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Author Topic: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing  (Read 281612 times)

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brandon

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1280 on: November 29, 2024, 11:32:07 pm »
...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 11:34:06 pm by brandon »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1281 on: November 29, 2024, 11:33:00 pm »
I've been using a Quest 2 with Virtual Desktop and a wifi 5 router with zero issues.  I love the freedom of being able to walk around my entire house and section off an area as a play space.. even my garage.  I'm not sure i could ever go back to a wired experience unless it was dedicated to a SIM rig of some sort.  I do have a Samsung Odyssey collecting dust that i could use for that but i haven't.  I feel like my only upgrade path is the Quest 3 until something better comes along.  I think I'll wait to see what Valve comes out with. I'd love to see a hybrid VR hmd / Handheld.. basically a Steam Deck that could strap on your face. It would have to be much lighter and probably ARM based. Pimax made one already i think

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1282 on: November 30, 2024, 12:00:44 am »
I wish that I could get into this stuff but I have had enough trouble dealing with actual reality for a while now as it is.
It does seem really cool though.

It is very, very difficult for me to be relaxed enough to enjoy VR.  Anything with humans or humanoids trying to kill me is 100% out of the question.  I can appreciate Resident Evil and Far Scape on a technical level, but cannibals eating me or Martian spiders ripping my face off are things I don’t need to experience again.  Astro Bot is great and I’ve nearly finished it.  Trevor Destroys the Universe is a little too much “pine cones up my butthole” humor but was interesting.  Another one I need to finish.




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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1283 on: November 30, 2024, 10:26:16 am »
Quote
I've been using a Quest 2 with Virtual Desktop and a wifi 5 router with zero issues.  I love the freedom of being able to walk around my entire house and section off an area as a play space.. even my garage.  I'm not sure i could ever go back to a wired experience unless it was dedicated to a SIM rig of some sort.  I do have a Samsung Odyssey collecting dust that i could use for that but i haven't.  I feel like my only upgrade path is the Quest 3 until something better comes along.  I think I'll wait to see what Valve comes out with. I'd love to see a hybrid VR hmd / Handheld.. basically a Steam Deck that could strap on your face. It would have to be much lighter and probably ARM based. Pimax made one already i think

Quest 3 was a pretty big upgrade from Quest 2. I never really liked Quest 2, I understood what they were trying to do but the overall experience was not up to my satisfaction. Quest 3 works on almost every level. Look how cheap it is now on black friday for like $435 you can buy the quest 3 and all the necessary accessories.




Meta Quest 3 128GB $380




https://www.amazon.com/Meta-Quest-128GB-Breakthrough-Performance-Oculus/dp/B0D5H6WRPH?crid=1121VA3HI6XLC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.de7ePe6YDLUDHa5QxyRe1Q1IZUhAh4tjn_UI0vm6xRLEQTwPd11NDAl8VQd0Wbq9gACVH-CfuagOp-5huXwkWNw4Mb_fuKeTPP7lYCnNiILiW0ryKFN9vqYpVhVeanumMeqhTBX2L-AtgX_9bQIkkQ2cSJlCLAAvno1uXmV5tRnF1WlI9p_tQTU-AgAP5luPShHGi4soJowiLPLqEU4d2LEEeOvQtH-dIhK1mtoS_cM.SyYzkFXsPKaC_7sUDCCGw2Zh0BjcIY76TZRHB2BGl9g&dib_tag=se&keywords=quest+3&qid=1732979468&sprefix=quest+%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-4






KIWI designHeadstrap $20


https://www.amazon.com/KIWI-design-Comfort-Strap-Accessories/dp/B0D3TGPT5F?crid=1121VA3HI6XLC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.de7ePe6YDLUDHa5QxyRe1Q1IZUhAh4tjn_UI0vm6xRLEQTwPd11NDAl8VQd0Wbq9gACVH-CfuagOp-5huXwkWNw4Mb_fuKeTPP7lYCnNiILiW0ryKFN9vqYpVhVeanumMeqhTBX2L-AtgX_9bQIkkQ2cSJlCLAAvno1uXmV5tRnF1WlI9p_tQTU-AgAP5luPShHGi4soJowiLPLqEU4d2LEEeOvQtH-dIhK1mtoS_cM.SyYzkFXsPKaC_7sUDCCGw2Zh0BjcIY76TZRHB2BGl9g&dib_tag=se&keywords=quest+3&qid=1732979468&sprefix=quest+%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-8

VR Controller Grips Cover $14

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CH4MSTBT?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title





Oculus Link Cable with Charging 16ft $20. Even if you go wireless it is a nice cable for charging, set it up so you can sit at your computer desk, have the cable hung and still have the headset charge while using it. Transfer data to your computer like video or photos.

https://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Cable-Charging-Charger-Headset-Accessories/dp/B0BRQMFDQ3?crid=1121VA3HI6XLC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.de7ePe6YDLUDHa5QxyRe1Q1IZUhAh4tjn_UI0vm6xRLEQTwPd11NDAl8VQd0Wbq9gACVH-CfuagOp-5huXwkWNw4Mb_fuKeTPP7lYCnNiILiW0ryKFN9vqYpVhVeanumMeqhTBX2L-AtgX_9bQIkkQ2cSJlCLAAvno1uXmV5tRnF1WlI9p_tQTU-AgAP5luPShHGi4soJowiLPLqEU4d2LEEeOvQtH-dIhK1mtoS_cM.SyYzkFXsPKaC_7sUDCCGw2Zh0BjcIY76TZRHB2BGl9g&dib_tag=se&keywords=quest+3&qid=1732979468&sprefix=quest+%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-6


pbj

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1284 on: November 30, 2024, 11:34:08 am »
But PC connection opens up tons more gaming possibilities.  Didn't you say you had a go fast GPU at one point?  Which one?  A 2080 would be enough to get you going, and it already has the plug and play port for the headset.  With one of those, you would just need a compatible BT dongle and the free software from Steam.

GeForce RTX 3090.  Had to boot it up and look that up.  The only thing I use it for is browsing eBay and testing ROMs before I burn them.


RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1285 on: November 30, 2024, 09:33:38 pm »
GeForce RTX 3090.  Had to boot it up and look that up.  The only thing I use it for is browsing eBay and testing ROMs before I burn them.

Lol.  Wanna sell it super cheap? :)

Seriously, that's a really nice card and there is still a good amount of life left in it.  Plenty of grunt for VR and ~90% of pancake games on max settings. I'm able to run a lot of games at 4k60 on mine without too much trouble. While not VR, Portal RTX was a pretty decent experience on the 3090 as well.  The 24gigs of VRAM is icing on the cake for local AI apps of all sorts.  It's a very sought after GPU in that crowd now that it's clear that simultaneously GPU prices won't be going down and VRAM won't be going up any time soon.

If you liked the PSVR, the PSVR2 blows it away on every level, except for maybe the edge-to-edge clarity due to the fresnel lenses.  I think they took this route to provide a wider FOV, as the original PSVR was pretty unimpressive in that department, and it probably couldn't be done with the type of lenses used on that unit.  I think you would like the PSVR2 with that GPU at your disposal, but you would need the adapter and $10 BT dongle.  Either way, the controller tracking will be a huge step up no matter which one you decide on.  Just factor in the cost of the Quest add-ons as well if you go that route.  From what I hear, most of them really aren't all that optional if you plan to use it often and/or with a PC.

The compute power is impressive with the Quest 3 unlike the Quest 2. Seeing how they are not investing in PC dedicated only titles like Half Life Alex anymore, having a dedicated PC VR headset is just a waste of potential at this point. PC wireless works pretty good, better then you would expect. Steam came out with their own wireless software called Steam link for free just because they are always investing in VR and it works pretty good even on my 5.2 router.

I still have steam base stations in my room, after the Quest 3 came out I realized they are now obsolete, they will never make a new headset that needs base stations anymore.

I would like OLED but I also want them to get rid of the other issues with it.

Quest headsets and their platform\operating system\store front  is the future and the PSVR is antiquated and there will be no future development for it.


I still have the base stations setup in my room as well.  We don't really know exactly what Valve has planned for their next gen, but any current controller/tracker which works with them can still be used.  Inside out tracking is really good now, but there's something almost magical about the absolute real-time precision you can get from the base stations.  It would be a shame if it became deprecated tech and newcomers were never able to experience it.  Games like Pistol Whip are still better with that technology.

OLED, despite any technical shortcomings, is still vastly superior tech, especially for VR.   Any self-respecting videophile has long ago transitioned to OLED displays and they are quickly becoming the high-end norm for handheld gaming.  LCD's are cheap and it's really the only reason they keep trying to make them look better without making them cost as much as an OLED.  The manufacturing advantage for using OLED in VR is, of course, they can be really small, so not super costly once they are tooled up.  But they will likely always be more expensive than a similarly sized LCD panel.   Now, if they manage to make a tiny micro-led backlight to tune the light to only the areas needing it, that might get them really close.  I just can't see that happening

And on that last part, assuming you mean PSVR2, you can't possibly think that a number of 3rd party games made available for the Quest won't also be able to be played on the PSVR2 through Steam, do you?  And very likely, in much better quality.  It also discounts the availability of UEVR for making older Unreal Engine 4 games playable in VR, which opens up a massive library of fully-fledged PC games.  I'd be very surprised if this work didn't continue to also do the same for UE5 at some point down the road.  I also expect that Valve's next headset will be a hybrid with X86 "Steamdeck-like" hardware on board, so this will likely be the top-end target platform for stand-alone VR, rather than a strictly mobile platform.  This also means that those games will work very comfortably on a modest PC VR setup, with little or no changes.  I could, of course, be wrong, but this is what *I* see as the future :)  Now, it won't be as cheap as a Quest, but I'm sure developers will be happy to grind down their assets to make the games usable on one.

BTW, 128gb is a paltry amount of storage for any real quantity of games at the resolutions being used in modern VR headsets, unless the assets are very simple or highly compressed, thereby negating the resolution advantage.  Going forward, I think anything less than 512gb of fixed storage would be an absolute minimum requirement for usability and longevity of the device.  Even the absolute base Steamdeck is now 256gb.

brandon

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1286 on: November 30, 2024, 09:42:16 pm »
Meta could've added an SD card slot to the Quest 3.  It would've made the 128gb unit more appealing.  I guess maybe they were afraid of performance if people used slow memory cards.  I primarily play PCVR so 128gb would probably be enough for me
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 03:06:50 pm by brandon »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1287 on: December 02, 2024, 10:15:09 am »
Meta could've added an SD card slot to the Quest 3.  It would've made the 128gb unit more appealing.  I guess maybe they were afraid of performance of people used slow memory cards.  I primarily play PCVR so 128gb would probably be enough for me

The reason that there is no SD card on the Quests is very likely the same reason there is none on new cell phones.  Some say it is profit driven, but there are technical reasons for it.  Just including the option supposedly bottlenecks the system in some way, so to improve the user experience, e.g. performance, they started doing away with them.  Think of something like the PS5 console, where assets need to be pulled into the game at near real-time in order to avoid loading screens and the like.  Anything which relied on this type of functionality would be abysmal, even with a fast SD card.

brandon

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1288 on: December 03, 2024, 03:51:53 pm »
That makes sense.  It would still be nice if phones had an SD slot for media storage only. I'm sure there's a way the OS could prevent apps from installing on the SD so there be no issue with performance.  I still think it might be a little bit profit driven. How else are they going to sell me cloud storage? 😎

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1289 on: December 03, 2024, 05:30:05 pm »
They always offer bigger storage options but for the next one up is usually $100 if not more bare minimum. Especially apples, they have always pulled that carp. You want 64 instead of 32 that will be $150 more. You want 512? Well…afraid we are going to need your first born.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1290 on: December 03, 2024, 07:13:45 pm »
They always offer bigger storage options but for the next one up is usually $100 if not more bare minimum. Especially apples, they have always pulled that carp. You want 64 instead of 32 that will be $150 more. You want 512? Well…afraid we are going to need your first born.

To be fair, cell phones use NAND storage and in the early days, that stuff was expensive.  I also expect that less people bought the higher dollar models, so any extra manufacturing costs to provide them needed to amortized over a fewer number of purchasers.  But I'm sure cell phone makers add their own "luxury tax", because those people can afford it and they can't upgrade it themselves.   

I compare it to VRAM on a GPU.  There are basically only 2 classes of hardware on a GPU which have value.  The GPU processor and the VRAM.  An increase in either of those costs bigly.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 11:00:43 pm by RandyT »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1291 on: December 03, 2024, 10:11:17 pm »
Linus made a video on this price gouging pratice before.


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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1292 on: December 04, 2024, 12:07:30 am »
Just watched it.  He goes into very good reasons as to why the memory is soldered, but then disregards those same reasons where storage is concerned.  While you may not need super fast storage for storing photos of your kid's birthday party, if you want to do anything which requires data of the amount larger than your RAM (minus  the operating system and ton of background processes running), then you need to be able to access it as fast as you are using it out of RAM.  And while he says you can just stick in a PCIE NVME, you aren't going to do that on a small device and they come in many different speeds.  Will the consumer buy the cheapest one and get something so slow that it results in a poor reflection on the company/product or a call to support?  Probably.  Fortunately, where the PS5 is concerned, most console players are tech kids who do their research, and even if they aren't, Sony has code in place to test the speed of add-on storage and warns you if it isn't "up to spec".

The video also focuses heavily on Apple.  Apple computers are designed for users, not enthusiasts.  I'd garner a guess that 90%+ of Apple users wouldn't dream of popping open their own hardware to try to upgrade it.  It's also easy for him to just say "Increase the base system specs and don't make as much profit for shareholders", but Apple consumers pay the asking price, so they would be stupid to do so.  Just putting out a video like this changes nothing.  Only consumers can effect this kind of change.

And then there is the multiple tier product offerings.  Again, it's easy to say offer more (and charge more), but Apple doesn't operate only in the West and many of our local brethren also don't have deep pockets.  They would rather you buy the tier you can afford than buy something else.  But producing and stocking of those different tiers is a costly endeavor.  As I stated, though, if you are buying Apple and need the capabilities of the higher tiers, you are probably already part of the "cult" (<= used in the kindest way possible) and can afford it.  Of course they will be happy to take more of the money you have already demonstrated that you don't care about. :)

That's not to say that Apple doesn't have some interesting technology.  One of the things some models do very well, again thanks to things like unified system memory (soldered onto device) is AI applications.  AI needs fast access to massive datasets, which is why they are typically relegated to VRAM and processed locally to the GPU.  I.e. that data travels over the much slower PCIE bus only once when it is loaded onto the GPU and iterated over 1000's of times by the GPU's processor.  With unified memory, there's no distinction between System RAM or graphics RAM.  It's all very fast, with a large bus width, so the main processor has similar access to it as the GPU does to VRAM.  Now the processors aren't as fast as the GPU for those kinds of tasks, but running local LLM's on a laptop is actually a thing with those, and with fairly acceptable speed.

This has gone a bit into wonky territory, but the technical details are important for certain tasks.  It's very superficial to just yell "Greed!" and there is an element of that.  It's just not as big a factor as most probably think.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1293 on: December 04, 2024, 09:38:20 am »
Back to the VR Topic:

Because the latest version of PinballFX has been re-coded in Unreal Engine 4, ALL 100+ tables are supposedly perfectly playable in VR with UEVR!  About 30 of which are some of the most popular Williams tables.


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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1294 on: December 04, 2024, 12:23:19 pm »
I actually have pinball FX2 on steam last played Oct 7 2019, should see if I can get it running again. I think I did try to play it with the HP Reverb G2 though mixed reality software and I could not get it to work.

I picked up Miracle pool for the quest because it was 40% off back friday. I played the mixed reality version where the pool table sits in your room. It is pretty impressive, it would be nice to hold an actual stick and have an actual table to put your hands on but the way the way the balls interact on the table, the amount of power you hit the Q ball, weather you hit the Q ball higher or lower is all 100% accurate to real life.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1295 on: December 04, 2024, 01:42:16 pm »
The pool game sounds neat.  There are some bar games for VR in Steam which are supposedly decent, but I haven't played to any extent.

But on the Pinball, there are a couple of things:  Pinball FX is the latest version and all tables need to be purchased anew (bleah).  But right now all tables are on sale, and any tables you already purchased for PFX3 gets you an additional 50% off the sale price.  They actually had some select tables for VR under the Pinball FX2 VR name.  It was pretty good, but was very limited in selection of tables.  There were no commercial re-creations in VR.   The regular PFX2 never had any VR support.  But UEVR opens the entire new library to VR, and quite likely in a way which is better than the native VR support in PFX2 VR.  I'll be checking it out when I find the time.  Playing the Williams tables in VR should be a treat.
'
On a side note, I had some issues with PFX VR2 with the Mixed Reality headsets as well.  What I found was that I had to look up while re-centering the output, in order to fool it into putting my head at the proper height.  Not sure if that was your issue, but it's something to try if you run across that problem.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1296 on: December 04, 2024, 06:58:10 pm »
The bitcoin millionaire and the "sold 10,000 joysticks to NASA" guy are in here acting poor.   ::)

 Anyway, I couldn't get the Meta Quest 3S with the $100 gift card thing to go through so I'm out.  Maybe next year.  Black Friday week/month was kinda soft this year, to be honest.  That's usually when I buy a stack of $10 video games, never open them, and eventually mail them to Malenko.  Only thing I grabbed was Elden Ring and some rat in the first cave keeps raping me so that was probably a bad purchase.

 :cheers:



 

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1297 on: December 05, 2024, 10:10:23 am »
..."sold 10,000 joysticks to NASA"

Pfffft...I wish I had that kind of luck.  Every day is a challenge at this point, just as with most every other person nowadays.  Was asked very early on to accept bitcoin as payment for an order back when it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on and refused.   I try not to think about it...too much.

Sorry to hear you missed out on the deal.  Might be a blessing though.  At least now you'll have the chance to possibly play with either or both of the units in-person somewhere, and get a better feel for what they offer.  I don't think it will be the last time they are offered at those prices.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1298 on: December 05, 2024, 01:35:15 pm »
Getting close to 1.5 mil net worth but it is not from bitcoin it is from 10 years of S&P 500 ETF investing and only purchasing good deals and a paid off house. I did make 10k off of bitcoin but that was after 2 years of holding onto it less than what I paid for it and then sold it all earlier this year. If I kept it I could have made another 10k at this point but sometimes you need to just get in and get out with your profit.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1299 on: December 05, 2024, 03:09:31 pm »
Ow sht speaking of PC VR we finally got a contender. Behemoth dropped from the makers of Walking Dead saints and Sinners, which is one of my favorite VR game/world by the way. It looks gorgeous and the PC version looks better than the Quest version. Looks like there is cross buy so I can get the PC version on the meta store and the Quest 3 version at the same time.


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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1300 on: December 05, 2024, 04:10:14 pm »
That looks absolutely nuts.  I can only imagine what the behemoth would look like in VR.  I wish they would re-do Farpoint for the PC or even PSVR2.  Fighting alien spiders the size of a building is one of those things you don't forget when in VR.  I wish there was more focus on humongous opponents in titles.  That feeling of being "Jack" against a giant is awe-inspiring.  Even with the original PSVR's klunky controls, it showed just how visceral VR could make an experience.

Pancake game = "Meh.  Giant spider..."
VR = "Holy s^&*! how big are these f@%&#%$ spiders going to get?!?  And I'm supposed to kill that thing?"

:)

*edit*  Just noticed that Behemoth is also available for PSVR2 on the PS5, but I think the PC version might look better.  It says it supports all the fancy feedback stuff as well.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2024, 10:29:39 pm by RandyT »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1301 on: December 05, 2024, 06:18:24 pm »
Uhm.  Wow.


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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1302 on: December 07, 2024, 12:43:49 am »
Behemoth is pretty sweet, I think the controls are very similar to Walking Dead which I like. They actually seem a little more refined. Walking dead is the only free locomotion game I was able to get used to without feeling like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- because the game revolves around moving slowly, you can dash but it takes your stamina. You can throw knives and there is a lock on feature which I don't really like because it feels cheap, I wish they could copy the way you throw weapons like in Dungeons of Eternity. The sword fighting feels pretty good, the way you can block and attack. If you hit the A button you flip your knife or sword around in your hand which is the same feature they had in Walking Dead. They also added this dash that kind of acts like a jump which they did not have in Walking Dead. In Walking Dead you could either climb up it or no.

I am having a problem if I use the link cable the graphics are degraded, all the objects have wavy lines. If I use Virtual Desktop the graphics become clean but then I end up dropping frames when I am looking around. I am not sure what to do. I noticed the same issues with Walking Dead when I first got the Quest 3.