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Author Topic: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?  (Read 605 times)

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68hc11

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Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« on: November 24, 2016, 11:03:01 pm »
Friend has a Need for Speed Cabinet with a dead PC.   Is there some what to replace the software in the PC or upgrade it?

I'd love to make it multi game driver (Daytona/Grid/TrackMasters etc....)

I've got 3 weeks (needs to be ready for Christmas).

I'm torn about gutting the monitor for a Flatscreen (and hacking the cabinet/monitor cowl).

I would love to keep the original FFB steering if possible.

All pointers appreciated.  I've worked on coin op stuff for years and not adverse to hacking but I need to avoid going down the rabbit hole as this need to be ready in a few weeks and needs to be non-techie friendly for playing.

Thanks,
mowerman

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2016, 07:05:25 am »
Just fix or replace the PC in there and get it running F&F if you have a 3 week deadline.

Time will be against you trying to multigame that cab. You will run into issues finding pieces and parts, shipping, etc.

BadMouth

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2016, 08:12:34 am »
Search this subforum for "immersion board"

Depends on which need for speed game, but some of them used an Immersion USB interface board.   
There is a thread on here with the windows drivers for it attached.  (on tapatalk, so not easy for me to link)

It's pretty much plug and play, but setting up software for a driving cab takes time and some games will need more buttons or gears than the NFS cab currently has.  As I've said repeatedly, it's not like a joystick cab where you install the software and can suddenly play thousands of games.  It's more like you spend hours getting an emulator to work with your controls, then spend another half hour on each game getting the controls to work and tweaking it(sensitivity, ffb settings, joystick saturation) to get it to feel right.

In the end, you'll end up with 60-70 playable arcade games if you have a solid PC.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 08:18:39 am by BadMouth »

68hc11

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2016, 12:34:46 pm »
Thanks for the advice!

I agree, if I could get something from the Need for Speed category running that would be easiest then work on adding other games.

I have tried to rebuild the PC in there & install from the CD but with no luck.

The dongle is in there but it just doesn't boot fully into the game.

The cabinet was fully functional until the PC died so I plan to use the FFB system that is in there (Immersion)

A previous repair replaced the Video card with a similar card.  I don't think that is the issue but I don't know what is preventing the re-installation.

I don't mind replacing the PC with an I5 system to support other games.

Is there software available to run multiple Need for Speed (or any?) games that I can actually get to run?  (any help with this point appreciated).

Thanks again!

mowerman

68hc11

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2016, 11:32:25 am »
I've gotten Supermodel R502 running Daytona 2 PE now to drop it in the NFS cabinet.

I've got the immersion board info and will work on that but I'm confused by the Nytric board.  This is cabled to a good bit of the original NFS cabinet.

Are there drivers for the Nytric board and how can I make them interface with Supermodel or other software?

My graphics card Asus 610 doesn't like to stay in 800x600 mode when booting in the NFS cabinet.  Is there some work around for this?

Thanks in advance.

Mowerman

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2016, 03:16:48 pm »
I've got the immersion board info and will work on that but I'm confused by the Nytric board.  This is cabled to a good bit of the original NFS cabinet.

Are there drivers for the Nytric board and how can I make them interface with Supermodel or other software?

Not that I'm aware of, but I've never messed around with one.
It sounds like you've got a newer I/O board than the Immersion one.
A pic would be helpful...or at least tell us which NFS game we're talking about.

If it's not an immersion board you're in uncharted territory.
All you can do is hook it up to a PC and see what it does.
With generic windows drivers, my guess would be that it shows up as a generic joystick and works, but no ffb.

There is a slight chance the drivers still might work.
A lot of ffb setups (including Logitech) use an immersion chip even if they aren't as obviously labeled as the old arcade ones.

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2016, 04:01:08 pm »
In regards to the resolution issue... I'm unsure exactly what you are saying, but most PCs boot at 640x480 or less and then turn to the proper resolution once you are logged into windows.  It's a safety feature incase your graphics card doesn't support svga and I'm unaware of a way to stop it.  It shouldn't hurt the monitor in any way.

68hc11

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2016, 07:20:54 pm »
Well I can't get the NFS (original 2004 game cabinet) monitor to be recognized by the GT610 and boot into 800x600 but if I hook 2 monitors up I can reset the size down to 800x600 (until I reboot).

My Steering board does show up in windows but then I realize I may have a different Immersion than everyone else....

My Immersion board is 2 part

one PCB is marked IPCB-6040 Rev. 5.0 (appears to be the motor driver board)
USB PCB is marked IPCB-6052 Rev 6

I can post photos if it helps?

I couldn't get the Immersion drivers found on this website to be recognized.  Are there other drivers?

The Nytric board also shows up in win7 but I don't know how to link to it? (drivers?)

This is a two part board & extra cable connector setup for a PC that plugs into a USB port.

Thanks for all the help....so close yet so far to go yet.

mowerman

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2016, 07:39:57 pm »
What resolution is it switching to instead?

68hc11

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2016, 07:58:57 pm »
Okay so if I use the "single board" Immersion drivers it works (despite having 2 boards?).  So I have a FFB steering wheel that works!

Now how do you map other inputs into Supermodel via the Nytric USB input?

I'm not sure what resolution the Win7 PC is dropping back to, but it doesn't keep the monitor alive.  If I plug in a second LCD it will switch to the native res of that monitor.

Thanks,
mowerman

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 08:27:52 pm »
Once two are connected, going into the settings and changing the individual resolutions of each monitor, then disabling the one you aren't using might fix it. 

If it insists on having a second monitor you could make a dummy vga plug.  I think it's just a few resistors connected to the right pins. 

68hc11

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2016, 08:43:37 pm »
Well Nytric is still in business http://www.nytric.com/clients-global-vr/

But I don't see any info on how to port the USB inputs into Supermodel or anything else for that matter.  (Apparently it is set up as analog & switch inputs by looking at the cabinet wiring).

So if that is too much of an up hill battle has anyone modded the Immersion to have a gas pedal and push button inputs that can be read by supermodel or MAME?

Thanks,
mowerman

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2016, 06:36:53 am »
Connecting pc's to arcade monitors can be tricky.

There are basically 3 different states.

First, there is the bios starting up. Older pc's indeed used a 640x480 during that state.
More modern pc's however might figure out the native resolution of the connected primary screen and use that.

A pc vga monitor has a small iic eeprom chip that contains data about the supported resolutions.
Arcade monitors don't have these as they don't assume that other systems will be connected to the monitor.
That's also the reason why most adjustments are just done with potmeters. Pc monitors check the video resolution and
digitally adjust things like image position and width to previous memorised setup.

In a second state on the pc, you have the os starting up. In linux, you have clearly separated bootloader. In windows, you will see a splash screen. Depending upon the version of windows, it will or will not show you some animation during that phase.

In a third state, the dedicated video driver for the video card is loaded and started. It should now jump to the resolution that was selected in the operating system. If modern windows see a PnP monitor (that is sending it's working resolutions using edid), it will only allow the selection of the resolutions that the monitor support, excluding those that the videocard can't handle. If I remember well, you can override this behavour in windows.

There isn't much you can do about the resolution of state one (the bios). I remember seeing small pcb's with the eeprom that could be placed between an arcade monitor and a pc so that the pc can query the monitor.

State 2 might be adjustable. Google is your friend to figure this out. You can customise the splash screen as well. It's not an easy proces. Embedded Setups can be a source of information, as they run into the same problems.

State 3 should be easiest to adjust, but you can again run into problems if the pc can't query the monitor it's supported resolutions.

A tft monitor can be helpfull diagnosing resolutions as most have a setting to temporary show the new resolution on screen when it changes.

Some modern tft monitors don't support 640x480 anymore and it's a troublesome resolution to use, as all system windows don't fit anymore on the screen. Windows xp assumed you wouldn't use anything smaller than 800x600.

Sorry if this post is a bit off topic. Might fit better in the monitor/Video section.
Racing cabinets often have arcade monitors with a maximum 640x480 resolution, so it might be helpfull here as well.
 

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2016, 09:11:15 am »
Okay so if I use the "single board" Immersion drivers it works (despite having 2 boards?).  So I have a FFB steering wheel that works!
Awesome!

Now how do you map other inputs into Supermodel via the Nytric USB input?

No idea.  :-\

Forget mapping in supermodel for the moment.
Does the Nytric device show up in windows game controllers, or just the device list?

68hc11

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2016, 09:57:21 am »
Nytric USB shows up as a USB IO Board with 2 device functions

HID compliant device
USB Input device

Is there anything else I can provide?

mowerman

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Re: Need For Speed Cabinet, Dead PC, now what?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2016, 10:53:40 am »
After doing some research, I've come to the conclusion that:
1. No drivers are publicly available
2. The data being sent from the card isn't standardized enough for someone to easily make drivers for it.

So you're probably not going to find a plug and play solution for that board.

You'll probably end up having to cut the wiring harness and transfer all those controls over to the immersion board or a U-HID.
Personally I'd try to get all the controls wired to the immersion board.
Setting up games and emulators is a lot easier when you only have one controller showing in windows.

  
 

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