MIDI sound modules and retro gaming

[shponglefan]

Anyone else here use MIDI sound modules for playing older games?  I picked up a Roland MT-32, SoundCanvas SC-55 and SC-88 a little while back.  Playing older games it's remarkable how much more modern they feel with upgraded music.  Old Sierra games in particular sound incredible.  And playing Doom with the SC-55 makes its music sound the way it was meant to be.

I've thought about picking up a Yamaha MU80 and maybe an MU2000.  Although it looks like you can only find those on Ebay from Japan.  Anyone have experience with those?

Couple examples of the awesomeness of MIDI modules:

[shponglefan]

I'm the only one here interested in MIDI modules?  I'm a bit surprised given the retro enthusiasts on this site.

Oh well, here's some more MIDI module music just because. 

[Justin Z]

I had an MT-32 back in the States on my HTPC.  Before that, when I had a dedicated old PC running DOS/Win 98, I had an LAPC-I card in it.  Full size ISA card, barely fit in the tower case!

Ultima VI sounds amazing with the Roland hardware.  Betrayal at Krondor has excellent music as well, and there's a patch made by hobbyists out there somewhere that'll still play the digitized Sound Blaster effects (which you normally can't do).

[Howard_Casto]

If you want an honest reply, I just never saw the point.  When they were relevant they were ridiculously expensive and now that they are more reasonable you can use software-based samples that often sound comparable to the hardware units.  I won't deny that they sound better, I just can't remember the last time I wanted to fire up Ghouls and Ghosts....on the pc. 

[shponglefan]

If you want an honest reply, I just never saw the point.  When they were relevant they were ridiculously expensive and now that they are more reasonable you can use software-based samples that often sound comparable to the hardware units.  I won't deny that they sound better, I just can't remember the last time I wanted to fire up Ghouls and Ghosts....on the pc.

It comes down to authenticity.  The same way some people prefer to use real arcade monitors for authentic visuals, a real sound module will recreate the authentic music of many older games.

Personally, I grew up playing mostly 80's and 90's era PC games and I love to go back and replay them even to this day.  A lot of them had soundtracks composed on things like the MT-32 or Roland SoundCanvas modules.  So to get the best music for those games means using a real sound module.  And while there are soundfonts and emulations that try to recreate them, I find they don't generally sound the same; not necessarily bad, but just different.

Plus there's something intrinsically appealing about using real hardware.  Just firing up Space Quest III and seeing "insert buckazoid" on the MT-32 brings a smile to my face.

[Howard_Casto]

I get what you are saying, but that's the thing.... to most of us this isn't how they sounded originally.  We had a sound blaster at best and that's how it is remembered.  If anything using external midi modules is more inauthentic than anything.

I started pc gaming in the mid 90's and honestly I feel very little nostalgia for it.  That's probably due to constantly having to fiddle with hardware and settings to get the latest game to play. 

[pbj]

I'm confused, did the early 90s sound blaster cards not have midi chips on them??  I encountered exactly one person growing up with a Roland setup...

[shponglefan]

I'm confused, did the early 90s sound blaster cards not have midi chips on them??  I encountered exactly one person growing up with a Roland setup...

The SB16 had a MIDI chip for handling MIDI data (i.e. a MIDI interface).  But it lacked a built-in sample board to provide quality sounds for MIDI playback.  I believe a stock SB16 would have just used FM synthesis for MIDI playback.  But they could support add-in wavetable daughterboards which would include proper sampled instruments for higher quality MIDI based playback.

Later cards like the AWE32, AWE64, etc, started including wavetables as standard.  Not to mention cards from other manufacturers (I had a Diamond Monster Sound MX200 at the time).

[shponglefan]

I get what you are saying, but that's the thing.... to most of us this isn't how they sounded originally.  We had a sound blaster at best and that's how it is remembered.  If anything using external midi modules is more inauthentic than anything.

Hmmm, yes and no.  It's true that growing up we didn't have fancy Roland hardware for playback.  Consequently, we used to think that "MIDI music" sucked.  But that's because we were listening to bastardized FM synth renditions of MIDI files which sounded terrible.  We didn't even know what MIDI was.  As a result, we generally avoided any sort of General MIDI music options.

However the music itself was still composed on a lot of these devices.  So something like Doom which was composed using an SC-55 sounds best on an SC-55 (imho).  It's what the music was written for and mixed on.  All of the notes and tracks are fully intact; same as they were back then.  It's just the instrumentation itself which changes.  And in some cases there were even CD audio renditions which were directly recorded from those original sound modules.

I started pc gaming in the mid 90's and honestly I feel very little nostalgia for it.  That's probably due to constantly having to fiddle with hardware and settings to get the latest game to play.

I buy all my old PC games from GOG which includes DOSBox pre-configurations.  Other than setting up MIDI playback, I've generally had to do very little tweaking.

[pbj]

So what's the cheapest way to do this?  Surely there's a better option than old stock shipped from Japan?

[shponglefan]

So what's the cheapest way to do this?  Surely there's a better option than old stock shipped from Japan?

The absolute cheapest way would be emulation.  There's a version of DOSBox with MUNT (MT-32 emulation) that sounds very close to the original hardware.  There are also various Roland SoundCanvas soundfonts available, although those can be hit or miss.

For hardware, the Roland stuff is generally available in North America.  I picked up my MT-32 and Roland Sound Canvas modules at a local used music shop.  MT-32 was about 50 bucks and the two Sound Canvas modules close to $200 combined.  I find local is generally cheaper than Ebay.

The Yamaha stuff only seems to be available in Japan.  I'm not sure if the MU modules were ever released on this side of the pond, which might explain why they're hard to come by here.

And if you do go hardware, you'll also need a MIDI->USB interface.  I just use a cheap one I got for maybe 30 bucks.

[ark_ader]

Back in the day I used my Yamaha keyboard, hooked up to my SB Pro to play Xwing and Tiefighter.  Sounded awesome.

[nordemoniac]

I remember back in the days, there was software from Yamaha called S-YXG50 which was a MIDI synth. It DEFINITELY made games much better. Is this something that could be used?

I especially remember it from Final Fantasy VII, listen from f.ex. 09:28 :
http://youtu.be/7EAlFvLFtt8?t=9m28s

[shponglefan]

I remember back in the days, there was software from Yamaha called S-YXG50 which was a MIDI synth. It DEFINITELY made games much better. Is this something that could be used

Software MIDI synthesis/samplers can be used as well.  I've experimented using EMU Proteus VX  (http://www.creative.com/emu/proteusvx/) as well as routing MIDI through my DAW and software sample libraries.

[shponglefan]

Took delivery of the Yamaha MU2000EX.  Played some Doom, Heretric and Duke 3D with it.  It sounds awesome; different that the Roland gear, but still good in its own way.

Next on my target list is the Kawai Gmega.  Which ebay keeps auto correcting to "Kawaii Omega" and I get a bunch of half naked Japanese anime dolls instead.  Either way it's all good I guess...

[elvis]

I was an AWE64 owner, and late to the hardware MIDI game.  I had friends with superior sounding GUS and Roland gear, but I was still fond of my "cheap and nasty" AWE64 at the time.  It certainly made Doom sound pretty cool.

So what's the cheapest way to do this?  Surely there's a better option than old stock shipped from Japan?

Even as someone who has enough gear to put together a retro gaming PC with genuine AWE64, I find myself using Timidity++ today instead:

http://timidity.sourceforge.net/

Easy enough to use either as a standalone player or a plugin for DOSBox, SCUMMVM, etc.   You can load different soundfonts if you like, and virtually try out different MIDI systems.

Comments above apply - real hardware is "more authentic" (nobody on these forums needs that explained to them, surely).  But playing old PC DOS games on my much more modern, but still PC laptop is good enough for me, at least, in replicating the memories of yesteryear for that particular platform. 

[shponglefan]

Welp, I have now assembled a small army of sound modules including the Roland SC-55, Roland SC-88, Roland JV-1010, Roland XV-5080, Korg NS5R, Korg Triton Rack, Kawai Gmega, Yamaha MU80, and Yamaha MU2000EX.

Here are some recordings from various game MIDI tracks using these modules:

Descent - Main Theme

Kawai Gmega (GM mode)
Korg NS5R (GM mode)
Korg Triton Rack (GM mode)
Roland JV-1010 (GM mode)
Roland SC-55
Roland SC-88
Roland XV-5080 (GM mode)
Yamaha MU80 (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (GS mode)

Megamix: Korg/Roland/Yamaha (NS5R/Triton/XV5080/MU2000EX - layered mix of all 4 tracks)

Doom II - Dead Simple

Kawai Gmega (GM mode)
Korg NS5R (GM mode)
Korg Triton Rack (GM mode)
Roland JV-1010 (GM mode)
Roland SC-55
Roland SC-88
Roland XV-5080 (GM mode)
Yamaha MU80 (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (GS mode)

Command Adventures Starship - Sahara

Kawai Gmega (GM mode)
Korg NS5R (GM mode)
Korg Triton Rack (GM mode)
Roland JV-1010 (GM mode)
Roland SC-55
Roland SC-88
Roland XV-5080 (GM mode)
Yamaha MU80 (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (GS mode)

Tyrian - The Level

Kawai Gmega(GM mode)
Korg NS5R (GM mode)
Korg Triton Rack (GM mode)
Roland JV-1010 (GM mode)
Roland SC-55
Roland SC-88
Roland XV-5080 (GM mode)
Yamaha MU80 (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (GS mode)

Master of Magic - Intro Music

Kawai Gmega (GM mode)
Korg NS5R (GM mode)
Korg Triton Rack (GM mode)
Roland JV-1010 (GM mode)
Roland SC-55
Roland SC-88
Roland XV-5080 (GM mode)
Yamaha MU80 (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (XG mode)
Yamaha MU2000EX (GS mode)