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Author Topic: So ... 3d Printers....  (Read 161546 times)

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nitrogen_widget

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1160 on: February 25, 2022, 06:16:06 pm »
I will have to try ASA when i get an enclosure.
what wattage is your hotend heater on the voron?
50w?

the only issue with food safe filament is all the microscopic nooks and crannies in the print where things can hide and grow.
though i can't imagine much living through a dishwasher cycle.
top rack only though.

I had to look up delrin.
they say bed should be around 130c and on top for delrin.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1161 on: February 25, 2022, 09:38:49 pm »
I will have to try ASA when i get an enclosure.
what wattage is your hotend heater on the voron?
50w?

The Voron 2.4 has a 40w in a Dragon (both standard Dragon and High Flow).
The Voron 1.8 has a 50w in a V6 knockoff.
I haven't timed them, but don't feel like it makes a huge difference.
Hotends heat pretty fast in general.  It's the beds that take a while.

I am impressed with the Overture ASA.  I printed a fan tower from 50-10% fan to see when too much fan during bridging would cause layer separation.  I figured that I would see where the tower broke easiest.
...I cannot break it with my bare hands.  Not getting as good of a surface finish as ABS, but it's probably from running the bigger nozzle and fiddling with settings.  Or it could be that the white color shows everything. 

On the food safe filament: One of the reviewers printed a prosthetic hand out of polypropylene so it could be thrown in the dishwasher to clean it.

On a side note, I am going back to a .4 nozzle.  It could be the slicer, but the printing paths Cura chooses for the wider lines don't seem optimal to me and my prints aren't coming out as nice.  Lots of gaps between walls and spotty infills of those gaps with the .6 nozzle.  Outer surfaces aren't as clean. A more seasoned enthusiast could probably work through it, but I have stuff other than calibration tests that I want to get printed.  Odd thing is that when I switched Cura back to the .4 nozzle, the time for a two hour print only went up by twenty minutes. 

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1162 on: February 26, 2022, 10:20:17 am »
I use prusia slicer with my chiron and it's .6 nozzle when printing terrain for miniatures and they come out fantastic.
can't even tell i used a bigger nozzle.
though my layer height is .16, it still prints a little faster than .4

I could never dial in the .6 on cura or more accuratly i tried both slicers and prusia worked better for me off the bat.

however i could never get prusiaslicer to give me prints as nice as i got with cura on my minidelta.
so i use both. :)


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1163 on: February 26, 2022, 10:23:36 am »
I was going to build an enclosure on my old workbench in the basement for all my printers.
it's cold down there so i need one.
probably with a heat source.

then i saw this.

https://www.amazon.com/Green-House-HC-4202-Greenhouse-Indoor-Shelves-Grow/dp/B01GDVVZY4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1Y8DCTDTWIA9P&keywords=green+house&qid=1645888424&sprefix=green+house%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-6



I think a properly hung heat lamp with those interlocking foam pads as the floor should do the trick.

bad idea, good idea?
I can't build an enclosure for just one printer for that price and i have the room.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1164 on: February 26, 2022, 11:42:32 am »
For a heated chamber I don't think it would be anywhere near as good as a small box around the printer.  It may help as far as getting up to a normal room temperature in a cold basement, but is not going to get as hot as a small enclosure. I printed my Voron 2.4 parts on an anycubic mega with a box made out of a $15 sheet of foamboard insulation over the top of it.  Probably paid another $5 for the tape to hold it together.  Temps got up to and stayed around 50.  I repurposed the same pieces to insulate the Voron 1.8 and that one hovers around 65, but has touched 70.

I do think it would be good for fume mittigation.  After fiddling around with fans  ducts on the 2.4 (which cools the chamber), I came to the conclusion that it would be better to have the printer chamber sealed and then have a larger enclosure or fume hood around it with negative pressure to pull the fumes out.  I plan to build something, but the 2.4 is so friggin big (350mm build plate) that it will be cumbersome.  The greenhouse would be nice If I had more space.  It's a reasonable option though.  I kind of like the 250mm 1.8 more now.  It would fit in a resonably sized cabinet which could be vented to outside.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1165 on: February 26, 2022, 01:35:21 pm »
I was going to build an enclosure on my old workbench in the basement for all my printers.
it's cold down there so i need one.
probably with a heat source.

then i saw this.

https://www.amazon.com/Green-House-HC-4202-Greenhouse-Indoor-Shelves-Grow/dp/B01GDVVZY4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1Y8DCTDTWIA9P&keywords=green+house&qid=1645888424&sprefix=green+house%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-6



I think a properly hung heat lamp with those interlocking foam pads as the floor should do the trick.

bad idea, good idea?
I can't build an enclosure for just one printer for that price and i have the room.
Damn! THATíS an enclosure, my friend!

My Prusa should be here on Wednesday. Once I get it dialed in, imma start printing Voron parts.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1166 on: February 26, 2022, 07:20:31 pm »
Hi! I'm suddenly very interested in a 3d printer. Any suggestions? I would like to print things such as camera hot shoe mounts, lewd cookie cutters, microphone clips, cell phone stands... Likely nothing more than 10" in any one direction. I started looking at them but I honestly don't even know enough about it to make a decision. I make 3d models of stuff - is it as easy as converting to a proprietary format and then pushing a button (after what seems to be the scariest part, setting it up?)

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1167 on: February 27, 2022, 02:08:25 am »
I make 3d models of stuff - is it as easy as converting to a proprietary format and then pushing a button (after what seems to be the scariest part, setting it up?)
It's a little more complicated than that, but not much.   ;D

A slicer program (Cura, etc.) allows you to position/orient the model on the print bed, select temperatures for the nozzle and heated bed, and can add features like a raft, a brim, or supports if your model needs them. Once everything is set, the slicer program converts the settings, features, and 3d model into "g-code" that tells your specific plastic poopin' robot what temperatures to maintain, what path to follow, and when to extrude.

What software do you use for 3d modeling?  Can it save as/export to an STL file?

Likely nothing more than 10" in any one direction.
The larger the print bed, the harder it is to keep it flat and leveled.
- IIRC some systems and newer software have auto-leveling that can help with that . . . up to a point.

There are lots of printers with 200mm/7.8" print beds, if that is large enough for you.

lewd cookie cutters
:lol

If your current software doesn't handle this one, you can use Inkscape and OpenSCAD with this plugin to vectorize an image, export it to a DXF, and import the DXF into OpenSCAD.   ;D
- OpenSCAD
http://www.openscad.org/
- Inkscape
https://inkscape.org/en/
- Inkscape to OpenSCAD converter plugin
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:24808

Here's the step-by-step process I used for the Ikari Warriors dust washer here, the SNK logo on the LS-30 handles here and here, and the Data East logo handle for Howard in this thread.
- LMK if you have any questions.   :cheers:

Code: [Select]
Convert an image to DXF for OpenSCAD

1. Prep the image in MSPaint.

2. Open Inkscape.

3. File -- Document Properties (Shift+Ctrl+D)
==> Set document size, units = mm

4. View -- Zoom -- Page

5. File -- Import
==> Import image into inkscape

6. Select image (resizing arrows visible)

7. Path -- Trace Bitmap (Shift+Alt+B)
Adjust settings.  When preview looks good, click OK then close the "Trace Bitmap" window.

8. Select then delete the original image, leaving the traced path.

9. Clean up the path as desired.

10. Position and scale image
(Ctrl+Click+Drag Corner to maintain ratio _or_ enter the position/size info via the Inkscape toolbar)

11. Select everything (Ctrl+A) and ungroup all groups. (Ctrl+Shift+G)

12. Path -- Object to path (Ctrl+Shift+C)
==> Converts everything into paths.

13. Ungroup all groups again. (Ctrl+Shift+G)

14. Path -- Union

15. Open the layer window (Ctrl+Shift+L), create new layer, name the new layer. i.e. Layername

16. Cut/paste the paths onto the new layer.

17. Delete the old layer.

18. File -- Save

19. File -- Save as and select ďOpenSCAD DXF OutputĒ as the file type.

20. SCAD code
translate([X, Y, Z])
linear_extrude(height = 2, convexity = 10)
import(file = "Filename.dxf", layer="Layername");

   


Scott

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1168 on: February 27, 2022, 09:00:37 am »
Hi! I'm suddenly very interested in a 3d printer. Any suggestions? I would like to print things such as camera hot shoe mounts, lewd cookie cutters, microphone clips, cell phone stands... Likely nothing more than 10" in any one direction. I started looking at them but I honestly don't even know enough about it to make a decision. I make 3d models of stuff - is it as easy as converting to a proprietary format and then pushing a button (after what seems to be the scariest part, setting it up?)

Not a proprietary format.  3D models are usually STL files.  The "slicer" converts the STL file into g-code that tells the machine what to do.

Unless you have the money to spend on a Prusa (which will require less fiddling), I recommend starting out with an Ender brand.
I went with an Anycubic Mega S because it has two motors on the Z-axis and uses linear rods instead of wheels on v-channel extrusion.
The design is superior, but spare parts and available upgrades were limited compared to the Ender.  The Ender is the most popular therefore has a ton of third party parts available and the solution to any problem you might have has been addressed in a forum post that will turn up in an internet search.  I really like my Mega S and still use it for PLA prints, but for someone just starting out the Ender is probably the way to go.

The other good thing with the Prusa and Ender is that the default settings for them in the slicer software are pretty refined, so don't require as much fiddling.  You should be able to get really good prints with only adjusting the temperature and print speed.  (there are dozens of other settings)

Without an enclosure, you will pretty much be limited to PLA & PETG filament.  PLA+ has additives which make it a little more flexible (which makes it tougher).  It is easy to print, but both PLA and PLA+ can deform if left in a hot enough car.  It will work for everything you mentioned, but the microphone clip won't last as long as a store bought one.  It would work for the camera mount as long as any small threaded parts aren't 3D printed.  The thread will print fine, but will probably weaken and break off at some point.  The part should be designed to accommodate a bolt instead of relying on 3D printed threads.  Unless you are printing decorative things like figurines, I'd start out with PLA+ instead of regular PLA.  Just printing with PLA is fairly hassle free as long as you aren't using random cheap filament that clogs.

When you are ready to move up to PETG, you'll start getting into other variables.  The printer is capable of printing it in stock form, but the higher temperatures may degrade the PTFE tube inside the heatbreak of the hotend.  Have some spares and learn how to replace them.  You can upgrade to an all metal heatbreak, but then the printer may have problems printing PLA.  The PTFE tube is there to prevent the warmed filament from sticking when retracted.  PLA sometimes sticks to a metal heatbreak, causing a clog.

After you've become comfortable with PETG, you'll probably wan't to try more durable filaments like ABS or ASA.  An all metal heatbreak is required for these temperatures.  The printer also needs to be enclosed.  You may get away with something as simple as a cardboard box, but I made a box out of 1/2" insulated foamboard. These plastics were designed for injection molding and shrink as they cool.  If part of the object cools while another is still hot, it will warp.  A small breeze can cause a part to warp.  Long straight lines shrink more than shorter ones, so you might want to change the the infill pattern. The part cooling fan is usually turned off unless the enclosure is kept particularly warm.  Nitrogen Widget mentioned using a heat lamp to keep the print area warm enough to print ABS without an enclosure.  To get these filaments to print their best, you'll end up tinkering with all kinds of settings.  Lower the temperature so that overhangs and bridges print better and the layer adhesion isn't as strong, resulting in a weaker part.  Raise the temperature to get the layer adhesion strong and bridges and overhangs droop.  Parts have to be designed with these limits in mind.  There are a ton of variables and everything is a trade-off.  There are no perfect settings and you aren't going to get injection molded quality parts.  Keep your expectations in check and never forget that it's just a computer controlled hot glue gun.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 09:04:09 am by BadMouth »

eds1275

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1169 on: February 27, 2022, 09:42:54 am »
I model in blender mostly, I just checked and it does indeed export the STL format. If I were to print something bigger than my printer would allow, do the models glue together easily?

A little bunker made of insulation is a great idea!

nitrogen_widget

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1170 on: February 27, 2022, 10:05:08 am »
For a heated chamber I don't think it would be anywhere near as good as a small box around the printer.  It may help as far as getting up to a normal room temperature in a cold basement, but is not going to get as hot as a small enclosure. I printed my Voron 2.4 parts on an anycubic mega with a box made out of a $15 sheet of foamboard insulation over the top of it.  Probably paid another $5 for the tape to hold it together.  Temps got up to and stayed around 50.  I repurposed the same pieces to insulate the Voron 1.8 and that one hovers around 65, but has touched 70.

I do think it would be good for fume mittigation.  After fiddling around with fans  ducts on the 2.4 (which cools the chamber), I came to the conclusion that it would be better to have the printer chamber sealed and then have a larger enclosure or fume hood around it with negative pressure to pull the fumes out.  I plan to build something, but the 2.4 is so friggin big (350mm build plate) that it will be cumbersome.  The greenhouse would be nice If I had more space.  It's a reasonable option though.  I kind of like the 250mm 1.8 more now.  It would fit in a resonably sized cabinet which could be vented to outside.

I'll have 5 FDM printers.
one is a freebie for the kids to play with and PLA only.
but the mini's I do ABS with and need an enclosure.
if I want to ABS with my chiron i need an enclosure and that has a 400x400mm bed with 400 or 450 height. that's a big enclosure.

then my two resin printers.
one plastic room with a heater and small dehumidifier in the basement can keep my printers and filament warm and dry in a place that is only suitable a few months out of the yr.
i could easily vent fumes outside with a small vent at the top in spurts without losing much heat.

your notion of an enclosure in the enclosure makes me wonder if I can use thick plastic to create a secondary enclosure within the bigger one.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1171 on: February 27, 2022, 10:10:26 am »
I model in blender mostly, I just checked and it does indeed export the STL format. If I were to print something bigger than my printer would allow, do the models glue together easily?

A little bunker made of insulation is a great idea!

i know prusia slicer has an option to break models up so you can glue them together after.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1172 on: February 27, 2022, 10:30:27 am »
If I were to print something bigger than my printer would allow, do the models glue together easily?
You can glue flat surfaces, but sometimes it's easier to use alignment posts/holes for non-hollow parts or alignment blocks and safety wire (or zip ties) for thin hollow parts like in this 13" tall TARDIS doorbell cover remixed from a parametric OpenSCAD model found here on Thingiverse.

Click on photos for full-size view.



You can clearly see the split here, but it's very hard to see with normal lighting and viewing angles.





Interior view -- don't get your hopes up, this one isn't bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.   :lol



Closeup showing the alignment blocks and 0.032" safety wire.




Scott

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1173 on: February 27, 2022, 11:09:23 am »
If I were to print something bigger than my printer would allow, do the models glue together easily?
You can glue flat surfaces, but sometimes it's easier to use alignment posts/holes for non-hollow parts or alignment blocks and safety wire (or zip ties) for thin hollow parts like in this 13" tall TARDIS doorbell cover remixed from a parametric OpenSCAD model found here on Thingiverse.

Click on photos for full-size view.

[img width=500]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390281;image[img]

You can clearly see the split here, but it's very hard to see with normal lighting and viewing angles.

[img width=500]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390282;image[img]

[img width=500]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390283;image[img]

Interior view -- don't get your hopes up, this one isn't bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.   :lol

[img width=500]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390284;image[img]

Closeup showing the alignment blocks and 0.032" safety wire.

[img width=500]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390285;image[img]


Scott

i've looked into this and wood filler or a 3d pen are popular options for hiding the seam if you are planning to paint it.
i've seen people use bondo but i've used that on my car and wood getting painted and it's more annoying than the other options.

my chrion goes up to 17" high with prints.
though i've never printed anything that tall.
i've gone past the average printers build plate and i've loaded up my build plate to let it run for a few days.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1174 on: February 28, 2022, 01:06:38 am »
If I were to print something bigger than my printer would allow, do the models glue together easily?
You can glue flat surfaces, but sometimes it's easier to use alignment posts/holes for non-hollow parts or alignment blocks and safety wire (or zip ties) for thin hollow parts like in this 13" tall TARDIS doorbell cover remixed from a parametric OpenSCAD model found here on Thingiverse.

Click on photos for full-size view.



You can clearly see the split here, but it's very hard to see with normal lighting and viewing angles.





Interior view -- don't get your hopes up, this one isn't bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.   :lol



Closeup showing the alignment blocks and 0.032" safety wire.




Scott

This is awesome.

I love epoxies of different types for weird adhesion problems myself.

Combo of that/those and good alignment holes/posts...?
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1175 on: February 28, 2022, 03:17:01 am »
This is awesome.
Thanks.   ;D

Some print smoothing epoxy probably would have made it even better and hidden the seam, but I didn't want to try it for the first time on a big print like this one.   :scared



Combo of that/those and good alignment holes/posts...?
I thought those three alignment block pairs would be enough to keep everything perfectly aligned.   :embarassed:

If I ever make another, I might consider adding blocks in the front corners for small alignment holes and separately-printed posts so the layers are parallel with the long axis of the post for strength.
- The bottom of the lower blocks would be tapered like the fins under the alignment blocks so you can print the bottom half of the TARDIS with no supports.

One trick that I used for another print was to use a power drill to friction fit the posts and holes holding the parts together -- use the posts like drill bits.


Scott

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1176 on: February 28, 2022, 07:18:34 pm »
the reason i like ABS is because i can smooth prints with nail polish remover and a large steel coffee can.

The vyper arrived.
auto level is cool.
the cube xyz print came out almost perfect.
x & y were 20.02mm
Z was 20 mm.

I can live with that.
tossed a longer print on it to see how it comes out.

all my chiron stuff came in.
I decided to print the hot-end adaptor for the V6 volcano out of abs-like resin instead of filament.
this will hold the heatsink, cooling fan and the part cooling fan.
it just looks better, faster print and i don't have an enclosure right now to print ABS.

will it crumble from heat? IDK.
guess i'll find out. :)


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1177 on: March 01, 2022, 06:15:26 am »
I've used acetone to solvent weld and make slurries to patch non-printed things, but somehow never tried vapor smoothing.  Need to add that to my to-try list.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1178 on: March 01, 2022, 11:26:57 pm »


Gonna be a fun weekend!


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1179 on: March 02, 2022, 08:16:29 am »
Quote
Gonna be a fun weekend!

Is there a sex doll in that box?

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1180 on: March 02, 2022, 09:12:12 am »
I could have saved him a ton of money.  I already have one completely built mechanically and all the parts to finish I just have too many other things to do.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1181 on: March 02, 2022, 09:57:11 am »
Gonna be a fun weekend!

Congrats!  I'm sure you'll have fun with it.  When it's all together, let us know if it "just works" like they claim :)

I love the marketing around these things.  Two of my printers "just worked"... until they didn't anymore.  Finally fixed the Zortrax after being dead for two years with little clue as to what went south.  Turns out that the thing ate one of it's own wires deep inside of a protective sleeve where it couldn't be seen, after only around 150 hours.  But credit where credit is due, once I fixed the wire it's still making PERFECT parts.  The other (a little UP! unit), while not inexpensive and a small build volume, was always a trooper.  There's thousands of hours on it and many, many parts made.  Still works, but the heating element wires broke (can't re-attach with regular solder...it melts) and the nozzle/extruder tube is hopelessly plugged.  Nothing time and money won't fix, but I don't need it right now.

The other two, well, I don't like to think about them too much.  Let's just say you made a wise decision by purchasing a printer with a decent record of support and a vibrant community.  Clone printers from unknown Chinese companies should be avoided like the COOF.  I have a 50lb "red star" monster with a crazy build quality that I don't think I ever got a good print out of.  By time I finally reached out to the company to try to get it's brain upgraded enough to be usable, they had already moved on to different design without making any improvements to the firmware to make it usable.  It's a nice foundation for DIY and should be pretty amazing with enough tinkering, but for what it cost it should have done as well as the Zortrax.  I'll be attempting a brain transplant on that one soon, so wish me luck (I'll need it ).

Another clone (if you can really call it that...I'll lay money that even Crealitys are crapped out of the same Chinese factory) was a Labists.  Looked nice, easy to set up, but terrible problems.  Would often die in the middle of a print by either backing the filament all the way out for no reason or sitting in the middle of it's own giant glob of melted filth, while stuttering like it was having a seizure.  The extruder never seemed to get hot enough so it was constantly grinding filament, etc.  Upgraded the firmware, but still the same issues and no fix in sight from the company.   Finally re-built the hot-end with a cheap aftermarket for a different printer (even bought spares) and at least that part was finally doing it's job, but still had the random spazz-out.  But one day I made the mistake of trying to clear melted plastic from around the heater and saw some sparks and lost the display.  Not one of the half-dozen fuses on the mainboard blew, but the processor fried and was heating the regulator up way high.  Waiting now on a mainboard from an Anet (which is a virtually identical printer with an absolutely identical mainboard...outside of the firmware) to attempt a transplant/personality change.  I never considered that the touchscreen might have it's own firmware which may not be compatible.  Guess I'll find out when it gets here.

But in the meantime, I just got in a Creality Ender 3 V2 yesterday, which is waiting for me to put it together.  The bed sensor should arrive today.  This one gives me hope, due to the huge community, aftermarket support and decent company reputation.  Somehow, I get the feeling that it will soon be dashed, but that's just experience talking.

I have enough printers for a nice little farm, but at the moment it's more like a 3D printing slum.   My new year's resolution is to whip these things into submission, even it it kills me (it well may).

Thanks for letting me vent.  I feel better now  :laugh2:


« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 10:47:11 am by RandyT »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1182 on: March 02, 2022, 10:02:03 am »
Quote
Gonna be a fun weekend!

Is there a sex doll in that box?
Now I can print you a better quality one.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1183 on: March 02, 2022, 10:06:51 am »
Gonna be a fun weekend!

Congrats!  I'm sure you'll have fun with it.  When it's all together, let us know if it "just works" like they claim :)

I love the marketing around these things.  Two of my printers "just worked"... until they didn't anymore.  Finally fixed the Zortrax after being dead for two years with little clue as to what went south.  Turns out that the thing ate one of it's own wires deep inside of a protective sleeve where it couldn't be seen, after only around 150 hours.  But credit where credit is due, once I fixed the wire it's still making PERFECT parts.  The other (a little UP! unit), while not inexpensive and a small build volume, was always a trooper.  There's thousands of hours on it and many, many parts made.  Still works, but the heating element wires broke (can't re-attach with regular solder...it melts) and the nozzle/extruder tube is hopelessly plugged.  Nothing time and money won't fix, but I don't need it right now.

The other two, well, I don't like to think about them too much.  Let's just say you made a wise decision by purchasing a printer with a decent record of support and a vibrant community.  Clone printers from unknown Chinese companies should be avoided like the COOF.  I have a 50lb "red star" monster with a crazy build quality that I don't think I ever got a good print out of.  By time I finally reached out to the company to try to get it's brain upgraded enough to be usable, they had already moved on to different design without making any improvements to the firmware to make it usable.  It's a nice foundation for DIY and should be pretty amazing with enough tinkering, but for what it cost it should have done as well as the Zortrax.  I'll be attempting a brain transplant on that one soon, so wish me luck (I'll need it ).

Another clone (if you can really call it that...I'll lay money that even Crealitys are crapped out of the same Chinese factory) was a Labists.  Looked nice, easy to set up, but terrible problems.  Would often die in the middle of a print by either backing the filament all the way out for no reason or sitting in the middle of it's own giant glob of melted filth, while stuttering like it was having a seizure.  The extruder never seemed to get hot enough so it was constantly grinding filament, etc.  Upgraded the firmware, but still the same issues and no fix in sight from the company.   Finally re-built the hot-end with a cheap aftermarket for a different printer (even bought spares) and at least that part was finally doing it's job, but still had the random spazz-out.  But one day I made the mistake of trying to clear melted plastic from around the heater and saw some sparks and lost the display.  Not one of the half-dozen fuses on the mainboard blew, but the processor fried and was heating the regulator up way high.  Waiting now on a mainboard from an Anet (which is a virtually identical printer with an absolutely identical mainboard...outside of the firmware) to attempt a transplant/personality change.  I never considered that the touchscreen might have it's own firmware which may not be compatible.  Guess I'll find out when it gets here.

But in the meantime, I just got in a Creality Ender 3 V2 yesterday, which is waiting for me to put it together.  The bed sensor should arrive today.  This one gives me hope, due to the huge community, aftermarket support and decent company reputation.  Somehow, I get the feeling that it will soon be dashed, but that's just experience talking.

I have enough printers for a nice little farm, but at the moment it's more like a 3D printing slum.   My new year's resolution is to whip these things into submission, even it it kills me (it well may).

Thanks for letting rant.  I feel better now  :laugh2:
Yeah, I cut my teeth on my Anet A8, which initially got recommended here. Itís been a fun machine to tinker with. Last year converted into an aluminum frame, so now itís an AM8. Itís a solid little workhorse, but I want to be able to print some more exotic filaments, and I want a boost in quality/resolution, so I took the plunge.

I have a few friends who have Prusas, Including one who I consider quite printing guru. Sheís been a great resource for me over the last yearís, and I trust her opinion.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1184 on: March 02, 2022, 11:24:08 am »
Yeah, I cut my teeth on my Anet A8, which initially got recommended here. Itís been a fun machine to tinker with. Last year converted into an aluminum frame, so now itís an AM8. Itís a solid little workhorse, but I want to be able to print some more exotic filaments, and I want a boost in quality/resolution, so I took the plunge.

I have a few friends who have Prusas, Including one who I consider quite printing guru. Sheís been a great resource for me over the last yearís, and I trust her opinion.

Wild.  Didn't even know they made an acrylic one.  I'm sure it's much more stable now.  My monsters are welded steel enclosures and judging from the quality the Zortrax puts out, I think that extra stability makes a big difference in the output.  It's nice that your new machine has all the frills (bed leveling, all-metal hot-end, etc.)  They'll come in handy when you start playing with the tricky stuff.

With too many unfortunate exceptions, paying more usually gets better working and more reliable machines that tend to be around for the long haul.  Research and a brain to pick/shoulder to cry on can make all the difference in the world with these things.  Sounds like you have that covered.  I sure didn't when I started out and paid for it dearly :)

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1185 on: March 02, 2022, 11:31:30 am »
Yeah, I cut my teeth on my Anet A8, which initially got recommended here. Itís been a fun machine to tinker with. Last year converted into an aluminum frame, so now itís an AM8. Itís a solid little workhorse, but I want to be able to print some more exotic filaments, and I want a boost in quality/resolution, so I took the plunge.

I have a few friends who have Prusas, Including one who I consider quite printing guru. Sheís been a great resource for me over the last yearís, and I trust her opinion.

Wild.  Didn't even know they made an acrylic one.  I'm sure it's much more stable now.  My monsters are welded steel enclosures and judging from the quality the Zortrax puts out, I think that extra stability makes a big difference in the output.  It's nice that your new machine has all the frills (bed leveling, all-metal hot-end, etc.)  They'll come in handy when you start playing with the tricky stuff.

With too many unfortunate exceptions, paying more usually gets better working and more reliable machines that tend to be around for the long haul.  Research and a brain to pick/shoulder to cry on can make all the difference in the world with these things.  Sounds like you have that covered.  I sure didn't when I started out and paid for it dearly :)
Heh - Iíd say easily 60% The things I printed on my Anet were improvements or hacks for the original machine. Iíve spent a lot more than original $160 shipped I paid on Banggood for the original.

Once I built the Prusa, Iím donating this AM8 printer to my brother-in-law who is an engineer. Heís gonna learn how to prototype using it.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1186 on: March 02, 2022, 06:16:56 pm »


Gonna be a fun weekend!


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that's a serious printer.
direct drive
300C top end
auto leveling.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 06:31:38 pm by nitrogen_widget »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1187 on: March 03, 2022, 08:19:22 am »
I love the marketing around these things. 

I find it reminiscent of the car tuner thing in the early 2000's.
Young, mostly males, making consistent cheap "upgrades" to an entry level machine with dreams of making it into a high performance machine.
Plenty of companies willing to capitalize on it with cheap products that may or may not make much of a difference.

I can't rag on people too much, because I fall into the same trap because it is fun when an upgrade makes a difference.
Currently looking at my Anycubic Mega thinking about how most of the problems I've had are related to the extruder....a new dual gear one can be had on Ali-Express for $8....$8 and a ton of my time to fiddle with the firmware to account for gearing changes....

But one day I made the mistake of trying to clear melted plastic from around the heater and saw some sparks and lost the display.  Not one of the half-dozen fuses on the mainboard blew, but the processor fried and was heating the regulator up way high.  Waiting now on a mainboard from an Anet (which is a virtually identical printer with an absolutely identical mainboard...outside of the firmware) to attempt a transplant/personality change.  I never considered that the touchscreen might have it's own firmware which may not be compatible.  Guess I'll find out when it gets here.

That's how I killed my first 3D printer, a Monoprice MP Mini Select.  I touched the wires with an adjustable wrench while trying to hold the heat block to tighten the nozzle.
 :cheers:

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1188 on: March 07, 2022, 09:27:05 pm »
So which one of you can I talk into making an STL for me?  Hereís some crude mock-ups on cardboard.  The idea is to fit a SEGA genesis PCB into an EA case.  Why?  Because I have a stack of EA Sports games and the flash cartridges arenít compatible with the EA hole pattern. 

I think with some slight trimming of the original case, this adapter, some epoxy to affix it to the case, and two new screw holes through the back, it could be made to work.

Some quick and dirty photosÖ.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1189 on: March 07, 2022, 11:52:34 pm »
So which one of you can I talk into making an STL for me?  Hereís some crude mock-ups on cardboard.
Assuming that the adapter is just a flat plate, it looks pretty straight-forward -- a cube for the adapter body minus two screw hole cylinders, a cube for the upper right corner notch, and a notch on the bottom.

  I'll need the following measurements in mm:
BodyX
BodyY
BodyZ

ScrewHoleDiameter
ScrewHole1X (X-offset from lower left corner)
ScrewHole1Y (Y-offset from lower left corner)
ScrewHole2X (X-offset from lower right corner)
ScrewHole2Y (Y-offset from lower right corner)

TopNotchX
TopNotchY

LowerNotchShortX (top of the notch)
LowerNotchLongX (bottom of the notch)
LowerNotchY

I think with some slight trimming of the original case, this adapter, some epoxy to affix it to the case, and two new screw holes through the back, it could be made to work.
Are you planning to epoxy the adapter to the front of the case, the back of the case, or both?
- I assume the back so it's easier to work on.

How/where are you going to fasten the screws going through the new screw holes?
- A nut on the front side of the adapter plate? (easy)
- A nut trapped in the adapter plate? (harder)
- Screw into the filament of the adapter plate? (more likely to fail)

Will the adapter, epoxy, and screws keep the PCB properly aligned and handle the mechanical stresses of multiple insertions and removals of the cart from the console?


Scott

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1190 on: March 08, 2022, 12:30:33 am »
Hm.  Good things to consider.  Plate will definitely have to be glued to the front cover because screws will run from the outside of the case into the plate to hold it all together.  New holes will have to be drilled in the back cover.

Cartridge pcb will need to sit on posts sticking out from the plate.

Maybe worth taking a looking at these models?





https://www.hdretrovision.com/s/GEN-CART-SHELL.zip





http://www.mrdictionary.net/gameraccoon/revision1/GAMERACCOON_Revision1_gerbers_2020-02-14.zip



« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 01:13:08 am by pbj »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1191 on: March 08, 2022, 03:50:29 am »
Plate will definitely have to be glued to the front cover because screws will run from the outside of the case into the plate to hold it all together.
Are you sure about that?

New holes will have to be drilled in the back cover.

Cartridge pcb will need to sit on posts sticking out from the plate.
Agreed.

How about something like this?

1. Make a printed drilling jig that fits snugly over the old mounting posts and lets you drill the new holes for the back cover in the correct position.
- Will the screw heads and washers be clear of the cart slot if you drill the new holes aligned with the new PCB holes or do we need to move the new holes for mounting the back cover to the adapter plate further up and make separate screw holes on the adapter plate (countersunk on the back) for mounting the PCB to the adapter plate?  Both options shown below.

2. Make an adapter plate similar to your prototype or modified as mentioned above.
- Include short alignment posts for the PCB holes.
- Use #4-40 or M3 screws/washers/insulated washers for the PCB/nuts to connect the back cover, adapter plate, and PCB.
- Shouldn't need epoxy or the front cover to mount these three parts to each other.

3. Trim the part of the old mounting posts that poked through the old PCB.
- Do the old mounting posts run into any components on the new PCB?  If so, you'll need to trim them accordingly.

4. Use the top screws to hold the front and back covers together.
- For additional support, squeeze the front and back covers together when you insert/remove the cart.

Maybe worth taking a looking at these models?
Someone might be able to remix the cart shell parts, but how well will the finish and strength of a 3d printed shell compare to the injection molded originals.   ::)


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1192 on: March 08, 2022, 10:35:16 am »
1 - the Sega PCB holes are higher than the EA PCB holes, so any new drilled holes will clear the cartridge slot.

2 - That gets the parts mounted to each other, but doesn't hold the front cover on.

3 - Old mounting posts will have to be trimmed slightly.  They sit lower than the sega posts and fit through the EA pcbs.  You can't close the cartridge shell with a sega PCB in there.

4 - There aren't "top screws" on an EA shell (or sega shell).  Both shells use two screws through the back, through the PCB, and into standoffs molded into the front piece.

Can I just mail you two different carts and you take a look?



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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1193 on: March 08, 2022, 07:03:08 pm »
1 - the Sega PCB holes are higher than the EA PCB holes, so any new drilled holes will clear the cartridge slot.
The old screws are in a recess, but the new screws would stick out.

   |
   |S  - New screw head (not recessed) for a Sega PCB in an EA cart
   |
---
|S  - Old screw head (recessed) for an EA PCB in an EA cart
---
   |

Based on front-view pictures showing a cart installed in the console, it looks like the Sega PCB screws might be below the top lip of the cart slot, but I didn't find any back-view pictures to confirm.
- Please check this by putting a Sega PCB cart in the console slot to verify the Z-axis positioning of the screw holes relative to the top lip of the cart slot.

2 - That gets the parts mounted to each other, but doesn't hold the front cover on.
 . . .
4 - There aren't "top screws" on an EA shell (or sega shell).  Both shells use two screws through the back, through the PCB, and into standoffs molded into the front piece.
Oops.  I confused the top alignment posts in your pics with screw posts   :embarassed:

It would be easy to add a screw hole high-center on the back cover and epoxy a printed block with a nut trap onto the front cover.

That should hold the front and back covers together well enough, right?

Can I just mail you two different carts and you take a look?
That would be very useful, assuming we can come up with a viable plan for the screws on this cart mod.   :cheers:
- Please slap a piece of tape on the back of the EA cart with a line showing where the top lip of the cart slot is.
- If possible send two EA and two Sega PCB carts so I can do a side-by-side comparison of an original Sega cart and and the modded EA cart with the donor Sega PCB.  The second EA cart would be for the off-chance that I make a mistake during the mod design/fitting process.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1194 on: March 08, 2022, 07:23:03 pm »
I will make it so.  Iím sitting on a box of 44 genesis cartridges.  PM me your address.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1195 on: March 08, 2022, 08:30:15 pm »
PM sent.   ;D

Before you ship anything, let's double-check how much vertical space there is on the back cover for screws.
- No sense shipping the carts if there isn't enough vertical clearance to do this mod.

Can you take a back-view pic of a Sega PCB cart in the console slot so we can see the positioning of the screw holes relative to the top lip of the cart slot?


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1196 on: March 08, 2022, 08:30:40 pm »
1 - the Sega PCB holes are higher than the EA PCB holes, so any new drilled holes will clear the cartridge slot.

2 - That gets the parts mounted to each other, but doesn't hold the front cover on.

3 - Old mounting posts will have to be trimmed slightly.  They sit lower than the sega posts and fit through the EA pcbs.  You can't close the cartridge shell with a sega PCB in there.

4 - There aren't "top screws" on an EA shell (or sega shell).  Both shells use two screws through the back, through the PCB, and into standoffs molded into the front piece.

No need to over-engineer a solution for this.  Just find the appropriate sized "Binding barrel and screw" with a barrel long enough to pass through what should be the 1/4" holes(?) but shorter than the space inside and a diameter without much slop.  Two of these with the holes drilled in the proper places on the cart will hold the cartridge together, keep the board centered (it's sandwiched between the halves and/or trimmed bosses) and lock it from moving vertically in the shell.  You can also take it back apart easily to change your battery if you have one.

Personally, I have some pretty nasty hi-temp glue for a glue gun I would likely have taken to it.  The bond would outlast the electronics :)


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1197 on: March 09, 2022, 04:21:16 am »
Hm, yeah that would definitely work.  I was trying to avoid putting holes in the front, but it would need a new label anyway.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1198 on: March 09, 2022, 09:52:50 am »
Hm, yeah that would definitely work.  I was trying to avoid putting holes in the front, but it would need a new label anyway.

Along the same idea, you could use a couple of blind rivet nuts and some JB Weld epoxy.  Rough up the plastic a little first and it'd probably be just as strong with no holes in the front.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1199 on: March 09, 2022, 11:36:13 am »
I took a bunch of photos this morning but give up on fighting the forum and its security checks. 

Basically, the EA screws are 10mm lower than the Sega screws, so it won't be an issue drilling new holes in the EA shells, as the new screws will sit above the cartridge slot.

Drilling holes in the front will mean that a 6mm has to be made in the lower right of the artwork.  The other hole will be on black plastic.  The binding screw idea is growing on me.  Possibly JB Welding it in place.