buy some hairspray tomorrow. 

[BadMouth]

It’s pretty much set and forget when it comes to prints now.

That's a dream of mine.   The mini was set and forget until I moved onto things other than PLA.

[nitrogen_widget]

The extruder on my MPMD broke.
so I ordered an all metal one.


got out the other MPMD and a pi zero for octoprint.
the one with the marlin upgrade.
it's printing something out in ABS since I have tpu printed sides to enclose it and 10 amp PSU.
However it's stuttering a little.
noticed baud is 115k instead 256k like my other one.
so i have to look at why i can't connect at the higher speed.

[Malenko]

I have printed a million of these. Just printed this last night. If you’re a BYOACer who went to ZapCon, you probably have one.

a lifetime on this site and my legacy is drawing a dickbutt on your zapcon poster

[yotsuya]

I have printed a million of these. Just printed this last night. If you’re a BYOACer who went to ZapCon, you probably have one.

a lifetime on this site and my legacy is drawing a dickbutt on your zapcon poster

It’s kinda your ZapCon thing...


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[Gilrock]

I got the enclosure built for my sons printer.  Just need to get it inside there now.  I extended the top to accomodate the feed tubing and wiring.  The top also has a hinge in back so it can be lifted for top access.

[yotsuya]

Nice job bro!


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[nitrogen_widget]

banner week here:
MPMD extruder broke - have the new one now. need to install and re-calibrate e-steps.
put a hole in my FEP sheet on my resin printer (didn't notice a bit of cured resin in the vat) - new sheets on order.
my da vinci jr's extruder gears sound like a jabba walker in heat...think it just needs oiling.

but my other MPMD with the upgraded power supply is turning out decent pet-g prints with minimal stringing and my Chiron is still working.

[BadMouth]

banner week here:
MPMD extruder broke - have the new one now. need to install and re-calibrate e-steps.
put a hole in my FEP sheet on my resin printer (didn't notice a bit of cured resin in the vat) - new sheets on order.
my da vinci jr's extruder gears sound like a jabba walker in heat...think it just needs oiling.

but my other MPMD with the upgraded power supply is turning out decent pet-g prints with minimal stringing and my Chiron is still working.

Sometimes I think this is a lousy hobby. 

My current problem is that the Mega prints ABS well......except for one layer about a half a centimeter off the bed.   
Same layer every time, every part, even with a full plate of parts. Was convinced it was an extrusion problem.
Rebuilt the extruder, relocated the spool, cleaned the leadscrews, loosened and realigned both the leadscrews and guides.
The last thing I can think of is that there is some weird airflow thing happening with the stock hotend fan box (which is 1/2" lower after installing a V6).
This morning I printed a new fan shroud to pull air through and away.  Fingers crossed that it works this evening.

Large Voron parts are warping on the mini, so I may have to break down and try abs juice or print them on the Mega if the bad layer problem can be fixed.

(I've since gone brimless, as breaking off the brims leaves an unsightly white line on the edge.  Sanding doesn't take it off.  Chamfering with an xacto knife leaves a nice edge, but is tedious.)

[Gilrock]

If its always the same spot vertically I would suspect something in the drive train/gearing/belts that does the vertical lifting.

[BadMouth]

If its always the same spot vertically I would suspect something in the drive train/gearing/belts that does the vertical lifting.

Yeah, but I can't find anything on the leadscrews that would cause it.  When I watch it happen, it looks like an extrusion issue, but when I feel the filament feeding in, it never slips and the rate doesn't change.  All of a sudden there are strings that seem too high to stick, which lead me to the longshot that maybe the ABS is shrinking downward because of the air from the fanbox.  Maybe that's the level at which the heat from the bed no longer overcomes it.  Longshot I know, but I've tested everything else I could think of.  Experimented with speeds, temperatures(both slight improvement), wall thickness, infill %.

EDIT: It could still be something mechanical, so please share any ideas.  I just visually inspected the leadscrews.  Did not see any wobble or debris.

[BadMouth]

Just had the thought that I could raise the bed through the adjuster springs and see if the defect stays at the same level on the part or moves down.  If it moves down, that would point to a problem in the z axis hardware.

[nitrogen_widget]

banner week here:
MPMD extruder broke - have the new one now. need to install and re-calibrate e-steps.
put a hole in my FEP sheet on my resin printer (didn't notice a bit of cured resin in the vat) - new sheets on order.
my da vinci jr's extruder gears sound like a jabba walker in heat...think it just needs oiling.

but my other MPMD with the upgraded power supply is turning out decent pet-g prints with minimal stringing and my Chiron is still working.

Sometimes I think this is a lousy hobby. 

My current problem is that the Mega prints ABS well......except for one layer about a half a centimeter off the bed.   
Same layer every time, every part, even with a full plate of parts. Was convinced it was an extrusion problem.
Rebuilt the extruder, relocated the spool, cleaned the leadscrews, loosened and realigned both the leadscrews and guides.
The last thing I can think of is that there is some weird airflow thing happening with the stock hotend fan box (which is 1/2" lower after installing a V6).
This morning I printed a new fan shroud to pull air through and away.  Fingers crossed that it works this evening.

Large Voron parts are warping on the mini, so I may have to break down and try abs juice or print them on the Mega if the bad layer problem can be fixed.

(I've since gone brimless, as breaking off the brims leaves an unsightly white line on the edge.  Sanding doesn't take it off.  Chamfering with an xacto knife leaves a nice edge, but is tedious.)

That's weird how it does it in the same spot.
Are you printing from octoprint or sdcard? if Sdcard try a different card.
Try a different slicer or a different version of the slicer.
Is your Fan turning on at that layer by chance?
I can't think of anything else other than your z screw is tweaked at that height.

[BadMouth]

That's weird how it does it in the same spot.
Are you printing from octoprint or sdcard? if Sdcard try a different card.
Try a different slicer or a different version of the slicer.
Is your Fan turning on at that layer by chance?
I can't think of anything else other than your z screw is tweaked at that height.

The new fan setup seems to have done the trick although I violated the main rule of testing; I changed two variables.
The other thing I did was remove the spring steel PEI sheet.  It was held on with binder clips, not magnets.
It could have been warping, but I don't think the problem layer would have been even across a whole plate of parts if that were the case.
30% into the Voron blower cover and all seems well.  Using hairspray on the Ultrabase.  Hoping it's not that hard to remove when finished.

[nitrogen_widget]

That's weird how it does it in the same spot.
Are you printing from octoprint or sdcard? if Sdcard try a different card.
Try a different slicer or a different version of the slicer.
Is your Fan turning on at that layer by chance?
I can't think of anything else other than your z screw is tweaked at that height.

The new fan setup seems to have done the trick although I violated the main rule of testing; I changed two variables.
The other thing I did was remove the spring steel PEI sheet.  It was held on with binder clips, not magnets.
It could have been warping, but I don't think the problem layer would have been even across a whole plate of parts if that were the case.
30% into the Voron blower cover and all seems well.  Using hairspray on the Ultrabase.  Hoping it's not that hard to remove when finished.

Probably the reason my mini can't do ABS. The only fan is heat sink and part cooling. Kill fan and you get heat creep.
Keep fan and and warps.
But since PET-G loves cooling like PLA it works great.

 Metal scraper on a corner, be gentle it will pop up. Some people tear chunks out of their ultrbase  and I just don't know how.
They really have to  be  brutal to do that .
I have the ultra base and even with purple glue stick and still comes off.
Sometimes not easy but you just have to be patient and slowly work it from the corners.

[BadMouth]

Left it until morning.  Not sure if it was because the ultrabase was cooled, but it felt like it was barely attached when I pulled it off.
First layer wouldn't stick to the ultrabase by itself.  The Aquanet extra super hold made a big difference.

The mini is now printing everything squished shorter than it should be.  So I'm printing some large parts on the Mega with the old mystery ABS that I was using on the mini.
It smells much more like the real thing than the Hatchbox stuff (cough, cough).  20% in and it looks great so far.  I'm actually impressed with the Mega now.  Using brims on these large parts because I've already wasted enough plastic trying to print them on the mini select.

Hey Yotz, what was the deal with your Z axis and how was it resolved?

[yotsuya]

Doing this upgrade was fun and definitely a learning experience.

The main culprit was the replacement auto bed leveling sensor. The model I got was sensitive to fluctuations in temperature. I did some research and found a better model, swapped it out, then after I took care of that, I had to do some more dialing in and printed some new bed spacers. Once I took care of all that, it’s been perfect.

Oh, and that blower cover looks great!

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[BadMouth]

The mega is cranking out good parts steady now.  The only part that gives me trouble are the big z-bases on the right.  They were printed on the mini and warped a bit, but probably still useable.  They warp on the mega too.  It's a big block and fairly dense.

Extrusion won't be here until May, so I tinkered with the 1000mm sticks I bought before.  Chopped it up into a 250mm Voron 1.8 kit...mostly.  Had to use 20x40 on some parts.  Just going to throw leftover parts at it then see where it stands.

[yotsuya]

That’s awesome, dude. Nice to see


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[BadMouth]

Stimulus money has me throwing money at the Voron BOM just to get it over with.

Bought the expensive Igus chains ($70).  I have generic chains on my 3018cnc which won't lay flat and it bothers me.
Bought an acrylic and laser cut aluminum panel sets from printedsolid.  (chloroplast seems kinda chincy)
Bought a 350x350 PEI spring steel sheet and magnet set not on the standard BOM.
Overpaid for stuff on Amazon just to get it over with.

Currently at $1,611
Still have to buy the SKR boards/drivers and Raspberry Pi.
I may just use the two SKR1.3 boards I have.
So we are coming in around $1,700-1,800.
I could do much better with what I know now, but that is where I'm at.
Probably could have bought a real nice printer already built for that.

The kits on Ali-Express look like a great deal now, even if some parts need to be swapped out for better quality.

[yotsuya]

You’re all in, dude. I admire that. I’m telling you, From what I’ve seen from my friend’s Voron, the journey will be worth it.


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[nitrogen_widget]

I replaced the FEP on my resin printer.
if i just arrange prints around the missing part of polarizer things print fine.
a new screen with glass over the polarizer has been ordered.
but, since i really only print minis on it i can work around it until it needs replacement.

can't wait to see some voron's built and running.

[BadMouth]

I replaced the FEP on my resin printer.
if i just arrange prints around the missing part of polarizer things print fine.
a new screen with glass over the polarizer has been ordered.
but, since i really only print minis on it i can work around it until it needs replacement.

can't wait to see some voron's built and running.

So is the resin worth the hassle?
How about for someone who only occasionally prints mins?

The ABS prints on my enclosed mp mini select were turning out short.
Not sure if it is from the ABS shrinking or the printer losing z-steps.
Outside of the enclosure, the z-axis is accurate.  I think maybe the z axis stepper was overheating.

I installed a .2mm nozzle thinking I would use it for miniature stuff, but haven't printed anything yet.

[BadMouth]

Bought the expensive Igus chains ($70).  I have generic chains on my 3018cnc which won't lay flat and it bothers me.

These weren't worth it.  They curve upward exactly like the cheap generic ones I have.
Maybe it is part of the design I don't understand to keep them from binding.

Either way, when you build a Voron, buy generic and save money to spend elsewhere on the build.

[nitrogen_widget]

So is the resin worth the hassle?
How about for someone who only occasionally prints mins?

The ABS prints on my enclosed mp mini select were turning out short.
Not sure if it is from the ABS shrinking or the printer losing z-steps.
Outside of the enclosure, the z-axis is accurate.  I think maybe the z axis stepper was overheating.

I installed a .2mm nozzle thinking I would use it for miniature stuff, but haven't printed anything yet.

if you are only printing a few it may not be worth it.
you need gloves when handling the resin and emptying the vat.
the resin gets everywhere no matter how hard you try not to drip.
I use mr. clean in a sonic cleaner to get the excess resin off my mini's since it's cheaper than isopropyl and so much easier than shaking them in a container.
then i use an old tooth brush to clean the mr clean off them.
i built a curing station that took me 10 mins. to make.

you need a funnel and a paint filter for when you pour the resin back into the container when a print does fail and you need to clean the vat. there could be bits of plastic are floating in it.
i gotta say it was a HUGE pain in the ass for me when i started using the resin printer but now i have a system and it isn't so bad.

I printed a dozen or so mini's for the Dungeon! board game and they came out ok on my mini with a .2mm nozzle.
not a lot of facial detail but you could tell what what class each mini was for the game.
I see people get better fdm prints and it comes down to how long you want to print for and the scale of the mini.
here is a pic of my .2mm  fdm prints next to my resin prints.
I've seen people get much better fdm prints but they say print time for one mini is 4hrs.
i'm printing tree's in pet-g now on my mini delta and they are coming out good.
I'll still print larger miniatures like giants on FDM also. the quality is good enough for larger models.

I plan to print more mini's though and you can print 5 or 6 mini's in 3hrs or less on resin.
plus they really do look close to injection molded mini's you buy.

ok, for some reason my pic of my minis doesn't want to upload.
i get a security error.
i'll upload later.

[nitrogen_widget]

jr. extruder just needed oiling.
but had to disassemble the whole thing to do it.
then the ptfe connector gave up the ghost when i went to run a test print.
LOL!

I can't replace the extruder because the proprietary firmware doesn't allow e-step adjusting.
it was their thing.
easy 3d printers with easy to replace modular parts and locked firmware.

[Vigo]

Where do you get your miniature models, nitro? (or do you design your own?) Last time I checked, Thingiverse was only good for certain minis.

Love playing Dungeon! with my oldest son, BTW!

[05SRT4]

Where do you get your miniature models, nitro? (or do you design your own?) Last time I checked, Thingiverse was only good for certain minis.

Love playing Dungeon! with my oldest son, BTW!

MyMiniFactory Is a great place for minis

https://www.myminifactory.com

[nitrogen_widget]

Where do you get your miniature models, nitro? (or do you design your own?) Last time I checked, Thingiverse was only good for certain minis.

Love playing Dungeon! with my oldest son, BTW!

My buddies and I play it every yr on our lake trip.

thingiverse, and as was said myminifactory.
thingiverse has a horrible search engine. google works better.
most models i used for Dungeon! were from the guy who does pocket tactics and there are large collections of mini's with non-descriptive names you have to download and pick through.
shapeways also.
I print the free one's mostly.

I'm looking to start doing skirmish battles with friends.
like the war hammer wars but with warbands instead of armies.
I have a buddy who just got a resin printer also and he's been churning them out.
He's been doing model painting and showed me which air brush and paints to get.

[BadMouth]

Just ordered the last of the stuff for the Voron.  Total damage $1,828.
I could do much better if doing it again.

My advice: 
Only use the sourcing guide for item reference.

Watch nero3dp's youtube videos before ordering anything.  The sourcing guide is not as set in stone as I thought when ordering.  I ordered the black robot digg rails from the sourcing guide then saw a video where he said not to buy the black rails from robot digg because they were more brittle. The sourcing guide changed later.  I bought an Skr3 board from the sourcing guide and the guide later changed to Skr4.
Join and check the Discord forum (I still haven't).

Place bigger orders at fewer vendors even if the individual part may be more.
If doing it over again, I would have gotten as many of the parts from Powge and TriangleLabs as possible.
For the hardware, I would have ordered 100pc bags from China for any bolts that I needed more than 25 of and tried to cover some of the others with assortment sets.
We are screwing together plastic and aluminum.  It doesn't take grade 8 bolts.

EDIT: I also would have bought generic cable chains instead of the Igus ones.

If doing it over again, I might even just order a kit knowing that I'll have to swap in some better parts.

Now that all the parts printed except for the skirts (which will be printed on the voron), I am circling back around to the main z-drive units which were warped.
Last night I printed one on a 110 degree bed, aquanet hairspray on anycubic ultrabase, draft shield enabled in cura, enclosed printer that stayed around 49-50 degrees.
...still very slight warp on the edges.  For all the other parts, hairspray and the enclosure with the front left open has been good enough.  The problem is that these are big dense chunks of ABS (using 40% infill).
eSun ABS+ came back into stock on amazon and I snagged a roll, so we'll see if that warps next week.

[nitrogen_widget]

DAMN!
if this thing prints that well you could probably start a business doing prints on commission.
I assume this printer will handle nylon and more exotic materials when enclosed?

It was probably posted before but what is the build volume?

[BadMouth]

DAMN!
if this thing prints that well you could probably start a business doing prints on commission.
I assume this printer will handle nylon and more exotic materials when enclosed?

It was probably posted before but what is the build volume?

350mmx350mm
All the parts seem little compared to how it looks in pictures.  It will probably only hit the temperatures I am already getting with the Mega inside a foam insulated box.  I am hoping to print 1/16 scale RC bodies in one piece.

I started a 250x250 Voron 1.8ish build using leftovers and parts I already had on hand.  That will be the hot one with a hardened nozzle.  Loosely following nero3dp's hot boi build.

 I don't want to sink any money into that one until the 2.4 is done though.  Gonna start working on sub-assemblies this weekend, but the frame won't be here until May.

[nitrogen_widget]

DAMN!
if this thing prints that well you could probably start a business doing prints on commission.
I assume this printer will handle nylon and more exotic materials when enclosed?

It was probably posted before but what is the build volume?

350mmx350mm
All the parts seem little compared to how it looks in pictures.  It will probably only hit the temperatures I am already getting with the Mega inside a foam insulated box.  I am hoping to print 1/16 scale RC bodies in one piece.

I started a 250x250 Voron 1.8ish build using leftovers and parts I already had on hand.  That will be the hot one with a hardened nozzle.  Loosely following nero3dp's hot boi build.

 I don't want to sink any money into that one until the 2.4 is done though.  Gonna start working on sub-assemblies this weekend, but the frame won't be here until May.

Those RC bodies are big enough where you can get some amazing detail with .08mm layer height.
Pet-g would be a good standard filament for those.
since you will most likely be painting them the discoloration from sanding pet-g won't be an issue.

[BadMouth]

eSun ABS+ came early.  ABS+ part is top, regular ABS part is bottom.  You can see an edge on each where the part lifted as it shrank.  While the ABS+ did lift a little bit less, I am not overly impressed.  The corners still lifted despite taking a chunk out of my ultrabase.  It did not bridge as well as regular ABS.  It was left overnight, was cool when removed, and didn't take much force. While the base stuck, just above the base still shrank resulting in the side curving in like a vase (slightly).  The color is also flat and will not look right mated to shiny ABS parts, so if you're going to use ABS+, use it for everything.

So I'm going back to troubleshooting regular ABS.  I think my infill pattern may be contributing to the problem (tri-hexagon), as long straight runs shrinking are what causes enough force for the corners to lift.  I don't think tabs would help just yet.  The part is useable, but I'd still like to improve my abilities with ABS.